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Tournament UU Snake Draft II - Week 2
- Thread starter DugZa
- Start date
- Status
won vs accel gg twave wins again
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4uu-594518
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4uu-594518
The circumstances surrounding Torchic and Diophantine's RBY UU series somehow seem to be understood differently from the perspective of both involved teams, so I figured I'd shed some light on it and properly present a case for the hosts to consider. First off, it would be proper to display the scheduling logs between both players:
As seen in the first screenshot, Torchic made it incredibly clear that he would not be free all day on Sunday and specified a 3 hour window of availability. Note that Diophantine did not explicitly state that this window would not work for him and proceeded to vaguely answer Torchic's repeated scheduling attempts. Torchic made both myself and Indigo Plateau aware of the hazy communication on Diophantine's end and immediately upon recognizing the situation, I sent the following alerts out to both vivalospride and Amane Misa (Diophantine's managers).
Here, viv does admit that Diophantine has indeed been 'difficult' with regards to scheduling and that they would be willing to provide a substitute. Normal substitute rulings for team tournaments imply that the substitute would be made readily available at the previously scheduled time between the original opponents. As things stand now, no substitute post from either vivalospride or Amane Misa's ends has been made and it is well past the time Torchic was available to play. Again, Torchic explicitly stated his availability to Diophantine in their initial scheduling conversation and the range was not refuted by Diophantine in any visible way. To make matters worse, Diophantine was apparently online on the forums (well after the window Torchic gave to him) and seems to be blatantly uninterested in getting the game done.
I even gave express permission to one of the Dragonairs' players in Estarossa to contact vivalospride and Amane Misa if Diophantine was nowhere to be found during the times Torchic had offered to him. Here you'll see some logs from the UU Snake Managers channel at around the scheduled time:
As a reminder, Torchic gave Diophantine a window from 2 AM - 5 AM (GMT -5) on Sunday and was waiting for Diophantine or a substitute to be made available to him nearly 5 hours after this window had expired. I think I've honestly gone on for long enough about how accomodating Torchic has been for the purposes of getting his games done, which has been conversely unmirrored by Diophantine in return. Again, no substitute post was made by either manager on the opposite side which should easily point towards Torchic getting the activity win here.
tl;dr Give Torchic the activity win over Diophantine. It's crystal clear.
Last edited:
The circumstances surrounding Torchic and Diophantine's RBY UU series somehow seem to be understood differently from the perspective of both involved teams, so I figured I'd shed some light on it and properly present a case for the hosts to consider. First off, it would be proper to display the scheduling logs between both players:
As seen in the first screenshot, Torchic made it incredibly clear that he would not be free all day on Sunday and specified a 3 hour window of availability. Note that Diophantine did not explicitly state that this window would not work for him and proceeded to vaguely answer Torchic's repeated scheduling attempts. Torchic made both myself and Indigo Plateau aware of the hazy communication on Diophantine's end and immediately upon recognizing the situation, I sent the following alerts out to both vivalospride and Amane Misa (Diophantine's managers).
Here, viv does admit that Diophantine has indeed been 'difficult' with regards to scheduling and that they would be willing to provide a substitute. Normal substitute rulings for team tournaments imply that the substitute would be made readily available at the previously scheduled time between the original opponents. As things stand now, no substitute post from either vivalospride or Amane Misa's ends has been made and it is well past the time Torchic was available to play. Again, Torchic explicitly stated his availability to Diophantine in their initial scheduling conversation and the range was not refuted by Diophantine in any visible way. To make matters worse, Diophantine was apparently online on the forums (well after the window Torchic gave to him) and seems to be blatantly uninterested in getting the game done.
I even gave express permission to one of the Dragonairs' players in Estarossa to contact vivalospride and Amane Misa if Diophantine was nowhere to be found during the times Torchic had offered to him. Here you'll see some logs from the UU Snake Managers channel at around the scheduled time:
As a reminder, Torchic gave Diophantine a window from 2 AM - 5 AM (GMT -5) on Sunday and was waiting for Diophantine or a substitute to be made available to him nearly 5 hours after this window had expired. I think I've honestly gone on for long enough about how accomodating Torchic has been for the purposes of getting his games done, which has been conversely unmirrored by Diophantine in return. Again, no substitute post was made by either manager on the opposite side which should easily point towards Torchic getting the activity win here.
tl;dr Give Torchic the activity win over Diophantine. It's crystal clear.
fuck it didn’t come out properly but that’s scl champ IP taunting a 0.001% salamence with Cobalion (faster)
Indigo Plateau
Looking forward to seeing one and another act win by Torchic.
I personally don't know why a double sub was off the table. We have had a substitute ready since Sunday 12:40am +2 (it's Monday morning right now).
I have asked thrice throughout the day if they can play; on the first time all they did was saying Torchic is asleep (it was 8pm for him so it makes me really hard to believe that). The second time was at 15:00, I asked if Torchic could play on his morning, and I was straight up ignored. The third and last time was about when I was headed to bed. I asked if we are gonna play this game or not, nobody answered me until 15 minutes after, so I told them that whenever they wanna play they should PM viv as I'm gonna gonna to bed. Lastly, I wake up to see a post in the thread regarding this.
Our arguments are the following:
I have asked thrice throughout the day if they can play; on the first time all they did was saying Torchic is asleep (it was 8pm for him so it makes me really hard to believe that). The second time was at 15:00, I asked if Torchic could play on his morning, and I was straight up ignored. The third and last time was about when I was headed to bed. I asked if we are gonna play this game or not, nobody answered me until 15 minutes after, so I told them that whenever they wanna play they should PM viv as I'm gonna gonna to bed. Lastly, I wake up to see a post in the thread regarding this.
Our arguments are the following:
- Diophantine and Torchic have never actually scheduled so you can not say one hasn't shown up and the other did. The reason for that is the ridiculous time window that was given: weekdays 6pm GMT+8 and Sunday 3pm-6pm GMT+8. That's 10am on weekdays and 7am-10am on Sunday for Diophantine.
- Our opponents have had a whole day to sub someone in and they've refused to do it in multiple occasions in which I bugged them. Instead of subbing someone in, they kept arguing about how the activity win should be given to them. Their efforts were clearly put onto getting an activity win and not to find a way to actually play the game.
I’m sorry but I fail to see how our efforts were put on getting an activity win instead of getting the game done, and I strongly disagree that Dio and Torchic never scheduled. The logs are extremely clear. Let me lay this out in the exact way it happened.
1) Torchic reaches out and clearly states his availability. He proposes a time right away or asks Dio if he had another time in mind.
2) Dio replies and says that he can only play on Sunday.
3) Torchic replies and says that he can’t play Sunday, but then immediately makes time and proposes a range he can make on Sunday asking if that would work.
4) Dio completely ignores this message and makes Torchic follow up, saying “give me a time on Sunday you can play.” Dio doesn’t give a time again after multiple messages. Torchic DID specify a time range for Sunday and was there for the ENTIRE time range he gave plus more.
This is clearly Dio not scheduling properly. On top of this, Accel and I tagged you guys more than once each to clarify and Accel even said “I don’t want it to come down to act.” We both explained the situation very very thoroughly too. In fact, 15-18 hours ahead of the range Torchic proposed, I tagged both of you guys in the managers chat and clearly said “Dio hasn’t replied and Torchic wants to play ideally in 15-18 hours” so everyone involved was most definitely aware of the times proposed. Of course there wasn’t a time both had agreed to because my player suggested two different times (weekdays and weekends) and asked for Dio’s availability twice but Dio proposed nothing whatsoever, what’s Torchic supposed to show up to other than the times he suggests?
I really don’t mean to sound like a dick but the effort that my player and Accel / I went through to get this done should show we were definitely not fishing. Timezones are unfortunate but very early in the week my player made it clear he had limited availability on Sunday. RBY is a Bo3 and if Torchic needs to sleep at 9 PM and wake up at 5 AM or whatever for work he shouldn’t be forced to play when he clearly stated he couldn’t. It would’ve been ideal to have a sub for the times that were originally proposed. I’m not sure in what world my player can have clear scheduling with someone that doesn’t bother replying, the managers can reach out multiple times, and yet we’re still expected to make a sub when we did nothing wrong? Knowing that we’d both be busy with SCL finals on Sunday we reached out multiple times beforehand to avoid something like this, and I don’t see why you would wait to sub your player out until after the deadline Torchic originally gave and expect us to sub ours out too. Imagine how easily abusable this is in theory: you’re in a tour where you have a weak slot, you tell your player to reply saying he can play one day of the week then not give specific times, then you sub him out when the other team’s starter isn’t available anymore and force them to sub them out. That’s not how it works.
1) Torchic reaches out and clearly states his availability. He proposes a time right away or asks Dio if he had another time in mind.
2) Dio replies and says that he can only play on Sunday.
3) Torchic replies and says that he can’t play Sunday, but then immediately makes time and proposes a range he can make on Sunday asking if that would work.
4) Dio completely ignores this message and makes Torchic follow up, saying “give me a time on Sunday you can play.” Dio doesn’t give a time again after multiple messages. Torchic DID specify a time range for Sunday and was there for the ENTIRE time range he gave plus more.
This is clearly Dio not scheduling properly. On top of this, Accel and I tagged you guys more than once each to clarify and Accel even said “I don’t want it to come down to act.” We both explained the situation very very thoroughly too. In fact, 15-18 hours ahead of the range Torchic proposed, I tagged both of you guys in the managers chat and clearly said “Dio hasn’t replied and Torchic wants to play ideally in 15-18 hours” so everyone involved was most definitely aware of the times proposed. Of course there wasn’t a time both had agreed to because my player suggested two different times (weekdays and weekends) and asked for Dio’s availability twice but Dio proposed nothing whatsoever, what’s Torchic supposed to show up to other than the times he suggests?
I really don’t mean to sound like a dick but the effort that my player and Accel / I went through to get this done should show we were definitely not fishing. Timezones are unfortunate but very early in the week my player made it clear he had limited availability on Sunday. RBY is a Bo3 and if Torchic needs to sleep at 9 PM and wake up at 5 AM or whatever for work he shouldn’t be forced to play when he clearly stated he couldn’t. It would’ve been ideal to have a sub for the times that were originally proposed. I’m not sure in what world my player can have clear scheduling with someone that doesn’t bother replying, the managers can reach out multiple times, and yet we’re still expected to make a sub when we did nothing wrong? Knowing that we’d both be busy with SCL finals on Sunday we reached out multiple times beforehand to avoid something like this, and I don’t see why you would wait to sub your player out until after the deadline Torchic originally gave and expect us to sub ours out too. Imagine how easily abusable this is in theory: you’re in a tour where you have a weak slot, you tell your player to reply saying he can play one day of the week then not give specific times, then you sub him out when the other team’s starter isn’t available anymore and force them to sub them out. That’s not how it works.
Too busy with SCL finals to address the issues? Sounds like a you problem.
Imagine how easily abusable it is to give three times to your opponent that clearly do not work for them, "show up" to those times despite them having not been agreed upon (what?), and then claiming that they missed the scheduled time (again, what?)
The issue is that the two players could not align because your player had crap availability. But you're paving forward that your player "scheduled" and "showed up" and as such you do not need to provide a substitute and you have been automatically granted the activity win. As such, you ignore both managers' attempts to arrange a substitute.
I have literally never seen a situation on this website where an activity win is granted in a 5-4 situation after a substitute is provided. You claim you were "busy" with SCL, but it sounds to me like a lack of manageering was occurring, you saw an opportunity to fish for activity so you ignored the fact that we substituted, and now you are going forward with it full speed ahead because you don't want to give the week result a fair shot.
I must have missed the sub post. Could someone please link it for records purposes?
The sub and playing proposals are in the uusd managers discord chat.
Diophantine
Banned deucer.
Torchic told me he can only play latest 10am my time, I told my managers this was unreasonable on Thursday (and then again on the following days) because A) in the weekday I have things to do (ironic given the timing of this post but this Monday morning is relatively not busy for me) and B) on the weekend mornings I cannot predict how hungover I will be or even if I'm gonna be at my own house.
My managers wanted a double sub, which is fair. Torchic can only play mornings; I can only play evenings (with afternoon exceptions on weekends), so naturally this should be the case. Also, they were trying to claim that Torchic was sleeping at 8pm his time... lol? (unless I've understood that incorrectly?)
If anything, I think we should get the act win because we were the ones actually trying to get the game done by asking for a double sub and not trying to dance around on technicalities.
My managers wanted a double sub, which is fair. Torchic can only play mornings; I can only play evenings (with afternoon exceptions on weekends), so naturally this should be the case. Also, they were trying to claim that Torchic was sleeping at 8pm his time... lol? (unless I've understood that incorrectly?)
If anything, I think we should get the act win because we were the ones actually trying to get the game done by asking for a double sub and not trying to dance around on technicalities.
You’re joking right
I said, “Knowing that we’d both be busy with SCL finals on Sunday we reached out multiple times beforehand to avoid something like this” and I don’t see how this is an issue. We reached out multiple times before Sunday to not spend hours on a busy Sunday dealing with this, which I’ve now had to do because Dio didn’t want to bother replying with his availability.
There were no “issues” to be addressed on our side. Torchic stuck to the textbook while scheduling, was clear and straightforward with his availability the whole time, while Dio didn’t bother saying anything besides Sunday.
My player didn’t have crap availability lol. He very clearly proposed playing at his 18:00 any day of the week, Dio said he can only play on Sunday, then my player asked if his 15:00 - 18:00 on Sunday worked, got no response, asked Dio for his availability TWICE to try and make other times work on Sunday, got no response. How in the world is this our fault?
But yes, let’s ignore that Dio could’ve avoided all of this by replying to PMs with more than “Sunday” after Torchic messaged him multiple times. I guess I’m also responsible for a “lack of managing” and “ignoring the chance of both managers substituting” in a situation where we both reached out MULTIPLE times and we had ZERO obligations to substitute because my player and myself did everything correctly to get the game done. The precedent this sets if this gets ruled dead or as a double sub awards terrible and incomplete scheduling. I really don’t know how much more active and clearer we could’ve been to get this done.
Torchic didn’t say he can only play latest 10 AM his time, he said “15:00 - 18:00 my time would be okay, give me a time that works for you”, to which you didn’t reply. If my math doesn’t fail me, Accel brought this up again in the manager chat one hour ahead of the time Torchic had proposed on Sunday, viv replied within the course of the next hour, and we had esta take over where he was very actively vocal and clear about you guys making a sub and in the time frame it should hopefully be done in before Torchic had to go (but again we’re trying to fish for activity so badly that we even had one of our players stay communicating in the manager chat while we were sleeping).
I would understand the want for a double sub if you were clear with your availability, but you weren’t. I didn’t find out about your availability until after my player was asleep on Sunday night at a reasonable adult time to sleep. You were literally awake already during the time that Torchic proposed and posted on Smogon but couldn’t bother replying with a time all week to your opp lol. But yeah, Torchic went to bed at 9* PM and woke up at 5 AM because of work and reached out to me multiple times trying to schedule during the week, how dare he have a different schedule than myself, he’s fishing for activity!
I’m actually laughing at how incredibly stupid these two posts were. Please learn how to properly schedule and all of this gets avoided.
hs
Banned deucer.
Honestly, the hungover argument doesn't look that absurd now after you take in account what I just read, you really mustn't be sober enough to think that this was a lucid post. It is a consensus between anyone who's not in your team that you were irresponsible and lazy with scheduling (yet again lol), so it's hilarious to see you not only arguing against it after demonstrating no willingness to play, but also claiming to deserve an activity win. This case is literally solved. Free Week 3.
Are you fucking joking? Why it's a double sub situation? You didn't try to schedule for the whole week. Double sub only applied when two players all have time to play but never match each other.
This is a clear act call. If you don't want to play, just don't signup.
pokemonisfun
Banned deucer.
ok boomer
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