Whoop-dee-doo, another OU RMT

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So after realizing one of my previous standard teams sucked, I got motivated to make a new one. Please be gentle, as it's my first post and my first RMT here >.< EDIT: Forgot to say that it's for Wi-Fi though I might end up testing it on Shoddy.

Italics = revisions

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Azelf @ Leftovers
Levitate
42 HP, 252 Sp Atk, 216 Spd
Timid
_____

Nasty Plot
Psychic
Flamethrower
Grass Knot/Thunderbolt

First of all, my Azelf doesn't have HP Fighting, but that isn't that devastating for me because without GK I can't cover two fairly common threats in my metagame: Slowbro and Starmie. Standard EV spread for 352 Speed to beat Timid Gengar, max special attack, and the rest in HP. I don't have any issues with the EV spread or moveset, really; I'm not sure about item choice, though. Life Orb allows me pick of Blissey (and everything) more easily, but I'm wondering if it's safer to use Lefties instead. On a side note, thankfully, nothing in the team has a weakness that overlaps with one of Azelf's, which is the main reason I chose it as my special sweeper. Added Thunderbolt possibility for stopping starter Gyarados and to hit Heatran.

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Blissey @ Leftovers
Natural Cure
20 HP, 232 Df, 80 Sp Atk, 176 Sp Df
Calm
_____

Wish
Softboiled/Protect
Flamethrower/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt
Toxic/Thunder Wave

Going off of the standard WishBliss set Smogon gives. The EVs are a little tweaked from the original spread A) because I rarely like to entirely mimic a "standard" EV spread, and B) I usually to try to give anything using Leftovers an optimum-lefties number. The spread hits 656 HP, then the 80 Sp Atk and 176 Sp Df EVs given in the analysis. For those who haven't read it or don't remember off the top of their head, with Calm it guarantees survival from three SpecsLuke Aura Spheres, as well as survival from three Specs Gengar Focus Blasts. The only issue is, as you can see, the moveset. There are pros and cons to all of the moves listed, so based on the rest of my team and what it is capable of covering, I'm hoping to get some advice to at least narrow down my options some. For instance, Flamethrower/Toxic is a good combo, except for the threat of Heatran--but can I cover it elsewhere in my team or not?

The reason I'm contemplating WishBliss over the usual, standard Bliss is both to do something new (and unexpected in the metagame I play in) as well as to be able to Wishpass to Tentacruel or even Salamence after it's taken some abuse from Life Orb.

Considering switching this out for Wish Vaporeon.

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Gliscor @ Leftovers
Sand Veil
244 HP, 14 Atk, 252 Df
Impish
_____

Earthquake
Stealth Rock
Ice Fang
Roost

Stealth Rock is crucial to Tentacruel's ability to pick off certain threats. More on that in Tent's section. I'm not sure if I should dump Knock Off for Aerial Ace or Ice Fang for Heracross or Garchomp respectively, but I do love the former as a crippling move. Obviously, Roost/EQ are non-negotiable. Not much to say here...

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Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Liquid Ooze
204 HP, 106 Df, 200 Sp Df
Calm
_____

Surf
Ice Beam

Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin

My Rapid Spinner, spiker, and second special wall. 204 HP EVs is for optimum lefties, 352. 200 Special Defense EVs makes this set a bit sturdier than the one offered in the analysis for the Support set. OK, the reasons why I didn't go the whole nine yards and give Tentacruel 96 Sp Atk and 36 Spd EVs... 36 Speed EVs is meant to outrun Jolly Tyranitar, something that is non-existent in the metagame that I typically play in. Jolly Garchomp, with a speed of 333, is also not common in said metagame. Thus, I couldn't think of anything else crucial to outspeed. Obviously, I already outspeed Bulky Gyarados with no DDs and don't need any EVs for that purpose. The reason for no Special Attack EVs is so I could pile them into Defense to increase durability, particularly from things like Infernape with Thunderpunch. With Stealth Rock in play courtesy of Gliscor, Tentacruel can guarantee a OHKO against both Salamence and Gyarados with Ice Beam or HP Electric. However, I'm not sure if I want to go with STAB Surf or the good coverage of Bolt-beam.

You may have noticed that with the last three walls, they all complement each other's weaknesses and resistances.

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Salamence @ Life Orb
Intimidate
176 Atk, 198 Sp Atk, 136 Spd
Rash
_____

Roost
Draco Meteor
Brick Break
Fire Blast

Mixmence in its wall-shattering glory. The EV spread gives Mence enough speed to outspeed standard Choice Band Heracross. I'm considering doing something different with the speed, however, since Choice Band Heracross is uncommon in my usual metagame. If I dropped some more speed EVs, though, I wouldn't know how low to go, so that's giving me some problems... 176 Attack is to hit a 350 Attack stat, which allows Mence to always 2HKO max HP/max Df Blissey with Brick Break and Life Orb equipped. The rest goes to Special Attack. My only discrepancy about the actual moveset is the second slot; a lot of things don't like being pummeled by STAB Draco Meteor--yet Dragon Dance would give me a chance to raise my speed and thus be able to take out a lot more sweeping threats. It would also allow me to dent Blissey more quickly with Brick Break without the necessity of the health-sapping Life Orb. If I dump Life Orb, Expert Belt or Lefties in its place.

Rash > Mild because of the lower likelihood of Salamence surviving Ice Beam and that non-hindered defense works better with Intimidate.

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Lucario @ Life Orb
Steadfast
6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spd
Adamant
_____

Swords Dance
Close Combat
Extremespeed
Crunch

[overhauled]

Standard Swords Dancing beast. Not much to put here.

Conveniently, Lucario's and Salamence's typing complement each other perfectly; Luke resists all of Mence's weaknesses and vice versa.

__________

UPDATE: Threat List
Common in my metagame, a large threat
Moderately common in my metagame, noteworthy
Uncommon in my metagame

Tyranitar: TTar, should I actually see one, is easily taken care of by Lucario's CC, Salamence being the second best option with Brick Break (preferably hitting while predicting a switch-in). BOAH's Tbolt does 37-44% against Vaporeon, so Vaporeon can stall and Surf it to death if need be. Gliscor doesn't really fear TTar's attacks except BOAH Ice Beam; without that, Gliscor can finish off a weakened TTar with EQ

Gyarados: Should I go with Wish Vaporeon, that will be my primary counter for Gyarados. HP Electric does 58% minimum to a Bulky Gyarados and has a chance of OHKOing should Gyara switch in on SR. Meanwhile, none of Gyara's usual attacks hit it for super-effective.

Infernape: Vaporeon and Tentacruel shrug of Grass Knots without Nasty Plot and don't like Tpunch versions so much. Gliscor doesn't mind Infernapes without Nasty Plot or Hidden Power Ice. Azelf can revenge kill or threaten a starting Infernape. Salamence walls all of Infernape's attacks except for HP Ice.

Azelf: Vaporeon can take hits from Azelf should it not already be set up. Most variants don't run Tbolt, and as long as the ones I face keep it that way, Vaporeon should be able to stall it out with Wish/Protect. Since Azzy usually runs Life Orb, that can get very tiring, too. Luke can hit it hard with SD Extremespeed, or without SD if Azelf has already taken some damage, though it isn't really safe to switch in.

Electivire: Should I give Salamence EQ, that will suffice. I'll have to predict it coming in though since it's gonna be faster. Again, if Luke is sure that Extremespeed can kill E-vire before it has a chance to EQ him back, that can work too.

Heracross: Gliscor stops Heracross dead in its tracks. Azelf outspeeds non-scarf variants and hits with STAB Psychic. Salamence wouldn't mind switching in and intimidating a predicted Megahorn or Close Combat, it has to watch out for Stone Edge though.

Salamence After switching in on Stealth Rock, Tentacruel and Vaporeon are both in range to kill it with Ice Beam--only one or the other's probably going to have Ice Beam, though. Gliscor fears Draco Meteor but can Ice Fang an incoming Salamence (though it will get intimidated) or come in on one that's determined to be all-physical.

---> Togekiss: Azelf can easily pick on Modest, less bulky versions with T-bolt, but won't be able to take Air Slashes in return. Vaporeon can stall as well as hit with Ice Beam, though Roost gives this strategy problems.

Gengar: Azelf outspeeds normal, Timid Gengars and easily kills with STAB Psychic. Vaporeon and Tentacruel don't mind Timid Tbolts. Choice Scarf Gengar is more deadly but can be picked off with careful prediction and locking it on a move that puts it in a bad situation. SDLuke can predict incoming Gengars and Crunch.

Garchomp: Gliscor serves as the main Chompah counter, running Ice Fang. It won't OHKO, but will do a good amount of damage after the dragon comes in on spikes/rocks. Vaporeon and/or Tentacruel can predict it coming in and Ice Beam.

Lucario: Gliscor doesn't really fear physical Lucarios, or any Lukes without HP Ice. It can pick of Luke with STAB EQ. Chances are any Luke that's gonna be using HP Ice will be a SpecsLuke, which can be outsmarted with prediction and some creative use of the bulky waters on my team. Salamence can switch in, Intimidate, and resist Close Combat, then threaten EQ or Brick Break if it bothers to stay in. Mence will be slower, though.

Starmie: Azelf ties with standard Starmies in speed and can T-bolt. Vaporeon can switch in on Ice Beam or Surf and whittle down/stall Starmie out with HP Electric, Wish and Protect. Lucario can predict it coming in and use Crunch.

---> Weavile: Lucario resists all of Weavile's main attacks except Brick Break. Vaporeon and Tentacruel don't take a lot of damage from non-CB variants, but they can't do much back to Weavile in return. Azelf can survive a Pursuit if it stays in and can hit back with Flamethrower. Weaviles in my metagame typically don't run HP EVs but it's risky elsewhere.

Dugtrio: Azelf can safely share space with Dugtrio because Levitate keeps it safe from Arena Trap. Dugtrio won't be able to do much to Vaporeon nor Gliscor, and both have super-effective attacks to finish it off.

---> Porygon-Z: Lucario and Mence can both predict P-Z switching in and use CC and Brick Break respectively. Because P-Z's raw power will eat through my bulky waters with Tbolt, good prediction is the only other defense I have here. If I decide to use Blissey > Vaporeon, Blissey can tank it all day (unless it gets too many Nasty Plots in).

Machamp: Gliscor can wall it but walks the fine line between safe and suicidal due to Ice Punch on Machamp. All sweepers are faster and can finish a weakened one off, especially Azelf who has STAB, super-effective Psychic. The only thing to fear there is Bullet Punch.

Snorlax: Lucario, CC. Lucario usually walls Snorlax's attacks, but it's not going to take hits all day. Salamence can finish off a weakened one with Brick Break (DD would come in handy here) or 2HKO.

Zapdos: Versions without HP Ice don't really do much to Gliscor, but the reverse is true as well. Azelf can revenge kill with Psychic as long as Zapdos isn't too, too bulky.

Suicune: Azelf will boost its power faster than Suicune can Calm Mind. Azelf has to fear Roar, but other than that Nasty Plot'd Tbolt will take care of it.

Breloom: The only thing Breloom can do to Gliscor is Spore it. Gliscor can't really do much back except use Ice Fang, but the ability to shrug and Roost off any Seeb Bomb/Focus Punch damage will put a halt to mushroomy doom. Azelf is faster and easily kills with Psychic.

Ninjask: Starting Salamence walls Ninjask's only attack, and Intimidates, throwing a wrench in most hopes to Baton Pass. The thing's so frail it'll die to any attack thrown at it except resisted ones, and even a few .5x resisted attacks will kill it. Gliscor also has Stealth Rock handy so Ninjask can't come out safely later in the fight.

Metagross: Salamence can EQ it to finish it off, but fears Ice Punch variants. Vaporeon walls Metagross's attacks except for Thunderpunch. In other words, I've got Meta pretty much covered unless it's running both punches.

Heatran: Vaporeon and Tentacruel both give Heaty problems and have STAB Surf to answer it with. Salamence has one or two attacks that are super-effective to use against Heaty, and can come in on a Choice-locked Fire Blast or Earth Power. Lucario can use CC on slower, Choice Specs versions.

Celebi: SD Luke can Crunch it, Salamence can Fire Blast or Draco Meteor it, Nasty Plot Azelf can Flamethrower it. All three don't take much from Grass Knot, the superior move choice on Celebi but Luke might have to watch out for a random HP Fighting.

Jirachi: Lucario, with Life Orb taken into account, 2HKOs Jirachi with Close Combat. It might be safer to wait until I have one SD, at which point I can guarantee a OHKO. After a Special Defense drop and Life Orb damage, Psychic from Jirachi could really hurt. Salamence can use Fire Blast.

Dragonite: See Salamence and Garchomp

Mamoswine: *gulp* Lucario revenge killing with CC, Salamence coming in on a predicted EQ if I'm feeling really ballsy, and hit with Fire Blast or Brick Break. Vaporeon can take CB'd Ice Shards and possibly Ice Fangs, but not much else.

Gallade: Salamence can come in on CC, Intimidate, and hit with Draco Meteor. Azelf can come in to revenge kill and Flamethrower, but since a lot of Gallades are bulky with special defense, it's less reliable. Not much need for Gallade counters on my turf, though.

Yanmega: Vaporeon doesn't fear Yanmega's attacks and can hit back with HP Electric or Ice Beam. The only attack from Yanmega Tentacruel fears is HP Ground. Lucario can come in on Bug Buzz or Air Slash and use Extremespeed. Salamence walls the bug STAB but has to take a hit from Yanmega first before being able to attack it.

Kingdra: Dragon moves all the way. A good, STAB'd, Life Orb'd Draco Meteor will shut Kingdra up. Kingdra gets walled by Vaporeon and Tent without HP Electric.

Roserade: The best Rose can muster against Salamence is Sludge Bomb. Only Roserades with HP Fire can hurt Lucario. Azelf outspeeds and will OHKO the frail thing with STAB, super-effective Psychic.

Scizor Salamence Intimidates, resists Scizor's best STAB, and has Fire Blast to tear through it. Azelf also runs Flamethrower. Scizor can't do much to Tentacruel thanks to the poison typing and doesn't really do anything to Gliscor, either.
 
That particular defensive core is pretty solid, but the main problems with it now is Mamoswine and Gyrados. Yes, I know Tentacruel has HP Electric, but that's not cutting it against a Gyrados with EQ. Without Surf you're also MixApe weak, and without Ice Beam you're MixMence weak. I'd really just run Surf/Ice Beam.

Individually:

Blissey: Don't lead with this, it's set-up bait for so many common leads. You say you play WiFi, no hacks, but yet you actually have a WishBliss? I'd say go with Seismic Toss, but that's impossible if it's already in D/P, so Ice Beam/Toxic/Softboiled/Thunderbolt, because you can't take Gyrados for beans and Toxic will wear down Mamoswine faster.

Gliscor: You really kind of need Ice Fang for Garchomp. I seriously don't believe that Garchomp isn't common. Use it over Knock Off.

Salamence: Fine, use Draco Meteor as DD Mence is easily walled, and you need a wall-breaker. Also sweeping threats won't switch in to a Salamence.

Lucario: I don't care how bulky you make Lucario, it's still not going to take hits, and with those common weaknesses it'll drop pretty quickly. Just use the standard 252 Atk/Speed as it really needs that attack to kill things like Skarmory. Also Inner Focus>Steadfast because anything Flinching you will be faster the next turn anyways (Yanamega with Speed Boost, Togekiss with Scarf or Paralysis support), so you can get in a SD or CC. I like Crunch to take those more common Bulky Ghost/Psychics and you can predict an incoming Gengar too.

Azelf: I don't see why you need to use Grass Knot to hit a Starmie that outspeeds you and puts a major dent in you with STAB Surf. If you want keep it, but max Speed instead of Sp. Atk. Leftover/Life Orb is a personal choice, but 2 LO's without Wish support is not recommended. Tread carefully with this for incoming Weaviles as you lack HP Fighting, because it only take a few HP EV's to survive the Flamethrower should you run Leftovers.
 
Blissey: Don't lead with this, it's set-up bait for so many common leads. You say you play WiFi, no hacks, but yet you actually have a WishBliss? I'd say go with Seismic Toss, but that's impossible if it's already in D/P, so Ice Beam/Toxic/Softboiled/Thunderbolt, because you can't take Gyrados for beans and Toxic will wear down Mamoswine faster.

lawl, I never said Blissey was my lead. Part of the thing about the team I don't know is what to lead with. Blissey's there first because when I first wrote the team down, Blissey was my first choice. And if you'd read a little more closely I said I DON'T have a WishBliss but hope to get one.

Gliscor: You really kind of need Ice Fang for Garchomp. I seriously don't believe that Garchomp isn't common. Use it over Knock Off.
Never said it was uncommon. XD Fair enough

Salamence: Fine, use Draco Meteor as DD Mence is easily walled, and you need a wall-breaker. Also sweeping threats won't switch in to a Salamence.
Mixmence was kinda supposed to serve as my wallbreaker...

Lucario: I don't care how bulky you make Lucario, it's still not going to take hits, and with those common weaknesses it'll drop pretty quickly. Just use the standard 252 Atk/Speed as it really needs that attack to kill things like Skarmory. Also Inner Focus>Steadfast because anything Flinching you will be faster the next turn anyways (Yanamega with Speed Boost, Togekiss with Scarf or Paralysis support), so you can get in a SD or CC. I like Crunch to take those more common Bulky Ghost/Psychics and you can predict an incoming Gengar too.
It has a 4x resist to bug, dark, and rock, immunity to poison (useful against random Sludge Bombs or Toxics), resistance to ice, dragon and grass. Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Like Choice Items and other things, using BulkyDancing Lucario is just a matter of prediction; obviously, EQ or Fire Blast are not safe to just jump into, but something like Dragon Claw is. The ability thing is minor to me and is simply because my Luke with godly IVs happens to have Steadfast (might test it on Shoddy with Inner Focus). And again, it has been successful and I'm not unlucky enough to battle n00bs but once in a blue moon.

I'm not rejecting your ideas, just trying to argue my point as well. SDer or CBer if I do a more "standard" set?

Azelf: I don't see why you need to use Grass Knot to hit a Starmie that outspeeds you and puts a major dent in you with STAB Surf. If you want keep it, but max Speed instead of Sp. Atk. Leftover/Life Orb is a personal choice, but 2 LO's without Wish support is not recommended. Tread carefully with this for incoming Weaviles as you lack HP Fighting, because it only take a few HP EV's to survive the Flamethrower should you run Leftovers.

Most Starmies (at least to my knowledge) hit 352 and would tie with Azelf. My Azelf is really good, and I really, REALLY don't think I'll be able to get my hands on one with competitive stats and HP Fighting (believe me, I've tried). I thought about Weavile, my way of somewhat handling it was going to be NP'd F-thrower though I know Weavile has decent base special defense.

Alas, LO VS. Lefties, I'm still undecided.
 
I suggest using Azelf as your Lead, he is pretty decent at taking out common leads especially on wifi, Definitely run LO since lefties would be kind of a waste since he wont be taking hits much anyways.
 
Ok sorry about that but, you'd be hard-pressed to actually get your hands on a WishBliss as they're very uncommon, but should you get one it would be a welcome addition. MixMence is your best lead. Usually in RMTs the lead is the first Pokemon showing so thats why I assumed that.

Even with those resistances, you'd still take some decent damage. Furthermore all of those types are used in tandem with another attack that does big damage to Lucario. Lucario isn't exactly fast so the opponent usually gets another hit in first. The only safe way to get in is a Choiced attack that doesn't hit for neutral or better, preferably a Pursuit that was used on your Azelf. I was thinking of the same set, SD/CC/Crunch/Extremespeed with a Life Orb. That set without attack EV's and Life Orb won't cut it in the damage department. Ability is a minor issue but I thought I'd point it out incase you hadn't bred already so you don't have to change it.

If you Nasty Plot when CBWeavile switches in you die as Weavile is faster. Use Lefties on Azelf as I've already recommended 2 Life Orbs.

Jolly Garchomp, with a speed of 333, is also not common in said metagame. Thus, I couldn't think of anything else crucial to outspeed.

Um, yeah.

I also forgot to mention that on Salamence you can use Roost>Dragon Claw as Brick Break will hit the Special Walls that you'd actually stay in on harder.

Azelf is fine if you're on WiFi I guess.
 
Ok sorry about that but, you'd be hard-pressed to actually get your hands on a WishBliss as they're very uncommon, but should you get one it would be a welcome addition. MixMence is your best lead. Usually in RMTs the lead is the first Pokemon showing so thats why I assumed that.

Yea I know they're rare, couldn't even find one on here O_o. I'd thought Wish was an XD move, not an event move, which changes things... I could have SR'd/bred/whatever for one in XD if it were possible, now my WishBliss idea is generally shot unless I can find one on here. T_T To save confusion I moved Azelf to the front. None of the other pokes make sense as a lead anyway, really.

Even with those resistances, you'd still take some decent damage. Furthermore all of those types are used in tandem with another attack that does big damage to Lucario. Lucario isn't exactly fast so the opponent usually gets another hit in first. The only safe way to get in is a Choiced attack that doesn't hit for neutral or better, preferably a Pursuit that was used on your Azelf. I was thinking of the same set, SD/CC/Crunch/Extremespeed with a Life Orb. That set without attack EV's and Life Orb won't cut it in the damage department. Ability is a minor issue but I thought I'd point it out incase you hadn't bred already so you don't have to change it.
I understand it looks gimmicky, but yea... you'd be surprised. But I suppose that more brute strength would be preferable.

Max attack, Life Orb, and 1x SD does... *calculates* 304 minimum to 400-Df Skarm. Most Skarms don't even have that much defense, and with added SR support, again, I'm thinking it has a good chance at a OHKO. Sounds pretty good to me.

If you Nasty Plot when CBWeavile switches in you die as Weavile is faster. Use Lefties on Azelf as I've already recommended 2 Life Orbs.
Sounds good.

I also forgot to mention that on Salamence you can use Roost>Dragon Claw as Brick Break will hit the Special Walls that you'd actually stay in on harder.

I considered Roost, but abandoned that idea for the sake of coverage/STAB. If I had a WishBliss, I could Wishpass some health back to it after it's taken some LO abuse. If I'm wrong to not use Roost, a little more in-depth synopsis of the pros and cons between Dragon Claw and Roost would be nice.

EDIT: Even if I were to put Tbolt on Blissey, my team would still be pretty Gyara-weak since clearly Blissey isn't the best DD Gyarados counter. XP Suggestions? Oh, and for the record, I didn't say that GARCHOMP was uncommon in my metagame. Just Jolly ones. (hence, Scarfchomps run rampant)
 
I suggest using Azelf as your Lead, he is pretty decent at taking out common leads especially on wifi, Definitely run LO since lefties would be kind of a waste since he wont be taking hits much anyways.

If you ever consider this for Shoddy change your lead, CBTar leads are very common on Shoddy and should you ever face one you'l be down 6-5 right off the bat due to Pursuit.
 
*bump-da-bump bump*

If you ever consider this for Shoddy change your lead, CBTar leads are very common on Shoddy and should you ever face one you'l be down 6-5 right off the bat due to Pursuit.

Well, it depends. Because this team is centralized around a metagame very different than those that are standard, I probably would get friends from my metagame to help me test it.

Need more feedback on this team before I finalize it, so here's the things that still need help/tweaking:

- Azelf's moveset; with the coverage found elsewhere in the team, does Psychic/Flamethrower/Grass Knot (Hidden Power Fighting aside) offer the most viable coverage?
- Still need to whittle down the move choices with Blissey. I might have found someone who can hook me up with a good WishBliss, so WishBliss will probably be in the team to pass health to pooped out teammates. Protect VS. Softboiled have the same pros and cons as mentioned in the analysis and based on the coverage in my team, I can't decide which would work better for me. Same with my third and fourth moves.
- On Tentacruel, Surf/Ice Beam was recommended though I do have Hidden Power Electric available. Gyarados counter in the team, then, = ?
- Still not sure about Dragon Claw VS. Roost on Salamence. If I get the WishBliss I'm hoping to get, I could get away with Wish Support and use Dragon Claw for a second physical move.
- Also on Salamence, Stealth Rock support is a key part of this team. That said, after switching in on Rocks, Blissey is always 2HKO'd by Brick Break from an Expert Belt'd Salamence. For survivability, should I take that alternative? If I do, I'll be using Dragon Claw over Roost.
- Apparently my team is Mamoswine weak (which I've noticed is particularly difficult to counter). Haven't gotten any advice on how to correct that, however.
 
This team is by no means done, and still needs help.

- Azelf's moveset; with the coverage found elsewhere in the team, does Psychic/Flamethrower/Grass Knot (Hidden Power Fighting aside) offer the most viable coverage?
- Still need to whittle down the move choices with Blissey. I might have found someone who can hook me up with a good WishBliss, so WishBliss will probably be in the team to pass health to pooped out teammates. Protect VS. Softboiled have the same pros and cons as mentioned in the analysis and based on the coverage in my team, I can't decide which would work better for me. Same with my third and fourth moves.
- On Tentacruel, Surf/Ice Beam was recommended though I do have Hidden Power Electric available. Gyarados counter in the team, then, = ?
- Still not sure about Dragon Claw VS. Roost on Salamence. If I get the WishBliss I'm hoping to get, I could get away with Wish Support and use Dragon Claw for a second physical move.
- Also on Salamence, Stealth Rock support is a key part of this team. That said, after switching in on Rocks, Blissey is always 2HKO'd by Brick Break from an Expert Belt'd Salamence. For survivability, should I take that alternative? If I do, I'll be using Dragon Claw over Roost.
- Apparently my team is Mamoswine weak (which I've noticed is particularly difficult to counter). Haven't gotten any advice on how to correct that, however.

Would someone PLEASE offer their opinions?
 
Hidden Power Fighting can kill a Jibaku TTar with 252 HP, 216 SDef and Careful Nature. I think you should use Grass Knot though.

I like Protect more than Softboiled on Wish Blissey.. was more useful for me.

If you can't get Wishbliss MAYBE you can use Vaporeon with HP Electric for Gyarados coverage, or Jirachi since Jirachi and Salamence work well together (cover their weaknesses) although Jirachi is hard to get.

Also I don't think Tentacruel can counter Gyarados well because of Earthquake.

Eh.. you could put a Bronzong over Azelf or Lucario for Mamoswine.. Not sure though. It depends, do you want to keep offense or have more defence?
 
I really like this team and if it is working for you I would say keep it.

Keep Lefties on Azelf, as you will usually not OHKO Weavile anyways, so 2HKO with Flamethrower as you survive its CB Pursuit due to the HP EVs.

Keep LO on Luke, as what makes it successful is not its SE hits like Electivire, yet the ability to smash common physical walls with a very powerful neutral STAB Close Combat. Without the LO you are at 700 Attack after a SD instead of 910, a huge difference and Lucario doesn't mind sandstorm or Stealth Rock, which is the reason most pokes stay away from it.

Same thing for Salamence, except he does mind SS and Stealth Rock, which is why I recommend Roost>Dragon Claw, as Dragon Claw doesn't really hurt anything your other moves don't hit harder, except for Shuckle in the sand.

WishBliss with Tentacruel is some very nice synergy, and althought common, I applaud you.
 
Hidden Power Fighting can kill a Jibaku TTar with 252 HP, 216 SDef and Careful Nature. I think you should use Grass Knot though.

I like Protect more than Softboiled on Wish Blissey.. was more useful for me.

Sounds good.


If you can't get Wishbliss MAYBE you can use Vaporeon with HP Electric for Gyarados coverage, or Jirachi since Jirachi and Salamence work well together (cover their weaknesses) although Jirachi is hard to get.

If I want to use Jirachi I can, I already have a Sub-CM one, but I think it would come down to either Vaporeon or WishBliss. Can someone run me through the pros and cons of Vaporeon vs. WishBliss as special walls, noting the rest of the team?

Eh.. you could put a Bronzong over Azelf or Lucario for Mamoswine.. Not sure though. It depends, do you want to keep offense or have more defence?

More than three walls would not be ideal. MAYBE I could put Bronzong in as my phys. wall instead of Gliscor? Though that would leave me more Infernape-weak.

I really like this team and if it is working for you I would say keep it.

I wouldn't know if it's working, as it's not finished yet. ^^' Depending on where I go with this team (I DEFINITELY still don't have that WishBliss yet, the guy has yet to even look in his wi-fi thread) I'll have to breed/trade for new things.

I recommend Roost>Dragon Claw, as Dragon Claw doesn't really hurt anything your other moves don't hit harder, except for Shuckle in the sand.

sounds good

So in that way, it's already clear that Vaporeon is better at countering Gyarados than Calm WishBliss; is there anything else to be considered in a special wall for this team? There's still the issue of Mamoswine weakness in this team.
 
I really disagree about using Leftovers on Azelf. You won't be distinguishing 2hkos from 3hkos when you're working with a Pokemon generally that fragile. Even if you went with something that would SEEM useless, like Wiseglasses, IMO it would be a lot better...

Also that Zelf is walled by Heatran, and LolHoundoom. Putting Thunderbolt on it would be a good choice, since you could also be using it to defeat Gyarados leads.
 
Heatran yes, I'm not going to be fighting Houndoom in OU.

Thinking Tbolt > Grass Knot?

My only thing is that if this team gets faced against a Sandstorm team, all three of my sweepers are packing Life Orb. At least Azelf would be regaining the damage it takes from Sandstorm.

The debate about Wish Vaporeon VS. WishBliss still stands.
 
Ok, here's my take:Azelf looks good with t-bolt over Knot. tho, if you see Bandtar or Bandweavile, you're already down 5-6. Lucario is fragile, I don't like Life Orb. I think Sash would be best, but maybe leftovers.I don't like Roost on salamence with it not having any EVs in Hp or a defense. if you go first, though, you have the benefit of only a 2x ice weakness, which is handy. moves look good, but maybe Roost should be Dragon Dance or Earthquake.Gliscor and Tentacruel are perfect.Blissey would be fine, but, Wish Vaporeon with Hidden Power: Electric will add some more gyarados support, alright Mamoswine support, provoded you don't switch into Banded EQ. vaporeon's typing also compliments Tentacruel and Gliscor well.should be good with this though.
 
Ok, here's my take:Azelf looks good with t-bolt over Knot. tho, if you see Bandtar or Bandweavile, you're already down 5-6. Lucario is fragile, I don't like Life Orb. I think Sash would be best, but maybe leftovers.I don't like Roost on salamence with it not having any EVs in Hp or a defense. if you go first, though, you have the benefit of only a 2x ice weakness, which is handy. moves look good, but maybe Roost should be Dragon Dance or Earthquake.Gliscor and Tentacruel are perfect.Blissey would be fine, but, Wish Vaporeon with Hidden Power: Electric will add some more gyarados support, alright Mamoswine support, provoded you don't switch into Banded EQ. vaporeon's typing also compliments Tentacruel and Gliscor well.should be good with this though.

here's the trick with lucario, switch it in on something that you will kill with close combat 100% of the time (best is probably blissey). SD then rape. Life orb is necesary because it IS fragile, plus it's a late game sweeper so FS isn't all that useful especially if SRs are up or hail. If anything on lucario i say go for bullet punch>crunch. Chances are you'll only use that if a ghost appears and about 70% of the time it'll be gengar. With SRs it's a OHKO and without them it's something like 93% avg iirc. Dusknoir is a pain in the butt though, so it's your choice. i agree that roost isn't a great choice for salamence and EQ gives you some nice type coverage (especially over tentacruel-who is a beast). DD has some nice mindgames though which helps bring out a physical wall to be killed with a special attack. Just as a note: vaporeon doesn't really complement the weaknesses because neither is neutral to grass....but w/e.

to get away from the wall o' text.....One thing i've noticed is that another pokemon who's weaknesses are similar to blissey's are Umbreon's. He's a pretty awesome pokemon, sadly, he sucks at damaging his threats, but that's why you have gliscor and tentacruel i guess. Try this: sassy umbreon (0 spe IV) (max sp defense, enough EVs to hit 368 in hp, rest in def/atk) wish, payback, curse, bp/protect. Protect if you want it to toxicstall with the toxic spikes better, bp if you want to give a cool boost to lucario (and if he has 2 priority moves.... ;-) ) or to gliscor and of course it helps make wish support even better
 
Azelf can survive one hit from CB Weavile Pursuit if it stays in. Tyranitar, period, is uncommon in my metagame. If Azelf sees one with Pursuit, it's dead, but every poke has weaknesses and there's no way around the BandTTar weakness. If you REALLY think I need to fear Pursuit leads, I COULD make Lucario my lead except, excluding two said dark-types, Azelf handles leads better.

Focus Sash and Leftovers don't allow for the sweeping capabilities that fragile things like Lucario need. BulkyDos can use Leftovers because it's, well, Bulky, and can stand to take a few hits. Lucario can't. Focus Sash is ruined by Spikes/SR, and after switching in on them, serves absolutely no purpose. Life Orb also allows Lucario to always OHKO 400-Df/Max HP Skarm with CC after one Swords Dance and after Skarm switches in on Stealth Rock. Due to the staggering popularity of Dusknoir and Cresselia, I think I'm going to stay with Crunch and predict an incoming Gengar.

Assuming my special wall will be Vaporeon or WishBliss, I have Wish Support so I guess technically I don't have to have Roost. I'm not convinced I need EQ except for maybe Tentacruel, and if Tentacruel comes in on Salamence, that probably means it has Ice Beam anyway. Draco Meteor / Brick Break / Fire Blast complete the "type coverage triad" anyway, except Brick Break can't hit ghosts, and Draco Meteor will do more damage to ghosts than EQ (assuming the ghosts don't Levitate and aren't entirely immune to EQ). DD is a possibility.

I'm not keen on using Umbreon because my last wall needs to have Gyarados coverage.
 
bump da bump bump, this team still needs a lot of help, as clarified by the threat list I added to the end of the first post. More holes in coverage than I'd realized. Please offer your advice and opinions and such. Arrows indicate a BIG weakness.
 
Been four days since anyone's helped out with this team, please offer your opinions. Again, I added a threat list so there's much to be helped here.
 
Consider the previously mentioned Vaporeon over Azelf - this gives you a Gyarados counter whilst simultainuously providing you with Wish support, since Blissey + Wish is not a legal combination anymore. That "bulky water" presense won't go a miss when opposing Garchomp and Salamence are looking down on you. Blissey / Vaporeon / Gliscor / Tentacruel has enough coverage for the metagame.

You shouldn't bump more than once, yet you have bumped three times whilst triple posting in the process. Please do not repeat this offense.
 
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