Wait it Out (OU Stall)

[Thorns]

This was the last project for me of the Tutoring Program - a stall team.

Team At A Glance

Paladin (Hippowdon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP/16 Atk/152 Def/88 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off

Sets up the rocks, doesn't have trouble with most leads other than Azelf, which is why I have...

Gladiator (Rotom-w) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/92 Def/8 Spd/16 SAtk/140 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Discharge
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Isn't 2HKOd by Azelf's Psychic, so it can Rest off the damage and whack Azelf with Sleep Talk. Blocks Rapid Spin too, which is a core part of my team. In my other team I had Rotom-h bluffing Overheat, and this time I'm bluffing Hydro Pump. What this does is allows me a switchin on Heatran, who will probably always expect Hydro Pump on the ghostly washing machine.

Elementalist (Tentacruel) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP/120 Atk/136 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Surf
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Sludge Bomb

My Mixape counter, and Toxic Spikes/Rapid Spinner.

Ranger (Skarmory) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/96 Atk/156 Def/4 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Whirlwind

Again, basic. Sets up the Spikes, counters physical attackers, what have you.

Ravager (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP/252 Def/252 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Softboiled

I've noticed this team has trouble with Calm Minders, so I decided to use CM Bliss to take even more hits and retaliate.

Juggler (Shaymin-s) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Air Slash
- Earth Power

The last piece of this team. Can clean up nicely with Air Slash and Earth Power, and can provide extra stalling with SubSeed.

FFTA2 is awesome, yep.

Thanks in advance to anyone who rates.

 

[reachzero]

You really should have something on your Rotom-W to discourage CB Tyranitar from switching in and Pursuiting/Crunching you, since it will always OHKO. Very few people seem to believe that Rotom-W will actually carry Hydro Pump, and I've had a number of people switch T-Tar in on mine already (even though I use both WoW and Hydro Pump).

 

[Xelltrix]

Wow, this team is almost identical to mine, except for move lists and the last Pokemon, so really, I'll look forward to comments about this team too. For instance, I use Rest on my Tentacruel because I use Aromatheropy on Blissey. Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is, I think I will keep an eye on this topic just to see the suggestions you get.


(And FFT ftw)

 

[Professor Dick Weed]

Well, I have a recomendation instead of shaymin. You could possibly make a breloom instead of him to take care of the aforementioned tyranitar weakness. all of the steels and poisons which resist/absorb toxic spikes can be spored and then u can either focus punch them to oblivion or u can switch out to an appropriate counter such as hippowdon to eq them. Tentacruel covers his fire and ice weaknesses well, and all the crunchs which rotom will be threatened w/ will be taken by breloom like a monster.

 

[Bogmire]

well I seriously hope you don't really switch rotom into tran, since its 2HKOed by fire blast no matter how much special defense EVs you give it.

You really should have something on your Rotom-W to discourage CB Tyranitar from switching in and Pursuiting/Crunching you, since it will always OHKO. Very few people seem to believe that Rotom-W will actually carry Hydro Pump, and I've had a number of people switch T-Tar in on mine already (even though I use both WoW and Hydro Pump).

The problem with will-o-wisp is that it interferes with toxic spikes, the problem with hydro pump is its low pp and ttar doesn't give a shit about it since it struggles to 3HKO, and only 4HKOs specially defensive variants.

I would go with max hp/max def on skarmory, because I've used that spread thats standard for some reason before and I've found many many times that it really needs those extra defense EVs to take on powerful CB or boosted assaults. The attack EVs are completely arbitrary and serve no real purpose.

 

[Venom]

I don't see how he is Tyranitar weak as he has a Hippowodon, who shrugs off the damage done by CB Tyranitar with Slack Off.

From the looks of it, opposing stall teams can be problems, mostly because of the lack of a Wish passer for this team. In all honesty as much as you fear Calm Minders, the team will benefit much more from a Wish Passing Blissey, Blissey was blessed with the ability to learn Wish, so maybe you should consider it. You can lose Calm Mind really, and the other moves as well, for something like Wish / Protect / Flamethrower or Ice Beam / Siesmic Toss, Wish for the team healing support, while Wish + Protect let Blissey heal itself, otherwise how is your only health support pokemon supposed to heal safely, and Protect for some Toxic stalling. Flamethrower or Ice Beam is a matter of personal choice, both decent but Flamethrower hits pokemon that try to come and set up their Spikes, such as Fortress and Skarmory, and Seismic Toss to take down bulky pokemon, Zapdos and Swampert are on the list. I'm worried that Sword Dance Pokemon can be problems here as well, as and Adamant Sword Dance Lucario's Close Combat does 62.86% - 74.29% after a Sword Dance, meaning a 2HKO, which isn't safe at all. I would strongly suggest switching Rotom-W with Rotom-H. Why? Like you said, bluffing Overheat works in Pokemon too, so I don't see the exception here either. Rotom-H will be covering Lucario and other Fighting types as well, and SD Scizor as well, and give you more edge. You don't have to have Overheat, although I would recommend it, though the SleepTalk set works too, but if you're willing to give it up, Discharge / Shadow Ball / Overheat / WoW or Reflect will work much better, Reflect or WoW helping you out with scaring Tyranitar and others.

If you still fear Calm Minders, swapping out Skymin-S would be the best idea. One idea can be a Perish Song Celebi, just like Obi's Stall team, which its purpose is mostly for Calm Mind Suicunes / Clefables, that are always dangerous to any stall team if you can't beat it. Celebi will probably add coverage against Gyarados, but I don't see it doing anymore. You can always try your own Tyranitar or Fighting type, to defeat the Calm Minders, though you'll be gambling the Pokemons life in the switch in, as Calm Minded Attacks hurt.

 

[NerfThePokeBattler]

Everything runs smoothly, or it should, only things I see in this team are IMO I'd change Keen Eye for Sturdy on Skarmory. Explosion isn't that effective to it, but it's a good switch it on an exploder, nonetheless, but I think it's better than Keen Eye, because no-one will be lowering your accuracy any time soon in a match, unless you run into a rare user with sand attack/mud slap/flash. Also, I'm a bit curious 'bout the Skymin finisher. I suppose the time you wear and tear his team down you rip it in half after with Skymin. I like the other guys idea as well, where he rests his stuff up then Aromatherapy with Blissey.

-Nerf.

 

[Thorns]

Thanks for all the help.

I don't have access to Shoddy where I am now, so I can't test, but here are the changes.

- Skymin is a standard Breloom.
- Skarmory dropped the Atk EVs for max Def.
- Rotom-w is Rotom-h, and not bluffing Overheat.
- Blissey is WishBliss.
-

 

[EndlersaurusRex]

I don't see how he is Tyranitar weak as he has a Hippowodon, who shrugs off the damage done by CB Tyranitar with Slack Off.

With the ever-common Aqua Tail, Tyranitar can 2HKO Hippowdon, which means Slack Off won't succeed in the long run. Due to this, nothing you have can take Tyranitar too well, since your best chance against him with either using Hydro Pump (which you aren't doing) or Seed Flare (which you also aren't doing). SubSeed may work, but there's other glaring weaknesses too. For example, Heatran doesn't fear anything on your lineup barring Earthquake from Hippowdon and perhaps a Surf from Tentacruel. If you run into a Choice Specs Heatran, however, a OHKO on Hippowdon is possible with that EV spread, and is guaranteed if he gets a Flash Fire boost. The common Choice Scarf Heatran can get a OHKO occasionally with SR support on Hippowdon, and always 3HKOs max SpDef Tentacruel with Earth Power. The rarer Choice Specs version OHKOs Max HP / Max SpDef Tentacruel with SR support some of the time if it has a Flash Fire boost. Your spread would always be a OHKO to a Flash Fire boost. Your Tentacruel set (I'm assuming it's 120 SpAttack EVs, not Attack?) does 2HKO Heatran, though.

You should mainly look to fix your Tyranitar weakness. If Tyranitar takes out Hippowdon and Tentacruel, which he easily can (2HKO with Aqua Tail and OHKO with Stone Edge / EQ, respectively. 2HKO with Crunch), Heatran would be free to rampage your team, aside from Blissey. Tyranitar can also easily take down Blissey, though. It doesn't have to be just Heatran. Zapdos, Scizor, Salamence and other big threats can just you a lot of harm too.

 

[Venom]

With the ever-common Aqua Tail, Tyranitar can 2HKO Hippowdon, which
means Slack Off won't succeed in the long run. Due to this, nothing you
have can take Tyranitar too well, since your best chance against him
with either using Hydro Pump (which you aren't doing) or Seed Flare
(which you also aren't doing).

| Tyranitar | Move | Fire Punch | 11.0 |
| Tyranitar | Move | Aqua Tail | 8.5 |

yeah

 

[Evil Hamster]

For example, Heatran doesn't fear anything on your lineup barring Earthquake from Hippowdon and perhaps a Surf from Tentacruel. If you run into a Choice Specs Heatran, however, a OHKO on Hippowdon is possible with that EV spread, and is guaranteed if he gets a Flash Fire boost. The common Choice Scarf Heatran can get a OHKO occasionally with SR support on Hippowdon, and always 3HKOs max SpDef Tentacruel with Earth Power. The rarer Choice Specs version OHKOs Max HP / Max SpDef Tentacruel with SR support some of the time if it has a Flash Fire boost. Your spread would always be a OHKO to a Flash Fire boost. Your Tentacruel set (I'm assuming it's 120 SpAttack EVs, not Attack?) does 2HKO Heatran, though.

uh yeah.

Hippowdon survives Scarf Fire Blast very easily and OHKO's with Earthquake, whilst Tentacruel can come in very easily and hit it with Surf or set up Toxic Spikes. Blissey can easily set up six Calm Minds against any Heatran variant that lacks Taunt. This team has no fire move on it at all, so a Flash Fire boosted Heatran is not something it will ever have to worry about.

Don't have time for a full rate now, should be doing hwk :s Will try and give one later, but I would recommend trying a Rest/Sleep Talk/Surf/Toxic Spikes Tentacruel. Without Wish support, and when Sandstream will always be in play, Tentacruel will be worn down pretty quickly, and you'll be left open to the likes of Mixape in the late-game (who atm can do ~40% to Tentacruel with a Close Combat, so you can only switch in once) Losing Rapid Spin isn't too much of a problem as SR doesn't hurt your team too much and any team with Spikes will have an anti-spinner anyway.

I'd also be worried about CB Azumarill, who can 2HKO everything on your team with Waterfall :s I would consider sticking a Reflect Celebi in over Shaymin, seeing as the SR weak hurts more than it helps your team and it just doesn't really fit in with your stally based team. It helps take Choice Banded Waterfalls, and also helps you with offensive Gyarados, who can cause you problems as a Dragon Danced Life Orbed Waterfall can do upwards of 80% to your Rotom, and if it elects to use Aqua Tail over Waterfall it's a likely OHKO with Stealth Rock in play.

 

[obi]

I recommend against Seismic Toss on Blissey. What are you hitting with it? If Zapdos has Roost or Rest, you can't beat it with Seismic Toss. If it doesn't, you beat it regardless. Swampert takes at least 6 hits to break.

Raikou is taken on by Hippowdon + Blissey fairly easily. If your concern is Heatran, I would sooner use HP Ground than Seismic Toss, because at least it threatens Infernape switch-ins better. Of course, a move like Thunderbolt is just about as effective as Seismic Toss at breaking Heatran (and you have Tentacruel as back-up there, anyway).

 

[Thorns]

OK, if I run WishBliss, does Wish/Protect/Flamethrower/HP Ground sound fair? It does well against Ape switchins and Heatran too. I'll try Celebi after I do some testing with Breloom, but not for a while, I'm studying for my yearlies.

EndlersaurusRex: the 'if Pokemon x faints, Pokemon y can destroy your team' applies to pretty much every team ever, but I think Breloom and Hippowdon (who only fears the 8.5% of Tyranitars that use Aqua Tail) can deal with him well.

 

[Colonel M]

Blissey: I'd consider Toxic though, just to cripple said Zapdos and Cresselia. Sleep Talk and Rest is very uncommon, and Blissey has the capability of outstalling Zapdos at the very least.

You should have Choice Band Tyranitar handled, but I would still watch out for Aqua Tail. Despite its low usage, it is extremely effective on the Choice Band set and with it Tyranitar DOES have that capability of 2HKOing your team with Crunch, Stone Edge, and Aqua Tail combined. Resists are very helpful, and you should be able to handle Tyranitar most of the time if you think on your toes. In other words: despite how menacing Tyranitar COULD be on this team, he can be handled. As far as Heatran, Rotom-A and Tentacruel can switch into some of its attacks. And Blissey, despte being unable to attack Heatran if you choose Flamethrower / Toxic / Wish / Protect, can still be PP stalled out of Fire Blast and use Protect against an Explosion if Blissey feels one is coming.

In other words: Don't underestimate the low usage of Aqua Tail. I can say that I've used it over Earthquake and its a move that I would recommend before Earthquake almost any day.

However, my main concern is this: a Magnezone and Salamence combination. Here's why: Magnezone can pick off Skarmory while Salamence has freedom to Dragon Dance against something such as Tentacruel and possibly Blissey. After that, Outrage is tearing things apart. That's why I'm going to say stick with Shed Shell on Skarmory. Understanding that Magnezone is a rarity, it could still be a life saver.

And finally, I want to question why Seed Flare is absent from Shaymin-S. I feel without Seed Flare, you can't be as effective when forcing switches. Granted: Air Slash and Leech Seed will be annoying anyway, and Seed Flare and Leech Seed may seem somewhat contradicting; however, I just feel that Seed Flare is a more useful move than Earth Power. I could be missing something however.

Cool team otherwise.

 

[EndlersaurusRex]

| Tyranitar | Move | Fire Punch | 11.0 |
| Tyranitar | Move | Aqua Tail | 8.5 |

yeah

Are those the common movesets for October on Shoddy? If so, the increase in FP over AT might be attributed to the commonness of the actual set. Dragon Dance (which I remember reading runs Fire Punch as the third move, standardly) mich be more common than Choice Band (which I remember Aqua Tail as being a standard.) My poor phrasing aside, CB Tyranitar is still a threat if he has Crunch, Aqua Tail, and Stone Edge.

@Evil Hamster: I didn't mean to imply that Heatran would have a Flash-Fire boost, I was just trying to show some damage calculations to show any weaknesses. . . and it was a miscalculation of the Scarf Variant Heatran's Fire Blast against Hippowdon. Specs-variants, rare though they may be, can OHKO with SR support, however. Sorry for my poor phrasing and miscalculations :/