Other Viable Megas

[mrglass]

5.) If Zard Y ends up in the same tier as Politoed and/or Ninetales, he's going to get major competition from them for a spot on a team, and both of them have better movepools and can actually take a hit (plus Politoed switching in just screws you over).

Charizard Y can take a hit better than Ninetales. It has 78/78/115 defenses to Ninetales 73/75/100. It has (slightly) better typing, having 6 resistances, with 2 4X resistances and an immunity. It's equally weak to hazards, as Charizard Y is immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web. Literally the only reason to use Ninetales over Charizard Y is for a Heat Rock. Charizard Y even learns Roar, so it can fill the bulky phazer role.

When you are switching Charizard in, Politoed will need to be extremely weary of switching in, because Charizard can mega-evolve, shut down the rain, and destroy it with SolarBeam. Or if you are predicting your opponent will wait, you can set up with a Flame Charge or Dragon Dance (or any thing else without Mega-evoing)

 

[Srn]

Oh and just thought I'd mention that mega alakazam can outspeed mega gengar, trace shadow tag, then revenge kill

EDIT:Wait shadow tag cancels derp. Still, I don't think anything will enjoy taking a big hit from 175 base sp. att.

 

[Mattman324]

Also, as a potential note (and a plus in MC's book), if sun is already up, you can use your Solar Powered Zard to smash the foe, and then when he's used and had his fun, Mega Evolve and put the sun up for the next killer.

EDIT: Alakazam can't counter Gengar, though. For it to trace Shadow Tag at all, it would have to ME AFTER Gengar, meaning Gengar would get a turn to smash it. And even if it did, you can't trap a Ghost in this gen.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Don't forget Rest-talk it actually legit again, so its not like they are completely screwed, I do agree tough the defensive route might not be the best for megas unless its Aggron. I am more of thinking using Blaziken or Absol to check or support for sweeping.

 

[Thorhammer]

Megas aren't inherently better than ordinary Pokemon. I'm sure most teams will use one, but there's plenty of reason not to, if none of the right Pokemon fit into your team or having them go Mega just wouldn't benefit your team compared to holding a regular item.

 

[-Nitro-]

Stalling with megas is going be tough though, because you don't get any leftovers recovery, and leftovers is one of the reasons stall even exists.

This. At first, I was hoping that Mega Blastoise would make a great bulky rapid spinner. Probably not Tentacruel good, but still. Then I remembered he loses rain dish, and lefties.

EDIT: He does get Dark Pulse now, boosted by mega launcher. Which means he's a lot harder to block with ghosts as a spinner, which is nice, especially if he remains lower tier, as I'm still not sure he'd be tentacruel level (who can spin AND bring a lot more to the table with spikes)

 

[Classical]

There is lots of talk about which Charizard is superior. Lol it doesn't matter, X likely may be the default set. But you fail to see, as one of them becomes the norm, the other one becomes so much better.

I have charizard on the board. You have no idea which mega it is. You guess wrong. I get a free easy kill. You Guess right I still have a ridiculously powerful sweeper and the momentum from a forced switch. Let's not compare charizards because the fact that they both can exist means that charizard is super great, is there any checks that can check both of them? Because it's looking like each one has few counters if any at all?

The same thing can be said for most of the megas already, it gives the pokemon another tool. The more sets a pokemon can viably use the more viable all of those sets become, my favorite example of this is mence. I hate seeing mence in team preview because it can run 100+ sets. and then all of them are better because they all have different counters. Don't compare to other sets of the mon, see how they fare against it's counters.

 

[Count Bleck]

So, here's a counter argument on why I think on why I think Mega Alazakam will be useful. It's the ultimate check to Mega Gengar. Think about it. With Trace, it will be able to copy the foes ability, which on Gengar, is Shadow tag. It out speeds it by a whopping 20 speed points, and steals it's ability for free. Oh, and Mega Gengar is 2X weak to Psychic. Nice.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

So, here's a counter argument on why I think on why I think Mega Alazakam will be useful. It's the ultimate check to Mega Gengar. Think about it. With Trace, it will be able to copy the foes ability, which on Gengar, is Shadow tag. It out speeds it by a whopping 20 speed points, and steals it's ability for free. Oh, and Mega Gengar is 2X weak to Psychic. Nice.

Ghost types are now immune to the effects of Shadow Tag, so this all falls flat.

:(

 

[Thorhammer]

So, here's a counter argument on why I think on why I think Mega Alazakam will be useful. It's the ultimate check to Mega Gengar. Think about it. With Trace, it will be able to copy the foes ability, which on Gengar, is Shadow tag. It out speeds it by a whopping 20 speed points, and steals it's ability for free. Oh, and Mega Gengar is 2X weak to Psychic. Nice.

Ghosts can't be trapped. And to outspeed Mega Gengar on its first turn out, it would have to have already Mega Evolved earlier, while it can only switch in up to the turn Gengar first Mega Evolves. It just doesn't work.

You're better off just having a Choice Scarf user switch in the first time Gengar shows its face. And if they've got Pursuit, even better. Not that I'm sure there are any Pokemon that have Pursuit and can outspeed a base 130 Pokemon by holding a Scarf and are strong enough to pose a threat to Mega Gengar even if it stays in and they get locked in on an unboosted Pursuit, but that's what you'd need somehow in order to trap Gengar.

 

[mrglass]

Ghosts can't be trapped. And to outspeed Mega Gengar on its first turn out, it would have to have already Mega Evolved earlier, while it can only switch in up to the turn Gengar first Mega Evolves. It just doesn't work.

You're better off just having a Choice Scarf user switch in the first time Gengar shows its face. And if they've got Pursuit, even better. Not that I'm sure there are any Pokemon that have Pursuit and can outspeed a base 130 Pokemon by holding a Scarf and are strong enough to pose a threat to Mega Gengar even if it stays in and they get locked in on an unboosted Pursuit, but that's what you'd need somehow in order to trap Gengar.

Zoroark might be your man. It's already a great anti-ghost pokemon if you disguise it as a ghost. With a scarf, it can Night Daze/Dark Pulse/Night Slash/Pursuit it after switching in with a choice scarf

 

[Count Bleck]

Are you saying that the Stat changes don't take effect the second they evolve? And even if Gengar switches out (which it probably will) You still have monstrous speed and special attack, and dark types can eat a Focus Blast or HP fighting. Gengar would be smoked out, out sped, and KO'd.

 

[Thorhammer]

Are you saying that the Stat changes don't take effect the second they evolve? And even if Gengar switches out (which it probably will) You still have monstrous speed and special attack, and dark types can eat a Focus Blast or HP fighting. Gengar would be smoked out, out sped, and KO'd.

The Speed doesn't, no. Others do.

If you want Mega Alakazam to try rampaging through a foe's team on its own merits, that's fine, but it doesn't have anything specifically anti-Gengar. It's just a faster Pokemon that can hit it super effectively, while also being vulnerable to super effective hits itself.

 

[Mattman324]

Good point on Zoroak, though setting your team up to make it counter Gengar specifically is... kind of a waste IMO. (You COULD make it look like a Psychic, because Dark and Psychic are effectively two sides of the same coin except the Bug weakness)

Unfortunately, that doesn't help the 454 Metagame. We need a counter around now...

 

[Haruno]

Are you saying that the Stat changes don't take effect the second they evolve? And even if Gengar switches out (which it probably will) You still have monstrous speed and special attack, and dark types can eat a Focus Blast or HP fighting. Gengar would be smoked out, out sped, and KO'd.

Speed is determined at the start of the battle phase. So on the turn you mega evolve, you'll be using its normal forms speed stat.

 

[Runic]

Megakazam outspeeds and overpowers everything so hard it's not funny. It doesn't even need trace to do anything, just throw it in there and let it kill everything. With Calm Mind, not even Blissey can stop it for long.

edit: Megakazam vs. Megengar counter each other. If one switches in on the other, they will get rekt.

edit 2: mega stalling isn't gonna happen. Granted, a few of them have serious wall potential, but walling =/= stalling.

 

[Mattman324]

Megakazam outspeeds and overpowers everything so hard it's not funny. It doesn't even need trace to do anything, just throw it in there and let it kill everything. With Calm Mind, not even Blissey can stop it for long.

edit: Megakazam vs. Megengar counter each other. If one switches in on the other, they will get rekt.

But aside from the speed, Mega Alakazam LOSES compared to LO Magic Guard in terms of attack power. It not being countered by Mega Gengar (it isn't countered by Mega Gengar at all) is one of the side effects of that speed, it not being countered by any mega except Aerodactyl or Lucario actually being the effect.

 

[Lord Jesseus]

Is Trace a loss for MegaZam? Magic Guard is an excellent ability, Trace seems lackluster and situational in comparison.
edit: oh lol someone just said that

 

[Runic]

But aside from the speed, Mega Alakazam LOSES compared to LO Magic Guard in terms of attack power.

LO/MG makes it practically base 176. That's only one point more than Megakazam, who has 30 higher base speed. The only thing he's losing is Magic Guard, which isn't really that great unless the ground is made of point shit or you have a Sash.

 

[Thorhammer]

LO/MG makes it practically base 176. That's only one point more than Megakazam, who has 30 higher base speed. The only thing he's losing is Magic Guard, which isn't really that great unless the ground is made of point shit or you have a Sash.

Not true. Base 135 gives you 369 SpA; x1.3 from LO makes it 479. Base 175 only gets 449, meaning it drops to 94% the power of LO Alakazam. (I'm assuming neutral natures for simpler calculations; the comparison is exactly the same with +SpA natures.)

So yes, it's a noticeable decrease, by more than one point: LO makes regular Alakazam's SpA function more like base 190. Of course, it's not the biggest of drops, either.

 

[Spenstar]

Not true. Base 135 gives you 369 SpA; x1.3 from LO makes it 479. Base 175 only gets 449, meaning it drops to 94% the power of LO Alakazam. (I'm assuming neutral natures for simpler calculations; the comparison is exactly the same with +SpA natures.)

So yes, it's a noticeable decrease, by more than one point: LO makes regular Alakazam's SpA function more like base 190. Of course, it's not the biggest of drops, either.

now IDK Alakazam too well, but note that the power gap is significantly lessened if Zam tends to use a +Speed nature. More Speed = Zam might be able to switch to a +SpA nature

 

[Lord Jesseus]

LO/MG makes it practically base 176. That's only one point more than Megakazam, who has 30 higher base speed. The only thing he's losing is Magic Guard, which isn't really that great unless the ground is made of point shit or you have a Sash.

Unless I'm calculating wrong, with Life Orb is more like Base 190. Remember, Life Orb multiplies the actual stats, not the Base Stats.
edit: Greninja'd

 

[Thorhammer]

now IDK Alakazam too well, but note that the power gap is significantly lessened if Zam tends to use a +Speed nature. More Speed = Zam might be able to switch to a +SpA nature

Good catch! As with many Megas, the power gap only exists if they both use the same nature. Comparing Modest MegaZam to Timid LO Zam, the former actually has about 103% the power of the latter!

This does forfeit most of the Spe advantage, but it's still got 399 Spe to Timid LO Zam's 372. This is enough to outspeed +Spe base 130s like Mega Gengar; they reach 394.

 

[Typhlito]

Are we sure we found all the megas because its weird how there isnt one gen 5 pokemon who has a mega form.

 

[Thorhammer]

After all this time, it's hard to imagine we'd miss any, let alone multiple Gen 5 Megas to make it match the others.

That is, of the things that are currently available. Any number of other Megas could be locked in the games' data, waiting to only show up when some event or later game releases their Mega Stone. We can't hack 3DS games, so there's no way to be sure.