VGC 2020 Series 6 Viability Thread

[Maltrab]

VGC VIABILITY RANKING
SERIES 6​

Welcome to the VGC Series 6 Viability Ranking project, where we rank the viability of Pokemon in VGC Series 6. The floor will always be open to discussion, and after a period of time (roughly every two weeks), the viability rankings council will vote on any of the Pokemon being discussed and post the results and reasoning here. A Pokemon moving from UR to Ranked must receive at least 5 votes of "yes" in order to be Ranked. The rankings and tier descriptions have been assigned to describe each Pokemon's state within the metagame, and the Pokemon in each tier are listed in alphabetical order. Please note that we vote on these tier lists before any tournaments occurred.

When making a nomination for a shift in the VR, many things can improve the quality of your post and thus the likelihood of it convincing the VR council. Calcs, reasons why the current metagame is different for the Pokemon, replays, and discussion on how the Pokemon interacts with other relevant Pokemon are all potentially solid inclusions. Additionally, you may want to discuss usage stats as part of your argument, but don't base your entire argument on the usage of a Pokemon - usage and viability are not the same thing.

>>VR Council<<

These users have the ultimate say on shifts in Viability Rankings tiers. The council consists of experienced players who have different styles and perspectives to offer to the table when deciding the strength of any individual Pokemon.

DomarpVGC
JashSmash
Luckyboy123
Netherioius
PinkiePat

>>S Tier<<

Pokemon that dominate a large portion of the metagame. They are either quite powerful or offer great team support, and can fit on almost any team. You can't really go wrong by using these Pokemon.

Amoonguss
Arcanine
Primarina


>>A Tier<<

Pokemon that are generally strong and can easily be placed on a variety of teams, but don't have the same level of prowess as the threats in Tier 1.

Charizard
Clefairy
Dracozolt
Duraludon
Durant
Dusclops
Grimmsnarl
Lapras
Milotic
Porygon-Z
Rotom-Wash
Talonflame
Terrakion
Urshiple Rapid Strike
Urshifu Single Strike

>>B Tier<<

Pokemon that are generally strong and can easily be placed on a variety of teams, but don't have the same level of prowess as the threats in Tier 1.

Alolan Marowak
Alolan Persian
Azumarill
Braviary
Chandelure
Coalossal
Cobalion
Comfey
Corviknight
Dhelmise
Ferrothorn
Gastrodon
Gengar
Gigalith
Goodra
Gothitelle
Hatterene
Kingdra
Krookodile
Politoed
Rhyperior
Rotom-Heat
Rotom-Mow
Sableye
Snorlax
Sylveon
Volcarona

>>C Tier<<

Pokemon that are generally strong, but less powerful than those in B Tier or Pokemon that require a decent amount of support or a specific team style to function well, but are defining pieces to said archetypes.

Alolan Ninetales
Araquanid
Blastoise
Bronzong
Butterfree
Conkeldurr
Diggersby
Dracovish
Dragalge
Escavalier
Galarian Weezing
Hitmontop
Hydreigon
Inteleon
Jellicent
Liepard
Ludicolo
Mamoswine
Mudsdale
Ninetales
Pelipper
Raichu
Reuniclus
Roserade
Sneasel
Torracat
Toxtricity
Vanilluxe
Virizion

>>D tier<<

This tier contains either Pokemon that have broad applications on a variety of teams, but are simply less effective than those in higher tiers, or are only particularly useful for certain team styles.

Alcremie
Alolan Raichu
Flygon
Greedent
Heracross
Klefki
Mandibuzz
Meowstic-M
Passimian
Pincurchin
Scizor
Scrafty
Togetic
Tsareena
Weavile

 

[Maltrab]

The first Pokemon I think should be discussed again is Talonflame. I think we underestimated it as a Tailwind Setter for Hyper Offense. Thoughts?

 

[Ace Emerald]

The first Pokemon I think should be discussed again is Talonflame. I think we underestimated it as a Tailwind Setter for Hyper Offense. Thoughts?

In early meta, I think its potentially A tier. I've seen it on a lot of HO teams and it performs consistently.

I think Clefable needs to be ranked in C. There are only 3 viable Follow Me users and it's better than togetic. Unaware + open item slot is interesting to play with, it's also the only follow me user that can be on the same team as the best TR setter, Dusclops.

 

[Maltrab]

In early meta, I think its potentially A tier. I've seen it on a lot of HO teams and it performs consistently.

I think Clefable needs to be ranked in C. There are only 3 viable Follow Me users and it's better than togetic. Unaware + open item slot is interesting to play with, it's also the only follow me user that can be on the same team as the best TR setter, Dusclops.

Hmm, you're probably right. I guess we overlooked it though Amoongus can also be used with Dusclops.

 

[DomarpVGC]

Personally feel that roserade is better than c tier. Would probably say b tier. Base 90 speed in this format is pretty impressive and fast sleep powder has proven to be terrifying. It's also one of the few offensive grass types in the format and can threaten the many fairy and water types that are dominating.

 

[Ace Emerald]

Hmm, you're probably right. I guess we overlooked it though Amoongus can also be used with Dusclops.

Amoonguss is definitely the better pokemon, and pairs well with Dusclops. But I have seen a LOT of safety goggles + taunt, which is really hard to come back from if your goal is hard TR.

 

[Maltrab]

Amoonguss is definitely the better pokemon, and pairs well with Dusclops. But I have seen a LOT of safety goggles + taunt, which is really hard to come back from if your goal is hard TR.

Yes, that is a fair point. I'll definitely make it a high priority to discuss along with Talonflame and Tsareena.

 

[R-B-Y]

Talon seems a bit above the B tier imo. It’s literally the fastest viable mon, the best tailwind setter, has taunt, and imo puts a lot more work in and is used a lot more than say chandy or krookodile. At least for me my trick room leads straight up fear talonflame. I’ve started using mental herb on amoonguss lmao. Should probably be A.

This is a bit of a take but for the moment Dracozolt should be S. Literally nothing bar rhyperior can switch into it, not even krook or gastro, because the dragon claw annihilates them. Ferro is all good until you see the fire fang. Seeing a dracozolt in team preview induces dread in me, even with a will-o-wisp rotom heat and lightning rod charm raichu on my team. That might just be me though.

It’s also a bit of the reason why I think rotom-h should be A. Arc is the better fire type, but rotom’s flying and electric resistance lets it put in more work vs dracozolt, talonflame, and Charizard, which are pretty scary current meta. It feels, anecdotally, pretty similar to rotom-w in the amount of work it puts in.

small gripe it feels a bit weird to have a mon as team soloing as escavalier in C but yeah it needs trick room as per the definition of C

 

[Maltrab]

Talon seems a bit above the B tier imo. It’s literally the fastest viable mon, the best tailwind setter, has taunt, and imo puts a lot more work in and is used a lot more than say chandy or krookodile. At least for me my trick room leads straight up fear talonflame. I’ve started using mental herb on amoonguss lmao. Should probably be A.

This is a bit of a take but for the moment Dracozolt should be S. Literally nothing bar rhyperior can switch into it, not even krook or gastro, because the dragon claw annihilates them. Ferro is all good until you see the fire fang. Seeing a dracozolt in team preview induces dread in me, even with a will-o-wisp rotom heat and lightning rod charm raichu on my team. That might just be me though.

It’s also a bit of the reason why I think rotom-h should be A. Arc is the better fire type, but rotom’s flying and electric resistance lets it put in more work vs dracozolt, talonflame, and Charizard, which are pretty scary current meta. It feels, anecdotally, pretty similar to rotom-w in the amount of work it puts in.

small gripe it feels a bit weird to have a mon as team soloing as escavalier in C but yeah it needs trick room as per the definition of C

Yeah, Talonflame will be one of the first one's we discuss again after the tournaments this weekend. This was all done last Monday through Friday. I know it got some votes for A so it was close, but ended up in B.

 

[smogon account]

Silvally: Unranked->C Tier

Silvally is often outclassed by other pokemon just because of its jack-of-all-trades status, but as the only ___-type parting shot user and the only pokemon with a base 120 ___ type attack, sometimes it's what a team needs to function. Inteleon/Silvally swamp pledge also seems viable right now, and I think that's enough to merit C tier.

 

[Sizzle & Snom]

I see Dracovish as a huge problem. A lot of teams are going to be forced to run Gastrodon because of it, and Choice Scarf seems really good right now with the meta being kind of slow. Fishious rend does a ton of damage, and imo should be placed higher.

 

[Ace Emerald]

I see Dracovish as a huge problem. A lot of teams are going to be forced to run Gastrodon because of it, and Choice Scarf seems really good right now with the meta being kind of slow. Fishious rend does a ton of damage, and imo should be placed higher.

Eh I disagree, C seems appropriate. We're in a meta with a bunch of bulky water types and amoonguss, vish has been underwhelming so far.

 

[R-B-Y]

I see Dracovish as a huge problem. A lot of teams are going to be forced to run Gastrodon because of it, and Choice Scarf seems really good right now with the meta being kind of slow. Fishious rend does a ton of damage, and imo should be placed higher.

thing is with vish having an amoonguss just kinda invalidates it, it doesn't do very well maxed, and no protect and only one move when scarfed means you can just kinda dance around it, set up speed control and turn it basically useless. Zolt has none of these problems really.

 

[Pyritie]

I see Dracovish as a huge problem. A lot of teams are going to be forced to run Gastrodon because of it, and Choice Scarf seems really good right now with the meta being kind of slow. Fishious rend does a ton of damage, and imo should be placed higher.

water types are everywhere right now and can deal with it well (primarina, lapras, rotom-w, etc), and redirection is also common, which also has the side effect of taking away the fishous rend doubling

 

[Maltrab]

We have moved Talonflame up to A tier. It’s ability to set Tailwind, provide fast Taunt, and be a decent flying type attacker is too good to pass up for Hyper Offense right now.

 

[The Chaotician]

I see Dracovish as a huge problem. A lot of teams are going to be forced to run Gastrodon because of it, and Choice Scarf seems really good right now with the meta being kind of slow. Fishious rend does a ton of damage, and imo should be placed higher.

I built a prospective team around Dracovish and can confirm comments from Ace Emerald, R-B-Y and Pyritie to the letter.

Urshifu needs another look in my opinion. Being able to hit through protect with a reduced number of counters and checks is absolutely brutal if taken advantage of properly. Essentially ignoring Intimidate and other Atk stat drops because Wicked Blow/Surging Strikes always crits can make it very difficult to playaround as well.

 

[Sizzle & Snom]

I built a prospective team around Dracovish and can confirm comments from Ace Emerald, R-B-Y, and Pyritie to the letter.

Urshifu needs another look in my opinion. Being able to hit through protect with a reduced number of counters and checks is absolutely brutal if taken advantage of properly. Essentially ignoring Intimidate and other Atk stat drops because Wicked Blow/Surging Strikes always crits can make it very difficult to play around as well.

Urshifu's already in A tier, and Urshifu-SS is easily defeated by primarina. as for Urshifu-RS, I agree that it's much stronger now that rillaboom and venu are gone. We'll have to see how they fare in S6.

 

[The Chaotician]

Urshifu's already in A tier, and Urshifu-SS is easily defeated by primarina. as for Urshifu-RS, I agree that it's much stronger now that rillaboom and venu are gone. We'll have to see how they fare in S6.

If you leave either Urshifu on the field when a Primarina comes in, it deserves to be KO'ed. /s

My point comes from the fact that the entirety of S-Rank is comprised of Support and Special Attackers. In my view, looking at A rank, Urshifu is one of the few with the immediate physical breaking power needed to compiment the S Ranked Pokemon WITHOUT NEEDING TO DYNAMAX (or rely on a choice scarf) - Aside from Terrakion. Talonflame, while physically based, seems to take on a different role (Tailwind!) to a breaker judging by comments above and own experience.

Terrakion suffers from similar issues as Dracovish e.g. bulky water heavy meta, without the advantages that Unseen Fist and Wicked Blow/Surging Strikes provide. I agree with your sentiment though, its very early and difficult to make any concrete decisions at this stage.

 

[Jashsmash]

If you leave either Urshifu on the field when a Primarina comes in, it deserves to be KO'ed. /s

My point comes from the fact that the entirety of S-Rank is comprised of Support and Special Attackers. In my view, looking at A rank, Urshifu is one of the few with the immediate physical breaking power needed to compiment the S Ranked Pokemon WITHOUT NEEDING TO DYNAMAX (or rely on a choice scarf) - Aside from Terrakion. Talonflame, while physically based, seems to take on a different role (Tailwind!) to a breaker judging by comments above and own experience.

Terrakion suffers from similar issues as Dracovish e.g. bulky water heavy meta, without the advantages that Unseen Fist and Wicked Blow/Surging Strikes provide. I agree with your sentiment though, its very early and difficult to make any concrete decisions at this stage.

Just being a strong physical attacker isn't really enough to automatically make something S tier. As of right now I think both Urshifu forms, while very threatening, are a little too easy to check by a significant portion of the metagame to be S tier. We don't want to be too hasty in moving things up to S, but we'll have to see how things shape up in the coming weeks before coming to a decision.

 

[The Chaotician]

Just being a strong physical attacker isn't really enough to automatically make something S tier. As of right now I think both Urshifu forms, while very threatening, are a little too easy to check by a significant portion of the metagame to be S tier. We don't want to be too hasty in moving things up to S, but we'll have to see how things shape up in the coming weeks before coming to a decision.

I fully understand your point - i wasn't suggesting that anything be moved in S, just that if there was potential to split the lower ranks into +/- Urshifu would be a good candidate to consider for A+, considering how it perfroms vs. some of the other threats its currently grouped with.

 

[Jashsmash]

I fully understand your point - i wasn't suggesting that anything be moved in S, just that if there was potential to split the lower ranks into +/- Urshifu would be a good candidate to consider for A+, considering how it perfroms vs. some of the other threats its currently grouped with.

Splitting in to +/- tiers is also something we wanted to wait a little bit to do, but I agree that Urshifu will belong in A+ once that does happen.

 

[Maltrab]

Splitting in to +/- tiers is also something we wanted to wait a little bit to do, but I agree that Urshifu will belong in A+ once that does happen.

I second this. Both are very strong right now. We hope to get them split up in the upcoming weeks.

 

[Netherious]

I second this. Both are very strong right now. We hope to get them split up in the upcoming weeks.

To reiterate this sentiment, we wanted to have a strong preliminary tier list that we refine as the meta does as well. As more online events come to light and the meta settles, we will see who truly deserves +/- rating. Let's keep up the discussion and keep asking the difficult questions so we can truly make this a wonderful community resource.

 

[R-B-Y]

take number 2: Azumarill, when the + - ratings arrive, should be B+: its belly drum set kinda sucks now with dynamax just tanking the aqua jets, and without it it’s kinda outclassed by prim, lacking spread moves and being physical, but it still holds a few very good niches. Namely, it’s increased physical bulk lets it avoid the 2hko from banded urshifu, which is huge for something it’s meant to counter. It hits harder, and has access to good priority which prim doesn’t, and occasionally will generate a free turn from something taunting it out of fear of belly drum, which is minor but a plus anyway. The big thing is the 2hko from band ursh: the role compression of being able to do that and being a fat water is really good in my books. In its effectiveness azu stands out from most of B: I’d put it alongside ferro, sylveon, and corv.

oh yeah and with it winning the women’s cup tsareena should def be B

 

[pilgrim pancakes]

quick thoughts: Ferrothorn, Weavile, Tsareena, Sneasel, Meowstic-M and Hydregeion should all be raised. Clefable should be added. Milotic can be lowered.