Pokémon Volcanion

[Valmanway]

This happens every single new generation. 'Look at this slow bulky mon, look how it can 2hko everything with a choice ite-WHAT DO YOU MEAN RHYPERIOR IS UU'. I know that's a bad example, but this happens every single time.

The reason why Rhyperior was dropped to UU is because of his bad defensive typing and poor special defense, even with Solid Rock patching up weaknesses, as well as terrible speed. While Volcanion's weak to Stealth Rock and lacks reliable recovery, he has a much more well-rounded stat spread, tanking physical and special attacks alike, and his base 70 speed isn't the worst (if you tie with Skarmory in speed, you're doing alright for a wall), and you can't say his typing doesn't help defensively, bringing critical 4x resistances to Fire, Ice, and Steel, as well as Bug and Fairy resistances. Sure, EdgeQuake and Electric weaknesses hurt, but checking/countering Mega Scizor, Mega Mawile, Azumarill, Greninja, offensive Deoxys-S, Gengar, Mega Charizard Y, and Talonflame at once is too good to dismiss just like that, not to mention taking on opposing walls such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Heatran by himself is very convenient. Plus, switching in on Water-type moves with Water Absorb is decent recovery that presents a free switch and basically negates Stealth Rock damage if you predict correctly, but if your opponent doesn't want to use a Water-type move, you could predict that and use that to your advantage. I know it's too early to tell where exactly Volcanion's place in OU will be, and we do need to do tests in order to see how things will play out, but he looks amazing on paper, and he really does show promise.

 

[Strykeypoo]

That doesn't support your argument at all suggesting a Life Orb would be better. And how else do you expect to play a bulky menace like Volcanion without slow U-Turns or switching into obvious Fire, Water, Ice and Steel moves? Of course you don't switch Volcanion into Garchomp or Tyranitar, but you don't switch Heatran into those either, nor would you give Heatran a Life Orb. O_o This plead to prediction is a universal component for any pokemons success, but the point is the combination of Specs STAB Overheat and Steam Eruption being so naturally powerful and difficult to switch into that the risk/reward ratio of such a set is greatly in Volcanion's favor. Ironically other Volcanion are pretty much the safest switch and even they fear Stone Edge/Earthquake. So I don't understand the consistency in your arguments. And I'd hardly say Volcanion and Heatran are interchangeable. Many of their weaknesses are different and Volcanion has a much stronger spammable move.

I wouldn't run Life Orb. My point about Life Orb was that Choice Specs is a bad item in OU, with empirical evidence being on my side right now. I'd probably run the thing like a Heatran. Bulky with leftovers or Air Balloon. Like Heatran, that Ground weakness is what makes it difficult to switch into so many top threats in OU. Actually being able to switch in for free and then threaten things with the 110 Scald or even a Will-o-Wisp/Toxic is so good. That or sub + 3 attacks, but also with leftovers.

Volcanion @ Air Balloon/Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 172 Spd / 252 HP / 84 SAtk
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-o-Wisp/Toxic
- Steam Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Protect

Spread status, do damage, give no fucks. If you ever played with Jellicent last gen you know that double status is not a bad thing, before people inevitably complain.

The reason why Rhyperior was dropped to UU is because of his bad defensive typing and poor special defense, even with Solid Rock patching up weaknesses, as well as terrible speed.

The reason why Rhyperior was dropped to UU is because of his bad defensive typing and poor special defense, even with Solid Rock patching up weaknesses, as well as terrible speed.

I know, Rhyperior is largely garbage, I was joking. My point was that this has happened in full force since 4th gen. Getting excited about big damage that doesn't mean anything when you can get outsped and killed by all the big threats in the tier.

 

[Jaroda]

I don't disagree that bulky defensive sets for Volcanion would work extremely well and probably his best option, but he does have a niche and the stats, typing and moves to make a specs set work. An item's usefulness is dependent on the pokemon itself not the tier. If specs were a bad item it wouldn't be used at all, but it does have niche uses like Keldeo and Trick Rotom/Latios. Volcanion could be next, and I'm certainly going to test when it comes out. But Life Orb is not better on this pokemon,it looks safe to say

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Choice Specs is a perfectly fine item on Volcanion. Life Orb might be the better item if Volcanion had a huge need to switch coverage moves or use some sort of status move, but it really doesn't. Steam Eruption is probably the most spammable attack in the game. It has pretty solid neutral coverage in general, it's pretty darn powerful with STAB, it's almost perfectly accurate, it's coming off a base 130 SpA stat, and it has a shot at screwing over Pokemon that can actually take the hit with a burn. Being able to spam an attack like that with a Choice Specs boost is outright scary. Life Orb is a lot worse for a couple of reasons. First of all, you lost a good bit of power, which, as Jaroda demonstrated, can actually matter a good chunk of the time. There's also the Life Orb recoil that you have to deal with, which cuts into Volcanion's solid bulk. I also really don't see why switching moves is all that important when your main STAB is so easily spammed. If you want to use a boosting item, Choice Specs is easily the best one.

 

[InfinitySlayer]

I wouldnt run mixed volcanion, it is outclassed by infernape, who has no stealth rock weakness, better speed and physical movepool.
Volcanions should just stick to sub 3 attacks, defensive, life orb, AV and maybe specs

I can see where you are coming from, but mixed doesn't miss out on any important kills. The better speed bought by Infernape is massively compensated for in much higher attacking stats and much x 3 better defensive stats. Looking at general threats Volcanion would be used against:

0 Atk Volcanion Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Scizor: 316-376 (91.8 - 109.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO -- (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
0 Atk Volcanion Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Mawile: 170-204 (55.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Volcanion Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 384-452 (128.8 - 151.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and just for an idea about its bulk:252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Assault Vest Volcanion: 67-81 (19.4 - 23.5%) -- possible 5HKO

Also, against some defensive mons:
0 Atk Volcanion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 296-352 (76.6 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery whereas in return,
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Assault Vest Volcanion: 92-110 (26.7 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
And depending on whichever Skarmory set, either of Flare Blitz or Steam Eruption are guaranteed 2HKO's after leftovers recovery. Most of these guys can't touch Volcanion in return.
Focus Blast can also be completely dropped in favour of Stone Edge and then some extra EV's can be added to Attack in exchange for some bulk. Unboosted 130 SpA STAB Steam Eruption is still hitting very hard.

 

[HauntedPumpkin]

What does Flare Blitz hit better than Fire Blast? I don't think the recoil is worth the acuraccy, imo, especially since it apparently doesn't have recovery and it's rather slow. You're better off hitting Ferrothorn, Skarm, Scizor, Aegi (!!), Gourgeist, Bisharp, Excadrill, Chesnaught (unless it's ability blocks it, irdk), etc with Fire Blast unless I'm missing something here. It should only be using Stone Edge for stuff like flying Dragons/Gyarados or Earthquake for Tentacruel or w/e and coverage in general as it's physical moves. I think it'll use HP grass for Waters quite often too.

The Specially defensive set has potential, although it really sucks that it's vulnerable to Toxic, unlike Heatran. :/

 

[Logic]

Um this is spoiler so if you don't want spoilers dont click.

spoiler

user Lopunny posted this and said "[00:37:23] ♀Lopunny: Now whether or not it was Nintendo being lazy isn't known." Maybe Hoenn Remake O.o

 

[Valmanway]

Um this is spoiler so if you don't want spoilers dont click.

spoiler

user Lopunny posted this and said "[00:37:23] ♀Lopunny: Now whether or not it was Nintendo being lazy isn't known." Maybe Hoenn Remake O.o

I'd freaking love it if this were true. Though Mega Lati@s and Mega Blaziken kind of confirmed that for me.

 

[TheTraininator]

Um this is spoiler so if you don't want spoilers dont click.

spoiler

user Lopunny posted this and said "[00:37:23] ♀Lopunny: Now whether or not it was Nintendo being lazy isn't known." Maybe Hoenn Remake O.o

To be fair, you can get the "Hoenn Region" text in the main game too if you just import from rse to 4th gen and then through 6th gen, just like you could get Kanto, Johto, Sinnoh, and Unova. This Volcanion may have been hacked to have the hatch archetype text with the usually import-only location "Hoenn Region" set as the hatch location.

Not that I don't want a Hoenn remake, though.

 

[InfinitySlayer]

Agreed, Fire Blast is better at hitting those Pokemon. Although Aegi can be hit with EQ.

 

[Logic]

To be fair, you can get the "Hoenn Region" text in the main game too if you just import from rse to 4th gen and then through 6th gen, just like you could get Kanto, Johto, Sinnoh, and Unova. This Volcanion may have been hacked to have the hatch archetype text with the usually import-only location "Hoenn Region" set as the hatch location.

Not that I don't want a Hoenn remake, though.

You could be completely right, but I trust Lopunny when she said thats the way it came

 

[TheTraininator]

You could be completely right, but I trust Lopunny when she said thats the way it came

I don't doubt she's telling the truth at all, I'm just saying that whoever originally hacked that Volcanion was most likely just screwing around with text options, now that the X and Y ROM data is the hacker community's plaything.

 

[Logic]

I don't doubt she's telling the truth at all, I'm just saying that whoever originally hacked that Volcanion was most likely just screwing around with text options, now that the X and Y ROM data is the hacker community's plaything.

She is one of the people who create pokegen so she has access to all the file dumps

 

[TheTraininator]

She is one of the people who create pokegen so she has access to all the file dumps

Ah. In that case, she probably found it in the code and forgot about the import text. Although I really want a Hoenn remake like most, and though that text may get used for dual purposes, this is technically not proof of Hoenn yet.

Anyway, back to Volcanion, this dude's baller. I know it has drawn a lot of comparison to Heatran already, but for good reason. It's similar enough to it that they will generally compete for a teamslot, bur different enough that they will both still have their merits. And there is no way it is dropping out of OU with that freaking Hydro Scald. It is definitely up there with Mewtwo, Shaymin, and Darkrai in the "best signature move department."

Also, I shudder to think that the Earth power tutor might be returning...

 

[InfinitySlayer]

Simply, Heatran is better at taking hits, and Volcanion is (currently) better at dishing out damage.
Praying for some form of recovery tho

 

[NickFusi0n]

Question, I've seen way too many different answers but...

What is Steam Eruption's burn chance?

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

Question, I've seen way too many different answers but...

What is Steam Eruption's burn chance?

30%

 

[NickFusi0n]

30%

Thanks!

 

[Thunderorange]

A fire water type! I was so excited when this was announced. Looking at it's stats and typing this thing will be a monster. Decent defence and attack, great special attack, only three weaknesses and 4 resistences plus an immunity. I wonder where the event is.

 

[Olly]

My first take on Volcanion is this.

Volcanion @ Leftovers
Calm Nature
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Steam Eruption
Flamethrower / Fire Blast
Toxic
Protect

This has the potential to check/counter a wide variety of dangerous Pokemon such as Aegislash, Azumarill, Charizard Y, Mega Scizor.

 

[mikelos]

can't wait till we get this

 

[DuskSoul]

Has anyone considered using Assault Vest Volcanion on a Rain team? Because I think it will be awesome!
252+ SpA Volcanion (No Move) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur in Rain: 120-142 (32.9 - 39%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
vs.
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Volcanion: 79-94 (22.9 - 27.3%) -- 59.9% chance to 4HKO

It also works as a really nice "counter" to mega Char Y if he wants to stop our fun in the rain:
252 SpA Volcanion (No Move) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 152-180 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (a water move under the sun!)
252 SpA Volcanion Hidden Power Rock vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 224-264 (75.1 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Volcanion Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 340-404 (114 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- Atk Volcanion Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 256-304 (85.9 - 102%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

While Mega Char Y can only do:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Volcanion: 94-111 (27.3 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Volcanion: 88-105 (25.5 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Volcanion: 94-112 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (added just to have a SE attack and compare)

 

[Arhan]

I dunno but he kind of reminds me of Lucario,but a bit defensive,they are a bit similar to me

 

[Cataclyptic]

Ah... Pardon my not contributing to the discussion but I just want to say: I cannot WAIT for this thing to come out. Fire/water is just a cool typing, and now I hear it gets a buffed Scald AND water absorb!? Me want.

 

[Salemance]

Has anyone considered using Assault Vest Volcanion on a Rain team? Because I think it will be awesome!
252+ SpA Volcanion (No Move) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur in Rain: 120-142 (32.9 - 39%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
vs.
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Volcanion: 79-94 (22.9 - 27.3%) -- 59.9% chance to 4HKO

It also works as a really nice "counter" to mega Char Y if he wants to stop our fun in the rain:
252 SpA Volcanion (No Move) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 152-180 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (a water move under the sun!)
252 SpA Volcanion Hidden Power Rock vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 224-264 (75.1 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Volcanion Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 340-404 (114 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- Atk Volcanion Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 256-304 (85.9 - 102%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

While Mega Char Y can only do:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Volcanion: 94-111 (27.3 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Volcanion: 88-105 (25.5 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Volcanion: 94-112 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (added just to have a SE attack and compare)

Air Slash is a useless Calc almost, and HP Electric is an odd choice for Char Y...one of the most known coverage moves is Earthquake, which does:

0 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 128-152 (37.2 - 44.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I'd say its not a full on counter, unless you ensure it switches into SR, and come in on Fire Blast without SR hitting you...shaky maybe?