ORAS OU Verdant (Bulky Offense Team)

[Liepard]

"green with vegetation; covered with growing plants or grass"
"inexperienced; unsophisticated" -Dictionary.com

Verdant

Hi there, after using this team since the days of X/Y and having fairly solid success with it, I have decided to bring it to the forums to see if I can improve on it any further. The team is based around the combination of M-Venusaur and the rest of the team to weaken the opponents, and pave the way for a Volcarona sweep. While I have not reached amazing ladder heights because of my own stupidity,mostly due to a lack of time for laddering and the fact that while I'm fairly seasoned in competitive battling, I still have a lot to learn in the way of not making stupid mistakes in comparison to some who've been doing this a lot longer than I. Nevertheless, I'd like get some fresh eyes and see if there's anything else that can be done team building wise. So, come at me.



(The name is a reference to the fact that excluding Dragonite, my team's types are related to nature and living things. And it's a symptom for green. Venusaur is the king, here.)

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Sapsaur (Venusaur) (M) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis

What an awesome thing it is when you're favorite/first pokemon is completely competitively viable.
Bias aside, Venusaur is the cream between the cookie slices that holds my team together. Not only does he eliminate many of the water types that scare Volcarona, but he provides a great deal of support to the team in the way of wearing down or switching into threats. Fairly standard offense M-Venusaur here, Giga Drain is my grass STAB of choice and is decent healing when Tyranitiar's sand is messing with Synthesis. Sludge Bomb is a wonderfully spammable move that I frequently rely on to hurt common enemy switch ins. I opted for Hidden Power Fire so I could hit Ferrothorn instead of Heatran; as you'll see later on I have plenty of Earthquakes to deal with the fire toad. Synthesis is my main way of keeping Sapsaur alive in between the moves I have to switch him it on and it absolutely necessary in many cases to give him the staying power he requires to check what I need him to.

Dragonite (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake

Dragonite is my 463.0 lbs battering ram. The amount of damage she can do with that choice banded Outrage has been my saving grace against against the bulkier opponents that my other pokemon just can't break past. Her Extreme Speed is also vital in compensating for my team's lack of speed (if you haven't noticed, the fastest pokemon I have is Excadrill and that's saying something.) Revenge killer, wall breaker, and backup win condition, I couldn't honestly see my team without her. As previously mentioned, I need Outrage over Dragon Claw just because while power, my pokemon don't always have the ability to get past some of OU's tanks, walls, and other bulky pokemon, a specific example being enemy M-Venusaur (detailed further in my threat list.) Extreme Speed is a great tool for revenge killing and picking off frailer/weakened but faster pokemon. Fire Punch is simply for coverage against Steel types and honestly doesn't see much action, and Earthquake deals with the rest, including Heatran.

Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest

My team is not fond of M-Metagross. Or M-Pinsir. Or Scizor. Or certain other physical based attackers. I have ways of dealing with them without Wash, yes, but its presence makes my life much easier. And the synergy works, so I have no complaints with having it around. I know I could have gone with Pain Split and Leftovers, but I honestly have found Pain Split unreliable and the status absorption is a nice bonus, especially because I frequently find Will-O-Wisps coming my way. A Volt Switch is a Wash's best friend and is a good way to provide a safe entrance for Venusaur. Hydro Pump adds much needed water type coverage to diversify my ability to beat Fire/Rock/Ground types. Will-O-Wisp is of course there for crippling some of the physical attackers that are strong enough to get past my team's bulk. Rest gives me a one chance to heal Rotom's damage and continue to pivot and counter threats.

Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Crunch
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake

In what I think might be the most common scene in an OU battle, Tyranitar's typical job is coming out, either using Stealth Rock or Ice Beaming/Earthquaking my enemy's lead, then fleeing into his pokeball into I need him to check something later on or take a hit. He has a bit of a case of four move slot syndrome because sometimes I wish I could have him check Talonflame/Charizard Y in one blow with a Stone Edge instead of two Crunches, but otherwise he checks what I need him to. Volcarona cannot tolerate birds and fellow Fire types ruining her fun, so keeping Stealth Rock up is important to my success. Also, as I said earlier, while my team hits hard and gets kills by wearing down the enemy and finishing them off later, the rocks can nag me a few extra KOs. My team isn't fond of the Lati twins, particularly Latios with Surf, so Crunch gets them and is a good way to eliminate other pesky psychics. Ice Beam is for incoming Garchomps, Landorus-Ts, and Gliscors, all which trample on Volcarona's parade. Earthquake is for more Heatran beating action and for Charizard X and its dancing shenanigans.

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Excadrill (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

No Sand Rush? Yes, I'm serious. 90% of people including myself expect Sand Rush Excadrill when they see it on a team with T-tar, but no, I tried it, didn't like it, and now he does a lot better in a supportive role. Besides, if my enemy blinks and doesn't see the little "Excadrill has broken the mold!" message, I can effectively bluff that set and take out that Rotom-W or Gengar they sent in to deal with him. One down, 5 to go. The Choice Scarf is a blessing and a curse; my team REALLY isn't the fastest out there and sometimes I need him to play the revenge killer, but it also means I can't Rapid Spin as well as I wish he could. Excadrill holds the final Earthquake of my team, since that lovely move is my STAB and as mentioned earlier is great for eliminating his natural predators. Iron Head is for the Fairies; Venusaur can usually handle a good deal of them with his Sludge Bomb, but occasionally I need him to take out the faster ones or if Venusaur is too injured to take a hit. The birdspam trio is frightening if Rotom-W is down, and Rock Slide is one way to give me a little extra protection against them. Rapid Spin is there for obvious reasons.

Monarch (Volcarona) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 124 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Giga Drain
- Roost

Like the queen in Chess, Monarch here holds the power, the final piece of the puzzle, the pokemon I send in at the last moment to end it all and hoping win the match-up. She lacks in immediate power, and sometimes I manage to win before she can come in, but I generally have found her useful, and if she can't do her job, I can always have her come in and have my fingers crossed that she can burn her opponent. I am using an older move set on her, a bulky roost set. A Quiver Dance later and she can take a lot more hits than you'd expect, although she lacks in immediate power. Quiver Dance is my set up move and is really needed for extra speed and Sp. Attack. Fiery Dance plays along with this theme too, and in some cases is the nail in the coffin for my opponent. Giga Drain is mostly for Water types and to hit Rock types if I for some reason have had to send her out before they're taken care of. Roost helps her set up in peace.

The Threats:

M-Venusaur: Ironically, the pokemon that brings my team together is also a big threat. My best bet is usually to either have a Venusaur vs Venusaur showdown and pray that I out speed it, or to have Dragonite knock it down to low health with Outrage, but both of these scenarios are risky.

Fast Setup Sweepers: My team really isn't amazing fast and if such pokemon is able to set up, it can rip holes in my team before I can take it down. I have Sword Dance Garchomp in mind specifically; this things gets in and my only hope is that I can get it locked into Outrage and have Tyranitar come in with Ice Beam. Dragonite can't revenge it well either due to Rough Skin. M-Lopunny is dangerous too at full health as I can't OHKO it with Extreme Speed and Ice Punch puts Dragonite down. Alazakam and Gengar can be painful, too.

Starmie: More of a nuisance than a threat because Starmie generally play supporting roles, these guys can hurt me with their Water/Psychic/Ice coverage, which basically hurt all of my pokemon.

Lati@s: Similar to Starmie, the Latis have the right moves to hurt me. Latias to a lesser extent, I get more worried about Latios, especially if he's carrying Surf for Tyranitar. Not sure about their Mega forms, haven't really encountered them on the battlefield often.

M-Sableye: I lack in Fairy coverage, so if this one sets up on me, it can be an awful pain to take down. In these cases, I put Excadrill in after it Mega Evolves and tries to flinch it to death with Iron Head. If it burns me, I'm done.

Options:
Excadrill (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 220 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin
I am currently testing out this set with Excadrill so he can deal with the Latis and M-Sableye for me. It's been going okay so far, but if I do change him to this, my team will be even slower than ever. Give me your thoughts on this.

Also, I am thinking of changing Volcarona over to the standard Timid set.

Thanks in advance, Rate My Team users.

 

[MaChew94]

Really good looking team! I'm gonna suggest a few things, mainly to help you deal with some of threats you mentioned.

Firstly, in an enemy Venusaur matchup, Dragonite is your best bet: against a 232 HP Mega venu, you've got a 2HKO, while with multiscale it can't touch you:

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 276-325 (76.8 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Venusaur: 385-454 (107.2 - 126.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So that tidies that up. There's a plethora of things that C-band D-nite destroys; it has unholy damage. Watch out for Togekiss though; I know this sounds odd, but I landed 2 flinches with Air slash in a row, and had a 3HKO with multiscale - a volt switch or two can sort that out - a volt switch will 2HKO Starmie as well, one of your counters.

The next thing I'm gonna recommend, especially with the sp.def boost of sandstorms in Gen6 is a slightly more offensive T-tar, to bring the pain on Lati@s. If you go with 96 HP / 160 Attack / 252 Def you actually get a stat spread of 365 HP (pretty big for a bulk), 344 Attack with Jolly (can go adamant, bold, calm etc), 319 defence (again huge), sp.atk is irrelevant, but 236 Sp. Def (+50% in sandstorm) = 348 Sp. Def, and shitty speed. This is a longwinded way to say that T-tar, even when trained attack, is still bulky as hell, and can take so many hits, especially with leftovers.

On T-tar, your moveset is pretty odd, especially when an untrained attack stat of base 134 is much better than his sp. atk. So, replace Ice beam < Ice Punch, for physical pressure, and Crunch > Pursuit. Now, what does this mean to the lati twins? Well, a Life Orb Latios, the attack one, is a 3HKO after leftovers with surf: (252 SpA Life Orb Latios Surf vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 172-203 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- 69.9% chance to 2HKO)

So, the most damage-y of the twins fails to OHKO with surf, even with a life orb. However, you have ice punch: (160 Atk Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 190-224 (63.5 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage) which deals much more damage, has a chance to freeze, and puts Lati on the ropes here; it can't reliably 2HKO with surf, and your T-tar can take those hits while reliably 2HKOing it. It'll switch out, coming back for a better fight. Enter, pursuit. Base, it deals (160 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 152-180 (50.8 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage), and this is doubled and prioritied on a switching out mon. With that damage, and the attack EVs, you can score an OHKO with one pursuit after it sees your T-tar switch in, since you get that switch priority.

Apologies for the messiness of that post, but the calcs were important; a slightly attack trained T-tar is still bulky as anything, can pack a huge punch with Ice punch, checking Gliscor and Landorus, and gives you a low health Starmie check and Lati@s check with pursuit, knocking out 3 of your counters listed, while still being the tanky dinosaur that it is.

Phew, again, apologies, there's a lot to take in there but felt the calcs were important. Next, I'd take Earthquake off your T-tar and give it stone edge. This is because it's the biggest T-flame/Charizard counter atm. I could bombard you with calcs again, but you get an OHKO with one stone edge while taking something like 13% of your health off a flare blitz/brave bird, plus recoil, plus sandstorm. So, you can knock off a massive counter to your Volcarona, while keeping EQ on E-drill for Heatran; especially with a choice scarf, you'll outspeed it and OHKO it, dealing around 160% of it's health if it's Sp. Def trained, so around 110% if it's Defence trained. An easy OHKO.

I like the volcarona set tbh, I don't have much experience with her, so can't recommend that or the set you've posted. As far as I can see, the changes to your T-tar are the most important here, as you can threaten bulky psychics with pursuit that otherwise stall you.

Of your threat list, I've dealt with a few off those changes. Mega Lopunny is nothing to be afraid of if your D-nite is full health:

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lopunny: 379-447 (139.8 - 164.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
VS
252 Atk Lopunny Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 120-142 (37.1 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - 2HKO without Multiscale.

Yeah, the only thing I can see giving you trouble is Sableye, especially mega, as it can recover and burn. For this, I'd recommend using Rotom, as it doesn't mind a burn, and trying to paralyse it or burn it yourself with WoW. Otherwise, a strong fiery dance can give it hell; remember, sableye has fuck all damage; use that to your advantage. Off the top of my head, as long as you protect your sweepers, this team should go far! Good luck with the changes, hope I helped :)

 

[Liepard]

Thanks for your suggestions, MaChew. :D I haven't been able to test them out in battle yet, but those calcs looks very promising. I never made the connection that Ice Punch could hurt more than Ice Beam (I was just following the recommended move set; but you're right, with that attack investment, Tyranitar should have an easier time.) And having him be able to take out Psychics is definitely going to help. I'm still a bit concerned about Lopunny, just because switching Dragonite into it or if it switches into me with Fake Out usually means that Multiscale doesn't last, but then I probaley just need to play smartly around it and Dragonite can do the job.

Anyways, I'll be trying out the new Tyranitar set and you're suggestions to get rid of my threats. Thanks again.

 

[MaChew94]

Not a problem! The thing with D-nite is, even with a STAB aerial ace, outrage does the same damage. Sure, A-Ace never misses, but your moveset is the best it can be. Stats are: Outrage = 120 Base + 50% (60) Stab = 180. Aerial Ace is 60 Base + 50% (30) stab x 2 for super effective = 180. Because your team is so weak to fighting, your D-nite should be used to switch into them. Sure, most carry ice punch, but as long as Multiscale is intact, or you've burnt them, or D-nite is just bulky as fuck, he can be used as your flying (but not so flying) type. Just try to keep that M-scale up. As you say, Fake out can ruin your combo, and kill your D-nite. Try playing around with Mega Venu for loppuny; Sure, ice hurts it, but only 1/2 because of thick fat, and you can heal or poison it. Perhaps consider a back-up psychic move, especially if you're worried about loppuny so much, because fighting does really wreck your team: x4 T-Tar, x2 E-drill, = x8 weakness. That's two KOs if their loppuny sets up. So, bear that in mind; though fighting is quite uncommon, it's worth packing checks to it. Other than that, you're good to go! Glad I could help :)

 

[tcr]

Hey dude, pretty cool team! While I myself much prefer Squirtle / Blastoise as my Gen 1 starter, Venusaur is pretty cool too. As you said, you have a p big weakness to Latios, who can just spam Draco Meteor with ease, and can come in on Venusaur, Dragonite locked into Fire Punch / Earthquake, and Rotom-W, while you can't really do anything about it. You also don't really have a GREAT answer to late game Talonflame, as Rotom-W without any sort of recovery (other than Rest) can spam without consequence. First off, swapping Crunch out for Pursuit on Tyranitar lets you trap things like Starmie, Latios, and retreating Talonflame. This means that Tyranitar is a much more effective pivot, as once Stealth Rock is up there really isn't much you are going to do. No Latios is going to stay in on Tyranitar and just eat a Crunch, no Talonflame is going to stay in and possibly eat a Stone Edge. Pursuit lets you deal sweet damage to them, and can seriously limit Talonflame's survivability.

Next, I'm going to suggest running Bug Buzz on Volcarona over Giga Drain. Bug Buzz is one of the best STABs to just spam, and with Roost you don't really need Giga Drain (especially with Venusaur and Rotom-w, the coverage really just isn't needed). Besides, the 2 other Rock-types that are really relevant in OU are Tyranitar and Mega-Diancie, who you hit harder with Bug Buzz on Ttar, and you are still OHKOed by Mega-Diancie, whom you fail to OHKO at +0 anyway. Bug Buzz also lets you set up on Venusaur and kill it, eliminating that problem.

Lastly, I really don't think that HP Fire is necessary on Venusaur, as you have Volcarona who can set up on Ferrothorn. There's no need to lure it out, as it doesn't hinder anything. On the other hand, Heatran is a difficult Pokemon for your team, as nothing on your team really appreciates a burn and your only answer to it is Tyranitar and Excadrill. I think that running Earthquake will help you to lure in Heatran, something that actually impedes Volcarona from sweeping. Anyway, I hope that this helped you a bit, nice solid team you have here.

 

[Liepard]

MaChew94 Alright, I will try that out with Dragonite. Usually when I have to deal with a fighting type I'd go with Venusaur for a Sludge Bomb, but even that was a bit dangerous because if I was facing something like Conk with Guts, it could really mess with me since Sludge Bomb poisons more often than one would expect. I don't think I'd be able to fit a Psychic move anywhere just because I don't think any of my team has access to a good one aside from HP Psychic, but I will definitely try to fight Lopunny with Venusaur and see where that goes.

Amaura Thanks. (Although I'm not a dude just for a record, I'm a girl, but it's fine, Liepard's not the most obvious username for telling the difference. ) :) Yeah, Venusaur has been my "main 'mon" ever since I got Leafgreen as a kid. Blastoise is fun though; I have one on X in a supporting role for another team.
But anyways, nice, I didn't think about using Pursuit for Talonflame as well. Usually, I would have Dragonite come in and 2KO it with Extreme Speed, but aside from that I didn't have much of another option if Wash was down. I already added Pursuit based on Chew's suggestion in preparation for my play testing of the new chances, but being able to nail Talonflame with that is going to help.
I'll give Volcarona Bug Buzz as well. I'm guessing Bug Buzz would still do at least a solid amount of damage to Water types anyways once she sets up. I'm not 100% sure about if I can replace HP Fire though. While Ferrothorn isn't really an issue and I do set up on it with Volcarona occasionally, I also have been using it to get the rare Chesnaught. Nevertheless, I'll still try it out and see how it goes. Thanks for your advice.