Partially Approved vgc timer

silent31

today, i lost a vgc battle due to timer inactivity. i didn't save the replay, so i understand my account of this will need to be believed. it went this way. it was 2 on 2, and on this turn, i had 30 secs left. i made my move when i saw the 5 secs prompt show up. after the turn ended, all that was left was a tatsugiri and my lucario in a 1 on 1; there was nothing to think about. i was waiting for the animations to finish, and before i could do anything (honestly), i saw the message saying i lost due to inactivity. there was literally nothing i could do.
i tried asking about this in help, but maybe this is the better place to put this.
there is no reason i or anyone should lose/win a battle because of something like this. i did not take an inordinate amount of time, or do anything not in the spirit of the game that would warrant a timer loss in that situation. i have played for enough years that, as not as good as i am, i can say that has almost never happened to me.to lose like that. the help member said that you are always given 10 secs at least to input a move, but i certainly did not get that this morning. i barely saw the animations end (2 pokemon fainted, too), and then i saw i had lost. if the tatsugiri was choiced, then my lucario had a chance as it would have been locked into icy wind.
if lag was the issue, i also don't see why (though admittedly before today, i've also never seen this be the deciding factor) why it's only 10 secs when you've used up the timer. maybe 20 secs? or something a little higher. better players than me could determine the correct amount of time. not more than 30 secs, that i'm sure of. but from watching official vgc battles i'm sure they get 1 min in team preview, at least, and take about 30 secs at least for each turn. why isn't that here?
can battle animations be turned off? maybe that would have eliminated the lag. that's another solution, maybe.
timer is important. i believe that. but there should be a better system than what's there right now.
 
You only have 7 minutes of "Your Time" available in VGC games, consistent with cartridge play. However, what you've described is a bug. Technically, you should always have 45 seconds of decision time, and Your Time wins should be processed at the end of the turn, not at the start. So in fact if you only have 10 seconds of Your Time remaining, Showdown should let you go beyond the 45 seconds of move selection, and then you should have immediately lost at the end of the turn if you did not win that turn, or if both players ran out of Your Time simultaneously, go to standard VGC tiebreakers.
 
Yes, you can see it both on cartridge and on Showdown.
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okay.
so, as far as suggestions would go, and this is (likely) maybe too much work for this format to be worth it.
but, obviously, vgc normally has a time limit. in showdown, it's optional, or somewhat optional. battles aren't started that way, but either player can request that the timer be there. the fact that either player can request the timer without the other's permission really doesn't bother me, because i know that inactivity has to be accounted for. but, i'm not a fan or losing due to going over the 7:00 mins limit. i wouldn't agree to that, if given the choice.
now, should i be given that choice? i don't know. if the argument for this is vgc has a timer, the obvious counter is that, "well, we don't start with a timer unless one of the players requests it." there's a distinction, to me, between being told to get a move in within 30/45 secs (whatever it is), and being told, in total, don't go over 7:00 mins. the "a move must be made within 45 secs" rule accounts for inactivity, so the fact that one player can request without the other's permission, is important. and team preview, the amount of time you get there being 1 min or so, that's fine too. i understand that. but again, i think as more of a casual player (which i am; i just try to be good enough so that the serious players that start at the bottom of the ladder don't get annoyed with my lack of skill or find me too gimmicky), i don't want to lose, or even win (although, i know i can turn off the timer if i'm the one who requests it; and who knows, i might have won a few battles because my opponent was low on remaining time and so rushed to just input commands, making obvious moves) because someone's personal time went out. if that can be an option requiring both players agreeing to it, like open team sheets is right now, i would prefer that. again, i know that vgc normally has this rule. but vgc normally requires the time limit while a player has to request it on showdown, and vgc doesn't default a player for not inputting a command (i think the default option is chosen if time runs out here). so there is nuance to this. i think it's very disappointing to lose a battle that you were in and obviously that went very long if personal timer came into play (and i mean, i wasn't the one using sub leftovers dondozo; i had a vaporeon, but it's not a stall one),
 
silent31 said:
okay.
so, as far as suggestions would go, and this is (likely) maybe too much work for this format to be worth it.
but, obviously, vgc normally has a time limit. in showdown, it's optional, or somewhat optional. battles aren't started that way, but either player can request that the timer be there. the fact that either player can request the timer without the other's permission really doesn't bother me, because i know that inactivity has to be accounted for. but, i'm not a fan or losing due to going over the 7:00 mins limit. i wouldn't agree to that, if given the choice.
now, should i be given that choice? i don't know. if the argument for this is vgc has a timer, the obvious counter is that, "well, we don't start with a timer unless one of the players requests it." there's a distinction, to me, between being told to get a move in within 30/45 secs (whatever it is), and being told, in total, don't go over 7:00 mins. the "a move must be made within 45 secs" rule accounts for inactivity, so the fact that one player can request without the other's permission, is important. and team preview, the amount of time you get there being 1 min or so, that's fine too. i understand that. but again, i think as more of a casual player (which i am; i just try to be good enough so that the serious players that start at the bottom of the ladder don't get annoyed with my lack of skill or find me too gimmicky), i don't want to lose, or even win (although, i know i can turn off the timer if i'm the one who requests it; and who knows, i might have won a few battles because my opponent was low on remaining time and so rushed to just input commands, making obvious moves) because someone's personal time went out. if that can be an option requiring both players agreeing to it, like open team sheets is right now, i would prefer that. again, i know that vgc normally has this rule. but vgc normally requires the time limit while a player has to request it on showdown, and vgc doesn't default a player for not inputting a command (i think the default option is chosen if time runs out here). so there is nuance to this. i think it's very disappointing to lose a battle that you were in and obviously that went very long if personal timer came into play (and i mean, i wasn't the one using sub leftovers dondozo; i had a vaporeon, but it's not a stall one),
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It's necessary for it to be possible for the timer to be turned on by just one player because that's how a game can end if the other player just leaves their computer and doesn't make a move at all.

VGC's timer is bad, it's one of the reasons a lot of people don't play VGC. It's so bad that timer stall is a valid strategy. If you want to try a doubles format with a functional timer you can try Smogon Doubles.
 
my apologies if i'm misunderstanding this....

but it seems to me that the my time timer in showdown immediately starts running as soon as both players input their commands. i think this is because players have the option to skip the animations, and go immediately to the next turn?

from my understanding, in real vgc, my time only runs during the time players have to input commands. they do not lose time during animations.

is that right?
 
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