Welcoming the newest OU: manaphy

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Manaphy has been dropped back into OU, so lets talk about our newest friend

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What can manaphy offer?

A number of things really:
manaphy is a mono water typing, which overall is an excellent typing
with its 1.2lb weight manaphy takes virtually zero damage from grass knot, making its mono-water typing even better
Base 100 in all stats make it versitile, though its movepool is not so accommodating to all sets.
hydration is the big one. A unique ability that lets manaphy heal all status in raid, letting it awaken from rest immediately, and preventing status from shutting down a sweeper

But manaphy does have some cons:
as said before its movepool overall is quite shallow. It does not have the amount of sets as say celebi, another 600 bst poke, does.
100 speed is good, but not quite enough to be a truely threatening sweeper. Numererous thunderbolt carrying attackers can all outspeed it.
Hydration can sometimes come back to hurt you- well timed switches of weather changers can cripple manaphy

Lets talk about some sets next. The most well known is probably the tail glow sweeper from the ubers anylsis, looking something like
4 hp/252 spa/252 spe
life orb
tail glow
surf
ice beam
energy ball/rain dance/rest/hp electric

The big difference between OU and ubers is kyogre. Without the permenent rain manaphy either has to carry rain dance, losing coverage, or rely on other rain dancers. Alternatively it can forgoe rain and go as is. I used this set primarily in suspect, and without rain it still is at risk of getting walled by blissey. The main risk here is rain only lasts so long in OU, and manaphy can take some time to set up for a proper sweep, eating up precious rain turns. Energy ball is generally superior to grass knot, for hitting opposing manaphys and vaporeon switch ins.

Crophy: A set not run in ubers, this works almost the exact same way as suicune does.
252 hp/252 def?(I'm not good at evs)
leftovers
rest
rain dance
calm mind
surf

Manaphy can switch in, set up rain dance, and begin to calm mind up. Rest allows it to instantly heal in the rain. Risks on this set are naturally vaporeon completely walling it, and weather changers. A well timed weather switch can leave manaphy sleeping for 2 turns. Trick also ruins you, so be wary. An alternate to this set is switching calm mind with toxic, for a stall playstyle

Something I concocted on my own:
252 atk/252 spe/4 hp
life orb/damp rock
waterfall
return/U-turn
rain dance
rest

This is manaphy acting as either a physical attacker(return/life orb), or rain dance support(damp rock/U-turn). Return+waterfall offers almost universally unresisted coverage, only empoleon resists both. Rest and rain dance allow you to boost waterfall damage, and recover LO recoil/status.

Alternitively a damp rock and U-turn can be used, letting manaphy work as a primary rain dancer for rain based teams.

Who do you want on your tem with manaphy?
The obvious ones for rain dancers are swift swimmers. Kingra, ludicolo, kabutops and the like are all well known rain dance teamates, and manaphy can provide them with rain, or take advantage of rain support from others.

With grass knot being the most common grass move, manaphy's main fear is electric attacks. This makes ground types an obvious choice. Swampert grounds electric, and can use rain boosted surfs and waterfalls. Manaphy intercepts grass knots without worry.

Suicune might seem to be less useful with crophy around, but the two can work together in the same way that salamence and dragonite can, creating a double calm-mind rest after a counter has been sufficiently weakened or removed.

What can you do against manaphy?
Manaphy being voted ou must mean it has counters right? well here are some options:
Blissey can come in sometimes on the tail glow sweeper, but a +6 surf in the rain will 2hko her
Latias resists water, and can fire off super effective thunderbolts while having a speed advantage over manaphy
Abomasnow also resists water, and grass, and is neutral to ice. A well timed swich can ruin a manaphy hydration. After that abomasnow can threaten the sleeping manaphys with stab wood hammers, or set up leech seed and try to stall out manaphy.
Ludicolo sports a 4x resist to water, and is neutral to grass and ice. It also benefits from rain both by outspeeding manaphy with swift swim, or being able to heal more with rain dish. It can then threaten to stall out manaphy's rain with leech seed, protect, and rain dish, or simply outspeed and use stab grass attacks.
Jolteon and raikou both outspeed manaphy, and can hit hard with stab electric attacks.
Vaporeon can completely wall manaphys without energy ball.
Rain dancers in general can threaten manaphy with its own weapon. Kingra has a 4x water resist and has powerful dragon attacks to use against manaphy.
Tyranitar and hippowdon are weak to water, but can also ruin hydration. Use with care.

Here's to hoping manaphy can shake up the metagame a little, and find more use than it did in ubers. Comments/corrections/improvements?
 
Manaphy is still being considered for another stage of testing I believe? Isn't this thread rather pre-emptive?
 
I was just about to post a similar thread when I saw this!

Anyway, Manaphy is a very balanced pokemon, and I feel that it has multiple options. Maybe we should list them in the OP so they can be thoroughly discussed?

Offensive Options:

-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Energy Ball
-Grass Knot
-Psychic
-Hidden Power Electric
-Shadow Ball
-Signal Beam
-Tail Glow
-Waterfall
-Return
-Brine
-Calm Mind

Defensive / Support:

-Acid Armor
-Charm
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Heart Swap
-Rain Dance
-Calm Mind
-Toxic
-Rest
-Safeguard
-Substitute
-Knock Off
-Heal Bell

As we see here, Manaphy has a decent variety of options to choose from. Another set I've been toying with is this:

Manaphy@Leftovers / Light Clay
Timid; 252 HP / 40 Def / 40 SpD / 176 Spe

Surf
Reflect
Light Screen
U-Turn / Heal Bell / Rest

Dual Screen Manaphy can prove quite bulky - using light screen on the first turn significantly weakens the main methods of dealing with it (Energy Ball / Thunderbolt), while Reflect furthers its bulk. Surf lets it attack. In the final slot, U-Turn can provide a nice switch once screens have been set up. With Heal Bell, Manaphy can serve as a cleric, while Rest allows it to heal once, although it needs rain to work well. With 308 speed, it has little issues setting up screens against slow, heavy hitters such as CBTar's Stone Edge, or Adamant Flygon's CB Outrage.

When compared to other screeners, it has several advantages. Unlike the psychic types that make up a large majority of dual screeners, Manaphy does not fear a well-timed Pursuit or Shadow Ball. When coupled with its typing, its natural bulk allows it to take hits behind screens extremely well - Timid LO Latias manages a mere 28.22% - 33.66% with Thunderbolt, allowing Manaphy to set up a Reflect and then U-Turn out. In Hydration, Manaphy can quite literally rinse and repeat, thanks to Rest.

As far as the typical LO set, I would much rather use HP Electric over GK / EB anyways. With a Life Orb, 252 / 0 Swampert is OHKOd by +2 Surf about 80% of the time, so there is no need for a grass attack. Meanwhile, Gyarados, Vaporeon, and opposing Manaphy all take severe damage from HP Electric; Manaphy is OHKOd over 50% of the time, Gyara is always OHKOd, and Vaporeon is OHKOd about 46% of the time. With GK, Manaphy and Vaporeon take significantly less damage, while Energy Ball will never OHKO Gyara even after SR and a Tail Glow. Moreover, it allows Manaphy to hit Empoleon a little harder.
 
Manaphy is still being considered for another stage of testing I believe? Isn't this thread rather pre-emptive?

Manaphy is certified OU, you can use it on shoddy.

I don't think heart swap works though. If needed I can update the op tomorrow, I'm going to bed after this.
 
I don't think heart swap works though. If needed I can update the op tomorrow, I'm going to bed after this.
Heart swap is fixed.


Anyway,now that Manaphy is OU a Sub+Tail Glow set has been giving me very good results since i have started to play with it during the suspect test.

Now remember my original Sub+Tail Glow set back in the suspect thread? well im reconstructing it now,This Sub+Tail Glow Manaphy is pretty much the same however theres a twist:

Bold
means that this is a new part of the Sub+Tail Glow

Manaphy@Salac Berry
Evs:4 HP/252 Sp Atk/252 Spd (Constructing an Ev Spread)
Nature:Modest/Timid

  • Substitue
  • Tail Glow
  • Surf
  • Ice Beam/Grass Knot

----
Rain and Toxic Spikes is required for best results

now the idea here is switch in on something it can force out,Substitute,then Tail Glow up.Heres where the crux of this set begins:if the foe happens to be slower than you,You can continue to Sub up untill you have gotten that Salac boost.And you can sweep with +1 Speed and +2 Sp Atk.Not much can switch into this set apart from Vaccum/Sucker Punch/Shadow Sneak users who would take a rather big chuck over a Rain Boosted surf ,Choice Scarf users,And water absorbers.

----
I suspect Manaphy to cause some "Shifting" in the metagame.Abomasnow and Tyranitar will become more common due to the rise of rain.Heatran will fall down(And most other fire types) And Perish Song Celebi will rise somewhat.
 
Manaphy is still being considered for another stage of testing I believe? Isn't this thread rather pre-emptive?

Yes, Jumpman and Aeolus are still deciding whether to have a stage 3.3 or not, but Manaphy is now available on the ladder, so we are allowed to consider it OU for the time being.

Also, you guys are forgetting one of Manaphy's most deadly sets:

Manaphy@leftovers
nature: timid
EVs: 252 HP \ 80 SpA \ 176 Spe
-substitute
-tail glow
-surf
-ice beam\hidden power electric\energy ball

Enough speed to outspeed positive natured base 90 Pokemon, 101 HP substitutes to beat Blissey 1 vs 1 and tail glow to destroy stall teams. This Manaphy is a real force to be reckoned with, its only problem is the "moveslot syndrome" as you can't hit both Latias and bulky waters with this set. During stage 3 I've found that surf+hp electric gives the best coverage and turns this Pokemon into an excellent Gyarados counter.
 
i fought my first manaphy today and was like wtf?!? when i saw it. Unfortunately for my opponent he brought it in on a "scarf jirachi" caught on iron head and got hit for 70% damage or so by thunderbolt rendering it useless.

That was the only one I saw though. I'm looking forward to seeing it used by the hands of a good battler, however
 
So far playing Manaphy, it is quite the beast (But definitely manageable). I'm using the Tail Glow + 3 attacks set, and is wondering which should be the last move (TG, Surf and Ice Beam are obviously the first three): Grass Knot, Energy Ball or Hidden Power Electric. Advantages of Grass Knot are obviously bulky waters like Suicune, Swampert, Milotic and Slowbro (latter two being UU) the hardest, Hidden Power Electric hits Gyarados, other Manaphy and Empoleon, and Energy Ball hits hardest on other Manaphy, Vaporeon, the rarer Lanturn. So far I'm using HP Electric, as it is sort of hits most things for decent damage, as Grass Knot can't hit other Manaphy and Empoleon, while Energy Ball is more situational. HP Electric is more like a compromise between the two, and gives the best coverage overall. What does everyone else think??
 
yeah it isnt ou yet were going to test it in stage 3-3 im going to post about it later
 
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