Whoooooooooooop Venomoth!

[phoenixwright7]

... I wonder if Edgeworth still feels like a fool whenever he does that...? Anyways...

Venomoth (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 6 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Bug Buzz
- Sleep Powder
- Protect
- Stun Spore

I've been interested in running a Venomoth lead for a little while now and I gotta say, it's pretty cool. As long as luck's on my side, I should be able to take down at least two pokémon, one through sleep and the other through being battered around by Bug Buzz. With Tinted Lens Bug Buzz is the only attack I'll almost ever need and hit's surprisingly hard. Protect stops any kind of stupidity that fake out leads can cause and allows me to scout a little. Stun Spore is mostly filler and is used on the off chance that I can cripple a fast sweeper or something. I've thought about replacing Stun Spore with Toxic Spikes since Venomoth should be able get toxic spikes down fairly reliably, though, with Venasaur being one of the most used threats out there right now, I worry that laying Toxic Spikes could be useless early game and I question rather or not Venomoth could reliably get up Toxic Spikes mid game. Avery cool lead, none the less.

---
Uxie @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/6 Def/252 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Psychic
- U-turn

Uxie's gotta be the best wall that I've ever tested, being able to wreck havoc with what ever status you decide to run while being able to get up stealth rock almost all of the time. Now, I know it might seem odd that I'm running Toxic on Uxie, but I have my reasons. Firstly, Yawn would get in the way of sleep powder, something that I can't have. Secondly, I don't think Thunder Wave would be all that helpful on my team, actually (like I said, Stun Spore's just filler on Venomoth ). Toxic allows me to deal with bulky waters, or other walls not named Registeel or Clefable (Or Steelix ) and can allow Toxicroak and Sceptile to more easily sweep. Psychic is reliable stab that can "Hurt" some things and U-turn allows Uxie to get out of there while poking at the opponent. I had thought of running Heal Bell on Uxie over U-turn, but I decided to run U-turn 'cause I know it works. still thinking about Heal Bell, though.

---
Toxicroak (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/6 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sludge Bomb
- Vacuum Wave
- Nasty Plot
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Nasty Plot Toxicroak seemed pretty cool So I decided to run him as one of my two sweepers. After a Nasty Plot, Toxicroak can hit surprisingly hard on the special side and carries a more reliable priority move then other Toxicroak (and It's stabbed too ). Sludge Bomb hits what ever doesn't resist it/is immune to it while Hidden Power Ground stops other Toxicroak and poisons in general from being able to wall me. I've thought about changing Hidden Power Ground to Hidden Power Psychic for Weezing, but then again, what's Weezing gonna do to Toxicroak, let it set up another Nasty Plot? Most Weezing don't seem to run Flamethrower these days so I should be fine.

---
Sceptile (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Atk/6 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Leaf Blade
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake

My second set up sweeper. I've heard that Swords Dance Sceptile's a huge threat and I've been interested in testing it too. After a Swords Dance, Sceptile should be able to sweep quite a bit and so far he hasn't been to bad. He can be pretty easily forced out though do to his frailness so I've wondered if I should maybe change his set to a mixed set. I fear that changing to mix could make my team more easily walled though.

---
Absol (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Pursuit
- Psycho Cut
- Night Slash
- Superpower

Psychics and Ghosts can give this team problems, especially Toxicroak since the poor gal's completely walled by ghosts and outsped and KOed by psychics. This where Absol comes in. I've never been big on Absol's Swords Dance set and banded Absol seems to slow. Scarf Absol puts the opponent in a "Damned if I do, Damned if I don't" situation by either killing the retreating pokémon, or outspeeding and probably KOing the gutsier pokémon anyways. Absol can alos work as a very nice revenge killer for other weakened stuff and, to add insult to injury, has Super Luck to make hax even more likely and annoying. After everything's said than done, I like Absol a lot more than I thought I would and he's worked fairly well so far.

---
Arcanine (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 120 HP/152 Atk/238 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Extremespeed
- Flare Blitz
- Morning Sun
- Will-o-wisp

At the end of the day, I needed something that could come in and absorb fire attacks and he needed to be able to hit fairly hard on the Physical side. Arcanine seemed like the best pokémon for the job, having fantastic speed, attack and pretty good bulk, along with a heal move and priority. The last slot was a bit hard to pick. I mean, Bulky waters that like to sponge a hit or two from Arcanine would not like to eat Toxic, but Physical threats don't like Willo-o-wisp either. In the case of Rhyperior that may want to switch into Arcanine, it probably wouldn't like Hidden Power Grass more than his other moves giving it some merit as well. I selected Will-o-wisp in the end since most of my team was pretty frail and could probably benefit from it more than anything else.

That's the team. I'm not sure if there are any threats that I'm weak too, though I know that Vensaur and Registeel could potentially give me problems since I don't have a sleep absorber and no one on my team would like Thunder Wave. If there are any threats that I don't have covered and am weak to, or if anyone has any suggestions, then please tell me.

 

[Benlisted]

Hey, I like the look of this team so I'll quickly suggest something that stuck out to me.

On Venomoth, instead of the random filler Stun Spore, why not use U-turn or Psychic? U-turn after you sleep something obviously lets you scout out the opponent's switch and respond appropriately. Psychic hits the only things Tinted Lens Bug Buzz is resisted by for at least neutral if not SE damage (Moltres, Charizard, Blaziken, Toxicroak).

 

[phoenixwright7]

Hey, I like the look of this team so I'll quickly suggest something that stuck out to me.

On Venomoth, instead of the random filler Stun Spore, why not use U-turn or Psychic? U-turn after you sleep something obviously lets you scout out the opponent's switch and respond appropriately. Psychic hits the only things Tinted Lens Bug Buzz is resisted by for at least neutral if not SE damage (Moltres, Charizard, Blaziken, Toxicroak).

Eh... As great of an attack as U-turn generally is, and as nice as hitting the things that bug buzz really can't is, I dunno... I'm kinda looking for more ways that Venomoth can support the team than doing more damage or scouting with it, which is why I mentioned Toxic Spikes. If Venomoth can reliably set up Toxic Spikes not only in the early game (which I'm pretty sure it can considering how Venomoth can work ) but also in the mid game, after Venasaur and friends are dead, then I'm probably going to test that. If not, then I'll consider your suggestions.

 

[Uncommon Madness]

You are incredibly weak to Rock Polish Rhyperior and to entry hazard. Arcanine/Venomoth can't really perform their job if they lose 25% of health every time they switch in and Spikes may be a pain for the team too as you do a lot of switches.

Uxie doesn't really help the team by providing useful resistances and it's attacks don't hit hard enough to actually damage things. Donphan provides rapid spin support, resistances and walls strong physical attackers like Rhyperior and Aggron. Uxie should be replaced with:

Donphan @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 52 Hp/252 Atk/200 Def
Nature: Adamant
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock

The moves are pretty self explainable. Ice Shard was chosen over Assurance because priority helps against Swellow, RP Torterra, DD Altaria and other Grass/Flying pokés. Donphan also attracts Mismagius and Rotom a lot and for this reason has a lot of synergy with your Absol.

Good Luck.

 

[phoenixwright7]

You are incredibly weak to Rock Polish Rhyperior and to entry hazard. Arcanine/Venomoth can't really perform their job if they lose 25% of health every time they switch in and Spikes may be a pain for the team too as you do a lot of switches.

Uxie doesn't really help the team by providing useful resistances and it's attacks don't hit hard enough to actually damage things. Donphan provides rapid spin support, resistances and walls strong physical attackers like Rhyperior and Aggron. Uxie should be replaced with:

Donphan @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 52 Hp/252 Atk/200 Def
Nature: Adamant
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock

The moves are pretty self explainable. Ice Shard was chosen over Assurance because priority helps against Swellow, RP Torterra, DD Altaria and other Grass/Flying pokés. Donphan also attracts Mismagius and Rotom a lot and for this reason has a lot of synergy with your Absol.

Good Luck.

Hm... I haven't really gone against a spikes team with this team yet, or a RP Rhyperior, so I guess I'll just have to take your word for it. There's two things about Donphan though. One, I'm not so sure that Donphan can wall physical attackers do to my experiance with it on my last team. Donphan was two slow to really do anything to Aggron who set up a Magnet Rise on him, and Rhyperior muscled it's way through Donphan anyways. Two, I don't really like running both Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock on the same set. I know that it can work, but part of the reason why I like Donphan is 'cause it has Priority and the ability to do pretty good damage to Ghosts on the same set. Uxie so far has been working excellently, though if I do run into the problems that you claim that I have (Stealth Rock weakness goes without saying, but like I said, I haven't gone up against a Rhyperior or a spikes team with this team yet ) Then I'll consider switching something out to patch it up.

 

[sbdnate]

I'm sure he does...


As for the team, the Donphan definitely seems like it would be something worth testing... He could be an answer to your venasaur problem if you catch it on the switch with Ice Shard, and, like the other guy said, he has great synergy with Absol.

 

[phoenixwright7]

I'm sure he does...


As for the team, the Donphan definitely seems like it would be something worth testing... He could be an answer to your venasaur problem if you catch it on the switch with Ice Shard, and, like the other guy said, he has great synergy with Absol.

If I remember correctly, Donphan's Ice Shard doesn't do much to Venasaur (I think it's a 3 hit KO ) and even if it did do enough, Donphan can't really switch in unless Sleep Clause is already in effect and it's a Physical variant. I'm just really not sure about Donphan.

 

[sbdnate]

I meant catching Venasaur as it switched in... But yeah, it probably wouldn't do enough... Still though, it could be worth testing.

 

[phoenixwright7]

I meant catching Venasaur as it switched in... But yeah, it probably wouldn't do enough... Still though, it could be worth testing.

Perhaps... I dunno though... The only pokémon I could take off the team is Uxie and Uxie does incredibly well, walling a lot of things and setting up stealth rock and toxicing stuff. I'll think about it...

 

[Myrrh]

Hey, phoenixwright7

A few points I just want to comment on, currently your team runs sleep powder, will-o-wisp, toxic and stun spore. This combination of status certainly does have its merits, however, you may find that all these status sometimes conflict with each other, especially if your opponent has a status absorber. For that reason, I suggest replacing stun spore with an offensive move, like Psychic for coverage or sludge bomb for STAB to utilize the 252 Special attack EVs more effectively. Toxic Spikes should not be considered, as the lack of bulk and poor typing, would make it difficult for venomoth to run an effective support movepool. Furthermore it will restrict the spreading of status, like burn and sleep.

For Uxie, I don't see how toxic gives sceptile and toxicroak an easier chance of a sweep as bulky waters such as Milotic and Slowking/Slowbro will most likely be switching out in fear of Leaf storm or Sucker punch respectively anyway. Thunder-wave will generally be a far more superior option, as it allows you to slow down opposing fast or scarfed pokemon, thus reducing the likelihood of sceptile and toxicroak getting revenge killed. Don't change Uxie to Donphan as it will give you a weakness to special attacks and rapid spin isn't all that necessary.

The sets for toxicroak and sceptile are quite good, as one special sweeper and one physical sweeper do complement each other quite nicely, although, just to note they do have a few common weaknessess ie fire and flying which may prove to be bothersome during certain situations such as double switching your sweepers to apply pressure to walls.

For Arcanine, it should be replaced with a bulky water, namely Milotic. Milotic still provides your team with the crucial fire and ice resistances, but it also acts as a perfect check to rock polish Aggron and Rhyperior (which your team is weak to), who both have plenty of opportunities to set up, such as on Uxie, or Absol's choice locked pursuit and can provide your team with a secondary defensive core, as Uxie would be worn down from repeated switch-ins. The rest+sleep talk variant especially, can even provide your team with an effective status absorber.

Overall, nice team and good luck.

 

[phoenixwright7]

Hey, phoenixwright7

A few points I just want to comment on, currently your team runs sleep powder, will-o-wisp, toxic and stun spore. This combination of status certainly does have its merits, however, you may find that all these status sometimes conflict with each other, especially if your opponent has a status absorber. For that reason, I suggest replacing stun spore with an offensive move, like Psychic for coverage or sludge bomb for STAB to utilize the 252 Special attack EVs more effectively. Toxic Spikes should not be considered, as the lack of bulk and poor typing, would make it difficult for venomoth to run an effective support movepool. Furthermore it will restrict the spreading of status, like burn and sleep.

For Uxie, I don't see how toxic gives sceptile and toxicroak an easier chance of a sweep as bulky waters such as Milotic and Slowking/Slowbro will most likely be switching out in fear of Leaf storm or Sucker punch respectively anyway. Thunder-wave will generally be a far more superior option, as it allows you to slow down opposing fast or scarfed pokemon, thus reducing the likelihood of sceptile and toxicroak getting revenge killed. Don't change Uxie to Donphan as it will give you a weakness to special attacks and rapid spin isn't all that necessary.

The sets for toxicroak and sceptile are quite good, as one special sweeper and one physical sweeper do complement each other quite nicely, although, just to note they do have a few common weaknessess ie fire and flying which may prove to be bothersome during certain situations such as double switching your sweepers to apply pressure to walls.

For Arcanine, it should be replaced with a bulky water, namely Milotic. Milotic still provides your team with the crucial fire and ice resistances, but it also acts as a perfect check to rock polish Aggron and Rhyperior (which your team is weak to), who both have plenty of opportunities to set up, such as on Uxie, or Absol's choice locked pursuit and can provide your team with a secondary defensive core, as Uxie would be worn down from repeated switch-ins. The rest+sleep talk variant especially, can even provide your team with an effective status absorber.

Overall, nice team and good luck.

Hey

I think I may switch out Stun Spore for an attacking move since I really haven't had much use for Stun Spore. I'm still considering Toxic Spikes though. From what I can tell, Venomoth should be able to get up at least one layer of Toxic spikes almost every battle, which isn't bad for something that's pretty frail. As I've said before though, I'm mainly worried about Venomoth being able to come in later and setting up the spikes, since I'll most likely lose the Toxic Spikes every battle thanks to Venasaur coming in to absorb them.

Toxic keeps those bulky waters from sticking around for any length of time, and this includes Azumarill from what I can tell. While your right in saying that they will probably be forced to switch anyways, they can still be a problem. Especially Milotic who can do enough damage to Toxicroak and Sceptile to hinder their sweep with Ice beam. I don't know if I'm just being stubborn here, but I've had a pretty good amount of success with Toxic. You do make a valid point about Thunder Wave though. Thunder Wave could be very nice especially if/when I remove Stun Spore on Venomoth.

If I get rid of Arcanine, then I kinda lose my check to Venasaur. I already have to play around Vensauar since I lack a sleep absorber. I mean, Milotic can absorb sleep, but then what? Most Milotic are out sped by venasaur and take alot of damage (I don't think they're KOed by Leaf Storm, but it's pretty close ) from Leaf Storm + Sludge Bomb, or are set up on by the swords Dance set, and... well... Yeah... Ice beam doesn't get anywhere near a KO so things ain't good for me. I am considering changing Will-O-Wisp out for Toxic or maybe even Hidden power grass since it seems that bulky waters like to switch into Arcanine more than anything else (If I put Toxic on Arcanine, then I can take Toxic off of Uxie and put thunder wave on it )

Also, wouldn't Vacuum Wave KO, or come really close to KOing Aggron?

For the record, further testing of this team may be a bit slow since I'm testing another team at the same time.

 

[Myrrh]

You already have 3 grass resists (1 4xresistance) and 2 poison resists, even uxie can take a couple of hits and maybe paralyze then follow with a SE+STAB psychic, so I must say that you have venusaur fairly well covered. Generally, just take the sleep powder with milotic, then switch to Venomoth with its 4x resist to leaf storm and hit it with a STAB super effective bug buzz/psychic kk. And as you're running an offensive team, midgame, toxic spikes are unnecessary and you will probably be sacing venomoth if you try to set it up.

 

[sharkz]

You already have 3 grass resists (1 4xresistance) and 2 poison resists, even uxie can take a couple of hits and maybe paralyze then follow with a SE+STAB psychic, so I must say that you have venusaur fairly well covered. Generally, just take the sleep powder with milotic, then switch to Venomoth with its 4x resist to leaf storm and hit it with a STAB super effective bug buzz. And as you're running an offensive team, midgame, toxic spikes are unnecessary and you will probably be sacing venomoth if you try to set it up.

little nitpick, Venusaur isn't weak to Bug Buzz cos its part poison.

 

[phoenixwright7]

You already have 3 grass resists (1 4xresistance) and 2 poison resists, even uxie can take a couple of hits and maybe paralyze then follow with a SE+STAB psychic, so I must say that you have venusaur fairly well covered. Generally, just take the sleep powder with milotic, then switch to Venomoth with its 4x resist to leaf storm and hit it with a STAB super effective bug buzz/psychic kk. And as you're running an offensive team, midgame, toxic spikes are unnecessary and you will probably be sacing venomoth if you try to set it up.

Here's the thing though

It's very possible that Venomoth would be dead by the time that Venasaur shows it's face.

If it doesn't kill it, Sludge Bomb will put a huge Venasaur size dent into Sceptile, who won't be able to do much to Venasaur without a boost.

Toxicroak... He's kinda in the same boat as Sceptile. Thankfully, the more common variants of Venasaur can't hit Toxicroak super effectively. With his frailty, Venasaur might not need to though.

Uxie can take the hit, but how much is that Psychic really going to do? Thunder Wave would probably help in dealing with it though.

I dunno. It's not that Arcanine can resist the attacks that I'm worried about, it's that Arcanine can take the hit and hit Venasaur back incredibly hard.

Edit: And the fire Immunity's really nice. And the priority to deal with Houndoom that try to set up. Though Milotic can deal with Houndoom too (I don't think a +2 Dark Pulse would kill Milotic. Can't remember though )

 

[/B/utterfree]

A Water/Ground dual-type could probably replace Arcanine or Uxie for the wall job, while also covering Venomoth's weaknesses almost in a better way possible. Whichever Water/Ground Pokemon you wish to use is up to your own personal taste, should you decide that one would be good for your team. Just check the movepools first. Gastrodon has Recover, but Quagsire has Water Absorb.