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Why isn't there more attention to the Uber Metagame?
- Thread starter futuresuperstar
- Start date
Yes...surprised?
Saying that Ubers is "all about sweeping" is like saying basketball is "all about putting the ball through the hoop." The objective of the game is to score points by putting the ball through the hoop, so you do that whatever way you can. In Pokemon, even stall teams are all about eliminating the other team. Yes, the powerful pokemon in Ubers generally tend to favor attacking just like the very tall men in the NBA tend to favor dunking the ball but again, that doesn't make the game imbalanced in any way. It is just a more focused and (generally) faster method of playing. I guess I'm just saying that all the people who think Ubers is "imbalanced" are dead wrong. It's a solid, competitive metagame. It's just harder to get into because of the nature of catching the big beasts and because there are a lot of ignorant people that say it's "imbalanced" when it clearly isn't.
So whoever wrote the Smogon analysis for Arceus is ignorant? My impressions of uber battling have been indeliblely formed by the opinion for the Arceus analysis: Arceus is one of those top-tier ubers in DP that allow you to laugh in the face of anyone who suggests that the uber metagame might be even remotely balanced.
I think the biggest reason that I never got into Ubers was just because it's damn difficult. Looking at Jibaku's amazing warstories from Ubers is intimidating, because your prediction has to be amazing. It isn't at all limited like people say. Sure there are less pokemon that work. There are way more movesets though, which is even more dangerous. OU is relatively easy to get the hang of, especially because of stall letting you make a mistake or two. In Ubers every mistake you make is gonna kill you.
You know what'd be really interesting?
Doubles Uber metagame.
Man, I wouldn't even know where to start, but I think it'd be fun. I mean, this topic has inspired me to make an Ubers team, and doubles was always fun, so why not?
I'd need to figure out a good CS Water Spout Kyogre counter, though...
Doubles Uber metagame.
Man, I wouldn't even know where to start, but I think it'd be fun. I mean, this topic has inspired me to make an Ubers team, and doubles was always fun, so why not?
I'd need to figure out a good CS Water Spout Kyogre counter, though...
Latias/latios, Palkia, Trick Room, anything that survives it, Scarf Explosion Azelf, etc. Kyogre isn't THAT hard to counter in doubles.
Good point there. Quite honestly, I just became paranoid about Kyogre since I kept having them randomly show up when I double battled guys who'd never even heard of Uber clause. Fortunately, one of my leads was Thunder bait and ran Trick Room and I had a Lightningrod Marowak handy...
I'ma get started on that team now.
That was written early this summer. If you'll look in the Analysis Workshop, there is an actual analysis written from real experience (no offense to Surgo, it's just that he couldn't have been expected to predict the myriad of uses for Arceus we have now)
Every set Arceus has (which, btw, are not all sweeping threats) is completely counterable, and it's not the incredibly difficult task you make it out to be. Try actually reading the analysis and explanations.
The threat list in Ubers D/P is actually easier to deal with than OU in some respects because of the lower number of things you (typically) see.
What? Yes, less pokemon, but the uber metagame is the only metagame that has pokemon that has no counter. Palkia and mixed dialga, for example, have no counter. There isn't a single pokemon that can safely switch into those two without risking some sort of major damage under right conditions. Imo that's what makes the uber metagame hard.
Palkia: Grass Arceus
Mixed Dialga: Deoxys-D, Arceus (various)
This is also pretty controversial here. Arceus is technically not legit as of yet, so if you were to battle under a legit status, there is basically no hope. Even with arceus allowed, having grass arceus is a waste of space if you're going to just use it to stop palkia and the weather ubers. I used it once, and what basically happened was: I switch in arceus, they hit me good, they switch out while I try to do something to them. The process repeats one more time and by that time they can just attack again for the ko. Grass arceus is very overrated for this countering thing.
Again, having arceus just to counter dialga is pointless. You are losing great coverage if you use that, and that lead to bigger loopholes to the team. Deoxys-D is good, but a fire blast in sunlight to it does damage in the 40s% range. One burn is risky enough to deal with if that ever happens, not to mention that deoxys-d doesn't have a good role in ubers either.
These are all technically counters, but they are too specialized to be of major use elsewhere.
To provide a simple answer to the question would be that Shoddy is simply more focused on the OU metagame, and other metagames do not have as much attention directed towards them, for instance if one could ladder on all different metagames to boosts ones rating i'm 100% sure they would be a phenomonal increase in the amount of people that play Ubers as well as UU.
They aren't specialized. Grass Arceus can counter Groudon + Rayquaza as well as making a half-decent switch to Kyogre, and it's also just a strong tank with 330 speed, big defenses and a 180 power Grass Knot against many ubers. It's not "just" a counter, just like Latias doesn't "just" counter most Kyogre.
Deoxys-D is great for Stealth Rock/Spikes, which screw over Focus Sash and many flying ubers as well as being painful for tanks in general (hi Lugia). Since Deoxys-D has Recover, 40%ish is not really a concern barring a critical, and I'm not particularly worried about an 8.5% chance of burn (remember Fire Blast can miss).
Grass arceus can't do everything at once. If you're using it to counter a palkia, it won't be able to counter rayquaza. Also, this looks very good on paper only. I tried this in dozens of battles, and I found out the hard way that grass arceus is overrated. It is rare for a good reason. Latias is different from this in that it has an immunity to be a good weather uber threatener (I didn't say counter so don't jump on me for that). On top of that and its stacked stats, its stabed attacks are supereffective to at least half of the ubers. As for grass arceus, it has its supereffective moves, but none are stabed except for grass knot...but steels and ice tolerable dragons run everywhere. I forgot to add this in earlier, but pakia can ice beam too.
As for deoxys-d, It has a terrible typing to being with. Good uber battlers will see that a majority of ubers are dragons and psychics, so they will add in anti psychic parts that make deoxys-d not as effective. Also, doexys-d is actually a pretty good set up bait despite its anti set up bait movepools. I'd say that deoxys-d would be actually usable compared to grass arceus, but you're only adding another typical dark/bug/ghost weakness to your team just for a dialga.
I've always been interested in uber play and know what it is. It's using your whole team to your advantage. In uber play almost every single poke can destroy half of your team.