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Lapras looks so Good in this format. From my experience playing Monotype, Lapras makes Water Teams tremble in fear since they have 0 switch ins bar Specially Defensive Empoleon ( who got dexited ) and Specially Defensive Walrein with Thick Fat- but who uses that on Mono Water? Your best bet is to revenge kill it with something faster like Urshifu.
BTW, Ludicolo looks really good with Grass STAB and Swift Swim.
We have shitty English translation of the ruleset (yet again). This ruleset does not allow sub-legendaries. Urshifu-RS, Tapu Fini, and Suicune are affected. This removes what would have been a common way to deal big damage to Lapras.
Finally a fun and creative online competition! I can't participate myself, but still wanna share my initial thoughts:
Nasty plot and electric stab? Check! After a substitute, its defensive counters (gastrodon, seaking etc) become set-up bait as well.
Bulky, great offensive coverage, and stall breaking tools (OHKO, perish song). Hard to justify not using this one.
Power whip, DD, moxie, taunt - this thing has all the right tools to be an offensive monster threat. 4x weakness to electric and freeze dry sucks, though.
Good defensive typing, and grass stab to go along with it.
Adaptability Knock Off hitting most things neutral could make it a good 1v1 trader, especially with sash. SD for stall break as well.
Some interesting defensive options. Overall, I think stall will be difficult to use, mostly due to Rotom-Water and Lapras.
Thick Fat Walrein or Azumarill might be good against Lapras. Otherwise stuff like Weakness Policy Poliwrath (affectionately known as Weakness Policywrath) might have merit.
Urshifu being banned is a bummer considering all the Lapras that are gonna be running around.... But anyways, here's some of my thoughts!
Lanturn sounds like a pretty good idea in this competition. Sure it doesn't have Rotom-W's sweeping potential, but it actually does pretty good against Rotom-W itself with Volt Absorb! '
On a similar note, Gastrodon sounds like a pretty good check against Rotom-W and Lanturn. Just keep it away from Gyarados and Lapras, who will kick its ass lol. Well unless of course... you use SASH COUNTERCOAT! I'm considering something like that for Swampert too, could be pretty helpful against powerful Dynamaxers if you don't want to go the bulky Yawn route, since that might not help much against Lapras and Gyarados.
Also this is gonna sound nuts, but I might finally use Cramorant again (who btw, was in the first group of mons I got a Master Ribbon for all the way back in season 1 LOL). Only a few mons are gonna be immune to the Pikachu paralysis from it, and in general it might be a rather disruptive mon with Endure and Sash shenigans that I'm not sure many people are gonna adequately prepare for! It can also use Dive to stall out Dynamax while refilling up its Arrokouda / Pikachu, though this doesn't work out as brilliantly as it could with Water Absorb Lapras lol.
As for Walrein, a worry I have about that mon against Lapras is that Max Lightning is gonna fry it, and I guarantee you that most Lapras will run an Electric move to smack mons with when Dynamaxed.
Tried a few games on Showdown. A disgustingly bulky Moody octillery seems to do pretty well, especially if its behind resonance or Rotom-W hits something with eerie impulse before you send it it. Physically defensive perish trap azu has worked well against Gyarados.
But countering Lapras is a nightmare. Aside from Lanturn, not much deals well with both Freeze Dry and Thunder.
PSA: 252+ SpA Life Orb Lapras Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Milotic: 86-101 (42.5 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
Milo has Mirror Coat to retaliate, as well as Hypnosis for disruption. Pretty sure the only thing that can OHKO it from the special side without boosting in this format is Specs Ludicolo Leaf Storm, and even that still has less than 20% chance to do so.
First of all, I think for a good team in this, you probably need to be thinking Wacan Berry when you are thinking about checking Gyarados. Also, and it's probably obvious if you've played any amount of practice games in this at all, but it always helps if your gameplan comes online quicker so that their Gyarados doesn't get the momentum in the first place.
But yeah, if you plan on relying on a Focus Sash mon to check Gyarados, you probably have to be protecting the Sash in the back by leading something that dunks on prominent Stealth Rock setters (Lapras/Grass-move users) every game. Because Gyarados is going to be on every team.
PhysDef invested Rindo Berry Rotom can take a single hit from +1 Att Dynamax Gyarados without having to pop Dynamax of its own, but when you factor in Wacan Berry, you start to be pushed into running Thunder Wave and some Speed investment in order to not get blown away by the second hit without at least crippling it, because you just don't do enough damage back. Wacan Berry also makes things like Choice Scarf Rotom (or even Starmie) unreliable as checks, for what that's worth.
Then there's also Endure + Custap Berry stuff that forces Gyarados to spend a turn on Max Guard, effectively trading two turns of its Dynamax, and threatens it with Rock Tomb/Yawn (Relicanth) or a big hit (e.g. Weak Armor Kabutops).
Poliwrath @ Salac Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 20 HP / 228 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch
- Rock Slide
Idea was to get a super fast Yawn user in and get ejected out into really fast Poliwrath, which Subs on either an attack into sleep or switch out, both situations result in a safe Belly Drum the next turn and Salac activation. I tried Swampert under Tailwind over Kingdra because every Lapras was just going for blind Max Lightning on the Yawn turn… But Kingdra‘s natural speed allowed a Yawn against basically everything except Starmie without needing Pelipper’s rain support.
Speaking of Max Lightning; the showdown ladder is smart enough to click Max Lightning on the Sub turn when they’re drowsy to negate sleep, or Volt Switch to break the Sub and avoid it completely. And some …. aren’t aware of that and just attack / hard switch into a Max Guard or something on Poliwrath and mess me up that way. If they don’t do that though this Poliwrath gimmick is really funny to use.
I’ve tried Sub+Stockpile Lanturn over Poliwrath as a way to Sub on those disruptive electric moves and have them fall asleep to Yawn, but not having Charge Beam anymore really sucks. I thought about Petaya Berry since it already has Sub, but the bulk of Stockpile + Leftovers is really nice. Basically everything being weak to Electric makes its relatively low SpA very much usable though.
I’ve gone exactly 50% winrate in like 40something matches just trying to brute-force the Poliwrath gimmick to see what it loses to. If I could make it more reliable I’d lock it in for the competition but I‘m a bit stuck. The solution seems to be baiting in a Pokémon without Electric moves to pull off the setup. The problem is the Ground-types are too weak to Omnipresent Lapras and Lanturn is….Lanturn.
Apart from that, I’ve found Specs Ludicolo, Rindo physdef Rotom with SubPlot, Thunder and Dark Pulse, and Flame Orb Mirror Coat Milotic to be really good. About as close to a reception loop as I can get.
From my opponents I‘ve found that Focus Sash + Trick Room anything is really good, as setting up rocks to break sashes is almost impossible against Lapras or Fake Out Ludicolo (to break Relicanth’s Sturdy). Kabutops also seems really cool, I’ve seen it mostly run:
Anyway, this has been interesting to test but the sheer dominance of Lapras and Gyarados is insane. Another format where guessing leads at team preview and losing rock-paper-scissors style from turn 1 isn’t really ideal lol. Usually I try to build something silly to take advantage of those but I’m having trouble with it atm!
BANDANA WILL DOMINATE
seriously, unaware countercoat pyukumuku with wacan sounds busted.
so im seeing a lot of lapras and gyarados on ladder, and for good reason. the combo of freeze dry, thunder, and perish song along with gmax on the former, and sweeping potential, power whip, insane max moves, and the occasional thunder with a LO or berry on the latter.
I am curious as to why rain has seen like zero usage. i mean its boring to use, but its effective.
an antimeta pokemon is swampert. Banded stone edge, bulky yawn yache, bulk up wacan, even dynamax abusers!
Weakness Policy is very underrated imo. WP araquanid kicks arse if dynamaxed.
My favorite pick is Bandana. if you dont know, that is Choice Banded Toxapex. it has amazing bulk, and a gunk shot or a pjab is very hard to switch in to. 63 attack can get a lot higher than you expect! in my home of m4a, its gunk shots have put fear into even neutral hits! baneful bunker + regenerator is good, and haze can help in an emergency. toxaspecs (or scarf pex if you are THAT person) are options too.
sadly, toxapex makes gunkytine a lost hope.
Lapras looks so Good in this format. From my experience playing Monotype, Lapras makes Water Teams tremble in fear since they have 0 switch ins bar Specially Defensive Empoleon ( who got dexited ) and Specially Defensive Walrein with Thick Fat- but who uses that on Mono Water? Your best bet is to revenge kill it with something faster like Urshifu.
BTW, Ludicolo looks really good with Grass STAB and Swift Swim.
Not really...
Lapras is breakfast to Focus Sash Cloyster's Shell Smash Skill Link Rock Blast
even if Lapras has Thunder or Thunderbolt and even if it causes paralysis!!
It'll only win if the paralysis kicks in or if Rock Blast misses
The real threat everyone has to watch out for in this competition is Shell Smash Cloyster/Omastar!!
Make sure you get Aqua Jet or priority moves everyone
No, Shell Smash Focus Sash Omastar/Cloyster Skill Link make this competition unfair lol
Not really...
Lapras is breakfast to Focus Sash Cloyster's Shell Smash Skill Link Rock Blast
even if Lapras has Thunder or Thunderbolt and even if it causes paralysis!!
It'll only win if the paralysis kicks in or if Rock Blast misses
The real threat everyone has to watch out for in this competition is Shell Smash Cloyster/Omastar!!
Make sure you get Aqua Jet or priority moves everyone
Yes, but Lapras hits everything super effectively with Freeze-Dry with 0 switch ins. And besides, both need focus sashes to avoid getting OHKOed by Freeze-Dry which can easily be broken by hazards.
I think Cloyster is pretty good the few times I've seen it in action (I haven't seen too much Omastar yet though), but Lapras's bulk and access to Freeze Dry really makes it a cut above the rest imo, with exceptions to maybe Gyarados and Rotom-W, who I feel are the other two clear "S ranks" of the format.
Hell, you can run Scarf Lapras too, I've seen that a few times and ran it myself. Losing on the bulk is a shame, but outspeeding Rotom-W and Gyarados can lead to some win conditions your foe doesn't expect!
ok everyones using lapras and ludicolo and lanturn and rotom wash and co. so imma see what else can take advantage of monowater:
freeze dryers:
-Litteraly only arctovish
electric type moves:
litteraly the only thing coming to mind is starmie.
grass type moves:
Not much else comes to mind, energy ball primarina ig? thankfully we have milotic
Has anyone found a (good) way to deal with GMax Resonance? I was thinking about bringing a Brick Break mon to handle it. Defog doesn't seem to be the way to go, since I don't think there will be lot of hazards in 3v3 (+ Cramorant is the only defogger in the format, afaik)
Like a lot of things in this meta, I don't think there is a catch-all counter to lapras. One thing that might be worth trying is that Yache Berry mitigates damage from freeze dry, Which might help rotom beat weakness policy lapras.
I’m really surprised at the Seismitoad usage. Never seen one in like 70 games. Anyone used or faced it? What does it do? I thought for sure it would be lower than Lanturn at least. Tentacruel is interesting, I’ve been seeing more of them which seem to be a way to offensively answer Ludicolo. It can be EVed to live some big hits and Mirror Coat back, or Tickle Gyara if it’s in against that for some reason.
Anything you guys thought would be top 10 but missed out?
Has anyone found a (good) way to deal with GMax Resonance? I was thinking about bringing a Brick Break mon to handle it. Defog doesn't seem to be the way to go, since I don't think there will be lot of hazards in 3v3 (+ Cramorant is the only defogger in the format, afaik)
I was trying out Brick Break on Poliwrath but in the long run Drain Punch was better. The thing about Resonance is that everything resists it, so if Lapras goes for it it’s at least not doing any damage that turn, and there are a lot of mons that can make great use of that turn. Just don’t allow yourself to have something on the field that plays passively against Lapras and it won’t get a chance. If you’re doing that you’re playing this format wrong in the first place.
I’m really surprised at the Seismitoad usage. Never seen one in like 70 games. Anyone used or faced it? What does it do? I thought for sure it would be lower than Lanturn at least. Tentacruel is interesting, I’ve been seeing more of them which seem to be a way to offensively answer Ludicolo. It can be EVed to live some big hits and Mirror Coat back, or Tickle Gyara if it’s in against that for some reason.
Anything you guys thought would be top 10 but missed out?
idrk, im more suprised with relincanth getting 6th. rock head gets killed by the FOUR MONS WITH THE MOST USAGE, while sturdy doesnt have the firepower to KO them back because it cant headsmash without dying itself. COULD see where its worthwile to trade relincanth and gyrados tho.
Nasty plot and electric stab? Check! After a substitute, its defensive counters (gastrodon, seaking etc) become set-up bait as well.
Good defensive typing, and grass stab to go along with it.
Adaptability Knock Off hitting most things neutral could make it a good 1v1 trader, especially with sash. SD for stall break as well.
Some interesting defensive options. Overall, I think stall will be difficult to use, mostly due to Rotom-Water and Lapras.
