SS OU Vile-Darm Sun

[blueman164]

Hello everyone! This is my first RMT ever, so forgive it for not being quite as flashy as most. I wanted to build a Sun team around one of my favorite pokemon, Vileplume, and decided to pair it with a new toy we got from HOME, Unovan Darmanitan. This is what I ended up making.

The Team:

The Sets:

Torkoal (M) @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Body Press
- Yawn
- Stealth Rock

The standard sun-setter Torkoal. A must have for sun teams for...well, obvious reasons. Heat Rock to extend Sun's duration as this team heavily relies on it being up. 248 HP because I believe it takes less from stealth rocks that way? 252 Defense with a Bold Nature to maximize his physical bulk. The rest in special attack for that sick Lava Plume damage. 0 Attack IVs to minimize Foul Play Damage. Lava Plume as a STAB move that can also spread burns. Body Press to abuse Torkoal's incredibly high Defense stat and hit some pokemon harder than a Lava Plume could. Yawn to force switches. Stealth Rock to get some extra chip on the enemy team. Nothing incredibly special here, would like some suggestions on moves to run (Yawn hasn't gotten me much use.)

Vileplume (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Wave
- Moonblast
- Sleep Powder

The pokemon I mainly wanted to build around on this team. I realize Venusaur gets Weather Ball now, but what he doesn't get is Moonblast, which can seriously threaten some problematic pokemon like Mandibuzz, Dracovish, and Kommo-o. Max SpA with a Life Orb to get the most damage out of Vileplume. 252 Spe with a Timid Nature to go as fast as possible and threaten pokemon under the sun that would otherwise outspeed the Plume. 0 Atk to once again minimize Foul Play damage. Giga Drain as a grass-type STAB move that can recover some health to offset the Life Orb damage. Sludge Wave as a stronger poison STAB than Sludge Bomb, and the strongest move on this set. Moonblast to cover pokemon like those that I brought up earlier. Sleep Powder to have some means of punishing Steel types for switching in on Vileplume, which is the biggest problem for it. Which brings us to the next pokemon...

Darmanitan (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn

This dude is a nuke under the sun, plain and simple. Steel types quiver in fear at the very sight of this absolute monster, which is good news for Vileplume because it needs them out of the way to put in the most work. 252 Atk with Choice Band to get the absolute nuclear damage Darmanitan is great for. 252 Spe with a Jolly nature to go as fast as possible. Flare Blitz is the main STAB move and what I usually click, simply because under the sun, nearly everything just explodes from Flare Blitz. Earthquake and Rock Slide for covering what doesn't immediately die to a Flare Blitz. U-Turn to grab momentum sometimes. But really this pokemon exists on the team for one reason: Flare Blitz.

Mandibuzz @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Foul Play
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost

I dislike scarfed Dragapult. In fact, I dislike Dragapult in general. This is my answer to not only Dragapult, but scarfed Hydreigon and (almost) any Aegislash. Heavy Duty Boots to not die from Stealth Rocks. 252 HP and 252 SpD with a Calm Nature to maximize special bulk. Foul Play to net kills on physical monsters that want to hurt my Mandibuzz. U-Turn to grab momentum. Defog to make sure my fire types don't die from Stealth Rocks (and spikes I guess.) Roost for survivability. This thing is my big wall and helps me switch into things safely without losing one of my powerhouses.

Aegislash (M) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Shadow Sneak
- Solar Blade
- Swords Dance

Aegislash is here mainly to act as a spinblocker and put pressure on Fairy types like Clefable. Especially Clefable. I also wanted to try Solar Blade in the sun to help net some surprise kills on overconfident Water types. Air Balloon to help Aegislash switch in to Excadrill. 252 Atk with Adamant nature to maximize damage. 252 Spe to go as fast as possible. Iron Head as the main STAB move. Shadow Sneak for extra priority. Solar Blade in the sun allows Aegislash to nuke the likes of Seismitoad, Rotom-W, Gastrodon, whatever Water type wants to switch in on it, which takes some of the load off of Vileplume. Swords Dance to allow for a potential sweep.

Heliolisk (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Volt Switch
- Weather Ball
- Dragon Pulse

This thing is the sleeper hit of the team. I needed something to outspeed (most of) the many Scarf mons in the tier, as well as act as a revenge killer. This thing does it. Under the sun, Solar Power boosts Heliolisk's damage and allows it to be the sleeper threat of the team. 252 SpA to bolster that damage as much as possible. 252 Spe with Choice Scarf and Timid Nature to be the fastest electric lizard under the sun. Hyper Voice for a good neutral STAB move. Volt Switch as my other STAB move, allows me to hit hard and not take Solar Power damage. Weather Ball gets boosted to a 100 base power Fire type move under the sun, which is incredible for hitting steel types and opposing Venusaur hard, giving Vileplume more leeway to deal damage. Dragon Pulse kills scarfed Hydreigon and non-scarfed Dragapult. All in all, this thing has helped me clutch out wins a ton, and I consider it one of the star players.


Thank you for taking the time to look through my team. I'm hoping to get some good advice on it, as it seems to be...weak in some regards. With that said, I have no plans to replace Vileplume with Venusaur. I fully believe Vileplume can carve out its own niche as a sun sweeper, and without Vileplume the main reason I made this team in the first place would be gone. Any other criticism, including potential moveslot changes for Vileplume, is greatly appreciated!

​

Full Import

Torkoal (M) @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Body Press
- Yawn
- Stealth Rock

Vileplume (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Wave
- Moonblast
- Sleep Powder

Darmanitan (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn

Mandibuzz @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Foul Play
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost

Aegislash (M) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Shadow Sneak
- Solar Blade
- Swords Dance

Heliolisk (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Volt Switch
- Weather Ball
- Dragon Pulse

​

​

 

[blueman164]

Bump.

 

[theotherguytm]

Hello! I've run the calcs and sadly there is a problem...
Ok, from the top, if you want to keep Vileplume over Venusaur, you need a reason to use Vileplume. Moonblast and 10 SpA points is your reason. Venu still outdamages us by running Modest thanks to its much better speed so... But anyway, we need to utilise Moonblast and maximise damage output to break things Venu can't.
252 SpA Life Orb Vileplume Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 374-439 (94.9 - 111.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Vileplume Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 105-125 (34.5 - 41.1%) -- 53.3% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
...Not going to lie, this isn't very impressive. We're missing a key tool in our arsenal. Growth.
Vileplume @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Growth
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Wave
- Moonblast
This set maximises damage at the expense of longevity. But hey, if you wanted longevity, you would need Venu. Here are the new calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Vileplume Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 393-463 (99.7 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Vileplume Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 333-394 (109.5 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Much better. But let's ask the question: What does Moonblast allow us to beat that Solar Beam doesn't?
Solar Beam: 180 BP after STAB
Moonblast: 190 BP if Super Effective
So to make Moonblast worthwhile, the target has to resist Solar Beam and be weak to Moonblast, or be 4* weak to Moonblast:

Every OU viable Pokemon that meets the above

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Vileplume Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 356-421 (83.9 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (does not kill from full)
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Vileplume Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 390-460 (120 - 141.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Moonblast unneeded)
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Vileplume Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kommo-o: 343-406 (96.8 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (Moonblast again unneeded)
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Vileplume Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 285-335 (89.9 - 105.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (sad face)
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Vileplume Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hawlucha: 523-616 (176 - 207.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Vileplume Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dracozolt: 481-567 (149.8 - 176.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Vileplume Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Haxorus: 477-563 (162.7 - 192.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Vileplume Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem: 390-460 (99.7 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Vileplume Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Virizion: 572-678 (177 - 209.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So Moonblast does not allow us to kill anything our STABs don't already murder. Thus, we are forced to conclude that Vileplume is not viable in OU. Try RU instead, where all the parts of Sun exist and are much better due to a weaker tier and no Venu. Have a nice day!

 

[blueman164]

I believe you've missed a big point of Vileplume on this team, theotherguytm; Vileplume forms a sort of combo with Darmanitan by sleeping a potential switch-in with Sleep Powder, giving Darm a free switch-in and allowing it to nuke one (or more, if you're lucky) pokemon on the enemy team under the sun. I believe Vileplume better fits this role than Venusaur because of Moonblast allowing it to cover checks that it normally couldn't without boosting, such as Hydreigon and Kommo-o, the latter being a particularly tough pokemon for Sun teams due to its bulk and fire resistance.

 

[theotherguytm]

I believe you've missed a big point of Vileplume on this team, theotherguytm; Vileplume forms a sort of combo with Darmanitan by sleeping a potential switch-in with Sleep Powder, giving Darm a free switch-in and allowing it to nuke one (or more, if you're lucky) pokemon on the enemy team under the sun. I believe Vileplume better fits this role than Venusaur because of Moonblast allowing it to cover checks that it normally couldn't without boosting, such as Hydreigon and Kommo-o, the latter being a particularly tough pokemon for Sun teams due to its bulk and fire resistance.

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Weather Ball
- Solar Beam
- Growth
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Vileplume Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 390-460 (120 - 141.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Moonblast unneeded)
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Vileplume Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kommo-o: 343-406 (96.8 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (Moonblast again unneeded)
Sorry, but no. The "without boosting" thing is eh, since you'll always be faster than them in Sun and can Growth in the switch in. (Wait, nevermind, Scarf Hydreigon is faster than Vileplume in sun wow this is garbage)
Also:
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 253-298 (77.8 - 91.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kommo-o: 222-263 (62.7 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Kommo-o Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Venusaur: 91-108 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- 39.9% chance to 3HKO (how is this a threat)
I get it, you like Vileplume. But you're clutching at straws here. Venu just does everything Vile does better, and Moonblast isn't enough of a reason to use Vileplume. If you want to OHKO Hydreigon and Kommo, run Sludge Bomb on Venu (Soundproof is generally more used on Kommo because it removes its weakness to Sylveon's Hyper Voice). Again, I suggest you take this to RU, where Vileplume Sun is viable due to Venu still being UU.

 

[LionHeartz420]

Hello everyone! This is my first RMT ever, so forgive it for not being quite as flashy as most. I wanted to build a Sun team around one of my favorite pokemon, Vileplume, and decided to pair it with a new toy we got from HOME, Unovan Darmanitan. This is what I ended up making.

The Team:

View attachment 223769View attachment 223764View attachment 223765View attachment 223766View attachment 223767View attachment 223768



The Sets:

View attachment 223770

Torkoal (M) @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Body Press
- Yawn
- Stealth Rock

The standard sun-setter Torkoal. A must have for sun teams for...well, obvious reasons. Heat Rock to extend Sun's duration as this team heavily relies on it being up. 248 HP because I believe it takes less from stealth rocks that way? 252 Defense with a Bold Nature to maximize his physical bulk. The rest in special attack for that sick Lava Plume damage. 0 Attack IVs to minimize Foul Play Damage. Lava Plume as a STAB move that can also spread burns. Body Press to abuse Torkoal's incredibly high Defense stat and hit some pokemon harder than a Lava Plume could. Yawn to force switches. Stealth Rock to get some extra chip on the enemy team. Nothing incredibly special here, would like some suggestions on moves to run (Yawn hasn't gotten me much use.)

View attachment 223773

Vileplume (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Wave
- Moonblast
- Sleep Powder

The pokemon I mainly wanted to build around on this team. I realize Venusaur gets Weather Ball now, but what he doesn't get is Moonblast, which can seriously threaten some problematic pokemon like Mandibuzz, Dracovish, and Kommo-o. Max SpA with a Life Orb to get the most damage out of Vileplume. 252 Spe with a Timid Nature to go as fast as possible and threaten pokemon under the sun that would otherwise outspeed the Plume. 0 Atk to once again minimize Foul Play damage. Giga Drain as a grass-type STAB move that can recover some health to offset the Life Orb damage. Sludge Wave as a stronger poison STAB than Sludge Bomb, and the strongest move on this set. Moonblast to cover pokemon like those that I brought up earlier. Sleep Powder to have some means of punishing Steel types for switching in on Vileplume, which is the biggest problem for it. Which brings us to the next pokemon...

View attachment 223775

Darmanitan (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn

This dude is a nuke under the sun, plain and simple. Steel types quiver in fear at the very sight of this absolute monster, which is good news for Vileplume because it needs them out of the way to put in the most work. 252 Atk with Choice Band to get the absolute nuclear damage Darmanitan is great for. 252 Spe with a Jolly nature to go as fast as possible. Flare Blitz is the main STAB move and what I usually click, simply because under the sun, nearly everything just explodes from Flare Blitz. Earthquake and Rock Slide for covering what doesn't immediately die to a Flare Blitz. U-Turn to grab momentum sometimes. But really this pokemon exists on the team for one reason: Flare Blitz.

View attachment 223776

Mandibuzz @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Foul Play
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost

I dislike scarfed Dragapult. In fact, I dislike Dragapult in general. This is my answer to not only Dragapult, but scarfed Hydreigon and (almost) any Aegislash. Heavy Duty Boots to not die from Stealth Rocks. 252 HP and 252 SpD with a Calm Nature to maximize special bulk. Foul Play to net kills on physical monsters that want to hurt my Mandibuzz. U-Turn to grab momentum. Defog to make sure my fire types don't die from Stealth Rocks (and spikes I guess.) Roost for survivability. This thing is my big wall and helps me switch into things safely without losing one of my powerhouses.

View attachment 223777

Aegislash (M) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Shadow Sneak
- Solar Blade
- Swords Dance

Aegislash is here mainly to act as a spinblocker and put pressure on Fairy types like Clefable. Especially Clefable. I also wanted to try Solar Blade in the sun to help net some surprise kills on overconfident Water types. Air Balloon to help Aegislash switch in to Excadrill. 252 Atk with Adamant nature to maximize damage. 252 Spe to go as fast as possible. Iron Head as the main STAB move. Shadow Sneak for extra priority. Solar Blade in the sun allows Aegislash to nuke the likes of Seismitoad, Rotom-W, Gastrodon, whatever Water type wants to switch in on it, which takes some of the load off of Vileplume. Swords Dance to allow for a potential sweep.

View attachment 223778

Heliolisk (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Volt Switch
- Weather Ball
- Dragon Pulse

This thing is the sleeper hit of the team. I needed something to outspeed (most of) the many Scarf mons in the tier, as well as act as a revenge killer. This thing does it. Under the sun, Solar Power boosts Heliolisk's damage and allows it to be the sleeper threat of the team. 252 SpA to bolster that damage as much as possible. 252 Spe with Choice Scarf and Timid Nature to be the fastest electric lizard under the sun. Hyper Voice for a good neutral STAB move. Volt Switch as my other STAB move, allows me to hit hard and not take Solar Power damage. Weather Ball gets boosted to a 100 base power Fire type move under the sun, which is incredible for hitting steel types and opposing Venusaur hard, giving Vileplume more leeway to deal damage. Dragon Pulse kills scarfed Hydreigon and non-scarfed Dragapult. All in all, this thing has helped me clutch out wins a ton, and I consider it one of the star players.


Thank you for taking the time to look through my team. I'm hoping to get some good advice on it, as it seems to be...weak in some regards. With that said, I have no plans to replace Vileplume with Venusaur. I fully believe Vileplume can carve out its own niche as a sun sweeper, and without Vileplume the main reason I made this team in the first place would be gone. Any other criticism, including potential moveslot changes for Vileplume, is greatly appreciated!

​

Full Import

Torkoal (M) @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Body Press
- Yawn
- Stealth Rock

Vileplume (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Wave
- Moonblast
- Sleep Powder

Darmanitan (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn

Mandibuzz @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Foul Play
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost

Aegislash (M) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Shadow Sneak
- Solar Blade
- Swords Dance

Heliolisk (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Volt Switch
- Weather Ball
- Dragon Pulse

​

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Just played a few hours on the ladder with this build and its really fun the only thing that hard walled me were from personal mistakes, like sacking torkoal early and opening cinderace to punch through the team with sucker/sun boosted pyro ball. And allowing a bisharp to get an sd and just be able to destroy everything. But those were my mistakes not the build. Very fun team :D

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Weather Ball
- Solar Beam
- Growth
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Vileplume Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 390-460 (120 - 141.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Moonblast unneeded)
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Vileplume Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kommo-o: 343-406 (96.8 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (Moonblast again unneeded)
Sorry, but no. The "without boosting" thing is eh, since you'll always be faster than them in Sun and can Growth in the switch in. (Wait, nevermind, Scarf Hydreigon is faster than Vileplume in sun wow this is garbage)
Also:
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 253-298 (77.8 - 91.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kommo-o: 222-263 (62.7 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Kommo-o Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Venusaur: 91-108 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- 39.9% chance to 3HKO (how is this a threat)
I get it, you like Vileplume. But you're clutching at straws here. Venu just does everything Vile does better, and Moonblast isn't enough of a reason to use Vileplume. If you want to OHKO Hydreigon and Kommo, run Sludge Bomb on Venu (Soundproof is generally more used on Kommo because it removes its weakness to Sylveon's Hyper Voice). Again, I suggest you take this to RU, where Vileplume Sun is viable due to Venu still being UU.

Having played a few hours i didnt find myself in a situation thinking that if I had growth venu I wouldve won the games I lost. Playing in OU the combo of grass/poison/fairy is actually ridiculous coverage and made for a great combo with darm. I think overall youre right that venu is better but vile definitely wasnt useless even in ou. Also kommo should always be bulletproof with how much shadowball is in the tier, you should be switching or running something like ironhead on the switch to deal with sylveon and even then sylveon is a lesser threat and doesnt jsutify at all objectively making your kommo weaker

 

[theotherguytm]

Having played a few hours i didnt find myself in a situation thinking that if I had growth venu I wouldve won the games I lost.

They are mostly similar, just things like Vile getting outrun by Scarf Hydreigon and up and not having the coverage to break Steels. 4/5 times they do a similar job, the 1/5 Venu is always better so...

Playing in OU the combo of grass/poison/fairy is actually ridiculous coverage and made for a great combo with darm.

If you read the calcs I posted, you'll see that there are no mons in OU where you benefit from the extra coverage of Moonblast.

Also kommo should always be bulletproof with how much shadowball is in the tier, you should be switching or running something like ironhead on the switch to deal with sylveon and even then sylveon is a lesser threat and doesnt jsutify at all objectively making your kommo weaker

This is fair.
Anyway, I came up with a last, LAST resort set that is technically something Venu can't do.
Vileplume @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Growth
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Wave
- Strength Sap
Still worse than just running Synthesis on Venu, but there we are. If you really don't want to use Venu, but need a mon with different niche:
Shiftry @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Growth
- Knock Off
- Heat Wave
- Solar Blade
Shiftry's mixed breaking capabilities and access to Knock Off make it incredibly hard to wall. Firing 125 BP Solar Blades into neutral targets means it actually hits slightly harder than Venu without accounting for the meta leaning to physical bulk. Heat Wave breaks Steels for fun, and Knock is a move no Pokemon wants to be hit by, especially as hard as Shiftry can hit with it.

 

[LionHeartz420]

They are mostly similar, just things like Vile getting outrun by Scarf Hydreigon and up and not having the coverage to break Steels. 4/5 times they do a similar job, the 1/5 Venu is always better so...

If you read the calcs I posted, you'll see that there are no mons in OU where you benefit from the extra coverage of Moonblast.

This is fair.
Anyway, I came up with a last, LAST resort set that is technically something Venu can't do.
Vileplume @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Growth
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Wave
- Strength Sap
Still worse than just running Synthesis on Venu, but there we are. If you really don't want to use Venu, but need a mon with different niche:
Shiftry @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Growth
- Knock Off
- Heat Wave
- Solar Blade
Shiftry's mixed breaking capabilities and access to Knock Off make it incredibly hard to wall. Firing 125 BP Solar Blades into neutral targets means it actually hits slightly harder than Venu without accounting for the meta leaning to physical bulk. Heat Wave breaks Steels for fun, and Knock is a move no Pokemon wants to be hit by, especially as hard as Shiftry can hit with it.

Its funny you bring up shiftry, I think in a meta game with dynamaxing sun/shiftry is absolutely terrifying. I think it has great coverage potential it just gets forced out really easily by the abundance of u-turn out of sun. Im actually gonna plug shiftry into this build as is and give it whirl.

As a side note I think the sleeper best part of this team is the solar blade aegi. Its so unexpected and nuking seismitoads all day everyday is INTENSELY satisfying.

Back to your original point its not debatable that venu is the better mon but I personally didnt find myself unviable while running vile. If I was a higher ladder player or trying to play as seriously as possible its no question who I would go with.