Pokémon Venusaur

[McGrrr]

Megasaur can give up seeding or sleep powder if need be, to threaten pokes that normally wall/set up on him. Since he has a new found role forcing switches it would be better to add more coverage with his 100 atk than to aim to sleep 1 poke.
Synthesis only has 8 pp Shadow ball has 16, he will simply outlast synthesis and murder your mega (unless you went pure Sdef tank). Those calcs were without entry hazards, with em, its even more difficult.

I'm precisely discussing the Calm stalling set, which IMO, is the best use for Mega Venusaur.

 

[zwizzy]

I'm precisely discussing the Calm stalling set, which IMO, is the best use for Mega Venusaur.

Ah I see, my bad:). that is what I like about Msaur, (aside from being my favorite pokemon line) I dont think there is a best use, he has alot of options available to him, physical/ special wall; tanking, and some have invented a transition set from chlorophyll sweep to tanky bruiser.

 

[Centaurion]

Ah I see, my bad:). that is what I like about Msaur, (aside from being my favorite pokemon line) I dont think there is a best use, he has alot of options available to him, physical/ special wall; tanking, and some have invented a transition set from chlorophyll sweep to tanky bruiser.

Can you elaborate on what that transition set is? I was looking for something of the sort.

 

[zwizzy]

Can you elaborate on what that transition set is? I was looking for something of the sort.

Lol I am pretty sure it was you who mentioned it,

but something along the lines of

atk 252 s atk 100 speed 152
EQ
petal blizz/ powerwhip
sludge bomb/synthesis
growth

Thinking about it now though, a baton passed white herb shell smash would be epic on him. Once you clear out skarmory/forrethorn and pop multi scale

 

[Centaurion]

Lol I am pretty sure it was you who mentioned it,

but something along the lines of

atk 252 s atk 100 speed 152
EQ/outrage
petal blizz/ powerwhip
sludge bomb/synthesis
growth

Thinking about it now though, a baton passed white herb shell smash would be epic on him. Once you clear out skarmory/forrethorn and pop multi scale

I like the idea of a mixed set like that, but I'm not seeing the tankiness. In the sun, Venusaur has immense speed and can sweep very effectively, but once the sun runs out, Venusaur loses the speed and is left completely open for hard hitting ohko moves used by most high speed sweepers.

 

[zwizzy]

I like the idea of a mixed set like that, but I'm not seeing the tankiness. In the sun, Venusaur has immense speed and can sweep very effectively, but once the sun runs out, Venusaur loses the speed and is left completely open for hard hitting ohko moves used by most high speed sweepers.

Uh you must not be looking hard enough then, without EV he is tankier than almost a max EV heatran with less resistances, but has the ability to restore his own hp.

Not that I say "run this set" but still I imagine it could see decent success otherwise, you can swap EVs to defense evs and be bulkier sacrificing some damage and plow through like normal. Its a trade off tbh, frankly, if you can clear out the few pokes that wall him (skarmory, and forretress / forethorn) he could just have his way with the enemy team. Thinkin bout it further, if forrethorn/foretress comes in on you; you could probably just growth to +6 on them since i doubt they can do anythin to scare you out anyway)

 

[Centaurion]

Uh you must not be looking hard enough then, without EV he is tankier than almost a max EV heatran with less resistances, but has the ability to restore his own hp.

Not that I say "run this set" but still I imagine it could see decent success otherwise, you can swap EVs to defense evs and be bulkier sacrificing some damage and plow through like normal. Its a trade off tbh, frankly, if you can clear out the few pokes that wall him (skarmory, and forretress / forethorn) he could just have his way with the enemy team. Thinkin bout it further, if forrethorn/foretress comes in on you; you could probably just growth to +6 on them since i doubt they can do anythin to scare you out anyway)

Perhaps replacing sludge bomb with sleep powder would give Venusaur the ability to set up and maintain momentum when the sun runs out. Something like Growth/Swords Dance, Sleep Powder, Power Whip, and EQ could be amazing as a physical set.

 

[Jaroda]

Uh you must not be looking hard enough then, without EV he is tankier than almost a max EV heatran with less resistances, but has the ability to restore his own hp.

Not that I say "run this set" but still I imagine it could see decent success otherwise, you can swap EVs to defense evs and be bulkier sacrificing some damage and plow through like normal. Its a trade off tbh, frankly, if you can clear out the few pokes that wall him (skarmory, and forretress / forethorn) he could just have his way with the enemy team. Thinkin bout it further, if forrethorn/foretress comes in on you; you could probably just growth to +6 on them since i doubt they can do anythin to scare you out anyway)

Venusaur should never sit in on Skarmory, only being able to threaten with Sleep. Skarmory can stack Spikes and then Whirlwind or use Brave Bird. You'll never be able to simply boost again it. Growth set with EQ/Sludge Bomb/Giga Drain is the best combo of mixed attack and health recovery.

 

[zwizzy]

Venus air should never sit in on Skarmory, only being able to threaten with Sleep. Skarmory can stack Spikes and then Whirlwind or use Brave Bird. You'll never be able to simply boost again it. Growth set with EQ/Sludge Bomb/Giga Drain is the best combo of mixed attack and health recovery.

You misread, I said vs Forretress and Forrethorn, not skarmory. Skarmory is saur's hard counter. There is nothing Mega saur can do vs skarmory except switch out

right now I am running a bold 252 hp, 100 def, 152 sdef set on Megasaur, for balanced bulk. I plan to breed another one later who will sac speed instead of atk, for a mixed set later using 252 hp 252 atk (or somethin to this effect):)

 

[zwizzy]

Honestly this is the mega that I am most interested in.

Most megas are offensive oriented, and most of those offensive oriented megas have a pretty serious problem: their non-mega forms hit harder than their megas while holding a life orb.

Venusaur is different: with a paltry two weaknesses, a couple key resists, huge defensive stats, a killer spa, and a buff to synthesis, I think megasaur is going to be a huge player in the bulky offense game. The only downside is its lack of ground resist.

Well he misses his leftovers tremendously. Probably what makes Megasaur interesting is that he fills a very differnet role depending on how you use him.

You got classic sun sweeper, classic stall, classic tank, then you got mega tank, mega pivot. If you ran a team with fake megas it could really throw the opponent off.

 

[Kyreth]

You misread, I said vs Forretress and Forrethorn, not skarmory. Skarmory is saur's hard counter. There is nothing Mega saur can do vs skarmory except switch out

right now I am running a bold 252 hp, 100 def, 152 sdef set on Megasaur, for balanced bulk. I plan to breed another one later who will sac speed instead of atk, for a mixed set later using 252 hp 252 atk (or somethin to this effect):)

Not quite. Some builds can at least Sleep/Seed Skarmory and stall for a while to wear it down, though it's totally got the advantage- but Skarmory isn't immune to being statused, at least. Residual damage is most the nastiest Mega-V can inflict, which makes Leech Seed (common), HP Fire/Electric (which will do something), and Bind (why, gawd why) about all the options you've got for dealing with the damn bird. I don't think Skarmory OHKO's Megasaur, so you can at least Sleep him and cross your fingers on a solution/Leech and switch.

 

[meb9000]

I have been trying out the pure Defense-oriented MegaSaur with Bold 252 HP/252 DEF, and it reminds me of Goodra with Assault vest in terms of being able to take neutral hits like they are nothing. Its offenses are a bit on the weak side, but it can just spam Giga Drains sometimes and outlast its opponents.

Venusaur@Venesaurite
-Bold/252 HP/252 Def/4 Spec. Attack
-Sludge Bomb
-Giga Drain
-Sleep Powder
-Synthesis/Leech Seed

I'm real torn between Synthesis and Leech Seed. The guaranteed big recovery of Synthesis is nice on a tank such as this one, but the damage over time for Seed can really help against the MANY pokemon who resist both of MegaSaur's STABs. For Pete's sake, Skarmory, Forretress, (or nearly every steel type out there sans Excadrill/Empoleon/NU Steelix), Crobat, ANY pure Poison type, the list goes on. That's my only real issue with MegaSaur, if he is backed in a corner with no one to switch out to, he can be walled so easily. That makes me lean towards Leech Seed I suppose.

 

[Kyreth]

that set is just asking the multitude of steel supports to come in and start setting up on you. HP fire seems necessary

That's what the Sleep/Seed combo is for. I mean, HP Fire is basically it for dealing with Skarmory otherwise, as noted above- but Venusaur doesn't have a moveset that'll cover everything. Leeching them and just picking away with not-very-effective moves while they snooze and take Seed damage each turn is about the best you can do without switching, otherwise you're stuck with likely Giga Drain + HP Fire and that's...er...meh.

 

[New World Order]

Megasaur has poor matchups against most of the current top threats, especially Talonflame, Aegislash, and all the dragons. It's only "reliable" recovery is Synthesis which is gimped in the sand and has only 8 PP. It's a pivot that lacks Leftovers, which even on a full wall like Chansey is problematic, let alone something that's going to do a lot of switching in and right back out. The only real good matchups it has are Azumarill and Rotom-W, because you'll have to sacrifice either STAB to deal with MegaLuke (and hence either becoming a liability against dragons or no losing your weapon against water/ground types). There are better ways to deal with Azumarill than using your Mega slot on a pivot with 4 moveslot syndrome+lack of passive recovery+poor matchups against the most influential forces in OU.

 

[zwizzy]

Kyreth it would take an absurd amount of luck for Megasaur to beat Skarmory, it IS a hard counter. Skarmory, can brave bird and roost away the damage, freely set up spikes. If skarmory is free to do as it wishes and Saur cant respond, thats a counter. When Skarmory can not only do what it wants but also threaten to kill Msaur, thats a hard counter. Leech seed wont do crap he has roost.

crazy_man Grass/Poison take neutral damage to poison, Msaur is the strongest of all the grass/poison types, he will beat them all. Pure poison can be threatened if you pack EQ onto your set though. Your right about that.

New World Order Saur has 4mss but its not as bad as you make it out to be, he still has many opportunities to be played and hit stuff, hard. 100 atk 120 Spattk is nothing to scoff at, it may not be the 170 on charizard Y, but its still very potent.
Tested using a Bold Msaur with NO damage investment, running the 3 common attacks Giga drain, Sludge Bomb, and Earth Quake
Giga Drain: 30.44 - 36.03%Earthquake: 13.68 - 16.2%Sludge Bomb: 17.87 - 21.22%: 0 - 0%


0 SpA Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 109-129 (30.44 - 36.03%) -- 45.92% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 136-162 (41.08 - 48.94%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Haxorus: 153-180 (52.04 - 61.22%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 114-135 (35.18 - 41.66%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (if multi is down)
Theres are with 0 investment into his attacking stats and WITHOUT stealth rock.

Vs aegis
0- Atk Venusaur Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 68-80 (25.95 - 30.53%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (on defense form)
the minute he switches out to aggressive stance
0- Atk Venusaur Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 162-192 (61.83 - 73.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Vs other potential OU threats:

0 SpA Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 206-246 (63.58 - 75.92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
retaliation to
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0+ Def Venusaur: 190-225 (63.12 - 74.75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Saur takes 225, heals back 100 due to giga drain, (total zero investments in def tho bold nature, Mega Saur wins)


252 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0+ Def Venusaur: 130-154 (43.18 - 51.16%) -- 53.13% chance to 2HKO after weather
0 SpA Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 126-150 (36.84 - 43.85%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Saur heals up 65 damage, so takes a net at worst of 85.

Vs charizard Y
0 SpA Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard: 129-153 (43.43 - 51.51%) -- 6.25% chance to 2HKO (no hazards) before switching out, (if rocks are up. hes toast.)

As for blaziken:
0 SpA Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 153-180 (50.66 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0+ Def Thick Fat Venusaur: 180-212 (59.8 - 70.43%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Blaizken cannot set up on MegaSaur he WILL die.

AGAIN ALL with 0 investment on mega saur yet MAX investment by the others, only using a bold nature.
You severly underestimate him. He can get revenged, but plenty of his "counters" cant actually switch in on him.

Msaur does not have the typing to be a sweeper, play him to his strengths; he has 5 team mates:)

 

[Hrothgar]

Megasaur has poor matchups against most of the current top threats, especially Talonflame, Aegislash, and all the dragons. It's only "reliable" recovery is Synthesis which is gimped in the sand and has only 8 PP. It's a pivot that lacks Leftovers, which even on a full wall like Chansey is problematic, let alone something that's going to do a lot of switching in and right back out. The only real good matchups it has are Azumarill and Rotom-W, because you'll have to sacrifice either STAB to deal with MegaLuke (and hence either becoming a liability against dragons or no losing your weapon against water/ground types). There are better ways to deal with Azumarill than using your Mega slot on a pivot with 4 moveslot syndrome+lack of passive recovery+poor matchups against the most influential forces in OU.

I'm curious what better ways there are to deal with azumarill. Megasaur seems like a solid counter to a number of solid pokemon.

And imo synthesis is a fine replacement to leftovers thanks to the weather nerf.

 

[Kyreth]

Kyreth it would take an absurd amount of luck for Megasaur to beat Skarmory, it IS a hard counter. Skarmory, can brave bird and roost away the damage, freely set up spikes. If skarmory is free to do as it wishes and Saur cant respond, thats a counter. When Skarmory can not only do what it wants but also threaten to kill Msaur, thats a hard counter. Leech seed wont do crap he has roost.

There's basically one solution for a Megasaur vs. Skarmory- HP Fire (or Electric, but generally that's a "Why?") after sleeping the thing. As noted, the odds aren't in favor of Megasaur, but it's doable since Skarmory doesn't OHKO Megasaur. Anybody with math want to figure out how much HP Fire is gonna take to melt one down?

 

[Torterrible]

I'm between two different builds for an offensive Venusaur but I can't decide which Venusaur build to run on my semi-sun team with Mega Charizad Y.

Option 1:

Venusaur @ Life Orb/Black Sludge
Ability: Chlorophyll
Naure: Jolly/Adamant
EV's: 252 Atk/92 HP/164 Spe
Swords Dance
Power Whip
Earth Quake
Sleep Powder


Option 2:

Venusaur @ Life Orb/Black Sludge
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Naive
EV's: 252 Atk/92 SpA/164 Spe
Growth
Power Whip
Earthquake
Sludge Bomb


Option 1 offers less dependence on the sun should it run out along with the ability for an easier setup thanks to sleep powder. Option 2 sacrifices the sleep powder easy set up and still very much requires the sun to power up BUT offers WAY better coverage with the addition of Sludge Bomb and mixed attack stats.

 

[Jonathan St-Yves]

Special tank Megasaur is a beast. I run this set with great success on the OU ladder:

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed
- Sleep Powder
- Synthesis

Venusaur is probably the Pokemon most commonly switched in in my team. He will then often Seed or sleep the switch in (read: talonflame) and be replaced with Tyranitar who'll tank the Brave Bird and be at about 95% after leftovers and seed recovery.
Many people will underestimate it's bulkiness. At full HP (something that will often happen thanks to Synthesis), Venusaur can tank most Special attackers without trouble. He can even often survive against psychic types, especially if the are seeded. Psyshock hits hard though. As silly as it might sound to someone who remember the good old days of RBY, Venusaur is my check of choice against special Fire types such as Rotom-H, Ninetails and Volcarona.
Megasaur also makes a great anti-lead. He's immune to spores, can activate his mega stone to more easily switch in later. He checks Greninja and Smeargle very well (2hko for both), as well as most lead Tyranitar counters.

Sludge Bomb could replace Giga Drain. Venusaur can't do much against Grass-types like Breloom(especially Poison Heal). The most problematic one is Ferrothorn though, and Sludge Bomb doesn't fix that. Giga Drain is great against the many Ground and Water types and often provides as much offense with extra recovery.

 

[Plasma.EXE]

Before megaevolving, Chllorophyll is still very handy to have for revenge killing some sun users. Assuming sticky web isn't in play, Venasaur (before he mega-evolves) can outspeed Timid Charizard Y under the sun without any speed EV's and put it to sleep with Sleep Powder. Assuming you have stealth rocks in play, it's possible to defeat it with Modest invested Sludge Bomb before it wakes up (you're dead if it wakes up on turn 2 since even at half health, Charizard Y is capable of taking a sludge bomb at half health).

 

[zwizzy]

After running a few Mega Saur sets a few times, I noticed some points of interest:
I am startin to shy away from giga drain all together and looking for a replacement move on sets with 0 SpA EVs. The damage is too low, and you get walled by so many things to rely on that as a heal. (have not done so yet of course but I am looking, maybe powerwhip/leafstorm or a coverage move?) Saur forces switches so chances are when you giga drain you will not get a good return anyway.

Sleep powder has hardly proved its worth, but it barley makes the cut. I dunno if its just me but it does not feel as accurate as before. Maybe replace with substitute and run a more aggressive sub seeding set (keep giga drain in this case).

Sludge bomb is flipping amazing, unlike grass type moves; so many switch ins HATE it.

 

[Dwish]

After running a few Mega Saur sets a few times, I noticed some points of interest:
I am startin to shy away from giga drain all together and looking for a replacement move on sets with 0 SpA EVs. The damage is too low, and you get walled by so many things to rely on that as a heal. (have not done so yet of course but I am looking, maybe powerwhip/leafstorm or a coverage move?) Saur forces switches so chances are when you giga drain you will not get a good return anyway.

Sleep powder has hardly proved its worth, but it barley makes the cut. I dunno if its just me but it does not feel as accurate as before. Maybe replace with substitute and run a more aggressive sub seeding set (keep giga drain in this case).

Sludge bomb is flipping amazing, unlike grass type moves; so many switch ins HATE it.

I feel your pain. Against one of my friends who is familiar with my set

Giga drain
Synthesis
Leech seed
Sleep powder/quake/sludge bomb

I'm basically set up bait every time I throw saur out there for either spikes or sword dances etc because my friend knows that I'm not going to do enough damage to be a threat.

The only thing I can do is sleep him to a switch, or sludge bombing him, which admittedly I haven't tried yet, maybe that will do enough damage....

He's running a sunny day/drought team with Mega Charizard Y tho so that doesn't help things obviously.

Since I'm running a calm natured saur quake is pretty much useless.

Sleep powder is meh; while it helps my team out kinda saur is sort of useless and a liability because I can't really do enough damage with just giga drain to almost any Pokemon.

I have to experiment with sludge bomb to see if it does any work. But if I have it then any steel Pokemon I'm f'd (hello lucario)

Again, he's running a sun team and is familiar with my team.I also don't have my saur with chlorophyll (which I need to get) but either way that would help me with one turn cuz I would want thick fat since my saur is not an offensive one.

 

[Plasma.EXE]

Sleep Powder is still a very good move to have even if a bit unreliable. Even if you do get walled, Mega Venusaur has excellent special attack to work off of using Giga Drain that even Gengar can't set-up Substitute on you (Modest Mega Venusaur breaks Gengar sub 100% of the time with a resisted giga drain and does around 37% damage against one with no HP EV's, I don't think the HP EV's would be enough to stop sub from breaking nor would mega evolving). Granted you might not win again Gengar (and may have to worry about disable set's which you can try to gamble with sleep powder), you're less likely to get your whole team swept by one. Sludge Bomb hit's like a truck and has a chance of inflicting poison on the most annoying special wall switch in's like Goodra or Blissey.

 

[zwizzy]

Sleep Powder is still a very good move to have even if a bit unreliable. Even if you do get walled, Mega Venusaur has excellent special attack to work off of using Giga Drain that even Gengar can't set-up Substitute on you (Modest Mega Venusaur breaks Gengar sub 100% of the time with a resisted giga drain and does around 37% damage against one with no HP EV's, I don't think the HP EV's would be enough to stop sub from breaking nor would mega evolving). Granted you might not win again Gengar (and may have to worry about disable set's which you can try to gamble with sleep powder), you're less likely to get your whole team swept by one. Sludge Bomb hit's like a truck and has a chance of inflicting poison on the most annoying special wall switch in's like Goodra or Blissey.

He has an excellent s atk , and great stats; but it feels as if giga drain is actually conflicting with his role of forcing switches.
To me mega saur's point is to force the enemy out and nail the incomming poke on the switch with a nasty hit. (so stealth rock/hazard support synergizes well with saur) Gigadrain just doesnt do enough to warrant this (from my experiences) too many things resist it to be fair though it is 75 bp stab. Even a negative nature Earthquake is more threatening than it simply because of the sheer number of resistances.

Sludge bomb doesnt have this problem though resisted only by ghost, ground, rock ,poison, steel. (rock, poison, and steel hate EQ if you run it)
Giga drain though is resisted by (flying, grass, poison, steel, fire, bug, dragon) and so many pokes have this as a secondary typing. To nail those things hard giga drain just isnt enough. EQ can handle the poison, steel, and fire but that leaves u with 4 pokes still resisting). I am truly surprised at how useful sludge bomb as been, especially from one of the worst offensive typings in the game. Charizard, Talonflame, togekiss,

 

[Dwish]

He has an excellent s atk , and great stats; but it feels as if giga drain is actually conflicting with his role of forcing switches.
To me mega saur's point is to force the enemy out and nail the incomming poke on the switch with a nasty hit. (so stealth rock/hazard support synergizes well with saur) Gigadrain just doesnt do enough to warrant this (from my experiences) too many things resist it to be fair though it is 75 bp stab. Even a negative nature Earthquake is more threatening than it simply because of the sheer number of resistances.

Sludge bomb doesnt have this problem though resisted only by ghost, ground, rock ,poison, steel. (rock, poison, and steel hate EQ if you run it)
Giga drain though is resisted by (flying, grass, poison, steel, fire, bug, dragon) and so many pokes have this as a secondary typing. To nail those things hard giga drain just isnt enough. EQ can handle the poison, steel, and fire but that leaves u with 4 pokes still resisting). I am truly surprised at how useful sludge bomb as been, especially from one of the worst offensive typings in the game. Charizard, Talonflame, togekiss,

Yea I think I'm going revise my saur, besides getting one with chlorophyll I need to change things up since I'm not forcing any switches and in fact, I'm actually letting my opponent set up for days and being a total liability.

I just don't know what nature I should go with if I'm still going to be using Mega saur for his boosted stats and thick fat...any ideas?

I'm thinking of going towards a more attack oriented saur? To actually kill/threat things and force switches?

Synthesis
Quake (actually viable now)
Power whip
Sleep powder/leech seed/sleep powder/another coverage move?

Nature: I'm either going sassy to be more defensive. Adamant more offensive?

I'm not sure to be honest, if I'm going to be more offensive leech seed is almost useless because ill either be forcing switches or doing so much damage that it doesn't even matter.