UU Simple Questions Thread

kokoloko

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If you have a question regarding the tier or any of the processes involved in creating it, such as the tiering system and why certain Pokemon are banned, ask them here and you're sure to get an answer from one of our friendly staff or another helpful user. Do not make a separate thread for them.
 
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Diatom

An enigma
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
What would people recommend as a replacement for Megacham on my team? I mostly need a good lategame fighting type, that preferably has some revenge-killing capabilities as well.
 
Hawlucha? Awesome, strong fighting-type, works great when powerful priority is removed [there isn't that much of it], Unburden doubles its speed so it reaches ungodly levels when activated, so it can use Adamant - no Flying Gem, but Hawlucha's still great, and also looks awesome to boot.
 

Arkian

What's wrong with being confident?
is a Contributor Alumnus
diatom said:
What would people recommend as a replacement for Megacham on my team? I mostly need a good lategame fighting type, that preferably has some revenge-killing capabilities as well.
Meinshao is probably the closest you can get to replacing Megacham since it commonly runs all-out attacking sets and is used primarily as a wallbreaker. But honestly, there is no replacing the utter power that Megacham brought into UU :[
 

Arkian

What's wrong with being confident?
is a Contributor Alumnus
Why are the prominent users of Shadow Tag banned? I don't feel they are too strong for the meta right now.
Since I'm not on the UU council, my question probably will not be 100% correct, but here goes.

In my opinion, both Gothitelle and Wobbuffet were broken under the support characteristic. Gothitelle could revenge kill quite a lot of Pokemon easily with a Choice Scarf set, and the trainer would have no option but to watch their Pokemon die since they couldn't switch out. What makes this worse is the fact that Gothitelle also got Trick, which let it easily cripple a wall such as Chansey for the entirety of the game. Moreover, Gothitelle could even set up with a SubCM set (happened to me once) on a weak wall like Vaporeon (that had Toxic > Roar, very specific example ._.).

Wobbuffet on the other hand, could create many setup opportunities thanks to Encore, or could easily get rid of a Pokemon that only used attacking moves like Megacham due to Counter and/or Mirror Coat. This made it so it was too easy for a Pokemon to set up and sweep or that it was too easy to remove a huge threat from the game with little to no risk.

Again, I'm not on the UU council, so I can't say that this was the exact reasoning the council members used to ban Gothitelle and Wobbuffet, but I'm pretty sure it was somewhere around my version (hopefully :P).
 
Since I'm not on the UU council, my question probably will not be 100% correct, but here goes.

In my opinion, both Gothitelle and Wobbuffet were broken under the support characteristic. Gothitelle could revenge kill quite a lot of Pokemon easily with a Choice Scarf set, and the trainer would have no option but to watch their Pokemon die since they couldn't switch out. What makes this worse is the fact that Gothitelle also got Trick, which let it easily cripple a wall such as Chansey for the entirety of the game. Moreover, Gothitelle could even set up with a SubCM set (happened to me once) on a weak wall like Vaporeon (that had Toxic > Roar, very specific example ._.).

Wobbuffet on the other hand, could create many setup opportunities thanks to Encore, or could easily get rid of a Pokemon that only used attacking moves like Megacham due to Counter and/or Mirror Coat. This made it so it was too easy for a Pokemon to set up and sweep or that it was too easy to remove a huge threat from the game with little to no risk.

Again, I'm not on the UU council, so I can't say that this was the exact reasoning the council members used to ban Gothitelle and Wobbuffet, but I'm pretty sure it was somewhere around my version (hopefully :P).
I understand all this, but have just one observation. All your examples were viable OU pokemon, and the parts without examples could easily be done on reqular OU pokemon. Yet Wobba/Goth are not banned in OU. There is plenty of power in UU right now, just look at Victini/Hydreigon etc. Hydreigon is a perfect counter too, as he is immune to magic coat.
 

Arkian

What's wrong with being confident?
is a Contributor Alumnus
I understand all this, but have just one observation. All your examples were viable OU pokemon, and the parts without examples could easily be done on reqular OU pokemon. Yet Wobba/Goth are not banned in OU. There is plenty of power in UU right now, just look at Victini/Hydreigon etc. Hydreigon is a perfect counter too, as he is immune to magic coat.
Here's the thing; you were unable to switch Hydreigon in since the opposing Pokemon was trapped! As for the OU example thing, I only used one example which was Vaporeon, a very uncommon Pokemon in BW OU. Also, XY UU is very lenient with its bans, so this kind of thing is likely to happen in its beginning phase. Don't worry, since every Pokemon that is currently banned will get their own suspect test and will have a chance to come back to UU :)
 
Since I'm not on the UU council, my question probably will not be 100% correct, but here goes.

In my opinion, both Gothitelle and Wobbuffet were broken under the suppor characteristic. Gothitelle could revenge kill quite a lot of Pokemon easily with a Choice Scarf set, and the trainer would have no option but to watch their Pokemon die since they couldn't switch out. What makes this worse is the fact that Gothitelle also got Trick, which let it easily cripple a wall such as Chansey for the entirety of the game. Moreover, Gothitelle could even set up with a SubCM set (happened to me once) on a weak wall like Vaporeon (that had Toxic > Roar, very specific example ._.).

Wobbuffet on the other hand, could create many setup opportunities thanks to Encore, or could easily get rid of a Pokemon that only used attacking moves like Megacham due to Counter and/or Mirror Coat. This made it so it was too easy for a Pokemon to set up and sweep or that it was too easy to remove a huge threat from the game with little to no risk.

Again, I'm not on the UU council, so I can't say that this was the exact reasoning the council members used to ban Gothitelle and Wobbuffet, but I'm pretty sure it was somewhere around my version (hopefully :P).
Tiering decisions are no longer made based on DPP era characteristics.
 
Why are the prominent users of Shadow Tag banned? I don't feel they are too strong for the meta right now.
What I can say is that they've been extremely lenient with their bans, and intentionally so. Think of the current "BL" list as a list of Pokemon that will be suspect tested. A lot of them will probably end up back in UU in a few months. Things that are just debatable enough for a more thorough suspect test are being put on the BL list for now.

Also, it's not like they've done a blanket ban on Shadow Tag, since weaker users like Wynaut are still allowed for example. Wobbuffet and Gothitelle are significantly stronger, but some Pokemon have such bad stats that even with an amazing ability they're only semi-viable.

Talking about blanket bans, when the Drought Pokemon get tested, what will happen if Vulpix is found not to be broken, but Ninetales is?
 
Talking about blanket bans, when the Drought Pokemon get tested, what will happen if Vulpix is found not to be broken, but Ninetales is?
It's not the Pokemon with the ability that's broken, but rather the ability itself that's broken. UU is full of lower Chlorophyll users and a plethora of Fire-types, and allowing Drought in any way, shape, or form would severely centralize the metagame. I currently don't know if we're planning on just keeping Drought itself banned, or if Vulpix and/or Ninetales without Drought would be allowed in UU.
 
It's not the Pokemon with the ability that's broken, but rather the ability itself that's broken. UU is full of lower Chlorophyll users and a plethora of Fire-types, and allowing Drought in any way, shape, or form would severely centralize the metagame. I currently don't know if we're planning on just keeping Drought itself banned, or if Vulpix and/or Ninetales without Drought would be allowed in UU.
They haven't actually decided that it's broken yet. Pokemon on the BL list are things that are going to get suspect tests (i.e. things that might be broken).

We've had tiers before where Abomasnow and Hippowdon rose out/dropped in due to usage, and there was actually a significant difference between using them and using their really weak counterparts (Snover and Hippopotas) in those metagames. Drought isn't the be-all and end-all, other factors come into play too (same with Shadow Tag).

Yes, Drought, even on a Pokemon as weak as Vulpix might still be broken. If so, by all means ban the ability. However, Vulpix is such a weak Pokemon, and with Drought not being infinite sun anymore, it might even turn out to be worse than using something like random Sunny Day Latias for all we know (even if it costs a turn and a moveslot). Of course, we don't know for sure at the moment how it plays, because nobody was using Vulpix when Ninetales was in the tier.

I'm not opposed to a Drought ban, I just think we should check that all Drought users are broken first.
 
If you're running Adamant (which is ultimately better imo, but you might feel the need to have the ability to rk non-Scarf pony and others), then there's no reason not to run 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe. That gives you 330, which outspeeds everything up to +Spe base 100s and Rash Raikou (and Modest MDoom if that's a thing). You can run more HP if you want to I guess, but that's as high as you should go in Speed otherwise. If you were to run Jolly for some reason you could run that spread too, or you could simply max Speed for mirror matchups, not that they're likely to happen.
 
Personally, I like running Jolly 232 Spe for the ability to outrun max speed base 115s (SubCM Raikou, Azelf) in order to give it more early game utility as a backup revenge killer. High Jump Kick easily deals ~70% to Raikou which isn't that hard to weaken. Alternatively, since the 115s are not that common, Jolly 192 Spe can be used to outrun Latias, though it must use Sky Attack (~70%) unless Latias is heavily weakened. For Jolly, I won't recommand under 176 evs since Keldeo is pretty important and Hawlucha easily revenges it (forcing to use up Power herb sucks though). Another advantage of Jolly is that it functions better as a fast attacker in case it fails to sweep after unburden activated (this shouldn't happen though). Basically, Jolly vs Adamant is early game utility vs late game power. While Hawlucha is primarily a late game sweeper, Jolly's niche as a revenge killer is great and Sky Attacking on more things are nice. These are up to personal preference though.
 

kokoloko

what matters is our plan!
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How am I supposed to deal with Jirachi or Keldeo in the current metagame without resorting to legendaries?
idealy you wouldn't needlessly handicap yourself like this, but roserade/amoonguss/slowbro/jellicent deal with keldeo easily and hippowdon/metagross/swampert deal with jirachi pretty well.
 
Which do you think it's the biggest threat in UU, both offensively and defensively?
That's an interesting question. Defensively I would have to say Mega Aggron for its ability to beat pretty much any attacker one on one (except like banded Darm lol), though Chansey is also a strong contender.
Offensively it becomes far more debatable because there are a lot of threats in UU... In the present meta I think I'd go with Chandelure as it's just extremely dangerous and has taken advantage of metagame trends like Snorlax going off the charts. Chandy can reliably beat any Chansey set as long as it runs either Taunt or Sub, is extremely threatening to the common Florges/Mega Aggron defensive core, and just generally doesn't care much about the SpDef walls in the tier, aside from Empoleon (who needs an AV to tank Fire Blasts). The Scarf Infiltrator set I've always found a little underwhelming but it's def a threat to offensive teams.
 
I'm sorry, but how in the world does Chandelure beat Chansey, ever? Even with Taunt or Substitute, you'll just burn all your PP doing dick-all in damage which Chansey will laugh off.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 306-361 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO

That's extremely good conditions for Chandelure and it's still inadequate. Chansey can stall until you miss a Fire Blast, run out of sunlight, or run out of PP, and then Toxic or T-Wave. Without Specs or a Flash Fire boost on top of sunlight, you just straight-up can't 2HKO Chansey.
 
chandelure's only beating chansey if its running subcm which chansey cannot absolutely touch at all

but subcm has difficulties setting up on anything that isn't chansey or chesnaught anyway...
 

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