Why Delay When You Can Just Stall? Peaked #5 At The Time.

[Quotationz]

~Introduction~

I've always wondered whether or not an online Pokemon battling program existed that had a community and ranking system until my friend linked me to Shoddy Battle. I first downloaded Shoddy and thought it was pretty cool and had a good ranking system and lots of different people to get matched up with for battles. Through Shoddy Battle I then learned about Smogon. I started checking Smogon daily and checking for the best evs/move sets/etc... I learned, studied, was tutored and everything. I now know almost everything about predictions, what to expect, how to team build and all that. I'm making this lengthy because it's my first ever RMT. For those of you who do not know me, I am most known for creating 4534546 alternate accounts on Shoddy to shoddy/dick around/etc... Anyways, enough with my annoying story and on to the team.

~Quick View~

~Process~

~Skarmory~
Impish
252 HP 88 ATK 168 SPE
*Lum berry*
-Brave Bird-
-Roost-
-Spikes-
-Taunt-

I picked Skarmory as a lead because I wanted something bulky that could shut down slower leads from setting up Stealth Rocks and out speed other Skarmorys and set up a free layer of Spikes. I also used it because with the aid of Lum Berry, Roserade, Smeargle, and other slower leads cannot set up right away and I get up 1-2 free layer of Spikes right off the bat. Brave Bird is used to OHKO Machamp 100% of the time or else it gives the team some issues. I didn't pick a Shed Shell because Magnezone isn't really seen anymore and even if Skarmory dies, I still have plenty to keep going with. Taunt is explained above and Spikes is obviously to deal residual damage.

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~Swampert~
Relaxed
252 HP 240 DEF 16 SPE
*Leftovers*
-Roar-
-Stealth Rock-
-Earthquake-
-Ice Beam-

Swampert was chosen for this team because it not only is bulky, but it sets up the best and most important move in the game which is Stealth Rock. Swampert blocks out Electric and takes little from Fire and Steel type attacks. He is also one of the phazers of this team which is used to deal residual damage to Pokemon when timed correctly. Swampert helps me deal with Heatran/Gliscor/Jirachi/Tyranitar/ and many other Pokemon that could normally cause lots of problems.

~Blissey~
Bold
252 DEF 176 SPDEF 80 SPATK
*Leftovers*
-Thunder Wave-
-Ice Beam-
-SoftBoiled-
-Seismic Toss-

Blissey is the best special attack absorber on the game and that's why it was chosen for this team. Thunder Wave is used to status whatever switched in on Blissey. Ice Beam is used to ohko Salamence. SoftBoiled is Blissey's typical healing move and Seismic Toss is used to hurt whatever. The special attack evs are used to ensure that Rotom/Gengar subs will be broken and Salamence is OHKO 100% of the time if no hp evs or Yache Berry.

~Tyranitar~
Jolly
252 ATK 252 SPE 4 DEF
*Choice Scarf*
-Pursuit-
-Crunch-
-Earthquake-
-Stone Edge-

Tyranitar was chosen for this team because I needed a Choice Scarfer and something that can kill Gengar/Rotom/Starmie/etc... That cause this team issues. Pursuit is to severly damage or ohko the Pokemon listed above. Crunch is typical Stab move. Earthquake is used over Superpower because I wanted to damage Infernapes and Jirachis more. Stone Edge kills Zapdos/Salamence and what not and is good stab. The ev set is just the standard one, max speed is a must to outspeed any non scarfed Rotom/Starmie/Gengar and max attack is used to ensure ohkos.

~Gyarados~
Impish
248 HP 248 DEF 12 SPE
*Leftovers*
-Rest-
-Waterfall-
-Sleep Talk-
-Roar-

~Rotom-H~
248 HP 156 DEF 8 SPE 96 SPDEF
*Leftovers*
-Will-O-wisp-
-Thunderbolt-
-Pain Split-
-Shadow Ball-

Rotom was picked for the team because it is simply the best spin blocker in the game and it's typing and resistances is most excellent. Max HP is a must to survive attacks. The DEF evs ensure that Tyranitar will not OHKO. Speed is to outspeed a few things. Wisp was picked for cripping, Discharge for stab attack and 30% chance to paralyze, Shadow Ball as stab, Pain Split to last longer and deal damage.

~Conclusion

This team has peaked me #5 on the leaderboards under the alt To The Sky. Anyways, please rate and give suggestions backed up with reasons to edit the team. I appreciate everything and a threat list is coming soon!
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[TubaKing]

Whether you stole this team or not, the descriptions are rather lacking (there isn't even a paragraph for Gyarados!).
I'm not really sure what the Attack EVs on Skarmory are doing for you. You currently do 75.6% - 89.8% to Attacking Lead Machamp with Brave Bird according to Smogon's damage calculator. The current Taunt Skarmory set on site not only outspeeds your Skarmory, but still 2HKOs Machamp
(67.7% - 80.3%) with Brave Bird and is physically bulkier than the EV spread you're running.
Unless 240 Def on Swampert allows you to take any hits in particular, you can afford to invest 52 EVs in SpDef to take more hits on the special side from things like Salamence's Draco Meteor (sacrificing four EVs from Speed to contribute to this would still allow you to outrun the majority of other Swamperts out there).
I like the spread you're running on Blissey. The only thing that 252 HP/ 252 Def Bold is really popular for is for surviving Heatran's Explosion without prior damage (83.2%-97.9%) anyway and Blissey's sky high base HP makes 252 HP often inefficient for full stall.
As long as Blissey is alive to wall special attackers, this team seems pretty solid.

 

[august]

Hi.

First off, you're going to have a tough time against Spike Stacking teams (who generally carry a fast Taunt Skarmory as well as a Pursuit Tyranitar to take care of Rotom-a), especially seeing as you have no spinner. I believe you should use Forretress over Skarmory, as you retain the ability to lay Spikes, as well as being able to hit Rotom forms with Payback and Rapid Spinning away Stealth Rock as well. If you use Forry, you will suddenly realize that Gyara lives a lot longer with Forry spinning away Rocks. As for losing coverage in switching from Skarm -> Forry, the only one i'd even worry about a little is Machamp i guess, but you have Restalk Gyara and Wisp Rotom, so it isn't exactly a HUGE deal. The combination of Lead Forry + ScarfTar + Swampert pretty much beats every lead, as Pert can Stealth Rock on Fires like Heatran and Infernape, Forry Spikes / Spins on Swampert, Metagross, Bronzong, and bulky leads in general, and Scarftar switches into Trick leads to nail them with Pursuit.

Tinstrong (Forretress) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Rapid Spin
- Payback
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes

Gyro Ball can be used over Toxic Spikes if you really hate DDMence i guess, otherwise Toxic Spikes are good for stalling out various things like Vaporeon and Tyranitar.

Next off, I suggest you use atleast some method of healing on Rotom-h, whether it be Rest / Sleep Talk / Thunderbolt / Will O Wisp, or perhaps Pain Split / Will O Wisp / Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt. Those sets will allow you to spinblock Forretress easier, I also reccommend an EV spread of 248 HP / 156 Def / 8 Spe / 96 SDef. The speed outspeeds Restalk Rotom who only invests 4 Spe, while the Defense allows you to take hits similarly to how you do now, and the extra SDef allows you to spinblock easier against Starmie.

If you choose to try Forry over Skarm, I suggest ditching Thunder Wave on Blissey for Heal Bell, as you have 2 restalkers, and this will allow you to handle Taunt Toxic Gliscor a bit easier. You can also choose to run Wish Bliss, although it seems your rather set. I don't see why you're so worried about Sub Rotom / Sub Gengar, seeing that you have Swampert and Tyranitar. If you're super worried, you can run 100 SDef on Pert for Rotom / Gar (whilst also becoming a better check to MixMence). If you choose to forego Ice Beam, 152 HP / 252 Def / 104 SDef is a pretty good spread for Wish / Cleric Bliss.

Anyway, hope i helped.

PS: To The Sky is Reverb's alt.. good try though

PSS: Get a description for Gyara or this is at risk of getting locked.

 

[Curtains]

This is the standard Stall team nowadays. But like the other guy said fortress is a much better option since you can spin rocks that can hinder your most valuable member. But i can see where some lead matchups can be trouble without scarmory. Such as leads like machamp. But gyarados counters machamp well. Its a matter of whether or not you want extra protection against stall, or good lead matchups.

 

[Quotationz]

Curtains:I may or may not test Forretress. I'll test it and let you know it does, thanks for the rate.

August:Thank you for all of the suggestions. I gave Rotom Pain Split and changed up the ev spread. Will let you know whether or not I test Forretress. Thanks for the idea of Heal Bell on Blissey, I'll use it if I decide to make Rotom Sleep-Talk. Thanks for the rate.

Vacancy:Go troll somewhere else bud.

Tubaking: It has ohko all of them so far and the Smogon calculator is known for being off. I use the one from psypokes or whatever it's called. Thanks foe the rate.

 

[Quotationz]

Sorry for double posting but it keeps deleting my Gyarados description when I update.

 

[TubaKing]

I agree that Specially Defensive Forretress is worth testing on this team. Rapid Spin support is invaluable in stall and you could definitely use more special bulk on this team. Gaining Toxic Spikes support doesn't hurt, either.

Just to see what would happen, I created a team of six Skarmorys with your EV spread against a team of 6 identical Attacking Lead Machamps that only knew Sleep Talk (which I realize most Attacking Lead Machamps do not know). Of course, I turned Species and Strict Damage Clauses off.
The results were as follows:

Hide

SkarmoryTester sent out Skarmory (lvl 100 Skarmory ?).
MachampTester sent out Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 82% of its health.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 31% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 89% of its health.
MachampTester's Machamp fainted.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 7% of its health.
---
MachampTester switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 87% of its health.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 33% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
Skarmory used Roost.
Skarmory restored 50% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
Skarmory used Roost.
Skarmory restored 50% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 84% of its health.
MachampTester's Machamp fainted.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 5% of its health.
---
MachampTester switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 87% of its health.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 33% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 90% of its health.
MachampTester's Machamp fainted.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 5% of its health.
---
MachampTester switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 84% of its health.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 32% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
Skarmory used Roost.
Skarmory restored 50% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
Skarmory used Roost.
Skarmory restored 50% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 81% of its health.
MachampTester's Machamp fainted.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 6% of its health.
---
MachampTester switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 76% of its health.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 29% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 82% of its health.
MachampTester's Machamp fainted.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 9% of its health.
---
MachampTester switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 87% of its health.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 33% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 80% of its health.
MachampTester's Machamp fainted.
SkarmoryTester wins!

Brave Bird did: 82%, 89%, 87%, 84%, 87%, 90%, 84%, 81%, 76%, 82%, 87%, and 80%. Notice that 76% - 90% is the result I got with the Smogon Damage Calculator.
I rechecked everything (nothing was wrong) and redid the test to get these results:

Hide

SkarmoryTester sent out Skarmory (lvl 100 Skarmory ?).
MachampTester sent out Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 89% of its health.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 34% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 79% of its health.
MachampTester's Machamp fainted.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 4% of its health.
---
MachampTester switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 87% of its health.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 33% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
Skarmory used Roost.
Skarmory restored 50% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
Skarmory used Roost.
Skarmory restored 50% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 83% of its health.
MachampTester's Machamp fainted.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 5% of its health.
---
MachampTester switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 82% of its health.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 31% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 77% of its health.
MachampTester's Machamp fainted.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 7% of its health.
---
MachampTester switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Machamp lost 174% of its health.
MachampTester's Machamp fainted.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 38% of its health.
---
MachampTester switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
lucky13. has entered the room.
Skarmory used Roost.
Skarmory restored 50% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
irkkk has entered the room.
Skarmory used Roost.
Skarmory restored 50% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
irkkk has left the room.
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 77% of its health.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 29% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 76% of its health.
MachampTester's Machamp fainted.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 9% of its health.
---
MachampTester switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
Machamp lost 89% of its health.
Skarmory was hit by recoil!
Skarmory lost 34% of its health.
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
---
Skarmory used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Machamp lost 169% of its health.
MachampTester's Machamp fainted.
SkarmoryTester wins!

Here Brave Bird did: 89%, 79%, 87%, 83%, 82%, 77%, 174% (crit), 77%, 76%, and 169% (crit again), which still fits within the 76% - 90% from Smogon's Damage Calculator.
It takes 200 Attack EVs for Impish Skarmory to even have a chance of a OHKO with Brave Bird. Even 252 Atk Impish does 89.6% - 106%. Even with max Attack and a +Attack nature, Skarmory only does 98.2% - 116.5% to Attacking Lead Machamp.

Have nice day. :)

 

[SirCumsAlot]

Hello team stealer,

I recommend using Aromatheraphy over Ice Beam on Blissey, since really nothing on your team likes status, and it's really helpful for Gyarados. Brave Bird will not KO Anti-Lead Machamp, but you can Brave Bird then switch to Rotom and finish it off. I don't see how lead Machamp gives you problems when you have Gyarados, since they don't carry Stone Edge. Also you haven't listed what nature Rotom-A has.
Anyways nice stolen team.

Bye, Team Stealer.

Edit: the smogon damage calculator works better than the psypokes one, either you really haven't been laddering or you've been playing with idiots that didn't add Ev's or your just plain dumb.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

This is a very solid (albeit standard) stall team, and I can't find many issues with it. However, you are lacking a win condition (Perish Song or Trick) against bulky last Pokemon set up sweepers (Curselax, Cradily, etc.).

If these Pokemon are issues, you should consider placing a TrickScarf Jirachi or Perish Song Celebi somewhere on your team.

That's all I can suggest at the moment. Good luck.

 

[Quotationz]

Super Mario Bro:I don't really have room for either one of those suggestions.

SirCumsAlot:The one I used said OHKO and it has for me so far most of the time. Also, I did not steal this team so stfu.

Tubaking:Thank you for the calcs. The damage calculator I used did say it ohko most of the time but I guess not. Anyways, I did not steal this team it's obviously basic stall.

 

[GB_Packers_Ftw]

what nature are you running on your rotom?

Also i think toxic would be a big boost here especially if your considering dropping t wave on bliss and wow on rotom. I recomend toxic spikes on forrey.

 

[Grayheart]

If MixApe gets up a Nasty Plot (which is very easy against this team) you're pretty much done for, I suggest changing Gyarados into a Vaporeon with Wish+Protect as it can stall for a long time and also take on MixApe.

Also if you want room for a Trick user as Bro suggested you could change Rotom. But if you swap Gyara for Vappy you may want a RestTalk set on that instead.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

I have been playing around with the EVs on Gyarados, and this seems to be a much better EV spread for taking on the likes of Infernape:

Careful Nature
248 HP/188 Def/72 SpD

This spread guarantees the survival against a +2 Grass Knot from Neutral Natured Max Special Attack Infernape, and you also survive any combination of two moves from Mixape. You can also take away 12 SpD EVs and put them into speed, but I don't really see the point.

I am not sure if this spread is optimal, but I recently saw a similar spread which had the same goals in mind.

 

[Towelie]

If MixApe gets up a Nasty Plot (which is very easy against this team) you're pretty much done for, I suggest changing Gyarados into a Vaporeon with Wish+Protect as it can stall for a long time and also take on MixApe.

Also if you want room for a Trick user as Bro suggested you could change Rotom. But if you swap Gyara for Vappy you may want a RestTalk set on that instead.

Np Infernape beats Vappy (+2 focus blast ohkos).

 

[Shizzle]

@Towelie, Focus Blast is in this!
| Infernape | Move | Other (11) | < 9.0 |

Don't really need to prepare for that do you?

 

[cheesesticks]

@Towelie, Focus Blast is in this!
| Infernape | Move | Other (11) | < 9.0 |

Don't really need to prepare for that do you?

+2 focus blast vs standard Vaporeon 101.3% - 119.4% OHKO
+2 grass knot vs his Gyarados 74% - 87.3% almost a surefire OHKO with rocks
+2 flamethrower vs his Skarmory .... duh
+2 grass knot vs his Swampert.... duh (even focus blast does 117.6% - 138.9%)
+2 focus blast vs his Blissey 82.4% - 96.9% OHKO with rocks and 1 layer of spikes..even with just SR decent chance of OHKO
+2 flamethrower vs his Rotom 97.7% - 115.5% OHKO with rocks
Tyranitar outspeeds but Vacuum Wave is always a possibility

But yeah I'd say that requires some preparation.... the fact is that it CAN get that NP up whilst taking a weak thunderbolt from Rotom (this still allows a MINIMUM of 3 attacks even after stealth rock), setting up on Tyranitar locked into the wrong move, a sleeping Gyara if the Ape is ballsy, or as it scares out Skarmory. Even though it isn't that common, it is still tearing stuff up if it does appear.

I'd definetely go with a Careful nature and some SpDef investment on Gyara as reccomended above, a spread like 248HP/ 188Def/ 60SpDef/ 12Spe sounds good, survival against the NP Ape grass knot, 12 Spe for the base 80s around the 200speed mark, 248 HP to switch into stealth rock 5 times, 188Def to still take on physical attackers well. This spread will let you take on Heatran quite a bit more effectively who is at the centre of the metagame right now.

 

[Shizzle]

Umm, you really don't get it, do you? Its fairly obvious what I was saying, firstly 14.4% of Infernape's use Nasty Plot, secondly much less than 9% of Infernape's use Focus Blast, whatever could this mean o.O??

Lets not forget that making a team that can defeat any team of OUs and be able to counter each single OU and all their sets. Honestly changing something for this is rather silly.

 

[cheesesticks]

Umm, you really don't get it, do you? Its fairly obvious what I was saying, firstly 14.4% of Infernape's use Nasty Plot, secondly much less than 9% of Infernape's use Focus Blast, whatever could this mean o.O??

Lets not forget that making a team that can defeat any team of OUs and be able to counter each single OU and all their sets. Honestly changing something for this is rather silly.

I get it just fine, hence my use of the words 'Even though it isn't that common, it is still tearing stuff up if it does appear'.

To be honest, any version of Mixape can also leave massive dents in the team. Both special Mixape and physical Mixape with Mach punch + Uturn are doing a number on it.

If you also weren't so set on arguing any post that disagrees with yours, you would also notice that I said the set will help with Heatran.

Heatran + Mixape and more than enough reason to alter the EV spread, especially considering that Gyarados still deals with the physical threats he would usually deal with just fine.

Just an example of where else this would help....if you know the opponents Gengar is the popular new subsplit set, instead of taking 43.5% - 51.4% from a shadow ball, you can now take 36.9% - 43.8%. Considerably less. Whereas taking a Scizor U-turn goes from 13.5% - 16% to 15.5% - 18.3%. Not a whole load more.

The way the Metagame has developed since Latias' ban just calls out for this kind of Gyara spread. Intimidate + considerable amount of defensive EVS means you don't need that defensive nature to be an effective physical wall.

I know not every set of every pokemon can be prepared for, but when you consider that one of the largest threats to stall teams like this one is Infernape, why is it such a bad thing to have that extra insurance.

PS. Go away Shizzle.

 

[Shizzle]

Go away? Ok, you are arguing that he should change something based on a Pokemon which is only used 14.4% of the time on Infernape [Nasty Plot], and the move in question, is in the 9% usage with 10 other moves. What does this mean? That you don't need to prepare for it, namely because Focus Blast is used soooo rarely. What you should be able to take care off, is the standard Mixape. It should also be mentioned that Tyranitar can revenge kill easily, don't bring up the Vacuum Wave/Mach Punch Argument either, he can deal with Infernape.

 

[cheesesticks]

Go away? Ok, you are arguing that he should change something based on a Pokemon which is only used 14.4% of the time on Infernape [Nasty Plot], and the move in question, is in the 9% usage with 10 other moves. What does this mean? That you don't need to prepare for it, namely because Focus Blast is used soooo rarely. What you should be able to take care off, is the standard Mixape. It should also be mentioned that Tyranitar can revenge kill easily, don't bring up the Vacuum Wave/Mach Punch Argument either, he can deal with Infernape.

No I am arguing that he should change something based on Heatran...#2 in usage...and Infernape #9 (ALL sets, which I said in my last post but whatever, I gather you must have reading difficulties :S?).

It should be mentioned that Tyranitar can revenge kill?Er....how about I DID mention it outspeeds Infernape. Why shouldn't Vacuum Wave/ Mach Punch be mentioned? You can't exactly use the 'they aren't used' argument. Fact is Tyranitar cannot RELIABLY revenge kill Infernape, and certainly cant risk switching directly in, meaning its more than likely something is going to die.

| Infernape | Move | Mach Punch | 16.4 |
| Infernape | Move | Vacuum Wave | 11.7 |


Anyway, you are agreeing with me even if you don't know you are because my spread deals with Mixape better than the standard resttalk spread...and you said that Mixape should be prepared for.

The End...

 

[Shizzle]

Vaporeon can deal with Heatran, just the sheer amount of HP EVs he is using is already enough. Only 2 set of Infernape's sets can beat Vaporeon, both of which require a set up, one of which still beats the change you have suggested, the other set which can beat him requires him to be carrying Focus Blast, which is used much less than 9% of the time. What does this mean? You are basing this change on Vaporeon so you can beat a specific set [14.4% usage] and a specific move [less than 9%].

Also a combined 27% move usage between Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave is rather low anyway, not to mention neither can OHKO, even with 252 Atk/SpA and LO respectively. Not to mention the sheer combo off Sand Stream + Vaporeon wish protecting easily deals with sets that have not set up.

How does your set deal with Mixape better? In the end, Vaporeon still comes out on top with similar HP, Vaporeon can deal with MixApe perfectly fine right now, so MixApe has been prepared for.

Your whole argument is based pretty much on OH BUT +2 FOCUS BLAST OHKOs YOUR CURRENT VAPOREON SPREAD, the SD version beats out both, OMGOSH DONT USE VAPPY BECAUSE HE CANT DEAL WITH INFERNAPE? Seriously, think about things.

 

[cheesesticks]

Vaporeon can deal with Heatran, just the sheer amount of HP EVs he is using is already enough. Only 2 set of Infernape's sets can beat Vaporeon, both of which require a set up, one of which still beats the change you have suggested, the other set which can beat him requires him to be carrying Focus Blast, which is used much less than 9% of the time. What does this mean? You are basing this change on Vaporeon so you can beat a specific set [14.4% usage] and a specific move [less than 9%].

Also a combined 27% move usage between Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave is rather low anyway, not to mention neither can OHKO, even with 252 Atk/SpA and LO respectively. Not to mention the sheer combo off Sand Stream + Vaporeon wish protecting easily deals with sets that have not set up.

How does your set deal with Mixape better? In the end, Vaporeon still comes out on top with similar HP, Vaporeon can deal with MixApe perfectly fine right now, so MixApe has been prepared for.

Your whole argument is based pretty much on OH BUT +2 FOCUS BLAST OHKOs YOUR CURRENT VAPOREON SPREAD, the SD version beats out both, OMGOSH DONT USE VAPPY BECAUSE HE CANT DEAL WITH INFERNAPE? Seriously, think about things.

Dude...Are you talking about Vaporeon? Cause I have been talking about resttalk Gyara the whole time. O_O

Heatran + Mixape and more than enough reason to alter the EV spread, especially considering that Gyarados still deals with the physical threats he would usually deal with just fine.

Just an example of where else this would help....if you know the opponents Gengar is the popular new subsplit set, instead of taking 43.5% - 51.4% from a shadow ball, you can now take 36.9% - 43.8%. Considerably less. Whereas taking a Scizor U-turn goes from 13.5% - 16% to 15.5% - 18.3%. Not a whole load more.

The way the Metagame has developed since Latias' ban just calls out for this kind of Gyara spread. Intimidate + considerable amount of defensive EVS means you don't need that defensive nature to be an effective physical wall.

Why would I bother editing a Vaporeon spread when it wouldn't change any outcome...i.e. Vaporeon is always beating Mixape 1 on 1, Vaporeon is always losing to NP Ape if it comes in on NP.....

Anyway GJ on the mixup. Next time read carefully. The OP had not switched out Gyara for Vaporeon, and has not given the readers any impression that Gyara is to be replaced.

My original suggestion is below:

I'd definetely go with a Careful nature and some SpDef investment on Gyara as reccomended above, a spread like 248HP/ 188Def/ 60SpDef/ 12Spe sounds good

EDIT: @ Slater - it doesn't matter because Shizzle decided to jump the gun when he commented on my suggestion without even reading it properly. Summary - He started ranting about Vaporeon for w/e reason.

 

[Slater]

Why don't we just find out what it's gonna loose and gain for each of the two sets and see what's more of a threat change and test accordingly

 

[Shizzle]

Ok, lets look back.

Np Infernape beats Vappy (+2 focus blast ohkos).

@Towelie, Focus Blast is in this!
| Infernape | Move | Other (11) | < 9.0 |

Don't really need to prepare for that do you?

+2 focus blast vs standard Vaporeon 101.3% - 119.4% OHKO
+2 grass knot vs his Gyarados 74% - 87.3% almost a surefire OHKO with rocks
+2 flamethrower vs his Skarmory .... duh
+2 grass knot vs his Swampert.... duh (even focus blast does 117.6% - 138.9%)
+2 focus blast vs his Blissey 82.4% - 96.9% OHKO with rocks and 1 layer of spikes..even with just SR decent chance of OHKO
+2 flamethrower vs his Rotom 97.7% - 115.5% OHKO with rocks
Tyranitar outspeeds but Vacuum Wave is always a possibility

But yeah I'd say that requires some preparation.... the fact is that it CAN get that NP up whilst taking a weak thunderbolt from Rotom (this still allows a MINIMUM of 3 attacks even after stealth rock), setting up on Tyranitar locked into the wrong move, a sleeping Gyara if the Ape is ballsy, or as it scares out Skarmory. Even though it isn't that common, it is still tearing stuff up if it does appear.

I'd definetely go with a Careful nature and some SpDef investment on Gyara as reccomended above, a spread like 248HP/ 188Def/ 60SpDef/ 12Spe sounds good, survival against the NP Ape grass knot, 12 Spe for the base 80s around the 200speed mark, 248 HP to switch into stealth rock 5 times, 188Def to still take on physical attackers well. This spread will let you take on Heatran quite a bit more effectively who is at the centre of the metagame right now.

Umm, am I seeing things? Because I most certainly see Vaporeon there. Once again, you clearly don't know whats going on, NP Ape does not always beat Vaporeon, thats because Focus Blast is so rarely used. Whereas NP Apes will almost always carry Fire Blast/Grass Knot, and Hidden Power [Ice/Electric]/Vacuum Wave or something, Focus Blast is known to be a terrible move on Infernape, simply because he does not have the typing or bulk to risk missing, hence its low usage. What does this mean? NP Ape is going to be beating Gyarados almost 100% of the time because they carry Grass Knot, whereas Vaporeon will beat any variant not running Focus Blast, which is a rare move to see anyway.

 

[cheesesticks]

Umm, am I seeing things? Because I most certainly see Vaporeon there. Once again, you clearly don't know whats going on, NP Ape does not always beat Vaporeon, thats because Focus Blast is so rarely used. Whereas NP Apes will almost always carry Fire Blast/Grass Knot, and Hidden Power [Ice/Electric]/Vacuum Wave or something, Focus Blast is known to be a terrible move on Infernape, simply because he does not have the typing or bulk to risk missing, hence its low usage. What does this mean? NP Ape is going to be beating Gyarados almost 100% of the time because they carry Grass Knot, whereas Vaporeon will beat any variant not running Focus Blast, which is a rare move to see anyway.

Lol there are these things called paragraphs.....they usually imply a change of point and are indicated by leaving a line for 1 thing. Towelie confirmed that Vaporeon is beaten by NP Ape...I then confirmed it further by posting the following:
+2 focus blast vs standard Vaporeon 101.3% - 119.4% OHKO

and then proceeded to go through his team, notice the usage of the word 'his' in all my calculations (if they are a her,then no offence):
+2 grass knot vs his Gyarados 74% - 87.3% almost a surefire OHKO with rocks

Also, how does Towelie giving a damage calc for Vaporeon mean in anyway that my suggestion was for a Vaporeon, ESPECIALLY seeing as I explicitly said Gyara and Gyarados on more than 1 occasion. Your screw up buddy, not mine. Accept it.

NP does always beats Vaporeon (bar a miss, if it comes in on the NP like I said) because any user of NP Ape that isn't using focus blast is not a good player. Any good player on Shoddy right now would be using Focus Blast/whatever fire attack/Vaccum Wave because grass knot is NOT needed (anybody who is anybody knows that grass knot is glitched and so for the purposes of this team being used on shoddy, grass knot sucks) as all water types are dealt with via focus blast and focus blast actually beats Vaporeon (one of Infernapes best counters) whereas grass knot does not. Vacuum Wave is for the rampant ScarfTar and +2 priority is always good.

If you are not going to use focus blast, you may aswell be using SD Ape instead of NP. Heck if you aren't using Focus blast, there is just no point in using NP. Mixape, SD, CB, Physical Ape...They all outclass NP if it isn't using Focus Blast.

''Bad players don't use focus blast'' hardly equates to focus blast not being good on NP Ape.