VGC Nationals Data

[Professor Birch]

Going to add the winning team data for each division. The original information and more data can be found here. Comment any trends or interesting things you see about them!

Masters:

Moves:

• Return
• Power-Up Punch
• Sucker Punch
• Fake Out

Nature: Jolly
Held Item: Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy

Moves:

• Brave Bird
• Flare Blitz
• U-Turn
• Taunt

Nature: Jolly
Held Item: Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings

Moves:

• Scald
• Ice Beam
• Hydro Pump
• Rain Dance

Nature: Modest
Held Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle

Moves:

• Dark Pulse
• Draco Meteor
• Flamethrower
• Earth Power

Nature: Modest
Held Item: Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate

Moves:

• King's Shield
• Flash Cannon
• Shadow Ball
• Substitute

Nature: Modest
Held Item: Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change

Moves:

• Scald
• Giga Drain
• Fake Out
• Ice Beam

Nature: Modest
Held Item: Assault Vest
Ability: Swift Swim

Seniors:

Moves:

• King's Shield
• Shadow Ball
• Flash Cannon
• Substitute

Nature: Quiet
Held Item: Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change

Moves:

• Protect
• Dragon Claw
• Earthquake
• Rock Slide

Nature: Jolly
Held Item: Lum Berry
Ability: Rough Skin

Moves:

• Dragon Pulse
• Stone Edge
• Draco Meteor
• Fire Blast

Nature: Modest
Held Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate

Moves:

• Overheat
• Thunderbolt
• Protect
• Will-O-Wisp

Nature: Modest
Held Item: Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate

Moves:

• Return
• Power-Up Punch
• Fake Out
• Sucker Punch

Nature: Jolly
Held Item: Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy

Moves:

• Sleep Powder
• Giga Drain
• Synthesis
• Sludge Bomb

Nature: Bold
Held Item: Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
Juniors:

Moves:

• Will-O-Wisp
• Air Slash
• Protect
• Heat Wave

Nature: Modest
Held Item: Charti Berry
Ability: Pressure

Moves:

• Hidden Power
• Protect
• Volt Switch
• Overheat

Nature: Modest
Held Item: Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod

Moves:

• Rock Slide
• Snarl
• Ice Beam
• Protect

Nature: Quiet
Held Item: Weakness Policy
Ability: Sand Stream

Moves:

• • Power Whip
  • Protect
  • Leech Seed
  • Gyro Ball

Nature: Sassy
Held Item: Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs

Moves:

• Superpower
• Waterfall
• Play Rough
• Aqua Jet

Nature: Adamant
Held Item: Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power

Moves:

• Close Combat
• Leaf Blade
• Psycho Cut
• Protect

Nature: Adamant
Held Item: Sitrus Berry
Ability: Steadfast

 

[klvkboom]

I can't say I'm that big of a fan of Alex Ogloza winning Masters with a rain team. Of course, it's a strong team and the results show. The meta is also fitting for rain to be a dominating playstyle. However, the more I see it, people would rather opt to play rain than try to beat it. It's naturally a very shaky strategy as you have to rely on maintaining rain as well as the inconsistencies of Hydro Pump (though Alex did an amazing job with running Scald on both his Waters for accuracy, but some teams can't afford the loss of power). With these issues though it comes with some incredible speed and power that hits the majority of the metagame unresisted.

No offence to rain users whatsoever, but it's coming to a conclusion that rain is a preferable playstyle for anyone in general. It's relatively easy to use, learn, as well as have relative success in. Essentially there's no reason not to use it. I guess it's what OU singles would consider a "stale metagame". I understand there are other playstyles other than rain, but with rain's success here (even Ray Rizzo used rain) I can only predict that rain will be prominent at Worlds.

Then again, some people will be exited to hear this, so it's all opinion on how you see it here.

 

[Carl]

Maybe we've been following two different VGC seasons but rain has only recently seen a real surge in play from where I stand. It's not like that was the meta all year. And when we say "rain," we're really only referring to Politoed and Ludicolo; which, the former is basically required for anything to even be considered rain and the latter is actually a pretty competent Pokemon without the presence of its preferred weather. That's only two Pokemon that use Drizzle at all and, again, Politoed is rain by default. Not nearly as drastic as last year with how hard teams went with rain. I guess you could credit Aegislash as part of the archetype as well because it is a benefit to reduce the fire weakness but that's marginal at best. You also mentioned that rain can be unreliable which is true if you're focusing on Hydro Pump or even Muddy Water.. but as you noted the team isn't really dependent on inaccurate moves as a source of consistent damage. Definitely less so that teams that employ Rotom Wash. Anyway, my point is that Drizzle doesn't seem very necessary to maintain or vital to the team's success. It's a play style option for flexibility but I would hardly make the jump in conclusion that it's a hard rain team any more than I would call the Junior team a sand team. Personally, I'd rather lament that fact that a team with Kangaskhan won...

Also interesting to recognize / acknowledge is that it was a team with 3 choice users and zero move slots dedicated to Protect.

 

[bwebber]

"Rain team" is such a lazy designation for a team.

 

[klvkboom]

Maybe we've been following two different VGC seasons but rain has only recently seen a real surge in play from where I stand. It's not like that was the meta all year. And when we say "rain," we're really only referring to Politoed and Ludicolo; which, the former is basically required for anything to even be considered rain and the latter is actually a pretty competent Pokemon without the presence of its preferred weather. That's only two Pokemon that use Drizzle at all and, again, Politoed is rain by default. Not nearly as drastic as last year with how hard teams went with rain. I guess you could credit Aegislash as part of the archetype as well because it is a benefit to reduce the fire weakness but that's marginal at best. You also mentioned that rain can be unreliable which is true if you're focusing on Hydro Pump or even Muddy Water.. but as you noted the team isn't really dependent on inaccurate moves as a source of consistent damage. Definitely less so that teams that employ Rotom Wash. Anyway, my point is that Drizzle doesn't seem very necessary to maintain or vital to the team's success. It's a play style option for flexibility but I would hardly make the jump in conclusion that it's a hard rain team any more than I would call the Junior team a sand team. Personally, I'd rather lament that fact that a team with Kangaskhan won...

Also interesting to recognize / acknowledge is that it was a team with 3 choice users and zero move slots dedicated to Protect.

I guess my biggest gripe for rain (at least a Politoed+ Ludicolo combo) is it's incredible inherent power with only those 2 slots. The term "Rain Team" may be a bit dramatic, but essentially from what I've seen Politoed+ Ludicolo is all you need to utilize from rain. Any more is overcentralizing, but really you don't need anything else.

You can consider it a small issue that's been going on throughout the entire season. From my observations at least, many VGC teams are just inherently weak to what Politoed brings to the table. You have the fastest Fake Out, an answer to Rotom forms, an answer to double Dragon, weather advantage due to superior typing, and of course rain boosted STAB that hits a lot for unresisted. Simply comparing this to the VGC viability rankings (which honestly could use a bit more development), within the A-S ranks Politoed+ Ludicolo only has some issues against Amoongus (doesn't fall easily to Ice Beam) and MVenusaur, and those are only defensive approaches against the combo. Everything else is in favor of rain or at least equal footing.

From my personal experiences, every team that I've made and every team I've looked at had some issue with Politoed+ Ludicolo in one way or another, especially if you want to play with offensive pressure. And if you try to get the 1-up and have the lead advantage well that works both ways, and more often than not you're at the mercy of what your opponent leads with. They also do have answers to defensive approaches that would presumably "beat" rain. Do you remember why MVenusaur had some usage spike mid season? It was to beat Fire/Water/Grass cores but primarily used to shut down hard rain teams. Rain adapted to focusing the core to only 2 Pokemon and opted for using TalonFlame, Specs Hydreigon, MMawile, MKang, and others to beat Pokemon that would otherwise bring rain trouble.

Of course as you've said, you've only seen a surge of rain recently, and to that I agree. In a smaller scale rain has only shown some form of dominance here and there, until now. It was at these smaller tourneys that gave me my conclusion of these variants of rain - they have a direct advantage and have answers to many counters. For the past few months myself, I've been thinking of possibilities to have a good advantage against these teams, but it's all into favorable lead match-up at that point, which means I myself am at a disadvantage due to typing and their damage potential.

Personally, from Nats I was hoping to see any sort of innovation that can reliably beat rain variants as well as the standard metagame. For a long time in the season, I wanted to find a good way to beat it. However, from what it looks like, it's easier to join the group than try to beat it, and unfortunately that is the reason why I have something against rain.

Also if we're able to get some notes of Ray Rizzo's team, I'm pretty sure he used an incredibly similar set-up. I didn't get to watch Nats, but it's safe for me to say that Ray also used at least a Scarf Politoed and Specs Hydreigon (correct me on this one, but I can't see any other Dragon usable here). Ludicolo isn't mandatory to have AV, but for the other 2 I can't see any exception from Scarf and Specs.

 

[Mymble]

I guess my biggest gripe for rain (at least a Politoed+ Ludicolo combo) is it's incredible inherent power with only those 2 slots. The term "Rain Team" may be a bit dramatic, but essentially from what I've seen Politoed+ Ludicolo is all you need to utilize from rain. Any more is overcentralizing, but really you don't need anything else.

You can consider it a small issue that's been going on throughout the entire season. From my observations at least, many VGC teams are just inherently weak to what Politoed brings to the table. You have the fastest Fake Out, an answer to Rotom forms, an answer to double Dragon, weather advantage due to superior typing, and of course rain boosted STAB that hits a lot for unresisted. Simply comparing this to the VGC viability rankings (which honestly could use a bit more development), within the A-S ranks Politoed+ Ludicolo only has some issues against Amoongus (doesn't fall easily to Ice Beam) and MVenusaur, and those are only defensive approaches against the combo. Everything else is in favor of rain or at least equal footing.

From my personal experiences, every team that I've made and every team I've looked at had some issue with Politoed+ Ludicolo in one way or another, especially if you want to play with offensive pressure. And if you try to get the 1-up and have the lead advantage well that works both ways, and more often than not you're at the mercy of what your opponent leads with. They also do have answers to defensive approaches that would presumably "beat" rain. Do you remember why MVenusaur had some usage spike mid season? It was to beat Fire/Water/Grass cores but primarily used to shut down hard rain teams. Rain adapted to focusing the core to only 2 Pokemon and opted for using TalonFlame, Specs Hydreigon, MMawile, MKang, and others to beat Pokemon that would otherwise bring rain trouble.

Of course as you've said, you've only seen a surge of rain recently, and to that I agree. In a smaller scale rain has only shown some form of dominance here and there, until now. It was at these smaller tourneys that gave me my conclusion of these variants of rain - they have a direct advantage and have answers to many counters. For the past few months myself, I've been thinking of possibilities to have a good advantage against these teams, but it's all into favorable lead match-up at that point, which means I myself am at a disadvantage due to typing and their damage potential.

Personally, from Nats I was hoping to see any sort of innovation that can reliably beat rain variants as well as the standard metagame. For a long time in the season, I wanted to find a good way to beat it. However, from what it looks like, it's easier to join the group than try to beat it, and unfortunately that is the reason why I have something against rain.

Also if we're able to get some notes of Ray Rizzo's team, I'm pretty sure he used an incredibly similar set-up. I didn't get to watch Nats, but it's safe for me to say that Ray also used at least a Scarf Politoed and Specs Hydreigon (correct me on this one, but I can't see any other Dragon usable here). Ludicolo isn't mandatory to have AV, but for the other 2 I can't see any exception from Scarf and Specs.

Politoed and Ludicolo are easily handled and iirc Alex brought neither in any of the finals matches because of how well they were handled by Abid's team, through Pokemon like Gyarados and Amoonguss. Politoed + Ludicolo does have a lot offensive pressure behind it, that isn't in question, it is just that basically any bulky Grass-type can handle them especially with bulky Pokemon like Tyranitar and Mega Kangaskhan alongside them. I can think of three successful rain teams before this (of course there were more, but this is just off the top of my head) and none of them actually won the tournaments they were in, rain hasn't been dominant at all this season, that isn't even in comparison to previous seasons. The weather nerf was huge for rain and Mega Charizard Y, Tyranitar, and Amoonguss being popular really mess with rain as well. Seriously, innovation isn't needed to beat rain, Mega Venusaur, AV Ludicolo, Amoonguss, Gyarados, and Tyranitar played right can all beat rain. Scarf Politoed while the most common set isn't the only set, I would recommend trying out bulky offensive Politoed with Encore. Specs Salamence is an alternative to Specs Hydreigon, not as good imo but Intimidate is always appreciated.

edit: Also this wasn't a rain team, it was a team with rain.

 

[klvkboom]

I must clarify, I did not say this team focused around rain in the slightest, regardless whether I called this a "rain" team. That is just a name, I did not mean to categorizing it as such (what else would I have called this team anyways?). What I'm trying to say though is that this team, as uncommon it may look, has been an impacting force in the metagame for a while already, believe it or not. I'm simply talking about this variant of a team in particular, not to mistake it for a rain-centric one.

The aforementioned "counters" to normal rain teams don't really cause issues for this team to begin with, so throwing ideas of weather changers or bulky grass types is a small misconception. As I've said before, this team does not rely on rain being up, rather it can abuse rain if it is, and at the same time have an answer to rain's "presumed" counters. Against a majority of the metagame, I can safely say this team has a good advantage. Even though results haven't shown this team to be a dominating force, it definitely has shown some success throughout the season albeit still unnoticed, hence why many people are surprised to see this team now. I personally have to say I am not surprised that this style of rain would make some nice results in Nats, however I was a little disappointed since I was looking for some good strategies to beat them.

I will also have to admit that I didn't get a chance to watch the National Finals, and I'm actually surprised to hear Alex not using Politoed+ Ludicolo. However, looking at Adib's team, it makes sense. 3 Pokemon that resist Politoed+ Ludicolo's strongest assets and the 2 Ice weak aren't even 2HKO'd, also with the potential to change the weather. However, I can't say the same for the majority of Pokemon teams to have that many counters, and it also looks like Adib clearly knew about Politoed's potential and decided to counter it as best as he could. I can say I'll look towards Adib's team for some ideas as he made very interesting decisions to play against this style of rain as well as the rest of the meta in general.

tl;dr - (I guess I should make one since I did happen to have a lot of text, srry guys). This team is real. It is a very powerful team and definitely one you should look out for especially at Worlds. I expect this team to take a commanding stance in future tournaments, and if you can't beat it, join it, otherwise you'll have a lot of issues dealing with it. This is not a team that happens to win 1 event and disappear into history, and I can't see a shift in the meta for this team to phaze out. Learn it, it is not something you can pass as a lucky win.

On a similar note, I found this article of this team on Eggy Emporium. It's an example of this team being used in the past. Here, the same team (with different spreads though, Japanese players are incredible when it comes to these EVs) has taken 4 spots in the top 32 of the Japan Cup, which iirc was about a few months before Nats. http://www.eggyemporium.com/team-reports/rs-rain-beat-down-top-32-japan-cup-team/

 

[MosImba]

Aside from the Rain Team v.s. Team With Rain convo going on up their, might I point out the usage of Mega Kangaskhan? Now, while I admit that I DO use Mega Kangaskhan in the majority of my PS! and XY Singles Battles, I am still dissapointed yet not surprised at the high amount of usage Mega Kangaskhan has had, litteraly "stealing the spotlight" of other potential Megas to take the scene such as Charizard Y or even Mega Mawile. I never saw Nationals (being underway and all), yet I did read the articles presented on Nugget Bridge, and it made me think where the Metagame is going for the rest of this year. I agree when it is said that it is easier to join the Metagame rather than go Anti-Meta, as long as Mega Kangaskhan is still here. I, for one, hope that this guy gets nerfed in OR/AS, and that in the future 2015 VGC Circuit, that TPCi will do it like this year's, Hoeen-native only, JUST to see the creativity and raw potential of other Megas. I, for one, am rooting for Mega Manectric. Just a gripe.

 

[viperGTS]

Aside from the Rain Team v.s. Team With Rain convo going on up their, might I point out the usage of Mega Kangaskhan? Now, while I admit that I DO use Mega Kangaskhan in the majority of my PS! and XY Singles Battles, I am still dissapointed yet not surprised at the high amount of usage Mega Kangaskhan has had, litteraly "stealing the spotlight" of other potential Megas to take the scene such as Charizard Y or even Mega Mawile. I never saw Nationals (being underway and all), yet I did read the articles presented on Nugget Bridge, and it made me think where the Metagame is going for the rest of this year. I agree when it is said that it is easier to join the Metagame rather than go Anti-Meta, as long as Mega Kangaskhan is still here. I, for one, hope that this guy gets nerfed in OR/AS, and that in the future 2015 VGC Circuit, that TPCi will do it like this year's, Hoeen-native only, JUST to see the creativity and raw potential of other Megas. I, for one, am rooting for Mega Manectric. Just a gripe.

Hoenn-native only? I hope you're joking, that means that EVERY single Kalos-native pokemon that everyone has made becomes instantly illegal.

 

[Professor Birch]

Hoenn-native only? I hope you're joking, that means that EVERY single Kalos-native pokemon that everyone has made becomes instantly illegal.

And what is wrong with that? Kalos-Native only made every other Pokemon illegal. I am actually for Hoenn-Native as well. Either way, I assure you I will be spamming Mega Swampert next season.

 

[viperGTS]

And what is wrong with that? Kalos-Native only made every other Pokemon illegal. I am actually for Hoenn-Native as well. Either way, I assure you I will be spamming Mega Swampert next season.

It completely negates the work that people put into raising their Kalos-native pokes. I'm hoping for a more "universal" VGC where all pokemon are allowed, similar to VGC 2013 (so no Ubers).

 

[ethan06]

Hey, some things will still be legal, especially considering that they will be expanding the Hoenn dex in ORAS anyway (Dusknoir showed up in CoroCoro scans so pretty much confirmed). We still get Mawile, we still get Azumarill, all the worst cancermons like Rotom-W, Talonflame and Mega Kangaskhan are out. It will be a completely different meta but that'll be just fine, we can still train up more things :) Most Doubles sets can be retrofitted for singles if you want to use them outside of VGC even if they are banned. Nothing to worry about ^^

 

[Professor Birch]

For me, it is all about seeing new creativity. Therefore, if most of the common Pokemon now are banned, creativity will increase. I just hope that Nintendo doesn't add some stupid rule.

 

[MosImba]

Haven't seen this post in a while, and wow! I'm surprised that people are on my side of the whole Hoeen-native VGC idea! Just saw the Masters set on YouTube when I hit Korea, and man, the only "exciting" part of that match was when Hydreigon OHKO'ed Aegislash. Fun times ;)

 

[bwebber]

For me, it is all about seeing new creativity. Therefore, if most of the common Pokemon now are banned, creativity will increase. I just hope that Nintendo doesn't add some stupid rule.

No it won't. A different group of Pokemon would just become popular.

 

[Professor Birch]

No it won't. A different group of Pokemon would just become popular.

But at least people need to think on how to find those common Pokemon. I just don't wanna see the same exact Pokemon as this year. Just delete Rotom from the entire game imo.

 

[Sixonesix]

VGC isn't about playing Pokemon, it's about running from bullshit format to bullshit format each year and rewarding the person who's the most "creative" every time.

Didn't you get the memo? I didn't either, but MosImba, Professor Birch, and ethan06 clearly did.