Is it really necessary to blacklist the banned megas? This is a OU thread after all so naturally we won't discuss something like Mega Mewtwo XY or Mega Gengar.
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Other Viable Megas (V2)
- Thread starter NeonNinja96
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idk why i even bother with this :/
Again, pick a speed tier and outspeed it. He doesnt need a blazing speed. Mawile has a base speed of 50, Azu as well. Bisharp is base 70. No one complains about that and theyre all top tier threats. Hes a wallbreaker, not a sweeper.
If I dont have a mega slot used and I want a wallbreaker, Id choose Chomp over all those any day. If I want a sweeper Ill choose Gyara or Pinsir. If I want a wall/bulky attacker, Ill choose Venu. It depends on the team.
A lot of things are easily revenge killed. Off the top of my head are Bisharp, Landorus, Landorus T, Non Boosted Megados, Offensive Mega Venusaur, Kyubes, etc. And Chomp only needs sand. Everything else is what should be on a normal team lol.
Again, the speed isnt an issue. You dont see people complaining about Mega Heracrosses base 75 speed or Lando-Ts base 91 speed. Pick a speed tier and outspeed it. You dont need a base 102 speed with his bulk and great offenses.
All Kyurem B has over Megachomp is the ability to run an item and more bulk. Everything else is the same. Also chomp doesnt have a SR weakness, not does he cower in the face of steels, as well as a much better movepool and typing. And the ability to 6-0 stall just by switching in and out every once in a while is well worth a mega slot if the team needs it.
SR Exca needs sand support. No one complains about that. Having either an A+ or A rank Poke on a team isnt restrictive at all. Idk why people think thats a problem. Also, he still nukes things with Draco Meteor and Fire Blast, which dont require sand support. The one set is all he needs because literally nothing outside of Cresselia and SpDef Gliscor can wall it. Nothing else in OU can boast that. Every other Pokemon has to pick a coverage move to beat what it wants, which is giving up another coverage move that leaves you walled by something else.
Again, pick a speed tier and outspeed it. He doesnt need a blazing speed. Mawile has a base speed of 50, Azu as well. Bisharp is base 70. No one complains about that and theyre all top tier threats. Hes a wallbreaker, not a sweeper.
If I dont have a mega slot used and I want a wallbreaker, Id choose Chomp over all those any day. If I want a sweeper Ill choose Gyara or Pinsir. If I want a wall/bulky attacker, Ill choose Venu. It depends on the team.
Mega Chomp needs sand support to be worth it, which requires you use the support T-Tar set and is considered "significant" support. Kyurem-B does not need weather and can run more than one set, like (in no particular order) Sub, Scarf, Band, LO 3 Attacks + Roost, or LO 4 Attacks. Kyurem-B doesn't technically need Hazard removal but really appreciates it, but that's the most significant support it requires.
Also Chomp is B(+ or -?) on the normal Viability thread.
Also Chomp is B(+ or -?) on the normal Viability thread.
I'm still sticking with my original claim that there are better Garchomp sets out there and MegaChomp is not a top-tier sweeper.
Also, I'm nominating Zard Y for S-Rank.
"but m-muh stealth rock"
I think this mega's pros outweigh this one con by far. XY brought reliable hazard removal in the form of Defog which makes Charizard's job a lot easier. In fact, hazard removal is the only support Zard needs (apart from hazards of it's own which any poke would enjoy). I know S-Rank is generally reserved for mons that need basically no support, but the same case could be made for Zard X.
Zard Y has exactly what Zard X has going for it, which is the unpredictability. Of course you can make an educated guess on which Zard your opponent is running, but there is and never will be a 100% foolproof method of determining that. Even after it mega-evolves, there is an additional layer of unpredictability. Can I switch in my Tran or will it be running EQ? Can I switch in Chansey, or does it have Flare Blitz (which can be a 2HKO after rocks)?
This thing can break stall and weather all the while giving sun support for other teammates. The list goes on. In my eyes, there is no reason Zard Y shouldn't be S as long as it's brother is.
Edit: Forgot to mention that he can 2HKO the majority of the meta, so there's that.
Also, I'm nominating Zard Y for S-Rank.
"but m-muh stealth rock"
I think this mega's pros outweigh this one con by far. XY brought reliable hazard removal in the form of Defog which makes Charizard's job a lot easier. In fact, hazard removal is the only support Zard needs (apart from hazards of it's own which any poke would enjoy). I know S-Rank is generally reserved for mons that need basically no support, but the same case could be made for Zard X.
Zard Y has exactly what Zard X has going for it, which is the unpredictability. Of course you can make an educated guess on which Zard your opponent is running, but there is and never will be a 100% foolproof method of determining that. Even after it mega-evolves, there is an additional layer of unpredictability. Can I switch in my Tran or will it be running EQ? Can I switch in Chansey, or does it have Flare Blitz (which can be a 2HKO after rocks)?
This thing can break stall and weather all the while giving sun support for other teammates. The list goes on. In my eyes, there is no reason Zard Y shouldn't be S as long as it's brother is.
Edit: Forgot to mention that he can 2HKO the majority of the meta, so there's that.
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Zard Y dropped like half a month ago because it needs too much support to be considered S Rank. It needs a Pursuit Trapper, possible Hippodown to reset weather, and hazard removal, which is half of your team.
Right, just noticed that it was a "conclusion reached" mon on the main thread.
Should actually be added to this thread's conclusion section, come to think of it.
He doesn't need sand to be worth it, but his wall breaking potential skyrockets with it. Sand Rush Exca requires this "significant" support, yet you don't see his viability questioned. And having an A+ threat on your team that can do multiple things to support the entire team is in no way a bad thing.
No, Kyubes doesn't need weather. What he does need is rocks off the field. Otherwise he's easily worn down by LO recoil for his most common set, and has limited switch in opportunities. And his only way to get past fairies is Iron Head. And steels laugh in his face if he lacks Earth Power (and Scizor does regardless of what moves he runs). I'd say that hazard removal +fairy and steel removal is more support than what Chomp needs, which is only technically sand.
B+, and I'm making a push for A-, which has gotten a bit of support (though it got lost under the whole "offensive pivot" role thing).
I get where y'all are coming from but I seriously question if any of you use him on a regular basis. I was the same way until I started using him.
-Clone-
First off, you're wrong. Pokes like P2 will counter Gar-Mega... However, this short list also only exists in sand. Take away sand and suddenly obstacles like AV Slowbro stand in your way.... In fact, AV slowbro will probably stand in your way regardless as the 2hko in sand is not even guaranteed and he has awesome recovery powers.
However, if Chomp really did 6-0 stall in sand, yes we could say it was A rank viability. This isn't true. Stall can still play a checkdown game because chomp has to 2hko. With the rumored "Rise of ZardX" (What a joke, look at WCOP usage for stall), Gliscor is ZardX's most common partner. So... obviously not in chomp's favor.
And finally, you're going to be predicting switches with stall. Running a rash nature, you're losing a decent bit of special defense. You're NOT taking hits that well with uninvested 108/95- and no passive recovery.
Team support, Chomp needs sand. Obviously. One of the sand setters shares chomp's weakness and if you're going to use sand, you'll probably also run Excadrill. To not be a deadweight vs offense, you'll probably also need sticky web support. Even then, latis get by you, zardX on first switch does too. At least two mons of support, one mon that becomes mandatory on any dedicated sand team and a mega spot for one mon? That doesn't sound A rank.
First off, you're wrong. Pokes like P2 will counter Gar-Mega... However, this short list also only exists in sand. Take away sand and suddenly obstacles like AV Slowbro stand in your way.... In fact, AV slowbro will probably stand in your way regardless as the 2hko in sand is not even guaranteed and he has awesome recovery powers.
However, if Chomp really did 6-0 stall in sand, yes we could say it was A rank viability. This isn't true. Stall can still play a checkdown game because chomp has to 2hko. With the rumored "Rise of ZardX" (What a joke, look at WCOP usage for stall), Gliscor is ZardX's most common partner. So... obviously not in chomp's favor.
And finally, you're going to be predicting switches with stall. Running a rash nature, you're losing a decent bit of special defense. You're NOT taking hits that well with uninvested 108/95- and no passive recovery.
Team support, Chomp needs sand. Obviously. One of the sand setters shares chomp's weakness and if you're going to use sand, you'll probably also run Excadrill. To not be a deadweight vs offense, you'll probably also need sticky web support. Even then, latis get by you, zardX on first switch does too. At least two mons of support, one mon that becomes mandatory on any dedicated sand team and a mega spot for one mon? That doesn't sound A rank.
Alright then. Updates;
Mega Garchomp: B, Overwhelming arguments for it.
Mega Manectric: B, Forgot about this one yesterday.
Additionally, it has been brought to my attention that this format isn't the best way to discuss these Mega Evolutions. Any feedback or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Mega Garchomp: B, Overwhelming arguments for it.
Mega Manectric: B, Forgot about this one yesterday.
Additionally, it has been brought to my attention that this format isn't the best way to discuss these Mega Evolutions. Any feedback or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
On the Porygon-2 thing:
252+ SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 153-181 (40.9 - 48.3%)
36 Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2 in Sand: 118-139 (31.5 - 37.1%)
(Enough speed EV's to outrun Jolly Breloom)
The minimum porygon-2 will be taking from these 2 hits is ~72%, if we factor in sandstorm, that's 85%, If stealth rock is on the field, that's 96%, On the absolute minimum damage possible. Also, about slowbro,
36 Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro in Sand: 154-183 (39 - 46.4%) -- 89.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
252+ SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro: 177-208 (44.9 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
Slowbro can hardly be considered a "counter" in sand either.
Can't say too much about the lack of special bulk other than ask what exactly stall is hitting it with.
And for team support, I'll compare it to charizard-Y. Zard-Y absolutely needs a defogger/spinner, that's one Pokemon's worth of support. It also appreciates a pursuit trapper, that's another pokemon's worth of support. Finally, just like Garchomp, Zard-Y takes up a mega evolution. Zard-Y is in A rank, despite the support it needs. What makes garchomp's support any more restrictive?
I was referring to things that are threatening but ok. I only said Cresselia cuz it takes a Pokemon with 120 / 120 / 130 defenses to wall him. And the guy above showed that AV Bro dies. He cant switch in.
You misunderstood what I meant. i should have said he has the potential to 6-0 stall as stall has no safe switch in bar SpDef Gliscor, which is beaten by AV Azu or something. Beat that and its gg. The Zard X argument is crap cuz:
252+ SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mega Charizard X: 390-458 (108.3 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And no one in their right mind would use fully SpDef Xard. EQ OHKOes too w/ sand and OHKOes w/o sand when rox are up. Anyways the point is that Megachomp dismantles stall cores easily leaving no safe switch ins and having to take 2 hits if they do switch in.
Stall doesnt use special attacks bar scald, which idk why youd risk staying in on that. And with a wishpasser (which is really fucking good on balance), the recovery is a non issue cuz stall can barely hurt it acctively w/o passive damage.
Sand is all he needs to do his job. Exca is nice but not even needed. And if you think hes deadweight against offense I seriously question the viability of your argument and I doubt youve ever used him. Like stall, he has no safe switch ins, and double switches arent the hardest thing in the world to do if you know what youre doing. And outspeeding things like base 80s is more than enough. Hes also able to take a few hits, including some SE ones. Also Sticky Web is shit. Dont use it.
TTar traps the Latis and provides sand. One mon. Two jobs. Not a lot of support. The same cant be said for Zard Y, which is being proposed for S. He needs Hazard control + Pursuit support for the Latis. That takes more support than Megachomp.
Discussion here has dies down for almost three weeks, and the thread as is now is redundant, because it's structured the same way as the viability ranking thread, which leads to almost anyone posting there instead of here. Locking for now, anyone can PM me with ideas on how to make this thread better if you would like to see this thread back in action.
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