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What If? - Alternate Timelines (AT #10f: Smokomodo - Typing Discussion)

65 HP / 90 Atk / 127 Def / 61 SpAtk / 106 SpDef / 121 Spe

BST:
570

PS: 109.65
SS: 84.38
PT: 114.76
ST: 98.57
BSR: 549.74

Defining moves: Knock Off, Strength Sap (effective BSR limit 550)

Outspeeds Cinderace (plus 1 extra speed cuz oops). Basically tried to lean into shitting on Woger. Tailored the stats to a 252 HP / 252 Spe spread via low HP. That made Strength Sap better and honestly kinda stupid so I threw it on. Physical attacker cuz Flower Veil means you can freely click knock into birds without fearing status.

I used a T value of 3, not sure if that's correct but I can adjust it if needed.
 
59 HP / 81 Atk / 118 Def / 43 SpA / 133 SpD / 126 Spe | 560 BST

107.91 PS / 73.59 SS / 102.67 PT / 114.67 ST | 554.85 BSR

Defining Moves:
Knock Off, Strength Sap

The eleventh hour variety submission. Wanted to lean into the naturally good match-ups against the format's many special attackers. This lead to a bit higher speed so that it can threaten Darkrai. It can supplement its physical bulk via Strength Sap, Iron Defense, or Cotton Guard. Same principles viol listed above apply here.
 
And by the skin of their teeth, viol and bass is the winner of AT Cresceidon's stats stage.

Now while normally I would start a new one while the art stage is going on, I am gonna be on LoA from this Friday (the 22nd) until September 3rd so I am gonna open up the thread for art submissions but will hold off on starting a brand new AT until I return.

Have fun submitting art and I may sneak some peeks at the artwork here even if I am gonna be on LoA

this one is actually planned unlike my last one sorry lol
 
shout out to that one bird of paradise lego build for giving me the idea for this
CAP AT 9 Bird of Paradise.png

Verdinraptor
The Paradise Bird Pokemon
Grass/Steel


Based on birds of paradise (the plant and some specific species of birds), copper/bronze vessels, and velociraptors.
 
And with the sole art submission, YamiTheYin has won for AT Cresceidon's art (now aptly named Verdinraptor).

With that (minus a potential full movepool sub from our resident movepool guy Ayecrusher King lol), we have now made it to AT #10, which blows my mind! I wanted to try and do something special for this and while I do think this will be a bit of work, I do believe it is time we tackle the hardest process in "modern day CAP history" which is...

:sv/caribolt: :sv/smokomodo: :sv/snaelstrom:
The CAP Starters!

However, unlike the ST process that did them all 3 at the same time which is probably why that process was such an exhausting one to do we will be doing each one separately and essentially having 3 final product ATs for the 10th iteration of the project!

Because this is a sort of "framework AT" as it stands, we will be starting from scratch mainly because there are WAY too many "what ifs" within each starter line that we could literally do an entire project focused on them lmao and since this is special I figured fk it we ball. Therefore, the plan is going with their original concept quoted below:
Final Submission
  • Name - Astounding Ability Actualization (Triple A)
  • Description - These Pokemon each maximize the potential of their given, separate abilities by coordinating their movepools and that ability's competitive effect.
  • Justification - This is an Actualization concept much like Cyclohm's original "Neglected Ability." In my research on what made Pokemon with "Starter Level" stats effective, the common denominator was they all had abilities they used to full effect with their other competitive aspects. This framework gives us a unique opportunity to A-B test some fairly powerful abilities we usually shy away from and bring out an effective competitive starter trio.
  • Questions To Be Answered-
    • Which Abilities are best suited to a full, comprehensive exploration of their specific mechanics?
    • Why does Ability seem to be the common factor in taking "starter-esque" Pokemon into prominence (e.g. Protean and Battle Bond Greninja, Contrary Serperior, Speed Boost Blaziken to Ubers, etc.)
    • What is the threshold where maximizing an ability goes toi far, such as Blaziken's combination of Swords Dance, strong attack and mid-grade speed, and high BP STABS with Speed Boost or Protean Greninja's huge speed and just-varied enough movepool in prior Generations?
    • How will introducing three specialized Pokemon into the metagame at once impact it overall?
    • Which type combinations along with the starter types are best suited to maximizing the potential of a specific ability, and why?
  • Explanation - Competitive Pokemon has suffered from a massive power creep for a long time. In order for a Pokemon to be effective, not only does it have to be fairly good generally, it also can't be directly outclassed. Considering our Framework, our Pokemon are already competing against Heatran/Volcarona, Toxapex/Keldeo/Greninja, and Ferrothorn/Kartana for offensive or defensive roles. However, each of those Pokemon have their own flaws that give our FWG CAP Trio space to explore if we are focused on a key niche for each of them.

    Let's take Grass for example, and Tough Claws. Tough Claws boosts one of the most incredibly CAP-relevant moves, Grass Knot, because it is a special contact attack. Only Mega Metagross ever even came close to utilizing this combination, and Mega-Meta was banned (for other reasons, of course). Grass could also use it's huge number of healing options with Triage, including priority Strength Sap that even outruns Bullet Punch. Nearly every Fire attack has a secondary effect chance perfect for Serene Grace or Sheer Force. Water has a few specific moves that would also love Serene Grace, but would also appreciate breaking through Gastrodon and Mollux with Mold Breaker. Suffice it to say, this concept gives us an ability to meet our Framework demands and think through a huge combination of synergistic types and abilities in a single project.
So without further ado, we are going to frolic through this by beginning with AT Caribolt and figuring out what secondary typing is best to actualize the astounding ability it will receive!
 
Looking at Grass an overall type, we can observe a few strengths and weaknesses. I elaborate on them below. To the point, defensively, Fairy and Steel appreciate Grass's tools and bolster its profile. Offensively, Dark, Ghost, and Rock either grant a spammable STAB or directly threaten many of Grass's checks. Of these, Rock is my current favorite.

Strengths:
Grass resists many strong and common attacking types like Water, Ground, or Electric
Grass has many forms of reliable healing via moves like Synthesis, Leech Seed, Strength Sap, and draining moves
In addition to its healing, Grass also has access to status conditions through powder moves, a protect move that punishes physical attackers, and many other effects
Grass has moves with the guaranteed effect of healing the user, raising the user's Speed, lowering every stat of the opponent, landing a critical hit on the opponent, or trapping the opponent

Weaknesses:
Grass has many good moves and hits all too common types like Water and Ground for super-effective damage, but struggles against many more types like Bug, Dragon, Fire, Flying, Grass, Poison, and Steel
While Grass boasts many useful resistances, it also carries far too many weakness to the likes of Bug, Fire, Flying, Ice, and Poison
 
This concept is centered on move-ability synergy, and most applicable abilities are offensive (or hybrid). Defensive synergies exist but they're usually a bit more abstract, like thick fat + leech seed allowing you to stall for leech seed turns better or whatever. This is a concept where we're probably fine with giving out dumb synergistic coverage moves, since the concept is specifically around ability-move synergy and not ability-typing synergy. Because of that, there's definitely a "coverage monster" route where we run with a primarily defensive typing and let an offensive ability boost wild coverage moves to threatening levels. Leaning into powerful dual STABs may be a better bet though.

In terms of evaluating secondary typings, I think choosing a typing that leaves open many different ability-synergy routes is a good way to go. With that in mind, here are "explicit offensive ability-move synergy categories" that stick out to me about Grass's movepool. I'm only including attacking moves here, because we could in theory put leech seed on anything, but only grass types get STAB on wood hammer.
  • healing-category moves (giga drain, horn leech)
  • slicing moves (leaf blade, solar blade)
  • sun synergy (solar blade, solar beam)
  • recoil moves (wood hammer, sort of chloroblast)
  • secondary effect (energy ball and a bunch of signatures seed flare is hilarious)
  • multihit / low BP (bullet seed, trailblaze)
I'm sure this is not comprehensive but these are what came to mind. I'm going to evaluate some typings by looking at how many of the categories above are also filled by good moves of that secondary typing. This allows us to leave the most routes open for the next stage. Some typings that stand out to me immediately are:
  • Grass/Fire: Someone tell me if this typing is forbidden for a starter but it has solid moves in literally all of the categories above. Leaves an absolute truckload of routes open. Quite a powerful offensive typing.
  • Grass/Flying: Fulfills almost all of these categories, and does almost uniquely well in one or two of them. This probably requires good coverage but could be surprisingly powerful offensively. There are some really really cool options here.
  • Grass/Normal: Fulfills most of these categories well and obviously has a wild offensive movepool if we're willing to tap into it.
  • Grass/Rock or Grass/Fairy: These both lean pretty hard into only a couple of these categories (recoil or slicing for rock / healing for fairy), but do so extremely effectively. Grass/Fairy offers quite a nice defensive backbone in the process.
  • Grass/Electric: Never happening but does really well by these metrics.
  • Grass/Water: Solid for most of these routes. Recoil is neat. Again not sure if doubling up starter typings is allowed...
Ignoring all this for a minute, I'll also mention one typing that stands out to me defensively: Grass/Poison. Any number of defensive abilities play nice with its movepool. Grass has a mililon moves that heal you, while STAB Sludge Bomb or perfect accuracy Toxic allow you to make good use of turns sitting on the opponent. Offensively, this is also a pretty good chassis for a "coverage monster" build imo.
 
Gonna throw my hat in the ring for Grass/Fairy. Fairy is just an insanely good typing and you can't go wrong with pairing it with any type. The Grass/Fairy combo sports six stellar resistances and an immunity while also being balanced out by some common weaknesses. The two types also have good STAB options on both the physical and special side as well as good support moves, allowing for lots of workable options to choose from in the later stages.

Also throwing support behind Grass/Flying and Grass/Rock.
 
In terms of the concept, I agree with Viol that we'll best have synergistic coverage bolstered by our Ability. I would throw support behind Grass/Fire, but that probably implicitly mandates a significant poll jump that the other two AltCAPs have a similar type combo (i.e. Fire/Water or Water/Grass).
So, I'm instead gonna throw support for Grass/Rock & Grass/Flying, both for being able to hit everything apart from Steel at least neutrally. Not as big of a fan of Grass/Fairy as a result, partially cause, defensive profile aside, it offers no offensive benefits, which would detract from the aforementioned offensive focus.

Anyways, I held off making a movepool in case someone was planning an alternate art sub. So...
View attachment 767465
Verdinraptor
The Paradise Bird Pokemon
Grass/Steel


Based on birds of paradise (the plant and some specific species of birds), copper/bronze vessels, and velociraptors.
Abilities: Flower Veil | Stakeout
CAP: It pretends to be a flower in order to ambush unsuspecting Grass-type Pokémon, though any curious bug Pokémon passing by are also a welcome snack.
1 Leafage
1 Dragon Dance
1 Peck
1 Feather Dance
1 Metal Claw
7 Razor Leaf
11 Agility
16 Pluck
20 Steel Wing
24 Drill Peck
28 Leaf Blade
36 Strength Sap
42 Pollen Puff
50 Axe Kick
55 Leaf Storm
Egg Group: Mineral, Grass
Hone Claws (:Metang:, :Sprigatito:)
Leech Seed (:Bulbasaur:, Exeggcute, :Chikorita:, :Hoppip:, :Cottonee:, :Petili:, :Deerling:, :Skiddo:, :Phantump:, :Smoliv:)
Rapid Spin (:Baltoy:, :Cryogonal:, :Bergmite:, :Bounsweet:, :Bramblin:)
Whirlwind (:Shiftry:, :Tropius:)
Wing Attack (:Flapple:)
TM001: Take Down
TM004: Agility
TM007: Protect
TM012: Low Kick
TM014: Acrobatics
TM018: Thief
TM021: Pounce
TM025: Facade
TM027: Aerial Ace
TM030: Snarl
TM031: Metal Claw
TM033: Magical Leaf
TM047: Endure
TM051: Sandstorm
TM055: Dig
TM058: Brick Break
TM060: U-turn
TM061: Shadow Claw
TM062: Foul Play
TM066: Body Slam
TM070: Sleep Talk
TM078: Dragon Claw
TM080: Metronome
TM082: Thunder Wave
TM084: Stomping Tantrum
TM085: Rest
TM093: Flash Cannon
TM094: Dark Pulse
TM095: Leech Life
TM099: Iron Head
TM100: Dragon Dance
TM103: Substitute
TM104: Iron Defense
TM111: Giga Drain
TM115: Dragon Pulse
TM119: Energy Ball
TM127: Play Rough
TM130: Helping Hand
TM137: Grassy Terrain
TM140: Nasty Plot
TM152: Giga Impact
TM156: Outrage
TM159: Leaf Storm
TM163: Hyper Beam
TM170: Steel Beam
TM171: Tera Blast
TM179: Smack Down
TM181: Knock Off
TM185: Lunge
TM194: Grassy Glide
TM197: Dual Wingbeat
TM204: Double-Edge
TM205: Endeavor
TM206: Petal Blizzard
TM216: Feather Dance
TM223: Metal Sound
TM229: Upper Hand
 
I think outside of any Abilities or moves grass biggest strength is being able to handle the huge amount of Ground types running around in the meta. It’s not immune like flying types but adding a water resistance makes most grass types great as an answer to the common water types in the tier. Pressuring Bulky Waters and Grounds offensively as well is a bonus here.

IMO leaning into the Ground matchup is pretty good. This could happen offensively by adding a secondary type Like Water,or Fighting to hit grounds that aren’t weak to Grass) or defensively by doubling down on the resistances. I especially like Ghost as an addition as a lot of removal options in the tier are Ground types and blocking rapid spin while resisting or being immune to ground is just really strong as evidenced by Sinistcha and bulky Necturna sets as well as several Balloon Ghost types in the tier.
Ghost also Gives you a widely neutral Stab to patch up the plethora of resists that Grass faces.
The other typing I like as a more offensive option is Grass/Fighting it’s a surprisingly sturdy defensive typing and while it has a weird overlap between the resists of its STABs it’s pretty easy to fix this up with one or two coverage moves. Both grass and fighting have super high base power options that boost the STABs potential despite the awkward resists.

As for Abilities I think it’s hard to propose typings based on an Ability without heavy poll jumping.

That said for these Combos specifically:

Kontakt Status can boost Hex (though it doesn’t really interact with any Grass moves I think). Flamebody in particular has some synergy with Moves like Strength Sap and Protect clones.
For Grass Fighting I’m gonna Group Stamina here since it boosts body press and again has funny potential with strength sap.
Serene Grace makes Shadow Ball and Energy Ball (Seed Flare much more threatening and probably has a bunch of other interactions with other Grass moves)
Sniper can boost moves like leaf Blade Shadow Claw (Flower Trick, RIP Storm Throw)
Technician always has some condenders like Bullet Seed Arm Thrust Shadow Punch and a bunch of coverage moves.
Contrary is an ability that could be funny with Grass Fighting though might be hard to balance right.
Prankster obviously has a bunch of options though mostly on the grass side of things (prankster strength sap stun spore anyone?)
Tough Claws is the attacking version of this with several boosted moves for grass, ghost and fighting which is especially interesting for The already high power Grass and Fighting moves.
Triage boosts both Fighting and Grass moves.
Sharpness again boosts a bunch of Grass and Fighting moves as well as good coverage.

Overall Grass/Fighting likely offers more different options with move ability interactions that all lean into the typings strengths (I still like grass ghost for being so good against ground types)
 
Okay slate time!

Grass*
Grass/Fairy
Grass/Fighting
Grass/Flying
Grass/Ghost
Grass/Rock

*Mono typing will always be on the slate for starters just in case lol

These typings have been given support/suggested from at least 1 person in the thread and figured it would be worth to slate them all since I like all of them and don't have any issues in particular with any of the given combinations.

Voting will end in about 24 hours!
 
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