I have a question, should I use Thundurus or Thundurus-T?
Thank you!
Thank you!
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VGC 2015: Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer
- Thread starter idiotfrommars
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Thundurus is usually the better forme due to its ability in Prankster. Thundurus-T could be used if you are running HO Rain however. In conclusion, 9 times out of 10, Regular Thundurus > Thundurus-T
Thundurus-I is more common than herpes because you can almost mindlessly spam Thunder Wave with little to no consequence. Prankster Thunder Wave is pretty much 90% of the reason it's used and why every single team has at least 1 Ground or Electric type.
Thundy-T eats its Incarnate form for breakfast, is a tad slower, but is usually used for its absurd damage output. Grass resist + Electric immune makes it a staple for Rain teams as well.
I prefer Therian myself but Incarnate is generally better simply because of Prankster Thunder Wave.
you could post a rate my team of what you have
For Mamoswine, is AV a thing at all? PGL is showing primarily Scarf, with LO being the next most common. Season 12 it ran Sash about as much as LO; Sash is hardly on the current S13 roster.
Icicle Crash also seems more prevalent over Icicle Spear; is the accuracy that preferrential over the inconsistent power? Not sure how multi-hit move percentages work (ie how common is 2 hits, 3 hits, etc).
Mishimono very much tempted me with Mamo+Char-Y.
Icicle Crash also seems more prevalent over Icicle Spear; is the accuracy that preferrential over the inconsistent power? Not sure how multi-hit move percentages work (ie how common is 2 hits, 3 hits, etc).
Mishimono very much tempted me with Mamo+Char-Y.
It doesn't sound terrible so it could be a thing? I've personally never heard or seen it before to be honest so I wouldn't know what spread it would run. The base 60 s.def kind of hurts though as neutral nature and no EV investment means assault vest only boosts your s.def from 80 to 120
The one I used was Choice Scarfed I haven't tested AV but it does seem like a cool option
The bulk isn't too bad... with the right spread, it dodges a 2HKO from 252+ Mega Gardevoir's Hyper Voice, and with a sprinkle of Def it can't be OHKO'd by Jolly MegaMence's Double Edge. Ice Shard helps with the Speed.
Mamoswine @ Assault Vest
Adamant, 76 HP, 252 Atk, 44 Def, 132 Sp. Def, 4 Speed.
Ability: Thick Fat
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Mamoswine: 81-96 (41.5 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Mega Gardevoir Psychic vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Mamoswine: 84-99 (43 - 50.7%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 76 HP / 44 Def Mamoswine: 102-121 (52.3 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Mamoswine: 88-105 (45.1 - 53.8%) -- 37.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 76 HP / 44 Def Mamoswine: 163-193 (83.5 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
20 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 76 HP / 44 Def Mamoswine: 139-165 (71.2 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO [mixed Mega Mence]
252 SpA Aerilate Mega Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Mamoswine: 58-70 (29.7 - 35.8%) -- 38.6% chance to 3HKO [lol'd]
-1 252+ Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 172-208 (101.1 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Mamoswine in Sun: 152-180 (77.9 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Mamoswine in Sun: 176-210 (90.2 - 107.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Heat Wave vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Mamoswine in Sun: 98-116 (50.2 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mamoswine Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 176-208 (115 - 135.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Mamoswine: 138-164 (70.7 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 76 HP / 44 Def Mamoswine: 174-206 (89.2 - 105.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 102-120 (61 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Heatran Heat Wave vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Mamoswine: 54-66 (27.6 - 33.8%) -- Miniscule chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Mamoswine: 126-150 (64.6 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shuca Berry Heatran: 134-158 (67.6 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Mamoswine: 146-172 (74.8 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 236 HP / 116 Def Thundurus: 186-218 (101 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Mamoswine: 147-174 (75.3 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 176-210 (104.7 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 84-102 (50 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Gardevoir Psychic vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Mamoswine: 84-99 (43 - 50.7%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 76 HP / 44 Def Mamoswine: 102-121 (52.3 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Mamoswine: 88-105 (45.1 - 53.8%) -- 37.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 76 HP / 44 Def Mamoswine: 163-193 (83.5 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
20 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 76 HP / 44 Def Mamoswine: 139-165 (71.2 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO [mixed Mega Mence]
252 SpA Aerilate Mega Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Mamoswine: 58-70 (29.7 - 35.8%) -- 38.6% chance to 3HKO [lol'd]
-1 252+ Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 172-208 (101.1 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Mamoswine in Sun: 152-180 (77.9 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Mamoswine in Sun: 176-210 (90.2 - 107.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Heat Wave vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Mamoswine in Sun: 98-116 (50.2 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mamoswine Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 176-208 (115 - 135.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Mamoswine: 138-164 (70.7 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 76 HP / 44 Def Mamoswine: 174-206 (89.2 - 105.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 102-120 (61 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Heatran Heat Wave vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Mamoswine: 54-66 (27.6 - 33.8%) -- Miniscule chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Mamoswine: 126-150 (64.6 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shuca Berry Heatran: 134-158 (67.6 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Mamoswine: 146-172 (74.8 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 236 HP / 116 Def Thundurus: 186-218 (101 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 76 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Mamoswine: 147-174 (75.3 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 176-210 (104.7 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 84-102 (50 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Oh I know it was Scarfed, I quite clearly remember you kicking my ass with it lol. I've got 3 mons right now that could run Scarf; the question is who needs it the most and who can run not-Scarf without being useless. :P
Scarf Mamo could work too, -1 Adamant Scarf Mamo outruns and OHKO's MegaMence so does it really need to tank it..? xD
I guess the main remaining question is "Crash vs Spear?"; calcs suggest Crash is needed for KO's that 2/3 hit Spear would miss, but Ice Shard does go miles toward picking off slivers of HP plus we do have chip damage and shit. Plus, missing, I missed a lot of shit recently so acc is very appealing.
that AV Lando looks pretty good. Aout who should use the scarf I guess it really depends on the team and the members I dunno :P
I might just scrap my entire team. Would save me from finding and breeding a Mamoswine.
Just watch this and give me 3 good reasons why I should try making this team not suck.
BE6W-WWWW-WW35-4SZW
Good partners for Mega Metagross anyone? Preferrably something that beats Politoed + Ludicolo.
I'm thinking Togekiss, Rotom-H, Virizion, Our Lord and Savior Heracross, Suicune, stuff like that. Of course, I thought putting Rotom-H in front of a supportive Thundurus and a Sylveon was a good idea too, so it's probably a very bad idea. Might look around and see what other people use with Metagross...
I've used Metagross a bit with Hydreigon, double genies, Virizion, Arcanine, Milotic, Jellicent, Togekiss
Did i just make the Smogon trend AKA The Princess of VGC Virizion?
Good friend told me about this thread, I should probably follow it now just in case.
Anyway, I'm making a VGC team (the one with the pentagon only ruleset right?)
I need some suggestions for my cresselia. I had a hard time looking for Cresselia spreads and I was thinking of running modest.
Nothing much details why I wanted modest other than I think that boosting nature is beneficial, (please bear with me as I'm still
familiarizing with the details) and that my team has its fair share of support mons so I guess running this with both offense and defense would be helpful?
P.S. I actually patterned the team from the common mons that people use on Worlds. So pardon for my lack of creativity!
I did some calcs and I'm not sure if these are worth noting.
My Cresselia Modest would have this spread:
92 HP/ 134 Def/ 124 SpA/ 160 SpD
Meanwhile,
Let me know what you think of it. :) Sorry if it's quite lengthy.
I can post the teammates I plan on running with cress soon.
Anyway, I'm making a VGC team (the one with the pentagon only ruleset right?)
I need some suggestions for my cresselia. I had a hard time looking for Cresselia spreads and I was thinking of running modest.
Nothing much details why I wanted modest other than I think that boosting nature is beneficial, (please bear with me as I'm still
familiarizing with the details) and that my team has its fair share of support mons so I guess running this with both offense and defense would be helpful?
P.S. I actually patterned the team from the common mons that people use on Worlds. So pardon for my lack of creativity!
I did some calcs and I'm not sure if these are worth noting.
My Cresselia Modest would have this spread:
92 HP/ 134 Def/ 124 SpA/ 160 SpD
124 SpA is the minimum EV investment that guarantees OHKO against Landorus-T which I expect to see mostly on VGC 2015.
Calcs
124+ SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 168-200 (101.8 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Other damage calcs
124+ SpA Cresselia Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 122-146 (55.2 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Calcs
124+ SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 168-200 (101.8 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Other damage calcs
124+ SpA Cresselia Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 122-146 (55.2 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Meanwhile,
Defenses 92 HP/ 134 Def/ 160 SpD were tested:
Mega Kangaskhan:
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 92 HP / 134 Def Cresselia: 102-123 (49.2 - 59.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
Heatran:
252+ SpA Heatran Heat Wave vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 64-76 (30.9 - 36.7%) -- 61.9% chance to 3HKO
Mega Charizard Y:
244+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia in Sun: 150-177 (72.4 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Hydreigon:
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 135-164 (65.2 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 156-186 (75.3 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 109-130 (52.6 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 126-148 (60.8 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tar:
252 SpA Tyranitar Dark Pulse vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 80-96 (38.6 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage
252+ SpA Life Orb Tyranitar Dark Pulse vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 112-135 (54.1 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
Aegislash:
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 116-140 (56 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
100+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 108-128 (52.1 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega Kangaskhan:
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 92 HP / 134 Def Cresselia: 102-123 (49.2 - 59.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
Heatran:
252+ SpA Heatran Heat Wave vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 64-76 (30.9 - 36.7%) -- 61.9% chance to 3HKO
Mega Charizard Y:
244+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia in Sun: 150-177 (72.4 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Hydreigon:
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 135-164 (65.2 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 156-186 (75.3 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 109-130 (52.6 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 126-148 (60.8 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tar:
252 SpA Tyranitar Dark Pulse vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 80-96 (38.6 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage
252+ SpA Life Orb Tyranitar Dark Pulse vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 112-135 (54.1 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
Aegislash:
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 116-140 (56 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
100+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 92 HP / 160 SpD Cresselia: 108-128 (52.1 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Let me know what you think of it. :) Sorry if it's quite lengthy.
I can post the teammates I plan on running with cress soon.
A Calm nature with the spread 92 HP / 132 Def / 212 SpA / 36 SpD / 4 Spe would give you the same stats (with an extra speed point) and still have 32 evs leftover. If you want a modest Cresselia they usually run max special attack.
It would help to know if your item is Sitrus or leftovers since those make a big difference in damage calculations. For defending against Mega Kangaskhan you should use Double Edge since it actually outdamages Sucker Punch by a fair amount.
A Cresselia spread I used for a while was 220 Hp / 68 Def / 188 SpA / 28 SpD / 4 Spe with a Sitrus berry.
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 220 HP / 28+ SpD Cresselia: 120-144 (53.8 - 64.5%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 220 HP / 68 Def Cresselia: 123-145 (55.1 - 65%) -- 5.8% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
188 SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 164-196 (99.3 - 118.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Gives a very high chance to avoid the 2hko from Kangaskhan and Aegislash along with minimizing Sand damage and killing Lando-T in one hit almost all the time.
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 220 HP / 68 Def Cresselia: 123-145 (55.1 - 65%) -- 5.8% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
188 SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 164-196 (99.3 - 118.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Gives a very high chance to avoid the 2hko from Kangaskhan and Aegislash along with minimizing Sand damage and killing Lando-T in one hit almost all the time.
Hi, thanks.
That's the trouble I'm not sure if I should go for sitrus or leftovers or even mental herb but I think mental isn't used as much during the worlds anyway.
Why is it that the 188 SpA doesn't guarantee an OHKO on Landy-T? Is the cresselia you used the calm one? So a guaranteed hit isn't always preferred when the odds of getting OHKO is 90% and above?
So I guess we can't have both bulk and offense, there has to be a trade-off I assume? I would love to stick with the max SpA but I don't want to just stick 252 on HP, I wanted some distributed EVs on other stats, is that possible?
I personally prefer Sitrus berry on Cresselia because it lets you invest more into offenses and maintain bulk.
Yes I used a Calm one. A lot of spreads used for VGC just minimize the chances of surviving and not killing things so you can get more out of other stats.
The world champion actually just used a spread of 244 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD with a Quiet nature since Cresselia's defenses are high enough it usually yields better bulk on it to just invest in HP.
I personally think that Jolly is the best, as fully physically attacking Rayquaza seems like the best set, and it wants to fully use its great speed.
I'd wait a bit longer. Jolly isn't bad but mixed also seems like it might have potential. On the other hand, I'm sure you can pick up another rayquaza later through our weekend tournaments.
About how much Speed does 'bulky' Thundurus-I run? Yes, I know it probably varies a lot like most Thundy spreads. Smogdex says Calm + 28 Speed EVs to outrun Breloom.
'Bulky' Timid Thundurus-I are actually quite common in my experience and a lot faster than the Breloom Speed Tier. They also tend to Speed creep each other to Taunt first...
It's not easy to give you a specific number here.
Well damn. I have Timid, and I was aiming bulky on it. Timid and 28 Speed outruns neutral 95 (Adamant Arcanine, stuff like that), max Speed Gyarados (Remember, Mega Gyarados has godly bulk and Stone Edge), and by extension Adamant/Careful Landog; not that it means much since I don't have HP Ice.
I somehow have been running this retarded 252 HP / 4 Sp. Def / 252 Speed set and it's obviously not work working / the root of many problems.
Here's what I have and what it does; if there's anything relevent I can adjust for that might be a better question:
Thundurus-I @ Sitrus Berry
Timid, 252 HP, 120 Def, 108 Sp. Def, 28 Speed
Ability: Prankster
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Swagger / Protect
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 108 SpD Thundurus: 164-192 (88.1 - 103.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Thundurus: 189-223 (101.6 - 119.8%) [Sitrus Berry saves you from the KO]
0 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 102-122 (50.4 - 60.3%) -- 87.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery [Sitrus is a 3HKO]
I'm worried that 28 Speed is simply inadequate. Next relevent benchmark is 68 Speed (154; outruns neutral 100's, ties with Max Speed Excadrill), but it detracts a fair bit from bulk.
I don't know your Thundurus' IVs or your team, but there are two things I'd like to point out.
1. Do you have Icy Wind or Tailwind on your team? That would give you a wider range of Speed tiers to consider when EVing your Thundurus.
2. Many monsters Speed creep Adamant Landorus-T (143) and anything that Speed creeps that same Landorus-T (144). I think that your 28 EVs are well-placed.
(3. I don't think that Mega Gyarados and Arcanine are a big deal at this point in the format, but then again... I don't know your team.)
EDIT: Something seems off with your defensive investment to me, but I can't calc right now. I'll do it later, if I have a chance.
1) No, Thundy is the only Speed control I can squeeze in without major team makeovers.
2) ok, I'll try it and if I get out-Taunted too much I'll go apeshit and increase Speed.
3) Offensive Gyarados / Arcanine are very, very rare and irrelevent, yes. It's kind of a residual paranoia as my previous team was decimated by Gyarados, especially Mega.
4) Also I'm retarded, I do have HP Ice. 31/0/30/31/31/31; the above spread I posted does add to 508 and consider 30 Def.
Will wing it and test when PGL isn't under maintence.
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