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I ended up scrapping my personal VR, mainly because I lost my draft after writing about 15 mons, which was very demotivating. So instead, I'm just gonna share my opinions on every mon on the VR and some other thoughts.
Still the GOAT of PH. Could maybe be in S+ but I don't want to start an argument this early on. Basically Chansey but a bit worse. If you're running Imp and you're not Eviolite it doesn't really matter which blob you choose, and on HO teams with no other improofing Blissey is a better Innards. Otherwise use Chansey. (WG) Balance has definitely fallen off, but WG should still stay in S imo.
I still agree with this. Offensive sets have fallen off but are still decent for improofing on HO. Defensive sets are still pretty good imo. idk i think i've only used cursed sets on this One of the most overrated WGs for me, imo Fissure weakness (Fake Balloon is pretty much useless since many Fissure mons run Sunsteel or Moongeist) and mediocre physical bulk is crippling enough for it to drop a subrank or two. idk idk i've barely used it but good phyical wall ig Offensive sets are super fake but defensive sets are good, mainly because Moongeisters often drop Aura Sphere/Secret Sword for coverage for MAud/Melo/Muk/maybe some other stuff I missed Idk why but this feels like an absolute godsend on ladder, but not in high level play so it can probably stay where it is. idk i haven't used non-meme sets since before most people agreed it fell off Imo it hasn't really got any worse, but it kinda fell off because of how good other sets are. Mostly worse Melo, idk where I would rank it though. Arceus but trades special bulk for being able to pass Wishes, slightly slower pivoting (still not that slow) and a stat that barely matters. Wishpassing is the only reason I would keep this ranked. idrk i think i only used it on that same team with the meme hoopa Overrated, other abilites are better. idk it's decent ig but i think i only used it on that no guard melo team ^ (except I haven't used it on a team with funni defensive mon and it can run offensive sets) i think i only used it on that fullpass team but with delibird over monke because christmas so idrk but it's decent ig When has anyone used this ever? Still can probably stay ranked though. idk i think i've never used this ^ I used to think offensive sets were fake but I don't think that any more, and defensive sets are underrated. Can probably move up a subrank or two. Arceus but frailer and Slaking but can't Wishpass. Shouldn't be ranked imo. idk I've used this like once and it's not great but still has a niche. idk psychic sweeper idk about #4 Has anyone ever used this outside of Cats and Rabbits? Idk why this is still ranked. idk but it's weak to sheer cold so shouldn't be higher Why is this ranked I'm gonna get cancelled for talking about this beats some mmx sets ig? fissure weakness sucks for a defensive wg though View attachment 733150 Aggron with different typing ig? Idrk why this is ranked
I don't really have many opinions on this, still the best offensive mon though. I don't really have many opinions on this, still the best defensive mon though. Found this a bit fraudulent for quite a while as it hates Knock Off and walls basically zero special attackers, can probably drop a subrank or two. Thank you, Akira, for discovering a set my whole RMT completely loses to. Anyway, it's very good, versatile and probably the best special attacker. Fell off but idk whether I would drop it or not. 2nd best Huge Power, possibly the best No Guard, and great HO support. This is not biased. Great Huge Power, Harvest sets destroy unprepared teams, and is the mascot of the best PHPL team (maybe biased). probably drop it a subrank idk There are three types of people in this world: those who think it should be ranked close to Steelix, those who think it should be ranked much lower, and those who don't know. I am the third type. Haven't seen this very much in a while, it can probably drop. The bunny has been receiving the same hate Deo used to, and I have thought it's around B+ for a while, but it's still the best standard No Guard, and maybe some other sets could work. I also can't really talk about it badly since I am in the bunny cult. Does this really have a main set? (ok maybe protean.) Anyway, it's very versatile and can probably get away with running random stuff nobody has used before. Mostly worse Slaking but still has a niche, can probably stay where it is on the VR. idk Kinda fraudulent. Solganium Z is the only reason to run it over Kartana (unless you're running a non-Huge Power set), and you'd probably rather run Solgaleo for better bulk and outspeeding Modest Scarf MGar at +2. Some other sets are still usable though. idk i've barely used it but good phyical wall ig Kartana but trades power, speed and Grass for bulk, not being weak to Fighting, having STAB Photon (which barely matters tbh) and being able to run Solganium Z. Pretty good. That one Prankster set beats my RMT but I've barely seen or used it, and idk what else it really does. Can probably raise a subrank imo, Psypam is MU fishy but it's still pretty good on non-Psyspam HO. idk i haven't used this for ages Innards is trash but Harvest is pretty good, idk if it should stay in B+ though. I'm not gonna talk about Innards because i haven't used it much ~~and Ransei will cancel me~~ but it's decent at running other sets that bluff Innards. Pretty much NDM but trades Solganium Z for outspeeding Scarf MGar at +2. Can probably drop a subrank or two. STag has fallen off a bit but Mold and Triage are ok-ish so it can probably stay where it is.
Such a fraud. Its 26% winrate in PHPL is a bit like Solgaleo in HPL: people using terrible sets. Offensive sets are either worse MGyara/Ashgren (which still aren't great), or deal zero damage and are just bad. Some defensive and Magic Guard support sets are decent though, so it can still stay above C rank.
Best Psyspam lead but Psyspam is MU fishy and has fallen off, and there's basically no reason to run it over MMY/Deo-A if you're not Psysurge, so it can probably stay where it is. The fact it has to run Band to OHKO MMX is a bit problematic, but at least your opponent can't use Innards to KO it if you click your STAB. No Guard only really works as a HO lead and is otherwise bad, but other sets like Comatose and Mold Breaker are good enough for it to stay where it is imo. Basically MMX but worse in every way, except it gets STAB FImp which is great for revenge killing with Huge Power, and STag is probably usable. Sadly the iconic PBond Heracross sucks. Basically a slightly stronger Lunala if you don't want to run or bluff Innards, but it has the same problems as NDM. Idk where I would rank this. Basically a worse MMX that can run Ultranecrozium Z. STag and Harvest are probably usable though. I think only Ransei and Beast Mode Pikachu has really used this (I did once but it wasn't the best team, and I didn't use it very much), so idrk how good this is. MHera but trades power and bulk for lots of speed (and the ability to run mixed sets ig). Can probably rise. I haven't seen this for so long, and I don't really know how good it is since it only really works on stall, which I never use. Basically HarvSlak but trades power and being able to safely KO some Innards mons for special bulk and Type: Null but fast and can run a different item. Normalise exists too. I have barely seen or used this though. Imo it's best on HO/Offense as a reliable No Guard answer/improof, but it's pretty bad if your opponent doesn't have a standard No Guard or Imp. Slower and weaker MMY with Fairy STAB ig? I haven't seen this very much, but it's still probably decent. Another fraud, it barely does its job a lot of the time and its typing is bad for an Innards. There aren't many cases where you would rather run this over a blob. i'm getting tired even though it's 11am so i'm gonna start saying idk for ones idk about again what does this guy do Probably better than MBane because it can hit hard without having to run Band, and while Shadow Sneak doesn't OHKO MMX, Fake Out can solve this issue. I used to praise No Guard Lizard, and STag sets exist, but sadly both seem to have been overhyped. idk idk idk idk mold is really funny but other than that, idk idk
Other thoughts: These 3 were used quite a bit in PHPL and other people have explained why they should be ranked. I will not explain because I'm getting tired. I think this can probably be ranked, it's kinda like Deo-S but it has decent bulk and defensive typing, and STAB Zap Cannon with decentish SpA for No Guard. i think this is my 4th time making a forum post saying it's nothing more than a noobtrap and will never be viable in any way and should be blacklisted even though it "tEcHnIcAlLy HaS a TiNy NiChE"
On Yveltal I don’t really agree with tbh
You say people use bad sets, but it that’s really on them not the Mon
Just because it has a low win rate in PHPL doesn’t mean it’s bad, and it has 3 main sets which are really good-Huge Power, Magic Bounce, and Magic Guard.
For Huge Power, just go back to the AV Cosmoem post, they did a really good job at explaining it.
Yveltal also is a really good bouncer with STAB Knock and has great bulk. It runs the standard moves like Spectral, Twineedle, Anchor Shot too and is just a good Bouncer.
Yveltal as a Magic Guard Mon is also really good. Magic Guard is really good for Yveltal negating its weakness from rocks. It also lets Yveltal MG Pursuit some innards mons, and it can even run Mind Blown to get cheeky KOs on mons like Ferro and Scizor.
All in all, Yveltal deserves more credit than you’re giving, and personally I think it’s A or B tier material.
I ended up scrapping my personal VR, mainly because I lost my draft after writing about 15 mons, which was very demotivating. So instead, I'm just gonna share my opinions on every mon on the VR and some other thoughts.
Still the GOAT of PH. Could maybe be in S+ but I don't want to start an argument this early on. Basically Chansey but a bit worse. If you're running Imp and you're not Eviolite it doesn't really matter which blob you choose, and on HO teams with no other improofing Blissey is a better Innards. Otherwise use Chansey.
blissey isn't really that much worse then chansey they should be in the same rank imo. a blob is mandatory on most teams and both imp and innards are obviously very warping so i just think they're S+. haven't really seen an argument to have them in S either.
One of the most overrated WGs for me, imo Fissure weakness (Fake Balloon is pretty much useless since many Fissure mons run Sunsteel or Moongeist) and mediocre physical bulk is crippling enough for it to drop a subrank or two.
fissure weakness is over exagerated tbh. if fissure didn't exist it's the best wg in the game and would be better then maud, fissure doesn't come up too often and in those mu's you just have to sack innards to the fissure mon.
not a "good" physical wall but still one if the best wgs lol. sunsteel resist, very slow pivot, best pdon answer and provides more room to play around mmx so i run it on pretty much all of my balance/stalls without a bug weak wg like melo (or if im running fc).
Arceus but trades special bulk for being able to pass Wishes, slightly slower pivoting (still not that slow) and a stat that barely matters. Wishpassing is the only reason I would keep this ranked.
it's not unless ur on ladder bc everything techs for it. it's hard to say there's a "best defensive mon" because physically there's no true mmx wall and a lot of the physical attackers share vastly different and specific answers, but specially the best defensive mon would be yveltal.
it can drop but not for these reasons. nowadays it's hardly a good mmx wall bc mgeist or fire (i say fire and not ground bc fire gets searing shot and v create) are really good on mmx and most mmx want them imo, outside of mmx it doesn't wall that many karts nor does it wall pdon and it also isn't very splashable.
im gonna be real if it's pbond set didn't exist it would be A rank (IMO). geist sweepers are just a coverage fish between zygod, muk and all the normal wgs and on 2 offensive mon balances special attackers are fake but it's pbond set is a very good anti offense/spam tool so it's probably still A+.
why are people dropping it and why has it fell off? it is slow which is bad vs offense sure but it's huge power, mold breaker and mgaurd sets run over bulkier teams and all require very specific answers, and it's the best stag user so i still can't see how ppl think it could drop.
fc mbro is great. actual good mmx wall unlike fraudblade and with ssap/WoW/baby doll eyes you wall pretty much every single mmx except geist, and is the second best pdon answer (after prank mbro lol). prankster is also pretty good too. A rank for me.
i've never been in a situation when team building where i wanted to use its fakespeed set, BUT getting to run shell smash/geist/sunsteel/fairy with priority is pretty cracked and can probably justify A-.
Such a fraud. Its 26% winrate in PHPL is a bit like Solgaleo in HPL: people using terrible sets. Offensive sets are either worse MGyara/Ashgren (which still aren't great), or deal zero damage and are just bad. Some defensive and Magic Guard support sets are decent though, so it can still stay above C rank.
idt phpl means anything and the 26% wr can probably be blamed on the people using it. being fissure immune, resisting geist and photon whilst not being weak to common coverage is pretty insane. it's not that splashable but it's definetly the best special wall in the game using pheal, mbounce, mgaurd or anything else with goggles. if gyara is a- yvel should be too bc gyara's offensive sets are very mid and yvel is better defensively (huge power yvel is probably better then gyara's offensive sets too).
Another fraud, it barely does its job a lot of the time and its typing is bad for an Innards. There aren't many cases where you would rather run this over a blob.
Other thoughts: These 3 were used quite a bit in PHPL and other people have explained why they should be ranked. I will not explain because I'm getting tired.
i think this is my 4th time making a forum post saying it's nothing more than a noobtrap and will never be viable in any way and should be blacklisted even though it "tEcHnIcAlLy HaS a TiNy NiChE"
fissure weakness is over exagerated tbh. if fissure didn't exist it's the best wg in the game and would be better then maud, fissure doesn't come up too often and in those mu's you just have to sack innards to the fissure mon.
Ppl are running classic NGuard with Fissure instead if Sheer Cold to kill that dude, most special NGuards sweepers tend to use Fissure to (actually physical too but except for MMX they just have sunstee). Imo, good players will more often run Fissure than Sheer Cold. If you fight a NGuard user it’s either fake stall or balance/offense. In these case sacrificing your Innards could you let very weak against a HP sweeper and losing AMuk to revenge kill could make you really weak against a special attacker. Imo you overestimate AMuk.
not a "good" physical wall but still one if the best wgs lol. sunsteel resist, very slow pivot, best pdon answer and provides more room to play around mmx so i run it on pretty much all of my balance/stalls without a bug weak wg like melo (or if im running fc).
Even if it has a great bulk I don’t understand why ppl want to run it WG. Most of attacks neutral against it just get weakened by FCoat (Like FakeSpeed) and it has too many resistances/weaknesses to be a great WG user. Just make it FCoat to tank better or Prank to check most PDon sets.
why are people dropping it and why has it fell off? it is slow which is bad vs offense sure but it's huge power, mold breaker and mgaurd sets run over bulkier teams and all require very specific answers, and it's the best stag user so i still can't see how ppl think it could drop.
Yep I agree, just why would PDon be the best STag user ? Ig it’s becasue VCreate but that’s all. Imo MRay is as good if not better : it gets both offense stats 180 just like PDon but with SpA. It gets SoulBlaze to nuke Zyg (most uses Goggles) which PDon can't with Snuggle : 252+ SpA Rayquaza-Mega Clangorous Soulblaze vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete: 632-746 (99.3 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Let's Snuggle Forever vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zygarde-Complete: 402-474 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(This is +SpD zyg even if most are +Def, just to show how MRay is better for this)
Moreover MRay got better Spe which allows to outspeed DoeS with +Spe Nature.
I understand that VCreate STAB is very good but if it’s the only reason, MRay might be better.
i've never been in a situation when team building where i wanted to use its fakespeed set, BUT getting to run shell smash/geist/sunsteel/fairy with priority is pretty cracked and can probably justify A-.
I do think it’s good but if you wan’t Boomburst to deal real huge damage you can’t run shell smash/moldy moves.
I think Slak is just better with its fakespeed set. It can use HP AND EEvoboost because it has a good bulk (contrary to MDiancie which is also ×4 weak to the best offensive move).
Ppl are running classic NGuard with Fissure instead if Sheer Cold to kill that dude, most special NGuards sweepers tend to use Fissure to (actually physical too but except for MMX they just have sunstee). Imo, good players will more often run Fissure than Sheer Cold. If you fight a NGuard user it’s either fake stall or balance/offense. In these case sacrificing your Innards could you let very weak against a HP sweeper and losing AMuk to revenge kill could make you really weak against a special attacker. Imo you overestimate AMuk.
(I will be referring to muk vs maud here bc that’s our what previous arguments were about and it’s easier for me to talk about) im kind of sick of the muk argument now. I disagree that “sing gastro no guard users will usually run fissure now”, the only mon who really does that often is ng ash gren and that mon hasn’t really been used in months. most of the mons who run fissure are already mons that beat both maud and muk regardless, like ng mmy, ng mgar or ng kart so that isn’t really a point in mauds favour. a time where running muk instead of another wg means you have to sack innards to something is actually not that common because of what I just said and again I think these rare mu’s where you have to sack innards are worth the benefits muk does have over maud, but it’s honestly just opinion based at that point.
Even if it has a great bulk I don’t understand why ppl want to run it WG. Most of attacks neutral against it just get weakened by FCoat (Like FakeSpeed) and it has too many resistances/weaknesses to be a great WG user. Just make it FCoat to tank better or Prank to check most PDon sets.
I don’t think you read what I said because i basically answered your question on why you’d want to run wg mbro. Also not every team can run fc/prank on mbro due to needing 2 wgs so it’s not as simple as “oh just give it fur coat or prankster”.
Yep I agree, just why would PDon be the best STag user ? Ig it’s becasue VCreate but that’s all. Imo MRay is as good if not better : it gets both offense stats 180 just like PDon but with SpA. It gets SoulBlaze to nuke Zyg (most uses Goggles) which PDon can't with Snuggle : 252+ SpA Rayquaza-Mega Clangorous Soulblaze vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete: 632-746 (99.3 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Let's Snuggle Forever vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zygarde-Complete: 402-474 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(This is +SpD zyg even if most are +Def, just to show how MRay is better for this)
Moreover MRay got better Spe which allows to outspeed DoeS with +Spe Nature.
I understand that VCreate STAB is very good but if it’s the only reason, MRay might be better.
targeting defensive mons with stag is generally inconsistent unless you are running gimmicky item removal, and outside of ladder usage stats which I wouldn’t say is very reliable you can’t just say “most zygods run goggles” especially when there is 2 items it’s realistically should be running (shed and goggles) so the dragon stab isn’t a massive draw. stab v create is very good for offensive neutral targets even ohkoing mmy and offensive mons are obviously a lot less likely to run shed shell, and stab t arrows is nice for muk who is a defensive mon who actually can be consistently killed by stag as i’d argue it likes goggles more then zygod and balloon is also quite common (I don’t think balloon is good but u can’t ignore that other people use it). ik you didn’t bring up the flying stab but honestly I’d say pdon is better at killing mmx then mray regardless bc mray dies to shard, and removing mmx is one of the main reasons I’d run stag.
I do think it’s good but if you wan’t Boomburst to deal real huge damage you can’t run shell smash/moldy moves.
I think Slak is just better with its fakespeed set. It can use HP AND EEvoboost because it has a good bulk (contrary to MDiancie which is also ×4 weak to the best offensive move).
you don’t want to run boomburst on a sweeper set at all, you would want shell smash/e speed/sunsteel/mgeist which beats everything except bisharp, ho-ho and pogre whilst having priority. I did say slak is better with fake speed but I do think diancies sweeper set is better considering sweeper slak usually has to choose between hitting steels or mbro.
Muk has recently been mentioned as the best wg in the game, in my opinion this is false. Muk is a deeply flawed pokemon and should not be 1st in any way. I will not be speaking of muk fissure weakness mostly because I don’t think that’s its biggest problem. I think muk has way worse issues than being fissure weak. I have already spoken on muk really bad item selections but it’s worth repeating here.
Muk will always lose to several different things that other moon or special photon checks won’t simply because of how muk and its items are all essential but u can only ever have 1. Firstly you need a shed shell as the most common shadow tag pokemon run thousands arrows pretty much all the time and other stag mons also run thousand arrows quite a lot. Secondly you need safety goggles because without them almost any moon user with spore can and probably will break your muk if you choose to go without them. Thirdly you need a z crystal because trick is unbelievably common and can often force muk to choose between killing what’s in front of them or healing since muk takes a lot of chip throughout the game (we will get to this later so remember that). Fourthly you probably want air balloon to not instantly lose to firssure but even then balloon is still pretty bad fissure anti measure.
But that’s not muk biggest weakness. Muk biggest weakness is that it’s a really bad moon check. Muk as a moon check is really weak to rocks since after just 2 ticks or rock damage it starts dying to gengar +2 252 SpA Gengar-Mega Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Muk-Alola: 144-169 (34.7 - 40.8%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes. This rocks weakness means that if you switch into rocks 1 time and then have to check gengar but rocks aren’t taken care of then you will just lose half of the time. And then there’s parental bond gengar who is the most common ability on gengar which 2 hits u at +2 99.7% of the time with rocks up+2 252 SpA Parental Bond Gengar-Mega Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Muk-Alola: 179-211 (43.2 - 50.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock. There’s also crits which can help gengar break a muk without parental bond crits can be survived sometimes depending on the roll but with parental bond you don’t stand a chance so any parental bond gengar (gengars most common ability) has about 10-15% chance (it’s hard to calc the second parental bond damage but ik it’s at least 10%) to just lose your muk since most setup gengar run sash. I know some responses already like how someone is going to say to just run a second moon check to check moon better, but if your moon check needs to be paired with a second, better, moon check then your moon check is pretty bad. There’s also the response that earth power on gengar is pretty nitch which I agree with. That is why you shouldn’t run earth power to beat muk instead you should run a sleep move (spore or lovely kiss) because a sleeping muk can’t beat a setup gengar so long as it doesn't only get turn 1 wake ups. Muk will die to sleep so why would u run earth power when instead u can run sleep which is way more versatile and can beat muk, unless u run Lum berry muk (which is pretty bad since you’re not using any of the other, better items that you already really want) u will lose to lovely kiss gengar.
I wasn’t able to fit this anywhere but no guard is also a problem since it can sleep you and can force rock chip it makes you a worse gengar check even if it’s not running fissure so yea keep that in mind. Anyway muk is still A tier cus it does still work decently well as a gengar check but it’s not top 1.
I’d like to nominate as our new top 1 since it checks sunsteel and sunsteel is a steel move so hits fairy super effectively which is very cool.
Muk will always lose to several different things that other moon or special photon checks won’t simply because of how muk and its items are all essential but u can only ever have 1. Firstly you need a shed shell as the most common shadow tag pokemon run thousands arrows pretty much all the time and other stag mons also run thousand arrows quite a lot. Secondly you need safety goggles because without them almost any moon user with spore can and probably will break your muk if you choose to go without them. Thirdly you need a z crystal because trick is unbelievably common and can often force muk to choose between killing what’s in front of them or healing since muk takes a lot of chip throughout the game (we will get to this later so remember that). Fourthly you probably want air balloon to not instantly lose to firssure but even then balloon is still pretty bad fissure anti measure.
how is this that different to other mons? i will admit due to muk’s ghost resist it would like goggles more then other mons but the other wgs don’t have item selection much better as they all want darkinium z for the same reason and maud for example is weak to stag sss which is arguably more common then stag pdon t arrows, and imo balloon is terrible and you should just run innards as ur anti fissure measure.
But that’s not muk biggest weakness. Muk biggest weakness is that it’s a really bad moon check. Muk as a moon check is really weak to rocks since after just 2 ticks or rock damage it starts dying to gengar +2 252 SpA Gengar-Mega Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Muk-Alola: 144-169 (34.7 - 40.8%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes. This rocks weakness means that if you switch into rocks 1 time and then have to check gengar but rocks aren’t taken care of then you will just lose half of the time.
calling it a really bad mgeist check is a stretch, but yeah being an mgeist resist rather then an immunity can be a problem. muk has to take quite a bit of rocks chip (as in take rocks chip twice for even a chance to 2hko it)to lose to mgar considering if it’s running koff it will ohko a boosted mgar and does not want to stay in, and if ur running pursuit typically they end up losing 80 of their health first time it comes in and then they won’t come in for the rest of the match outside of forcing something out. from using muk I’ve never had a game where I lost because muk couldn’t wall an mgar.
And then there’s parental bond gengar who is the most common ability on gengar which 2 hits u at +2 99.7% of the time with rocks up+2 252 SpA Parental Bond Gengar-Mega Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Muk-Alola: 179-211 (43.2 - 50.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
pbond is the most common mgar ability but pbond mgar typically runs a choice scarf and does not really run a sweeper set so this isn’t really much of a concern. regardless muk still needs to take rocks and mgar needs it’s sash for it to break through. honestly suprised you said this since to my knowledge ur the one who came up with the scarf pbond set.
There’s also crits which can help gengar break a muk without parental bond crits can be survived sometimes depending on the roll but with parental bond you don’t stand a chance so any parental bond gengar (gengars most common ability) has about 10-15% chance (it’s hard to calc the second parental bond damage but ik it’s at least 10%) to just lose your muk since most setup gengar run sash.
im gonna be real just about everything in the game loses to a crit from something if it doesn’t hard wall them and again this pbond sweeper mgar isn’t a real set.
I know some responses already like how someone is going to say to just run a second moon check to check moon better, but if your moon check needs to be paired with a second, better, moon check then your moon check is pretty bad.
There’s also the response that earth power on gengar is pretty nitch which I agree with. That is why you shouldn’t run earth power to beat muk instead you should run a sleep move (spore or lovely kiss) because a sleeping muk can’t beat a setup gengar so long as it doesn't only get turn 1 wake ups. Muk will die to sleep so why would u run earth power when instead u can run sleep which is way more versatile and can beat muk, unless u run Lum berry muk (which is pretty bad since you’re not using any of the other, better items that you already really want) u will lose to lovely kiss gengar.
targeting defensive mons with stag is generally inconsistent unless you are running gimmicky item removal, and outside of ladder usage stats which I wouldn’t say is very reliable you can’t just say “most zygods run goggles” especially when there is 2 items it’s realistically should be running (shed and goggles) so the dragon stab isn’t a massive draw. stab v create is very good for offensive neutral targets even ohkoing mmy and offensive mons are obviously a lot less likely to run shed shell, and stab t arrows is nice for muk who is a defensive mon who actually can be consistently killed by stag as i’d argue it likes goggles more then zygod and balloon is also quite common (I don’t think balloon is good but u can’t ignore that other people use it). ik you didn’t bring up the flying stab but honestly I’d say pdon is better at killing mmx then mray regardless bc mray dies to shard, and removing mmx is one of the main reasons I’d run stag.
you don’t want to run boomburst on a sweeper set at all, you would want shell smash/e speed/sunsteel/mgeist which beats everything except bisharp, ho-ho and pogre whilst having priority. I did say slak is better with fake speed but I do think diancies sweeper set is better considering sweeper slak usually has to choose between hitting steels or mbro.
...Guess who it is. SpamtonZZZSpamton here again, here with another... SAMPLE SUBMISSION
So, after my last two tries of doing this, both ending in failure, I went back to the drawing board. My old team had a couple major issues. It got kinda rocked by Innards Out, and some WG cores also fucked with it, mainly M-Slowbro and MAud. So, I looked for a cure, a correction to this flaw. And, within the core of the light, I found it.
This lad.
So, if you have been paying attention to the chat board, you will already know most of my team. It's the STag PDon one. Anyway, I have talked to death 5 out of 6 members of this team, so I'm just gonna copy what I said before.
PRIMAL GROUDON
The STag mon that I have believed in for my entire time playing PH, STag PDon is kinda a monster. Thousand Arrows is your big dumb stab move that kills Muk-A, Solgaleo, and others. V-Create is for when the steels are too bulky for Thousand Arrows, or are neutral to it. Examples like Kartana, Celesteela, and MSteelix come to mind. Let's Snuggle Forever removes MMX, MRay, and most things weak to Fairy (Don't use it into Zygarde, it doesn't work). SSS is almost only for MAud, as it has a 50% chance to OHKO if they are a +Def nature, and a 100% chance if they are any other nature. It also always kills after any chip, like rocks or whatnot. Pretty cool.
MEGA AUDINO
The dumb WG wall. This MAud has nothing special over any other MAud. Rocks because I like to win, Defog because I don't like hazard stack, Recovery because duh, and U turn to ensure it does not die instantly to STag taunt (Goddamn it Eyeos). U turn also lets it donk Deo-A down to sash, and if my calcs are correct, it also does not kill -Def Chansey without a crit. Safety Goggles because fuck Spore. Neat, I guess.
NECROZMA DAWN WINGS
The second WG of the team, and the only Special Attacker as well. Moongeist because duh, Bug Buzz because NtotheN mentioned Melo being an issue, and I don't like Melo, Ice Beam to not be sat on by Zygarde, and Shell Smash because big number go burr. Z Crystal to nuke POgre, MSteelix, and any random Mon you want to ensure dies.
MEGA AGGRON
Ok I did not expect to be putting this Mon here, but it actually does the job well enough. From what I have seen, the meta is becoming more and more hostile to Zygarde. I refuse to lose to Extreme Evoboost Ice Shard again, so I needed to find a alternative to Zygarde. The most obvious answer is MSteelix, but it is only neutral to Ice, and the ground type does not help it that much on this team. So, Mega Aggron was the next best choice. Resists Photon and Ice Shard, as well as Sunsteel. The moveset is a standard Zygarde moveset, with Reflect over Will o Wisp because I have missed to many damn 85% and I refuse to lose to a MMX because of a Will o Miss again. I won't do it. Haze because it's prankster, Shore Up because duh, and Baton Pass to switch out without being blocked by Dark types. Now, honestly, because of Baton Pass, there is an argument for running Cotton Guard over Reflect, as it boost defense higher and is passed by Baton Pass. I have not tried to use it, but it might actually be good, NGL. Safety Goggles because Spore is cringe and lame.
REGIGIGAS
The [BIG SHOT!] Regigigas is actually better then Slaking on this team because I have a lot of physical bulk, but not much special bulk, so Gigas being better in that department is actually a advantage over Slaking. Fake out Extreme Speed to kill Deo-A, MLopunny, and anything not resistant to Steel. Spectral Thief to ensure that mons can't just try and press Shell Smash in front of it, and Let's Snuggle Forever to OHKO Zygarde. Lum to stop burns and sleep. Honestly, this mon always seems to get two kills, it is very neat and cool. Thank you Regigigas, very cool.
This thing patches up the major issues of this team: being the weakness to some WG cores, and the weakness to Innards Out. Sunsteel Strike for STAB reasons, Wood Hammer OHKOs Slowbro and Ash-Greninja, Flare Blitz kills the Steels, and Shell Smash is Shell Smash. Magic Guard + Focus Sash means that it can almost always improof itself, which is good because the only issue with this Kartana is that it kinda runs over the team if it isn't improofed. However, NDW can try and handle it for a bit, so it isn't completely doomed if it loses to a second Imposter. This thing is kinda just good.
So, the third generation of this team. I am still pursuing the same goal, of making this squad into a sample team. So, is this enough? Let's find out, I guess.
Apparently the council are thinking about updating the VR so I thought I’d propose a few reasonable VR changes. By “reasonable” I mean obvious changes that aren't controversial, and I won’t be using the ideology of “offense is way better then everything else and ladder doesn’t matter” like Aerobee’s VR (in the PH Discord if u want it).
Doublade: A+ -> A or A-
There are 2 reasons why I think Doublade should move down. Firstly, it’s Fur Coat set isn’t very splashable and the only team structures you can realistically run it on are balances teams with an offensive Wonder Guard (that’s usually how balance can fit Doublade) and stall, both of which aren’t that great at the moment. My second reason for thinking it should move down is that I just don’t thinks it’s that great of Pokémon anymore. The main reason to run it over other Sunsteel resists is because it walls MMX better then them, but nowadays it’s not even that great of an MMX wall. Doublade walls MMX with Thousand Arrows, and Thousand Arrows isn’t that good on MMX in my opinion because you miss many of the steel Wonder Guards, and the steels you do hit (Doublade and Steelix-Mega mainly) wall you with Prankster and Reflect or Fur coat. Unless the MMX is using Doublade as an improof (which is rare), MMX with Close Combat will often run another move that beats Doublade like Moongeist Beam or Knock Off, and being weak to fire as a Fur Coat is very depressing because fire gets V-Create and Searing Shot which both beat Fur Coat. All of this means it’s not actually that great of an MMX wall, and it doesn’t have much else going for it compared to other Sunsteel resists seeing as it loses to Groudon-Primal and most Kartana sets because Fur Coat sets either die to +2 Searing Sunraze Smash or Fissue from No Guard Kartana. Also worth noting Sturdy sets aren’t that good outside of improofing, and it’s Sturdy set definitely isn’t A+ or even A. As a Fur Coat I also just feel like it’s outclassed by Fur Coat Slowbro-Mega. As it’s not weak to fire, Fur Coat Slowbro-Mega can beat every MMX set except Moongeist sets (which Doublade loses to anyways) thanks to Baby Doll Eyes, Strength Sap or Will-O-Wisp. Because of all this, I believe Doublade should drop a sub rank or too, and I’d like to see it in the same rank or below Slowbro-Mega for the reason I just mentioned.
Steelix-Mega: A+ -> A
As for its Fur Coat set, same reasoning as Doublade except it’s even worse because it’s weak to fighting. As for Prankster, I feel like it’s good but not A+ level. This is a quick and also probably not that great explanation, but I feel like most of the time Zygarde-Complete is better. The 2 scenarios I would want to use Prankster Steelix-Mega are if:
1. I need it to to wall Huge Power Kartana, which most of the time I only need a wall for it like that on stall
2. Teams running 2 special wall Wonder Guards (e.g. like Audino-Mega + Meloetta on balance) that desperately need the Photon/Sunsteel resist
Outside of that I’d rather run Zygarde-Complete.
Zygarde-Complete: S -> S-
I do think moving Zygarde-Complete to A+ is a valid opinion, however I am trying to be more reasonable and S- makes more sense relative to the rest of the official VR, so I’m proposing S-. Zygarde-Complete is probably the most prepped for Pokémon in the format (other then maybe Imposter Chansey?) and any team that is a balance or more offensive then that wants atleast 2 Pokémon that can beat it. Taking that into consideration, Zygarde-Complete feels to me atleast like it does a few things in high level play. It feels like a soft check to MMX with Reflect (because you can wall it just not switch into it if it is Choice Band or running Ice Shard, and you can’t switch into Life Orb Close Combat or Life Orb Play Rough) and it sometimes gets to be a special wall. On balance it also kills momentum due to how passive it is, further amplified by the fact that you may want to run Core Enforcer instead of Thousand Waves due to Harvest Slaking. It’s also less splashable then anything else S ranked (yes I do think MMX is more splashable the Zygarde-Complete, Huge Power can be ran anywhere from HO to balance and STag can be ran on stall) seeing as you don’t really want to run it on the most dominant archetypes right now (HO and offense), and balance and stall can opt out of it. Because of all that you can definitely make the argument Zygarde-Complete is A+, however it is still obviously very warping in that so much techs for it and it also just walls the majority of ladder so I’m suggesting to drop it to S-.
Chansey: S -> S+ Blissey: S -> S+
I feel like this change is less agreed upon by good players, however I do think it’s S+ and it’s not really an unreasonable change so I’m gonna propose it anyways. I have 2 main arguments for this. First of all, most teams want one of the two and they are the most splashable Pokémon in the format. While teams without them can work, you need a very good reason not to run one and both Imposter and Innards Out provide great value for a team. Hyper Offense in particular pretty much always wants Innards Out, and hard stall needs Imposter. The rest of the archetypes still run one most of the time since they provide such great value, and Innards Out has became more incentivising for bulkier teams to run as a fail safe for many of the unwallable sets, seeing as it is impossible to account for them all. My second reason is due to how warping they are. With Imposter it’s pretty obvious considering most teams need to improof, and it’s stops people from just carelessly running down right ridiculous sets. Innards is also very warping too. It means 2 offensive Pokémon balances need to run 2 breakers so you don’t just lose something to Innards and get hard walled, and it means semistall has to run anti Innards tech so you don’t just lose your singular win con to Innards making semistall quite a bit worse. It’s also worth noting I haven’t yet seen anyone bring up a good argument to have them in S, and I can’t think of one myself.
Wonder Guard: move everything up 1 sub-rank except Audino-Mega
Pretty obvious but doing this would just mean Audino-Mega isn’t a full sub-rank above everything else. This change seems very clearly Ransei influenced, and while I’ve found that I’m not allowed to have the opinion Audino-Mega isn’t the best Wonder Guard, I still don’t think it’s that much better then everything else. Audino-Mega is better then everything else in that it is the most splashable Wonder Guard, and in that it can paired with more Wonder Guards then anything else. In game though, I honestly don’t feel like it’s that much better then anything else, if it all better then anything else. The only things that Audino-Mega actually beats are non Gengar-Mega Moongeist Beam sweepers and Hoopa Unbound, both of which have fallen off. Moongeist Beam Shell Smash sweepers have fallen for for 2 reasons. First of all, they are a coverage fish between Zygarde-Complete, Alolan Muk, Audino Mega, Meloetta, Gyarados-Mega and pure normal Wonder Guards like Arceus meaning the only time they actually will sweep is in the rare right match up. Secondly, if we’re talking about Shell Smash sets, they aren’t that good into offense/HO (MGuard Gengar-Megar with Spore is the exception but that’s even more match up fishy because it is terrible into any remotely bulky teams). What’s worse is that the best one, Gengar-Mega, usually beats Audino-Mega anyways because it runs poison most of the time. The next best one is probablys Dawn Wings who is agreed to have fallen off and probably deserves to fall in rank anyways, and anything else is just bad like Lunala. Hoopa Unbound only really fits onto certain bulky offenses, it breaks less teams then ever before and the 4x bug weakness means you just die to U-Turn whilst barely OHKOing anything and it’s very vulnerable to First Impression. Even if you can run Audino-Mega on more teams, the very little and also mid stuff it checks means in game stuff like Meloetta (who resists Photon and beats the same Moongeist Beam users Audino-Mega does and Gengar-Mega) feel better. That’s my argument for it not being the best Wonder Guard anyways, but I’m not allowed to have that opinion so instead that’s my argument on why it isn’t a full sub-rank above everything else.
Extra stuff: added to the VR/moved up
I don’t think many off these need explanations if at all. Heatran is obvious, I made a post on Dialga all though I don’t agree with some of the things I said on there now, Darmanitan-Zen is obviously because of Akira and Child of Night has already proven Ho-Oh is good. Also I think it’s worth pointing out Kyogre-Primal should move up too because it’s defensive sets are very good on offense for switching into stuff, gaining momentum and improofing. Ferrothorn is good too.
I decided to run my own statistic on the replay data from PHPL, my statistic being what I call “weighted success” (name subject to change). I’ve noticed that with winrates, as the number of uses for a mon increases, the winrate tends to approach 50%. I came up with weighted success to “solve” this problem- with weighted success, you use the same formula as winrate (wins / uses), but you square root the uses before using it to divide wins. The idea behind this method is that as the number of uses increases, how much the number of uses influences the weighted success decreases. Previous testing has shown that this method could be reliable- when I tested it against the data from ORAS Pure Hackmons in HPL, Pokemon you would expect to be doing the best, such as Giratina and Rayquaza-Mega, were now at the top.
I decided to take it a step further for USUM Pure Hackmons in PHPL- I made a VR based on the weighted success. Viability Ranking placements was based on a points system- the mons with the highest count of points went into S. Then, the Pokemon that had the next two highest point counts went into S-. From A+ and onward, only the highest remaining point groups were used when determining the tier (the exception to this was A-, which used two point groups). Points were determined by flooring the result of the weighted success times four. If two or more Pokemon share the same number of points, they would, naturally, be ranked together, but the placement within subtiers is based on the actual weighted success. For example, Diancie-Mega and Yveltal both had four points (and were placed into C+), but Diancie-Mega had a weighted success of 1.060660172 while Yveltal had a weighted success of 1.147078669, so Yveltal was ranked higher within C+ than Diancie-Mega.
To better explain what I mean by all of this, I’ll show some of the raw numbers. For S, only the highest group of points would be included. This group was Pokemon with a point count of 16, which included Chansey and Mewtwo-Mega-X. For S-, the next two highest point groups were used, which were 14 (Kartana) and 12 (Blissey). The next highest point group was used for A+, which included 11 points, which included Zygarde-Complete, Gengar-Mega, Slowbro-Mega, and Slaking. Next highest point group is used for A, so A contains the 10-pointers Greninja-Ash, Gyarados-Mega, Mewtwo-Mega-Y, and Audino-Mega. Due to the next two point groups being tiny (one had 9 points and two had 8 points), A- used two point groups, which included Pheromosa (9 points), Groudon-Primal (8 points), and Rayquaza-Mega (8 points). B+ and onward only used one point group for each subtier, so B+ gets the seven-pointers (Sableye-Mega and Lunala), B gets the six-pointers (Doublade, Hoopa-Unbound, Meloetta, Ho-Oh, Muk-Alola, and Solgaleo), B- gets the five-pointers (Arceus, Excadrill, Heatran, and Scizor-Mega), and so forth. The final rank, D, contains the Pokemon that did not receive any points.
Provided below is the actual Viability Ranking produced.
S Rank
S (16 points) Chansey Mewtwo-Mega-X
S- (14 + 12 points) Kartana Blissey
A Rank (11 points)
A+ Zygarde-Complete Gengar-Mega Slowbro-Mega Slaking
A (10 points) Greninja-Ash Gyarados-Mega Mewtwo-Mega-Y Audino-Mega
Assuming my statistic is reliable, we can get some rather interesting information about how well something is actually doing, without relying on the flawed winrate statistic.
First off, Slowbro-Mega appears to have been more successful in PHPL than Audino-Mega. They are separated by an entire subtier, with Audino-Mega being only about 89.44% as successful as Slowbro-Mega. However, keep in mind that this counts non-Wonder Guard variants of both Pokemon, so even if this statistic is reliable, without further information we cannot determine if Wonder Guard Slowbro-Mega has actually been doing better than Wonder Guard Audino-Mega. I’ll (at some point) probably look through replays and see if I can find any non-Wonder Guard sets for either, but for now I’m going to leave this observation be.
Pheromosa appears to have been rather successful in PHPL, with a rank of A- and a weighted success of 2.309401077. For comparison, it is ranked right above Groudon-Primal. As for why it is doing so well, I can speculate, but I can’t be certain. My guess is that Pheromosa can abuse how much Audino-Mega and Slowbro-Mega are relied upon, being able to freely pivot on Slowbro-Mega and being able to nail Audino-Mega with a decently strong Sunsteel Strike. It seems like Pheromosa is kind of the non-Wonder Guard USUM equivalent of ORAS’s Beedrill-Mega. In other words, it may have been doing so well because people weren’t preparing for it. I’ve also noticed over time (not just in PHPL) that Pheromosa is more commonly used by higher-skill players such as cscl and aerobee, so that may also be an influence on how well Pheromosa has appeared to have been doing.
Doublade has appeared to have fallen off, with a rank of B+, a far cry from its official Viability Ranking of A+. I think the reason why this is the case is obvious- people are preparing a lot more for it, with more Moongeist Beam users, Searing Shot on Mewtwo-Mega-X, and more. On a similar note, the most surprising rank to me is Steelix-Mega in C+ (rank on the official Viability Rankings is A+). Perhaps Steelix-Mega’s case is like that of Doublade- people are just preparing a lot more for it. It doesn’t like taking moves that also hit Doublade, such as Searing Shot on Mewtwo-Mega-X and Moongeist Beam, but I doubt that would entirely explain how far Steelix-Mega has fallen. It has a winrate of exactly 50%, but it was only used six times in the entire tournament, so perhaps this is just a quirk of how weighted success is calculated. If anyone else has any ideas, feel free to bring them up (but please don’t post a one-liner).
Closing
I think that is enough analysis for now. If anyone has any thoughts they would like to share, feel free to do so. Just please don’t send a one-liner- try to have some more thought, care, and time put into your posts.
sample submission, team by akira with a few changes by me
decretum by akira 153
team's surprisingly consistent into ladder, struggles a bit into the ladder deo-s set but if you can break its sash revenge killing with kart's easy, peaked around high 1500s on ladder, not doing an in depth rmt because i'm lazy, innards is innards, stag kart is cool (power whip could probably be replaced with smth else although that's up to you), arceus is neat, no guard mgar does some cool stuff but it could be replaced if you want, protean mmy is broken and pdon is a cool wg
I've promised it so here it is : a post about the pokemon that only I love.
EXCADRILL
Most people agree that it’s a C tier (the tier worse on the current VR) and here I won’t say it’s is exceptional and deserves A rankor whatever. Ik it’s mid but it should at the very least be B-
First of all I think was should check its typing (a good for an Innards user)
It might seems like a lot of resistances for a Innards user and yes... some are annoying. However who cares about resisting Sunsteel when you can use a Blob. I'm not telling you Exca is better than blob, if you need a generic innards user just use a blob ofc. Same for the psychic resistance : The Blob can take care of physical photons and for special... Neither Lunala nor Giratina origin is easily OHKO'd by it.
We don’t really care about other resistances except the ×4 for rocks, making exca a consistent innards.
The really interesting things are its weaknesses :
- Fire and fighting allows you to die for super effective moves against 2 top tier Kartana and Slaking. This is really cool to protect them and punish the opponent. They won’t be able to threat Kart/Slak again since yk... they're dead.
- Water is really cool because you can punish both POgre's Steam Eruption (Blobs struggle against it because of this very convenient damage calc : +2 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Steam Eruption vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 294-346 (41.1 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO) and MBro's Scald which is annoying for non-WG physical mons (it deals good damage thanks to MBro STAB and SpA and 30% chance of burn).
- Finally the ground one is decent because you die to the over represent TArrows in the metagame and punish a greedy TWaves from a MSteel.
Exca has also good stats :
HP : 110 the main used, killing Mewtwos, Primal Don/Ogre, Kart, MGar....
Atk : 135 not enough to be really threatening after a Shell Smash even with great STABs (Sunsteel and TArrows). It deals decent damage to offensive mons tho.
Def : 60 low Def, really cool if you want to keep your blob for another threat
SpA : 50 who cares ?
SpD : 65 a bit too much but it still dies to important non-Super Effective attack and most super effective ones so that’s great (252+ SpA Gengar-Mega Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 0- SpD 0 IVs Excadrill: 427-504 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO MGeist is a clean guaranteed OHKO EH ! YOUR DUMB BLOB CAN’T DO THAT, CAN IT ?!)
Spe : 88 enough to outspeed anything without boost after a Shell Smash and without +Spe Nature so it’s pretty cool.
Finally, I only talked about briefly but Exca's STABs are great. Using Sunsteel is enough to kill MAud at +2 (+2 252+ Atk Excadrill Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 452-534 (110.2 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
And TArrows is enough to kill PDon after Stealth Rocks (+2 252+ Atk Excadrill Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 374-444 (92.5 - 109.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Note : Those are only examples and other interesting calcs exist Maybe, after this, you're still not convinced and I could understand.
But the real strength of Excadrill its it’s aptitude to carry its team. The only team I used Exca in brought me to #1 of ladder and it’s not exagerated to say that Exca carried the team. I used MSci, Kartana and Slak. MSci's only weakness being Fire Exca was :fire: lol. Exca dies do fire attacks including Searing Shot which Blobs don't, it also dies to most fighting attacks (the only one to which Blob do not is Aura Sphere ig) and Ground one. Being weak to both PDon STABs and having more HPs than this litteral god makes Exca an excellent counter to PDon without sacrificing your Blob.
I have also talked about its water weakness and (even if it was not really the case in my team) MBro can easily block and HO when cored with an annoying WG. A lot of MBro will have scald to deals cheap damage (mainly effective on Slak) and have a chance to burn. Switching in with Exca can save your mon from the burn and instantly pass an annoying wall.
If I needed to make a sort of conclusion I'd say that contrary to both Blobs Exca isn’t very splashable in a team but it can be a great support when in the right team. And if you still not agree, remember when I said Heat was peak (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usum-pure-hackmons.3734057/post-10297299) and everyone told me it sacked ? Isn’t it really cool now ? Just trust me
These are sorted based on their VR positions, so keep in mind a Pokémon being higher then another one doesn't mean it's better at that specific role. Pokémon not on the VR have been put at the back of the list (Ho-Oh, Dialga, Heatran and Magneton).
here's a fun offense team that i got to #7 on ladder with
i couldve probably laddered to #1 but i kept running into fullpass (which is easy to beat but sucks to play against) and also i'm lazy
maybe i'll RMT this in the near future if i have the motivation to
not a sample submission tho i wouldnt mind wink wink nudge nudge
LIMIT BREAK
synopsis: use the power of setup to beat everything!!!! both mmy and slaking are immensely powerful if you can get them in, and the no guard mmy both works as a great lead or extra offensive pressure/mindgame. celesteela can work both as an ok wg and a cleaner-ish? main thing though is that it can lure steels in and send them to the shadow realm which is good for slaking. he has no recovery tho which is why gyarados is our main wg, improof, pursuiter, and innards is innards.
weaknessess: hazard removal is passive (which matters because we rely on innards being healthy and 2 sashes), pursuiting innards kills ur main wg (and hazard removal), reliance on innards for improofing can get ugly if you need to sack it or it gets pursuited
other options:
- another item > aguav on bliss
- shell smash > evoboost on slaking (put haze > fog on gyara and fog > pshot on bliss)
- ice beam > owing on steela (better zyg matchup in exchange for mmx matchup)
- photon > gastro on mmy (probably works but i havent tested)
- fissure/horn drill > sheer cold (???????????????)
These are sorted based on their VR positions, so keep in mind a Pokémon being higher then another one doesn't mean it's better at that specific role. Pokémon not on the VR have been put at the back of the list (Ho-Oh, Dialga, Heatran and Magneton).
These are sorted based on their VR positions, so keep in mind a Pokémon being higher then another one doesn't mean it's better at that specific role. Pokémon not on the VR have been put at the back of the list (Ho-Oh, Dialga, Heatran and Magneton).
i just put them all in special walls because most special walls are wonder guard. physical wonder guards get their own section because they are shit physical walls and generally tend to check weaker things like wg smashers and sometimes no guard kart, and also give you more room to play around stuff like mmx.
ranking them by what I think is the best leads to controversy bc my opinions make no sense and from what i've seen other formats tend to just order them by vr. if u really want tho i can do this.
ranking them by what I think is the best leads to controversy bc my opinions make no sense and from what i've seen other formats tend to just order them by vr. if u really want tho i can do this.
I have been working on this team for a while now and never really made a proper post about it here since I'm pretty lazy. Anyway, this team has been optimized a ton over time and with proper play can be used against any opponent, no matter their skill level (it is not advised for unskilled players to go into low ladder with this team though). Some things on it may seem a bit crazy (like basically not having any hazards), but I assure you the team works, I have played with it over 300 times and it has brought me great success. Cutest big bird (Ho-Oh) (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Shore Up
- Sacred Fire
- U-turn
- Spectral Thief
The star of the show is the teams primary special wall and all-around bulky mon. Its main flaw is that it dies to +2 stab cfz moves from powerful special attackers and normal special attackers due to not being able to hit them with Spectral Thief. Besides that, it walls a ton of special attackers and even some physical ones. Kartana and Mega Scizor are the obvious ones but even Mega Mewtwo X can be walled if it does not have the right set. The one thing I don't like is that it does not have enough big pp moves, which sometimes really restricts how you play, but this is quite rare.
Cutest Fairy (Audino-Mega) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Parting Shot
- Aromatherapy
- Shore Up
- Knock Off
Pretty standard Cleric Mega Audino set, not much to say.
The teams primary physical wall is Celesteela, which might seem a bit risky as it really isn't the bulkiest mon in the game but with Will O Wisp it can wall pretty well.
Cutest mass (Zygarde-Complete) (F) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
- Anchor Shot
- Shore Up Blocking hazards is really important on this team so try to do that to the best of your ability. It has rapid spin for extra pp and the hazard clearing effect and Toxic to help wittle down opponents, just be careful not to use it on other Magic Bounce mons. Anchor shot with minimal Atk is to not OHKO certain innards sets.
Cutest imposter (Blissey) (F) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Baton Pass
- Shore Up It's Imp, not much to say about it. You can change the item to whatever you like, but Shed Shell in my opinion is the best since you can't really be cheesed by trapping moves like Thousand Waves.
Cutest annoyance (Chansey) (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Trick
- Taunt
- Baton Pass
- Shore Up
I have been working on this team for a while now and never really made a proper post about it here since I'm pretty lazy. Anyway, this team has been optimized a ton over time and with proper play can be used against any opponent, no matter their skill level (it is not advised for unskilled players to go into low ladder with this team though). Some things on it may seem a bit crazy (like basically not having any hazards), but I assure you the team works, I have played with it over 300 times and it has brought me great success. Cutest big bird (Ho-Oh) (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Shore Up
- Sacred Fire
- U-turn
- Spectral Thief
The star of the show is the teams primary special wall and all-around bulky mon. Its main flaw is that it dies to +2 stab cfz moves from powerful special attackers and normal special attackers due to not being able to hit them with Spectral Thief. Besides that, it walls a ton of special attackers and even some physical ones. Kartana and Mega Scizor are the obvious ones but even Mega Mewtwo X can be walled if it does not have the right set. The one thing I don't like is that it does not have enough big pp moves, which sometimes really restricts how you play, but this is quite rare.
Cutest Fairy (Audino-Mega) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Parting Shot
- Aromatherapy
- Shore Up
- Knock Off
Pretty standard Cleric Mega Audino set, not much to say.
The teams primary physical wall is Celesteela, which might seem a bit risky as it really isn't the bulkiest mon in the game but with Will O Wisp it can wall pretty well.
Cutest mass (Zygarde-Complete) (F) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
- Anchor Shot
- Shore Up Blocking hazards is really important on this team so try to do that to the best of your ability. It has rapid spin for extra pp and the hazard clearing effect and Toxic to help wittle down opponents, just be careful not to use it on other Magic Bounce mons. Anchor shot with minimal Atk is to not OHKO certain innards sets.
Cutest imposter (Blissey) (F) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Baton Pass
- Shore Up It's Imp, not much to say about it. You can change the item to whatever you like, but Shed Shell in my opinion is the best since you can't really be cheesed by trapping moves like Thousand Waves.
Cutest annoyance (Chansey) (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Trick
- Taunt
- Baton Pass
- Shore Up
This team seems very good.
However...some flaws might threaten to consume the team. Mainly, if the opponent manages to get rid of Celesteela, and set rocks, you just kinda lose on the spot. Yes, I know that that is hard to do, as you also have MBounce Zygarde. But, if it does happen, it is a extremely crippling thing for your team. To be honest, it probably is fine, due to how hard it would be to get the game into that state. But, if the game gets into that state, then you are kinda fucked NGL. Anyway, very good team. Big stall wins again.
Also, I noticed that you got rid of Muk-A for MAud. MAud is still the best WG mon, Muk-A fans stay losing.
Oh yeah also could you move the picture of Chansey to on top of the set? It makes the end of the team look very cluttered.
(Also get rid of all the Shed Shells so that my PDon can 6-0 it plz thanks)
This team seems very good.
However...some flaws might threaten to consume the team. Mainly, if the opponent manages to get rid of Celesteela, and set rocks, you just kinda lose on the spot. Yes, I know that that is hard to do, as you also have MBounce Zygarde. But, if it does happen, it is a extremely crippling thing for your team. To be honest, it probably is fine, due to how hard it would be to get the game into that state. But, if the game gets into that state, then you are kinda fucked NGL. Anyway, very good team. Big stall wins again.
Also, I noticed that you got rid of Muk-A for MAud. MAud is still the best WG mon, Muk-A fans stay losing.
Oh yeah also could you move the picture of Chansey to on top of the set? It makes the end of the team look very cluttered.
(Also get rid of all the Shed Shells so that my PDon can 6-0 it plz thanks)
Some sets can easily set Stealth Rocks, unfortunately, like No Guard Gengar, but even so, it can be played around. Ho-Oh does not instantly die to Stealth Rocks so you can come in on passive WGs if they have any and heal or try to get Celesteela into a position where it can use Defog. I can't really go over every scenario as almost every game is pretty unique in ph but you can generally find a turn where either Zyg can use Rapid Spin, Steela can Defog or even Imp if it transforms into the right mon. This is unlikely as you have said, but it is not an instant loss if the opponent sets Stealth Rocks (for the most part at least).
Some sets can easily set Stealth Rocks, unfortunately, like No Guard Gengar, but even so, it can be played around. Ho-Oh does not instantly die to Stealth Rocks so you can come in on passive WGs if they have any and heal or try to get Celesteela into a position where it can use Defog. I can't really go over every scenario as almost every game is pretty unique in ph but you can generally find a turn where either Zyg can use Rapid Spin, Steela can Defog or even Imp if it transforms into the right mon. This is unlikely as you have said, but it is not an instant loss if the opponent sets Stealth Rocks (for the most part at least).
Also, I think that this team 6-1s it almost always unless you play perfectly every single turn: https://pokepast.es/6e7980a417d60fa2. It took surprisingly long to come up with it, the only weak point was the Ho-Oh and the Celesteela being both weak to Electric.
(I know nobody is gonna bring this, it is just funny)
Hello. This is my first time posting here. I've spent quite some time playing USUM Pure Hackmons, but teambuilding from a more unconventional perspective. I asked myself:
- Would there be a certain scenario, where you would be guaranteed to win, no matter what kind of pokemon the opponent still has left?
- If there is, would there be a reliable way to get to that scenario?
If I can answer both of these question with a yes, then I should theoretically always be able to win. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find something that can answer either of these questions with a definitive "yes". However, after a lot of strategizing and after many, many iterations, I have come reasonably close to it. Close enough, that I am currently ranked #1 on the ladder, with an elo above 1800.
How to play this team:
Much like the questions I asked myself, let's start from the desired end-result:
You want to have Slaking in the game, at x4 attack, at full HP, behind a substitute, with Focus Energy up, and a layer of stealth rocks and three layers of spikes on the opponent's side. Optional: with speed & accuracy boosts.
Why are you virtually "unbeatable" if you get this far? Because you'll be able to OHKO (almost) any pokemon that will be sent in. Just use shadow sneak on ghost-type pokemon, and extreme speed on anything else. With the Scope Lens + Focus Energy, you'll crit 100% of the time. That means even pokemon that resist your Extreme Speed, will die. If I did my calculations correctly, after the rocks + 3 layers of spikes, only mega-steelix & mega-aggron can survive an extreme speed. For that scenario, you'll have to risk going for bonemerang.
You'll out-prio your opponent's moves, which means you'll be safe from prankster moves.
If your opponent sends in a magic guard + focus sash pokemon, you'll also have bonemerang.
If your opponent sends in innards out Blissey, they'll be damaged enough from the hazards, that you'll survive.
There exist very few counters once you get to this point, so if your opponent doesn't carry some very unlikely combination of pokemon, you just win if you can get it set up. The very few counters I've encountered so far are:
- TWO innards out pokemon
- One innards out mon + King's shield / baneful bunker / rocky helmet on another mon (or the same one)
- Bulky prankster haze Mega-Steelix / Mega-Aggron
- Psychic surge on one pokemon + prankster on another pokemon
They didn't bring anything on the list above here? You win (assuming you get the setup done). If they did and you find out about it, maybe you can still play around it.
Now for the second question: How do we get into this ridiculous set up? The answer is: trap an opponent's mon, incapacitate them, and absolutely refuse to let them die. The idea is to use arena trap Arceus to trick a choice scarf to one of your opponent's mon, after which they'll be locked into one move. Obliterate their attack stat with Zygarde's Strength Sap while they'll be forced to struggle, and then you just keep them alive with heal pulse while they do virtually no damage struggling. Now you have infinite turns to use defog, set up stealth rocks, spikes, coil/dragon dance until your attack is maxed out, baton pass to Slaking, and use focus energy. Done.
Now for the actually trapping an enemy pokemon part. This is the hard part. Obviously, having four arena trap pokemon is key here. However, there's a lot the opponent can do to not get trapped. Here's a quick overview with what they can do, and possible solutions:
The opponent is carrying shed shell(s)
Use knock off
Use trick
Use magic room (disables items)
Use whirlwind to trap another mon instead
The opponent is a ghost/flying type (not trappable with arena trap)
Use soak (changes their type to pure water)
Use whirlwind to trap another mon instead
The opponent has U-turn / Parting Shot
Use protect with deoxys as they use that move. They'll stay in. Use disable next. Now they can't use it anymore to escape
The opponent is running No Guard + Sheer Cold / Fissure
Use Core Encorcer on them
Use Simple Beam on them
The opponent has magic bounce
Use Core Enforcer on them
Use Parting Shot to force them out
The opponent is holding an untrickable item
Try to force out another pokemon (maybe using whirlwind) to trap instead
Having listed those possible counters, normally speaking you'd play like this:
1) Send out Shuckle and use Core enforcer to get rid of unwanted abilities
2) Parting shot to Deoxys. Use protect and then either disable or encore to eventually lock them into a move that is not harmful
3) Switch to arceus once they're encored and trick the scarf to them. They'll now be locked into that move
4) Set up stealth rock + three layers of spikes with zygarde
5) Minimize their attack stat with zygarde's strength sap
5) Boost maximally with Steelix, set up a substitute, baton pass to Slaking
6) Use focus energy on Slaking
7) Sweep their remaining team
Hello. This is my first time posting here. I've spent quite some time playing USUM Pure Hackmons, but teambuilding from a more unconventional perspective. I asked myself:
- Would there be a certain scenario, where you would be guaranteed to win, no matter what kind of pokemon the opponent still has left?
- If there is, would there be a reliable way to get to that scenario?
If I can answer both of these question with a yes, then I should theoretically always be able to win. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find something that can answer either of these questions with a definitive "yes". However, after a lot of strategizing and after many, many iterations, I have come reasonably close to it. Close enough, that I am currently ranked #1 on the ladder, with an elo above 1800.
How to play this team:
Much like the questions I asked myself, let's start from the desired end-result:
You want to have Slaking in the game, at x4 attack, at full HP, behind a substitute, with Focus Energy up, and a layer of stealth rocks and three layers of spikes on the opponent's side. Optional: with speed & accuracy boosts.
Why are you virtually "unbeatable" if you get this far? Because you'll be able to OHKO (almost) any pokemon that will be sent in. Just use shadow sneak on ghost-type pokemon, and extreme speed on anything else. With the Scope Lens + Focus Energy, you'll crit 100% of the time. That means even pokemon that resist your Extreme Speed, will die. If I did my calculations correctly, after the rocks + 3 layers of spikes, generally only a mega-steelix might be able to survive an extreme speed. For that scenario, you'll have to risk going for bonemerang.
You'll out-prio your opponent's moves, which means you'll be safe from prankster moves.
If your opponent sends in a magic guard + focus sash pokemon, you'll also have bonemerang.
If your opponent sends in innards out Blissey, they'll be damaged enough from the hazards, that you'll survive.
There exist very few counters once you get to this point, so if your opponent doesn't carry some very unlikely combination of pokemon, you just win if you can get it set up. The very few counters I've encountered so far are:
- TWO innards out pokemon
- One innards out mon + King's shield / baneful bunker / rocky helmet on another mon (or the same one)
- Bulky prankster haze Mega-Steelix
- Psychic surge on one pokemon + prankster on another pokemon
They didn't bring anything on the list above here? You win (assuming you get the setup done). If they did and you find out about it, maybe you can still play around it.
Now for the second question: How do we get into this ridiculous set up? The answer is: trap an opponent's mon, incapacitate them, and absolutely refuse to let them die. The idea is to use arena trap Arceus trick a choice scarf to one of your opponent's mon, after which they'll be locked into one move. Obliterate their attack stat with Zygarde's Strength Sap while they'll be forced to struggle, and then you just keep them alive with heal pulse while they do virtually no damage struggling. Now you have infinite turns to use defog, set up stealth rocks, spikes, coil/dragon dance until your attack is maxed out, baton pass to Slaking, and use focus energy. Done.
Now for the actually trapping an enemy pokemon part. This is the hard part. Obviously, having four arena trap pokemon is key here. However, there's a lot the opponent can do to not get trapped. Here's a quick overview with what they can do, and possible solutions:
- The opponent is carrying shed shell(s)
-> Use knock off
-> Use trick
-> Use magic room (disables items)
-> Use whirlwind to trap another mon instead
- The opponent is a ghost/flying type (not trappable by arena trap)
-> Use soak
-> Use whirlwind to trap another mon instead
- The opponent has u-turn / parting shot:
-> Use protect with deoxys. They'll stay in. Use disable next. Now they can't use it anymore to escape
- The opponent is running no guard + sheer cold / fissue:
-> Use core enforcer on them
-> Use simple beam on them
- The opponent has magic bounce:
-> Use core enforcer on them
-> Use parting shot to force them out
- The opponent is holding an untrickable item
-> Try to force out another pokemon (maybe using whirlwind) to trap instead
Having listed those possible counters, normally speaking you'd play like this:
1) Send out Shuckle and use Core enforcer to get rid of unwanted abilities
2) Parting shot to Deoxys. Use protect and then either disable or encore to eventually lock them into a move that is not harmful
3) Switch to arceus once they're encored and trick the scarf to them. They'll now be locked into that move
4) Set up stealth rock + three layers of spikes with zygarde
5) Minimize their attack stat with zygarde's strength sap
5) Boost maximally with Steelix, set up a substitute, baton pass to Slaking
6) Use focus energy on Slaking
7) Sweep their remaining team
+6 252+ Atk Slaking Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aggron-Mega on a critical hit: 193-228 (56.1 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes
Aggron also just kinda stops you in your tracks. Also, why is Slaking Lonely? It has no Special Attacks, so Adamant has no downside.
(Also Queenly Majesty on any Flying type also completely hard walls you but whatever)
Still the GOAT of PH. Could maybe be in S+ but I don't want to start an argument this early on.
Basically Chansey but a bit worse. If you're running Imp and you're not Eviolite it doesn't really matter which blob you choose, and on HO teams with no other improofing Blissey is a better Innards. Otherwise use Chansey.
(WG) Balance has definitely fallen off, but WG should still stay in S imo.
Offensive sets have fallen off but are still decent for improofing on HO. Defensive sets are still pretty good imo.
idk i think i've only used cursed sets on this
One of the most overrated WGs for me, imo Fissure weakness (Fake Balloon is pretty much useless since many Fissure mons run Sunsteel or Moongeist) and mediocre physical bulk is crippling enough for it to drop a subrank or two.
idk
idk i've barely used it but good phyical wall ig
Offensive sets are super fake but defensive sets are good, mainly because Moongeisters often drop Aura Sphere/Secret Sword for coverage for MAud/Melo/Muk/maybe some other stuff I missed
Idk why but this feels like an absolute godsend on ladder, but not in high level play so it can probably stay where it is.
idk i haven't used non-meme sets since before most people agreed it fell off
Imo it hasn't really got any worse, but it kinda fell off because of how good other sets are.
Mostly worse Melo, idk where I would rank it though.
Arceus but trades special bulk for being able to pass Wishes, slightly slower pivoting (still not that slow) and a stat that barely matters. Wishpassing is the only reason I would keep this ranked.
idrk i think i only used it on that same team with the meme hoopa
Overrated, other abilites are better.
idk it's decent ig but i think i only used it on that no guard melo team
^ (except I haven't used it on a team with funni defensive mon and it can run offensive sets)
i think i only used it on that fullpass team but with delibird over monke because christmas so idrk but it's decent ig
When has anyone used this ever? Still can probably stay ranked though.
idk i think i've never used this
^
I used to think offensive sets were fake but I don't think that any more, and defensive sets are underrated. Can probably move up a subrank or two.
Arceus but frailer and Slaking but can't Wishpass. Shouldn't be ranked imo.
idk
I've used this like once and it's not great but still has a niche.
psychic sweeper idk about #4
Has anyone ever used this outside of Cats and Rabbits? Idk why this is still ranked.
idk but it's weak to sheer cold so shouldn't be higher
Why is this ranked
I'm gonna get cancelled for talking about this
beats some mmx sets ig? fissure weakness sucks for a defensive wg though
Aggron with different typing ig? Idrk why this is ranked
I don't really have many opinions on this, still the best offensive mon though.
I don't really have many opinions on this, still the best defensive mon though.
Found this a bit fraudulent for quite a while as it hates Knock Off and walls basically zero special attackers, can probably drop a subrank or two.
Thank you, Akira, for discovering a set my whole RMT completely loses to. Anyway, it's very good, versatile and probably the best special attacker.
The bunny has been receiving the same hate Deo used to, and I have thought it's around B+ for a while, but it's still the best standard No Guard, and maybe some other sets could work. I also can't really talk about it badly since I am in the bunny cult.
Kinda fraudulent. Solganium Z is the only reason to run it over Kartana (unless you're running a non-Huge Power set), and you'd probably rather run Solgaleo for better bulk and outspeeding Modest Scarf MGar at +2. Some other sets are still usable though.
Can probably raise a subrank imo, Psypam is MU fishy but it's still pretty good on non-Psyspam HO.
idk i haven't used this for ages
Innards is trash but Harvest is pretty good, idk if it should stay in B+ though.
I'm not gonna talk about Innards because i haven't used it much ~~and Ransei will cancel me~~ but it's decent at running other sets that bluff Innards.
Pretty much NDM but trades Solganium Z for outspeeding Scarf MGar at +2. Can probably drop a subrank or two.
STag has fallen off a bit but Mold and Triage are ok-ish so it can probably stay where it is.
Best Psyspam lead but Psyspam is MU fishy and has fallen off, and there's basically no reason to run it over MMY/Deo-A if you're not Psysurge, so it can probably stay where it is.
The fact it has to run Band to OHKO MMX is a bit problematic, but at least your opponent can't use Innards to KO it if you click your STAB.
No Guard only really works as a HO lead and is otherwise bad, but other sets like Comatose and Mold Breaker are good enough for it to stay where it is imo.
Basically MMX but worse in every way, except it gets STAB FImp which is great for revenge killing with Huge Power, and STag is probably usable. Sadly the iconic PBond Heracross sucks.
Basically a worse MMX that can run Ultranecrozium Z. STag and Harvest are probably usable though.
I think only Ransei
MHera but trades power and bulk for lots of speed (and the ability to run mixed sets ig). Can probably rise.
Imo it's best on HO/Offense as a reliable No Guard answer/improof, but it's pretty bad if your opponent doesn't have a standard No Guard or Imp.
Another fraud, it barely does its job a lot of the time and its typing is bad for an Innards. There aren't many cases where you would rather run this over a blob.
i'm getting tired even though it's 11am so i'm gonna start saying idk for ones idk about again
what does this guy do
Probably better than MBane because it can hit hard without having to run Band, and while Shadow Sneak doesn't OHKO MMX, Fake Out can solve this issue.
I used to praise No Guard Lizard, and STag sets exist, but sadly both seem to have been overhyped.
idk
idk
idk
idk
These 3 were used quite a bit in PHPL and other people have explained why they should be ranked. I will not explain because I'm getting tired.
I think this can probably be ranked, it's kinda like Deo-S but it has decent bulk and defensive typing, and STAB Zap Cannon with decentish SpA for No Guard.
i think this is my 4th time making a forum post saying it's nothing more than a noobtrap and will never be viable in any way and should be blacklisted even though it "tEcHnIcAlLy HaS a TiNy NiChE"
![:sv/[KARTANA]:](/dex/media/sprites/xy/kartana.gif.m.1754256314)
Extra stuff: added to the VR/moved up
Sableye-Mega
Marshadow
Landorus-Therian
Aerodactyl-Mega
Escavalier
Stakataka
Beedrill-Mega
Xerneas
Froslass
Incineroar
Tyranitar-Mega
