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VGC Classics Format Discussion

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Radio Free C-Side

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The VGC Classics team tour is planned to have signups open a week or two after Worlds concludes. As always, we plan to rotate some of the formats, and I would love to hear everyone's input. Right now, the general structure is as follows:

8 Formats Total
1x VGC 2013
1x Gen 6 Format
1x Gen 7 Format
1x VGC 2019
1x Gen 8 Format
1x VGC 2022
1x Gen 9 Format

As you can see, that's only 7 formats, with multiple being undecided between multiple options. I already have ideas in mind of what to fill it out with, but I'd like to hear from others. What would the ideal lineup for you look like? What format deserves to fill the 8th slot? Feel free to suggest other changes should you feel they're warranted.
 
I think doing vgc 15, 17, and 19 from gens 6-7 make a lot of sense. It gives us one regional, national, and gs cup format across the two gens, which at least to me feel the most similar mechanically.

Gen 8 is a weird one because I know it was both a big uptick in VGC's playbase but also we didn't really have major events in the same way that gen other than 2022. I think it'd be cool to see series 2 or 3 but tbh I'd really like to see it removed lmao.

For gen 9 - anything but reg F. I think reg H would be fun but I know this gen was especially polarizing
 
1x VGC 2010
1x VGC 2013
1x VGC 2015
1x VGC 2017
1x VGC 2019 (Ultra)
1x VGC 2021 Series 7
1x VGC 2022
1x Reg C/F

I could see slashing the 1st Gen 8 slot to run double SV, in which case, running 1 of C/F and then 1 of G/I is fine, but these probably make enough sense
 
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In my view the formats should be:

VGC 2009 or 2010
  • The gen 4 VGC community on smogon has been active in the past year, I think this slot will be competitive especially as it may attract oldgens DOU talent as the was the case in VDL a couple of months ago.
  • Both formats are good so I wouldn't mind which one is included, despite 2009 being featured last year in Classics, I think it would be reasonable to add it again given that 2010 was included in VDL and now the Smogon Oldgens VGC Circuit.
VGC 2013
  • A definitive classic VGC format, I don't think this slot should ever change.
VGC 2014 or 2015
  • I lean towards VGC 2014 in terms personal enjoyment, but I think 2015 is a valid choice given that 2014 was the slot last year (just please not 2016).
VGC 2017 or 2018
  • Both great formats, there should surely be 2 gen 7 VGC formats in the tour given the popularity of the gen.
VGC 2019
  • zee format.
VGC 2022
  • I think only 1 SwSh format is fine, SV is more popular to my knowledge.
SV Reg C or Reg H and Reg I or Reg G
  • Not sure which formats are most popular but I think these would be reasonable choices for SV.

I think it is also worth discussing if the tournament should expand to 8 teams (or 10 slots) this year, maybe we can decide based on how the signups look?
 
My votes for formats would be tldr 09, 13, 14, 17, 19, 21 series 9, 22, 23 any reg

09 - yes, it was interesting to learn and should return. I think such an old format with so little info would be beneficial to repeat so we can learn from what was played last time.

10- eh, I've been paying some attention to it but I think 09 would be better since 09 doesn't have restricteds.

13 - greatest clown fiesta format ever

14/15 - toss up between these 2, both formats have specialists but seemed like there was enough depth to make it work either way

16 - plz no

17 - staple format and should always be on the roster

18 - just seems worse than 17 or 19 imo, can't have all 3 and those formats are popular

19 - overall ends up being a popular format so should return imo

SWSH - 22 should be a given imo, secondary slot could be given to SCVI but I think series 9 would be cool again since it's as expansive as the dex gets without getting restricteds

SCVI - Reg C or D would be fine, ideally should be one of the earlier formats bc otherwise it's not really Classic status yet imo (although I love double restricted so if you guys wanted to outvote me and put double restricted in I wouldn't be mad at all!)
 
Would love to see these:
09 - was a huge hit last year, even amongst people who never played before
13 - no brainer, pretty much the definitive BW format with a huge playerbase
15 - last year we had 14 which i enjoyed but i think the 15 spotlight ladder brought out a lot of enthusiasts, i'd be down to alternate these two metas year to year. won't be too mad if we decide on 14 tho. could maybe even get away with both? both is fine.
17 - one of the most beloved formats in the history of the game with a lot of balance. throws a regional dex meta into the mix
19 - greatest format of all time. great diversity of strong teams and still room for techs and optimization.
22 - it's a good format and an important year for the history of the game, don't think we should be cutting gen 8 formats yet

don't really care what the last two metas are, 14 + something from SV is probably most ideal to me over a random gen 8 series or a second SV format, one is definitely enough
 
I believe all 6 past generations should receive a format. It's a celebration of the history of VGC after all. This means Gen. IV should definitely get representation, and then the two bonus formats will be between 7/8/9.

Gen. IV - 2009
I think both formats have depth in a Bo3 context (2009 wins for Bo1). Since 2010 has seen a lot of attention this year between Vintage Double League and in-person tournaments in four separate regions (New York, Ohio, DMV, and Kanto), 2009 should get more attention for Classics PL.

Gen. V - 2013
2013 should always be part of Classics PL. 2011 is the worst format of all, and 2012 is a downgrade.

Gen. VI - 2014 / 2015
2016 is terrible. I think 2014 is more loved than 2015 but both have good teambuilding depth. I like Adi's idea of balancing one regional, one national, and one GS format, so perhaps 2014 + 2018 or 2015 + 2017.

Gen. VII - 2017 / 2018 & 2019-U
I don't have an opinion on 2018, but I think 2017 is a well-balanced format that's beloved by many oldheads. IIRC 2018 and 2019-U were both extremely popular on ladder and show that Gen. VII deserves two slots.

Gen. VIII - 2020-1/2/3 & 2022-12
Series 6 and 10 are bad. Series 4, 5, 8, 11 feel like lesser versions of their alternatives (7/9 and 12). Series 13 allowing Mythicals does not feel like it fits into VGC. Series 12 should get picked because it actually had a World Championships, leaving one of the other two formats. I have personal concerns about Series 7/9 having Dynamax roulette with Eleki and FWG cores. That leaves Series 1/2/3, which are fairly similar and I'd leave it to staff to pick.

Gen. IX - 2023-C/2024-F
I think that the Restricted formats were too recent. It might be negativity bias, but I remember a lot of dislike for Reg. H. Plus, Reg. H is very similar to Reg. M-A and Reg. M-B. Regs. C and F have a lot of development, so picking one or the other sounds good.
 
I 100% think that either 2009 or 2010 should be included. I'm leaning more towards 2009 since it's a really fun and interesting format with what seems like a lot of support. I think a format like this looks good:

1x 2009
1x 2013 (should be there always ngl)
1x 2015
1x 2017
1x 2019 Ultra Series
1x 2022
1x Regulation C
1x Regulation F / Regulation G

I'm honestly open to seeing Regulation G be played. My personal preference would probably lean there, but I assume most players would prefer Regulation F. One SV slot could be axed for SS (Series 9? Series 5? idk), though personally would prefer two SV slots.
 
I think Gen 4 shouldn’t get a slot because frankly it’s kinda uncompetitive and isn’t really reflective of the modern game + we can’t recreate it that well wrt items and stuff.

Imo we should do 13 14 15 17 18 19 22 Reg C, since tbh the other gen 8 formats are mostly fake (can consider replacing a gen 6 slot with 21?) and gen 9 is also a bit fresh.
 
here's my thoughts after looking back at my draft plans from previous editions:

The player pool for gen 4 is not great, there's only a couple of people who actually played gen 9, then good players who had 0 VGC 09 experience but were slotted in the format anyway, and the rest are people I've never seen in the Smogon/VGC community with random AI generated usernames.

imo it would be better to have a more recent format instead of this to cater to the large playerbase that started VGC after SW/SH and give players who were active back then a chance to play their initial formats again instead of just slotting those newer players in a format they've never played before

VGC 13 is fine, the player pool is not full of people who actively played VGC 13 back then but the format is the definition of a classic VGC format so have to keep that in

VGC 15 probably should be the one in the 14/15/16 selection, we had 14 last year and 16 seems to be disliked by the majority of people. or at least the people who dislike it are very vocal about it compared to the people who like it

VGC 17 + 19 Ultra Series seems to be the most popular in gen 7 but the gen 7 guys can say more if they disagree

VGC 21 (Series 9) + VGC 22 are the two most popular formats in Sw/Sh as it was the national dex format + restricted format of the generation. People raised the argument of not having any events in this format but this format did have an official Japan Nationals as well as a Players Cup so there was actual development in this format. (Series 5 Japan Nats was unofficial)

Scarlet/Violet: While regulation C wasn't a Worlds format, it still was one of the most popular formats in this gen so I think it warrants a place in the tournament. The other format should probably be a format played at Worlds but I feel like those formats weren't actually that well liked by most of the community. Regulation I feels too recent to add so my thought was Regulation G as the other SV format. If not that, then Regulation H seemed to be pretty popular as well as Regulation F

tldr: two formats in the three newest generations to cater for the larger influx in the playerbase post SWH allows vgc players who were active back then a chance to play again rather than letting them go undrafted to opt for someone with zero experience in an older format. at least to me, the goal of the tournament always was to give players a chance to play their favorite formats again so having more recent formats achieves that goal better. if the goal of the tournament has shifted to showcasing old formats instead, then adding gen 4 is the better option as well as only having one SV slot and opting for another gen 7 or 6 slot
 
Gen 6/7:
As far as Gen 6 and 7 are concerned all the possible options are solid (except for 16 lmao). Putting aside my huge bias as arguably the format's biggest fan, I would vote to see 15 return as 14 took its place last season and we did just have the 15 ladder to renew interest in the format. As far as actually being biased, I would love to see 18 be played for Gen 7.

Gen 8/9:
If the above is the case, we def want a regional dex format in either Gen 8 or Gen 9. I find the SV regional dex formats to be better than the Gen 8 ones so I would vote to have any of Reg A-C for Gen 9 - preferably C. I would then give the extra Gen 8 slot to Series 7/9.

Extra format + final thoughts:
For the 8th slot, my vote goes to 17 with it being additional regional dex representation and it's just a popular format I know people like. Frankly all the Gen 7 formats are solid so I think they deserve to be featured. Final thoughts are that if you choose to cut the extra Gen 8 slot, I'd vote Reg I as an extra Gen 9 format. As for Gen 4 representation, I have no real strong feelings on this. I think it's great to have every Gen be featured in some way but I also have no attachment to these formats unlike everything else that came after.
 
I think we can remove gen 4 as a whole and have more on gen 6-7 or even 8 by now

If i were to make a format it would be

VGC 13/14
VGC 15
VGC 17/18
VGC 19
VGC Series 5/7
VGC Series 12
SV Reg D / Reg G / Reg I (worlds forma)


If we need a format for gen 4 we should try 2010 because we did 2009 last year but i prefer gen 7 having all the format getting slotted for this year's classics.
 
13
14/15 either is good
17
18
19 ultra
21
22
Reg c

I think almost all of this formats are loved by a large amount of the vgc community, and it makes sense to have all of them here again, i agree with what sidd and tyo said about gen 4 vgc and i also think vdl is its rightful place in the team tour environment rn after last year.
However the most important thing in my opinion is what tyo said here, especially when he speaks about what the goal of the tournament is
tyo said:
tldr: two formats in the three newest generations to cater for the larger influx in the playerbase post SWH allows vgc players who were active back then a chance to play again rather than letting them go undrafted to opt for someone with zero experience in an older format. at least to me, the goal of the tournament always was to give players a chance to play their favorite formats again so having more recent formats achieves that goal better. if the goal of the tournament has shifted to showcasing old formats instead, then adding gen 4 is the better option as well as only having one SV slot and opting for another gen 7 or 6 slot
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tyo said:
The player pool for gen 4 is not great, there's only a couple of people who actually played gen 9, then good players who had 0 VGC 09 experience but were slotted in the format anyway, and the rest are people I've never seen in the Smogon/VGC community with random AI generated usernames.
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Was this actually the case? The only player who was slotted into 09 that was a true unknown was Prof. Fluffy who a lot of us thought was Duy (it wasn't, but a testament to their play). Everyone else either regularly participates in 09 tournaments that you might not be aware of, are gen 4 DOU players with transferable skills, or were coached by people with 09 experience. I don't fault you for not knowing our niche community staples (shoutout squidheads & potatoman), but people with 09 experience signed up.

tyo said:
tldr: two formats in the three newest generations to cater for the larger influx in the playerbase post SWH allows vgc players who were active back then a chance to play again rather than letting them go undrafted to opt for someone with zero experience in an older format. at least to me, the goal of the tournament always was to give players a chance to play their favorite formats again so having more recent formats achieves that goal better. if the goal of the tournament has shifted to showcasing old formats instead, then adding gen 4 is the better option as well as only having one SV slot and opting for another gen 7 or 6 slot
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Neither goal is mutually exclusive and both can be achieved by expanding to 10 slots, as oops suggested. This lets us keep a gen 4 format and adding whatever SV/SwSh ones the zoomers care about most. I personally got excited seeing fellow oldheads like Alaka, Enosh, and Makiri sign up to play 09 and 13, as they were some of the best players during that time. They came back to play their favorite formats, which is the point of the tour. We can't help that we're old and our favorite formats occured before the nephews could read.
 
if we can't do 7 slots of 2011 and 1 slot of 2016, this would be my thought

2010: i think it makes sense to have all gens in the classics, and also i think its a fun unique format thats more competitive than some ppl suggest. if it dont get a slot thats valid but i do think itd be neat
2013: realistically the only gen 5 year that should get one. i do like 2012 but it is just kind of worse and less popular than 13
2014: i really like 14 compared to 15, so this is a lot of bias. either makes a lot of sense and ik 14 has been used more recently, but i do just kind of really like the format lmao
2017/18: i dont think theres a wrong answer, but i do think there should only be one or the other. since 2019 is happening (spoilers), it would be a bit silly to have all of gen 7 in the tour even if its kind of a goated vgc gen. id personally slot 2017 in case my bias for regional dex hasnt shown yet, but like honestly theyre both awesome so its so good either way
2019 ultra: like yeah its happening
series 5: tbh this is where my knowledge is kind of at its worst but i like series 5 in the times ive played it and it seems(?) popular. if theres one id remove it would be this one
2022: only swsh worlds format so yeah its going down
reg c/reg g: reg c bc its the more popular option reg g bc its a really good format that is universally loved by anyone named ducktile. i feel like reg c is a super safe slot in even tho i do like reg g more. i also think theres a rly good argument for doing 1 slot of swsh and 2 of sv.

ik im a woman of high renown whos opinion is very relevant so heres my thoughts
 
Alright, the format has (for real this time) been decided.

1x VGC 2013
1x VGC 2015
1x VGC 2017
1x VGC 2018
1x VGC 2019 Ultra
1x VGC 2021 Series 9
1x VGC 2022 Series 12
1x VGC 2023 Regulation C

Signups will go up September 14th for both players and managers. The idea is for six teams, but I'll evaluate based on the number of signups if we want to expand to eight teams.
 
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