UU Stats: August 2013

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Milotic is probably used since it's one of the few Pokes in UU with reliably recovery. And I agree that Milo is pretty outclassed. Specially Defensive Water Types aren't that great imo, since it's weak to Electric Types, one of the more common special offensive typing. The physically defensive set basically a water-type Gligar imo, except it can spread burns.
 
Milotic may also be used because some players might have the nostalgia of looking for the Feebas. On the topic of Rotom-H and Nidoqueen, I hate how they're used about as much as Registeel, a Pokemon, though that I love, hardly has a niche other than SR and sponging. Not even really walling--just sponging. With coverage moves, Registeel is really easy to counter. Stick with Bronzong, folks!

Still upset because I feel like Mienshao should be the UU spotlight rather than Chandelure; look at the 1850 stats compared to regular:

| Mienshao | +4.44852% |

That's a big jump. Surpassing Chandelure and Raikou by a solid percentage should prove enough that when it comes to BW2 UU, Mienshao takes the cake and eats it too.

I'm just going to stress this: Snorlax is a better wall than Umbreon. It's a solid Chandelure, Raikou, Zapdos, etc. counter especially because of Thick Fat and the ability to fight back. Umbreon is overrated, though still a nice defensive Wish+Heal Bell pivot, but still overrated. Snorlax IS top 10 materal.

I have another Pokemon I'd like to stress: Kabutops.

Sure, Kabutops is no Blastoise in sponging some hits, but it can pose a threat even though it is still a spinner. Kabutops can live the V-Create from Victini, get the speed boost from Weak Armor, and hit with Stone Edge. It also speed ties with nonscarf Chandelure! Kabutops also has priority Aqua Jet and can use Swords Dance as well. All in all, this 1st gen fossil is an offensive spinner in case you really don't want Blastoise or Hitmontop dragging you down.
 
Milotic may also be used because some players might have the nostalgia of looking for the Feebas. On the topic of Rotom-H and Nidoqueen, I hate how they're used about as much as Registeel, a Pokemon, though that I love, hardly has a niche other than SR and sponging. Not even really walling--just sponging. With coverage moves, Registeel is really easy to counter. Stick with Bronzong, folks!

Still upset because I feel like Mienshao should be the UU spotlight rather than Chandelure; look at the 1850 stats compared to regular:

| Mienshao | +4.44852% |

That's a big jump. Surpassing Chandelure and Raikou by a solid percentage should prove enough that when it comes to BW2 UU, Mienshao takes the cake and eats it too.

I'm just going to stress this: Snorlax is a better wall than Umbreon. It's a solid Chandelure, Raikou, Zapdos, etc. counter especially because of Thick Fat and the ability to fight back. Umbreon is overrated, though still a nice defensive Wish+Heal Bell pivot, but still overrated. Snorlax IS top 10 materal.

I have another Pokemon I'd like to stress: Kabutops.

Sure, Kabutops is no Blastoise in sponging some hits, but it can pose a threat even though it is still a spinner. Kabutops can live the V-Create from Victini, get the speed boost from Weak Armor, and hit with Stone Edge. It also speed ties with nonscarf Chandelure! Kabutops also has priority Aqua Jet and can use Swords Dance as well. All in all, this 1st gen fossil is an offensive spinner in case you really don't want Blastoise or Hitmontop dragging you down.
Umbreon covers some physically offensive threats though, for example kingdra cannot ohko Umbreon after stealth rocks IF you switch him in when Kingdra ddances. Umbreon then does 73-84 percent to a +1 life orb ddance kingdra, where as the offensive snorlax sets are ohkoed by ddance life orb kingdra and the defensive sets hardly tickled him at 35-43% for a snorlax using bodyslam on a curse set. Foul play hits like a truck on physical set up sweepers, and hits some special attackers, like Life orb Nidoking or chandelure hard too.
Basically Umbreon has more offense than the defensive snorlax sets but less flexibility in what it can do so you can predict around it, and is about as bulky as a snorlax with some defensive investment at base defense.
 
Also, Umbreon with Baton Pass is a great pivot for offensive teams that need Wish support or something generally bulky with some offensive presence in the form of Foul Play.
 

Robert Alfons

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Umbreon covers some physically offensive threats though, for example kingdra cannot ohko Umbreon after stealth rocks IF you switch him in when Kingdra ddances. Umbreon then does 73-84 percent to a +1 life orb ddance kingdra, where as the offensive snorlax sets are ohkoed by ddance life orb kingdra and the defensive sets hardly tickled him at 35-43% for a snorlax using bodyslam on a curse set. Foul play hits like a truck on physical set up sweepers, and hits some special attackers, like Life orb Nidoking or chandelure hard too.
Basically Umbreon has more offense than the defensive snorlax sets but less flexibility in what it can do so you can predict around it, and is about as bulky as a snorlax with some defensive investment at base defense.
Do keep in mind that while Snorlax can't heavily damage DD Kingdra, he can still possibly phaze him out, which is pretty good. Umbreon has his niche but generally he's less threatening than Snorlax, especially because of his predictability.
 
Even if Umbreon has all this bulk, though, it's not hard to wear down and Raikou sets up behind a sub. Nasty Plot Togekiss enjoys the extra power, too. Cobalion will enjoy the attack boost and can't get poisoned. Umbreon has a niche on defensive teams, but it kind of kills momentum at the same time without proper support or teammates to rely/WishPass to. I'm just saying that Snorlax has nearly as much power as bulk in his CB set while Umbreon doesn't have much at all outside of Foul Play.
 
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Umby provides more utility and team support through Wish, Heal Bell and Baton Pass, whereas Snorlax provides better walling capabilities for the threats of the meta and an actual offensive presence. On a side note, has any one noticed how good Wish+Baton Pass are? Letting Umby take a hit and getting your sweeper healed is just a pain to deal with.
 
| 48 | Bisharp | 4.51830% | 19199 | 5.579% | 15497 | 5.486% |
Please use this more, SD Bisharp is one of the best sweepers. Sucker Punch is such threatening move that alot of time it forces switches, giving you a chance to set up! I prefer it with LO and three attacks, but the on-site set has it with sub and two. Which ever one you pick, please consider it as it can and will sweep most weakened teams.
 
Sucker punch can be unreliable, any priority that's faster or pokemon that can take a sucker punch will stay in and whittle you down. If you carry brickbreak ghosts wall you. Fighting types, fire types and ground type moves are everywhere, and you can be roared out quite easily, wasting your sub and setup. The main thing about bisharp is that sucker punch can be used against you. It's decent and downright threatening. Still has it's drawbacks, and you have to think about how to place it on a team in a meta that has so many se moves and bulky offensive threats to deal with it. The best thing going for bisharp is that mach punch is so uncommon in this meta.
 
Bisharp is good on paper but is easily beaten. Swampert can setup sr and roar on the sub sd. It takes nothing from iron head and bypasses sp with roar.
Swampert is a great mon in this meta. Ive been having fun with a swampert/crobat/snorlax core that works very well. Crobat takes the fighting,grass and bug attacks with ease while swampert and snorlax handle the electric ice and rock attacks aimed at crobat
 
Sucker punch can be unreliable, any priority that's faster or pokemon that can take a sucker punch will stay in and whittle you down. If you carry brickbreak ghosts wall you. Fighting types, fire types and ground type moves are everywhere, and you can be roared out quite easily, wasting your sub and setup. The main thing about bisharp is that sucker punch can be used against you. It's decent and downright threatening. Still has it's drawbacks, and you have to think about how to place it on a team in a meta that has so many se moves and bulky offensive threats to deal with it. The best thing going for bisharp is that mach punch is so uncommon in this meta.
You make a good point, but Bisharp has more than just a lack of fighting-type priority. With a little team support and finding the right time to switch in, it can set up a sub, swords dance, and either sub on a predicted status move or proceed to sucker punch to death. Bisharp isn't the king of UU, it's more like the peasant, but at least it isn't the village idiot. With a little support, Bisharp does fine.

Cobalion needs more usage in my opinion. I would have thought that it would be ~25-30...it's such a great lead. With nice defense, decent offenses, and wonderful speed..

| 37 | Cobalion | 6.93047% | 22042 | 6.405% | 18165 | 6.430% |

It's a wonderful lead; paralysis, stealth rock, close combat, and volt switch. Not only do you get momentum, but you get to support the team and not be dead weight. Plus, after the first couple of turns, Cobalion can actually kill weakened threats with its STAB move or keep that momentum going.
 
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Cobalion is def a good poke but faces a lot of competition with virizion and heracross as fighting sweeper seeing az both cam be famtastic wallbreakers amd sweepers. However, with froslass biting the big one cobalion is able to rise as a great lead. It can taunt thunderwavd sr cc volt switch etc. Scarf chandy darm and victimi really ruin cobalions fun though...
 
Well i think i spotted an interesting team building pattern with a help of move set statistics and my experience , whenever people use a high powered sweeper or a strong wall they consider helpful (even if the don't realize it) to counter it in case they encounter in opponent's team therefore tend to use another pokemon capable of countering it much more that its usually used , for example people that use heracross have a huge chance of using chandelure (+5%) while the usage of blastoise is much lower(+1,8%) probably because blastoise cant perfectly wall heracross
another solid example is raikou players that use raikou have a +5% chance of pairing it with flygon, 4% mienshao and other things that are capable of stopping its sweep,its the same deal with walls , you must however filter the team mates that suggest use in a defensive team.

Another thing that surprises me and but its not UU related (and it wont show up in the stats )is whenever a jirachi is used in a drag mag team there is a good chance that it will be a scarfachi, scarfachi's worsT nightmare is magnezone.

I know that not many people will find it interesting, but it shows how easily people are effected in the team building proses even by something unnoticeable and almost subconscious like this.

Tell me what to think about it, i don't want to start a new topic here but i would like to hear you opinion.

sorry for my English i am european.
 
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Perhaps it is because we tend to overrate the pokemon we like. In your example, perhaps someone using Heracross is more likely to overprepare for it because in their eyes, Heracross is the best, hence they wouldn't be as likely to use it.
 
Sud SD cobalion is infinitely better than the utility set. It sets up on snorlax umbreon and roserade among other, which is a big help for special sweepers like raikou. the utility set is only work using if you are using a volt turn team. Cobalion as a sr setter loses against pretty much every other sr setter, which is usually the circumstance in battles. Both players usually end up trying to set up rocks on the same turn, soo why even use a inferior sr setter when that same poke can be a potentially devasting sweeper?
 
Sud SD cobalion is infinitely better than the utility set. It sets up on snorlax umbreon and roserade among other, which is a big help for special sweepers like raikou. the utility set is only work using if you are using a volt turn team. Cobalion as a sr setter loses against pretty much every other sr setter, which is usually the circumstance in battles. Both players usually end up trying to set up rocks on the same turn, soo why even use a inferior sr setter when that same poke can be a potentially devasting sweeper?
I never said its utility set was the best; I just said it's my favorite. The offensive set is great, too, but I've always liked Lead Cobalion more just because it get rocks up fast. On that same turn, the opponent uses Stealth Rock as well, so you can just switch accordingly. Re-enter the battle to paralyze or revenge kill weakened things. Plus, Rhyperior is weak to ground- and fighting-type moves, while Bronzong can't do much with Earthquake.

0 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 106-126 (27.53 - 32.72%) -- possible 4HKO

Swampert is one of the exceptions, and I'm sure there are more, but the point is that there are many SR setters that are weak to others. You play around it. Never said Lead Cobalion wasn't easy to check/counter. It just has a niche.
 

Robert Alfons

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Well don't forget that like terrakion cobalion can run taunt
This is why I use him. A superfast Taunt is great, especially with SR and Volt Switch so he can support and scout. Plus, his physical bulk is quite stellar so he can tank an Earthquake if he has to. He's not amazing or anything because of bad matchups but he's quite viable.
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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I remember I once used mixed Cobalion with Life Orb and SR + 3 attacks on a VoltTurn team...Close Combat, HP Ice, Volt Switch, Stealth Rock, with 4 Atk EVs, max SpA and Speed...it did a heck of a job at grabbing momentum, getting past the bulky waters (and Gligar) that got in its face while still reliably countering Umbreon and scaring out Porygon2/Snorlax...It wasn't until I used this set that I began to love Cobalion as one of the most versatile Fighting-types in the tier. It may not be the best at hitting hard straight from the jump, but the amount of sets it can run definitely makes up for its initial lack of power.
 
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| 38  | Suicune            |  6.85111% | 4586  |  6.324% | 3824  |  6.416% |
I'm just gonna say like, 'What the fuck.' Suicune is hands down one of the most amazing sweepers in UU. CroCune is an amazing set and the only things reliably stopping it are Roserade(defensive one won't do much tho), Shaymin, Zapdos(but if it has like two or three cms it CAN be outstalled, plus sr weakness), Raikou, and Rotom C i guess though i've never faced it on the ladder. I mean, it had outright higher physical defense than SLOWBRO and like the same special bulk, making it a bitch to go down. Why the ladder doesn't use it puzzles me.
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| 23  | Scrafty            |  8.97381% | 6388  |  8.809% | 5071  |  8.508% |
If i see a BU version i will /wrists
Another amazing sweeper. It has NO COUNTERS, period. Crobat? CB zen headbutt/stone edge/head smash says hello. Heracross? Well, CS is actually outsped after 2 DDs and CB can just zen headbutt and murder it. Swampert is like ehh.. Scrafty learns taunt so yeah it can win against that. My point is, at +2 this can just rip apart entire teams. Definitely top 20 material(helped me get uu suspect reqs :D)
 
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| 38  | Suicune            |  6.85111% | 4586  |  6.324% | 3824  |  6.416% |
I'm just gonna say like, 'What the fuck.' Suicune is hands down one of the most amazing sweepers in UU. CroCune is an amazing set and the only things reliably stopping it are Roserade(defensive one won't do much tho), Shaymin, Zapdos(but if it has like two or three cms it CAN be outstalled, plus sr weakness), Raikou, and Rotom C i guess though i've never faced it on the ladder. I mean, it had outright higher physical defense than SLOWBRO and like the same special bulk, making it a bitch to go down. Why the ladder doesn't use it puzzles me.
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| 23  | Scrafty            |  8.97381% | 6388  |  8.809% | 5071  |  8.508% |
If i see a BU version i will /wrists
Another amazing sweeper. It has NO COUNTERS, period. Crobat? CB zen headbutt/stone edge/head smash says hello. Heracross? Well, CS is actually outsped after 2 DDs and CB can just zen headbutt and murder it. Swampert is like ehh.. Scrafty learns taunt so yeah it can win against that. My point is, at +2 this can just rip apart entire teams. Definitely top 20 material(helped me get uu suspect reqs :D)
Suicune amd scrafty are very good but they face competition from other pokes. While suicune is a great sweeper it doesnt have access to slack off and regeneratir like slowbro. In a cm war slowbro will beat suicune thankz to psyshock while suicune is stuck with scald hoping for the burn. As for scrafty it has all the tools it needs on paper. However, he cant cover every threat which leaves many reliable checks.
On the dd set, he needs to run crunch and hjk (drain punch if youre afraid of missing) and its last coverage moves determines who will it stop. Ice punch hits gligar but you lose to heracross even at +2. Zen headbutt hits crobat and hera but then gligar can cause problems. Its easily checkable thanks to its low speed and averagr attack. Bu scrafty is harder to check once it gets 1 to 2 boosts. Your only hope is to hit hard witha se move like bravr bird, close combat, superpowet etc or phaze it out.
Much love for scrafty but it really needs team support to shine. When you have independent pokes like sd cobalion scarf hera/shao even unbudren hitmonlee it faces a lot of competition.
 
Suicune amd scrafty are very good but they face competition from other pokes. While suicune is a great sweeper it doesnt have access to slack off and regeneratir like slowbro. In a cm war slowbro will beat suicune thankz to psyshock while suicune is stuck with scald hoping for the burn. As for scrafty it has all the tools it needs on paper. However, he cant cover every threat which leaves many reliable checks.
On the dd set, he needs to run crunch and hjk (drain punch if youre afraid of missing) and its last coverage moves determines who will it stop. Ice punch hits gligar but you lose to heracross even at +2. Zen headbutt hits crobat and hera but then gligar can cause problems. Its easily checkable thanks to its low speed and averagr attack. Bu scrafty is harder to check once it gets 1 to 2 boosts. Your only hope is to hit hard witha se move like bravr bird, close combat, superpowet etc or phaze it out.
Much love for scrafty but it really needs team support to shine. When you have independent pokes like sd cobalion scarf hera/shao even unbudren hitmonlee it faces a lot of competition.
This isn't about CM wars, sorry if this comes off as a bit rude, but imo you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Uhm, CM wars imo is p rare in UU, CM slowbro being even rarer. Suicune's special bulk imo makes it a wayyy better sweeper, while also shrugging off status. A well played suicune doesn't need to have reliable recovery as long as you heal at the right time. Also it has massive physical defense so it can take psyshockes, but that's beside the point. Gligar imo is a TERRIBLE argument. It sucks in this meta, period. Also shed skin variants of scrafty outstall it. And imo these are easily top 5 setup sweepers.
tl;dr ilove scrafty and suicune
 
Easy there kingler!
Im not trying to argue i was just making a point that both pokes face competition. Cm bro isnt rare and psyshock is a very big reason for slowbros usage. Slowbro can ohko defensive roserade with sr on the field on the switch with psyshock. Also the fighting resist is what makes slowbro so good at countering mienshao and close combat locked hera. The role of bulky water can go to numetous pokes ; slowbro suicune milotic slowking, etc. Obv the best options are suicune and slowbro. Both have their advantages but slowbro is also a great pivot. Pressure from suicune is great too.
I only used gligar once and its easy to beat but the fact that its presence is here cant be ignored correct? Heck mienshao who was able to easiky beat gligar with hp ice droppdd it for aerial ace and became a heracross check anx scout. Gligar is more annoying than threatening.
 
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