Amnesia does not help Wailord in the slighest to wall things since he needs to switch in first. He needs to take two hits before he gets in one Amnesia. Slowking is so much better than Wailord at all this - as long as he's not BL yet anyway. Slack Off for 50% recovery, and actually takes care of Lucario, Specsmence and Infernape, three of the biggest and most unpredictable Special attackers.
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UU Special Walls
- Thread starter Trust
- Start date
Okay for the record, we're talking about UU SPECIAL WALLS to be used in OU.
So I don't understand your rebuttal, you attempt to correct me, as I wasn't wrong. There is no form of a special attacking breloom, so far. He is only physical, and there is no special wall designed to wall him, ESPECIALLY ONES from UU, because by definition a "special wall" is meant to wall SPECIAL ATTACKS, if it could wall him too, it would need awesome typing and maybe huge hp, but then again I fail to see why you keep coming back to cresselia. We're not talking about UU special walls taking physical hits.
While this may change, probopass (which I think is pushing towards BL, but no definitive tier list has been made so far.) has definite potential. Despite a terrible typing, he can switch very easily into a lot of attacks, forcing a switch. From there, he can magnet rise to turn a x4 weakness into an immunity, he can lay rocks, or maybe he can rock polish, use gravity, or a STAB stone edge, or possibly Bolt-Beam, and also let me mention that inside a sandstorm he can hit like, 635 or so special defense.
As a surprise, a lot of teams might not know what to do with him.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention HE GOES BOOM.
Slowking is certainly better, I was working under the assumption that he was going to be BL without a doubt. Wailord isn't great or anything, but he has a few switch ins that are relatively safe - WoW, fire moves, ice moves, water moves, certain types of setup.
95 base SP atk, beneficial nature, with a 90 power example attack, neutral damage, 252 spatk EVs, runs about 30% damage, not exactly danger zone if you run protect to recover off 12.5% of it - you'll likely be at about 1/2 life by the time you get an amnesia up, after that it drops to about 15% damage, another one and you start getting into leftovers/protect range, at which point you can start hitting them back.
Switching into a neutral choice item (as per above) is generally a 3HKO which is bad, looking at 41-48 or so. So switch 48%, +6.25, protect, +6.25 (total 35.5), +48% - 6.25 = 77.25 (amnesia up), protect 71%,
damage is now 25% max - so 88.75 (amnesia up again), protect for 82.5, then you're forced to leave or die unless you got lucky on the earlier damage rolls or want to chance the protect. Which sucks but ah well.
As highly predictable and dumb this set is, look on the bright side - you're using wailord. I would say fit rest on there, but with 1 attack left he doesn't exactly threaten anything at all.
95 base SP atk, beneficial nature, with a 90 power example attack, neutral damage, 252 spatk EVs, runs about 30% damage, not exactly danger zone if you run protect to recover off 12.5% of it - you'll likely be at about 1/2 life by the time you get an amnesia up, after that it drops to about 15% damage, another one and you start getting into leftovers/protect range, at which point you can start hitting them back.
Switching into a neutral choice item (as per above) is generally a 3HKO which is bad, looking at 41-48 or so. So switch 48%, +6.25, protect, +6.25 (total 35.5), +48% - 6.25 = 77.25 (amnesia up), protect 71%,
damage is now 25% max - so 88.75 (amnesia up again), protect for 82.5, then you're forced to leave or die unless you got lucky on the earlier damage rolls or want to chance the protect. Which sucks but ah well.
As highly predictable and dumb this set is, look on the bright side - you're using wailord. I would say fit rest on there, but with 1 attack left he doesn't exactly threaten anything at all.
This thread was made for discussing about UU Special Walls (Grumpig and Hypno mainly) in OU. I don't mind if they can stand Breloom or not, because they are there to stand Special Sets.
About Hypno, it can recover their mates and himself with Wish, Boost his Sp. Attack with Nasty Plot, statused with Thunder Wave or Hypnosis, Reflect and Light Screen, etc.
The problem with Probopass is that EQ and CC are very used, but if you work with him in the Special Side, it only scares Togekiss and Lucario (Aura Sphere), Heatran, Flygon and Claydol (Earth Power), and random HP fighting (Mismagius). If you work with him and Mismagius, who has good Special Defense Stat too, and inmunity at Ground and Fight, they could work. I will try Probopass with Mismagius.
About Hypno, it can recover their mates and himself with Wish, Boost his Sp. Attack with Nasty Plot, statused with Thunder Wave or Hypnosis, Reflect and Light Screen, etc.
The problem with Probopass is that EQ and CC are very used, but if you work with him in the Special Side, it only scares Togekiss and Lucario (Aura Sphere), Heatran, Flygon and Claydol (Earth Power), and random HP fighting (Mismagius). If you work with him and Mismagius, who has good Special Defense Stat too, and inmunity at Ground and Fight, they could work. I will try Probopass with Mismagius.
If Slowking stays UU, then Slowking is a better special wall than both Grumpig and Hypno.
I used Grumpig a bit in OU in advance, and it did okay. Although, frankly, it is not of the other OU special walls' standards, resists to Ice and Fire are nice.
And, yeah, Snorlax also resists Ice and Fire, but it doesn't resist Fighting.
I used Grumpig a bit in OU in advance, and it did okay. Although, frankly, it is not of the other OU special walls' standards, resists to Ice and Fire are nice.
And, yeah, Snorlax also resists Ice and Fire, but it doesn't resist Fighting.
Hmm, statistically, Lapras seems to be the first UU on the top of the Sp. Def tierlist. (who is currently BL/UU debatable). Shuckle and probopass are next, and it'd be a bit funny to see what someone can do with probopass... Shuckle is more efficient with HP EVs so it probably would be the best statistical wall in UU, weak to surf but neutral to Bolt/Beam.
Then comes mantine, slowking, Tentacruel, Muk and then hypno. Grumpig comes a bit later and is certainly pretty high for UUs.
Slowking is the only one I recognize with Slack Off or recover. So I'd assume that if slowking is allowed, it'd be a beasty wall.
Then comes mantine, slowking, Tentacruel, Muk and then hypno. Grumpig comes a bit later and is certainly pretty high for UUs.
Slowking is the only one I recognize with Slack Off or recover. So I'd assume that if slowking is allowed, it'd be a beasty wall.
Did you read anything, anything, anything, anything, anything, anything, anything, anything, anything I said at all? You mention Breloom was OU. I said Breloom being OU had nothing to do with it. I said they shouldn't be walling phsyical moves anyways, which actually AGREES with you. I went to Cresselia once, so explain where I 'keep coming back'. And then after that, I mentioned Cresselia cause everyone else was trying to think of their 'best Breloom counter' regardless of it was OU or UU.
Hmm well there's an UU special wall that a lot of people seem to be forgetting. What about Shuckle? He qualifies as UU and can be used extremely effectively in the hands of a semi-skilled player.
It can knock off items really easily, and can take any unboosted attack and survive to knock off their item, which is especially useful against a Choice user. It has stealth rock to support the team, and toxic for status. Then it can Rest off the damage and survive the 2 turns easily.
It's actually quite good for battling monsters such as Choice Specs Salamence since it can EV itself to take like 20 something percent from it, knock off the Specs, and then your team isn't in nearly as much trouble as it was before.
Yeah, I know the 25% from Stealth rock is a pain to this guy because of the bug typing that comes with the rock typing, but when you keep in mind that it takes <10% from most attacks, it's not that bad.
Really, Shuckle improved A LOT in D/P. Plus, remember, it's actually better in OU than it is in UU because of Sandstorm's popularity. A 1.5x special defense boost to this guy is more defense than some pokemon have with full EVs.
Ehh, 614 max special defense X 1.5 = 921 special defense...that means it gets an additional 307 special defense from a sandstorm, pretty sweet ehh.
Shuckle does take quite a bit of prediction to use at times though, so beware.
You have to predict when to Rest.
You have to predict if there's any guts users if you use Toxic.
You have to predict to make sure your Knock off isn't HELPING the opponent (Eg. Knocking off a Life Orb may help the opponent in some scenarios).
You also have to predict to make sure that Shuckle is NOT the last pokemon left on your team. If that happens, you have pretty much lost the match if you don't have Toxic, and even then it can be really hard as you have to wait out all the turns for the opponent to faint from Toxic...sometimes you're stuck with him as the last pokemon on your team and Knock Off is your only attacking move...what're you going to do then?
But like I said, a semi-skilled player can use Shuckle very effectively.
That's what I've got to say for now. :]
It can knock off items really easily, and can take any unboosted attack and survive to knock off their item, which is especially useful against a Choice user. It has stealth rock to support the team, and toxic for status. Then it can Rest off the damage and survive the 2 turns easily.
It's actually quite good for battling monsters such as Choice Specs Salamence since it can EV itself to take like 20 something percent from it, knock off the Specs, and then your team isn't in nearly as much trouble as it was before.
Yeah, I know the 25% from Stealth rock is a pain to this guy because of the bug typing that comes with the rock typing, but when you keep in mind that it takes <10% from most attacks, it's not that bad.
Really, Shuckle improved A LOT in D/P. Plus, remember, it's actually better in OU than it is in UU because of Sandstorm's popularity. A 1.5x special defense boost to this guy is more defense than some pokemon have with full EVs.
Ehh, 614 max special defense X 1.5 = 921 special defense...that means it gets an additional 307 special defense from a sandstorm, pretty sweet ehh.
Shuckle does take quite a bit of prediction to use at times though, so beware.
You have to predict when to Rest.
You have to predict if there's any guts users if you use Toxic.
You have to predict to make sure your Knock off isn't HELPING the opponent (Eg. Knocking off a Life Orb may help the opponent in some scenarios).
You also have to predict to make sure that Shuckle is NOT the last pokemon left on your team. If that happens, you have pretty much lost the match if you don't have Toxic, and even then it can be really hard as you have to wait out all the turns for the opponent to faint from Toxic...sometimes you're stuck with him as the last pokemon on your team and Knock Off is your only attacking move...what're you going to do then?
But like I said, a semi-skilled player can use Shuckle very effectively.
That's what I've got to say for now. :]
Aggron is quite the physical wall... too bad it has a huge earthquake / fighting weakness >_>
But I don't think Aggron can be considered a special wall... on the Defense Tiers scale, it scores 112 in Sp. Def. That is equivalent to Manectric and Mightyena on the Sp. Def tier scales. Sure, on the Physical Defense tiers it is slightly above Cresselia but... Sp. Wall? Nah.
But I don't think Aggron can be considered a special wall... on the Defense Tiers scale, it scores 112 in Sp. Def. That is equivalent to Manectric and Mightyena on the Sp. Def tier scales. Sure, on the Physical Defense tiers it is slightly above Cresselia but... Sp. Wall? Nah.
Why isn't Cradily named here? Blasphemy I say.
You are right!! We forgot it. It works better with Sandstorm, but without it, it can work really well. Also, it has a good recovery move, can lay SRs, and with a good movepool anyway.
To elaborate on my earlier post, I'd like to give some examples of how well a mantine can work in OU. Mantine is basically skarmorys retarded brother with a jaw-dropping 140 base Spdef, although he is crippled by thunderbolt, Stealthrocks, and a lack of instant recovery. But, with wish support, rapid spiner, and Electivire, mantine can be a good special.
Mantine laughs at yanmegas comman arsonal of buzz bug, airslash, and HP ice, and can strike back with HP electric or ice beam. Infernape might have grass knot, but it doesn't OKHO Mantine and the monkey will kill itself with its own life orb. The standard tauntdos (void of stone edge, as most are) are utterly walled by him, unless there packing return. On top of all that, when Mr.Gengar comes to thunderbolt you, you switch into your Electivire/Jolteon and reap the benifits.
As I said before, Mantine has been on all my OU teams and he has worked wonders.
Mantine laughs at yanmegas comman arsonal of buzz bug, airslash, and HP ice, and can strike back with HP electric or ice beam. Infernape might have grass knot, but it doesn't OKHO Mantine and the monkey will kill itself with its own life orb. The standard tauntdos (void of stone edge, as most are) are utterly walled by him, unless there packing return. On top of all that, when Mr.Gengar comes to thunderbolt you, you switch into your Electivire/Jolteon and reap the benifits.
As I said before, Mantine has been on all my OU teams and he has worked wonders.
It does have recovery in the form of Water Absorb or psuedo recovery in Aqua Ring + Protect or Sub.