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NOC WikiMafia 2 Game Thread [Day 3]

liquidrelief said:
I  have learned from the last game that lynches are common and actually viable, but imo lynches made out of nowhere are perfect for maf
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Every now and then I play a mafia game and I read a post that makes me think "I don't know how this beautiful soul ended up playing mafia but the world is better for it"

"I have learned that lynches are common and actually viable" is going in my own personal hall of fame
 
What I've learned from isoing liquidrelief is that their understanding of the game is so fundamentally different from mine that I truly cannot put myself into their head. Me attempting to read them is a fool's errand. I do think on the basis of the evidence (ie voting/activity pattern) they are more likely scum than average, but I'm not as convinced as I normally would be.

I am going to seriously consider my read on saber now because admittedly I could actually see myself switching. Thankfully they have a lot more to read. Admittedly I find isoing to be very tedious and I'm not that good at it compared to other people, but idk it's something to do
 
Blizihguh said:
I'm not saying they're conftown but like I would be surprised if they were BOTH scum at least for the reasons I outlined. If you honestly think saber is scum at this point I would be curious why mafia were totally content to let the dueling wagons be two scum

Ftr none of what I said should mean to imply that I'm hard reading saber as town. Just think that's most likely rn. Ideally we could clear saber somehow.
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Sometimes town is just accurate, saber was scummy and mafia have to make a choice or just let people die not every team is going to try power wolf, bluedoom certainly wasn’t - maybe their wincon is a deep wolf

That being said sure if you think saber looks towny don’t vote him, but what we really should not be doing is pre flipping him town when he’s not been towny all game, and then assuming other people are mafia for voting someone who has not been towny the entire game, and also could still be mafia
 
Blizihguh said:
Is godfather considered bastard here and if so is it so bastard as to be outside of the realm of plausibility
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I already discussed this d1 with celever, he has explicitly posted that godfather/miller like roles exist in some form, though we already have a miller flip

I believe these type of roles existing is the main reason he has the game classified as kind of bastard
 
Blizihguh said:
DBD I really do not get where this was coming from D2 let alone now that bd is dead. You seem to be under the impression that a single mislynch D1 is really bad for town?? My only concern about us rn is that we lost our vigcop but in terms of kill math our trajectory is actually pretty good. Losing one good role early is pretty average although vigcop is kind of an insane role especially with energizer stuff going around to make it less delayed. That's pick your flavor for you though. Wouldn't be surprised if we had at least two more roles on a similar power level.

I would like to apply the new-to-me concept of WIM here!
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The vig cop was much weaker than chickening which I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s twins strongest role - they were every night watcher which is like up there in a similar realm to vig, just below alignment cop, but they actually were nightly so could give consistent info rather than having to land the same person 3x which realistically in mafia games, doesn’t really happen
 
Blizihguh posts well but the place the posts are coming from scares me

First he assumed saber is town, so is pushing the people on saber wagon

Then as soon as people are going “well we don’t know saber is town” he’s like “oh yes go ahead vote saber have fun”

There’s a world he’s tmied saber town after mafia bussed bluedoom and he’s just thing capitalise on voting the town on the other wagon I think…
 
a fairy said:
reads changes from my ordered list on page 59 (1458) gut instinct:
flandrs above bliz and dbd, the whole peum to airc section feels wrong but i dont know how to order it other than moving hyhy and especially peum up for hammering bd, i don't immediately buy that scumteam went to T-1 or hammered themselves to bus when we had plenty of time left in day. i dont think i have a ton of movement up at the top. maybe move phoopes and pulsar down, that ranking for just a theorysolve attempt seems high. tommy psy phoopes pulsar maybe?

as an aside: not a fan of 0 chickening wagon members flipping and the two flipped town being offwagon. what's the deal with that, ik its early but? is all of maf hiding on chickening? non-voters were shypebble liquidrelief blizihguh peum, trying to stay off heat? peum was the only one actually online and around at any point near dl, but the other 3 are like totally MIA. i know we had an afk problem at the time but like, yikes. but like that chickening wagon is totally unflipped and that seems so bonkers to me. nearly half of the game on chickening and none of them have flipped yet? im probably seeing shadows here
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Tbf the only town kill after, was mafia, but you are right there’s mafia on that wagon
 
Blizihguh said:
Absolutely fucking baffled that you guys want the cop to just die without sharing results
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I cannot understand this either, I get it if role cop but it’s frustrating to not know exactly what sort of cop it is now

If it’s role cop then yeah you’re just helping mafia learn roles

But tbh also certain roles from rolecop can just be mafia, it’s problematic that it’s a very nuanced situation over whether you claim or not
 
StupidFlandrs48 said:
Can we not go down the flavor rabbit hole please

Cold Case is a pretty LHF example, of course it makes sense for that to be a cop-style role. That does not translate to most of these articles
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I mean I’m going to say it

Role cop is more often mafia than town, she hasn’t even claimed role cop everyone is just assuming but if she’s every night role cop, she might be mafia or at least it’s not at all towny
 
I feel a bit better on bliz on catchup but tough to read in general seems like would pair well as either alignment

Honestly I think des should be a consideration, saber is a definite consideration

I see why on dbd but he seems similar to last game

Liquid I do still think it’s just slightly townier than null

I’m struggling to build a realistic mafia team rn which is not great

Oh wait what’s my guy phoopes doing hmmm, he could be a hit a later day he’s disappeared
 
Tommy said:
I mean I’m going to say it

Role cop is more often mafia than town, she hasn’t even claimed role cop everyone is just assuming but if she’s every night role cop, she might be mafia or at least it’s not at all towny
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This is true but I think in role madness and in a game where roles are ostensibly kinda divorced from alignment it's plausible on town

Honestly though you're right that Rolecop is in general a scummy role. I've kinda been scared off of making assumptions about role alignment in new groups bc I'm shellshocked from the time I was told Roleblocker was a totally normal town role and not especially scummy. But I think this group aligns with my vibe on most roles lol

Would probably be more willing to entertain a des lynch if it wasn't coming from Tommy but I think it's entirely possible that liquid and saber are scum and this is the best angle to save them (also eliminating an invest without needing to spend a night kill on it!)
 
Blizihguh said:
This is true but I think in role madness and in a game where roles are ostensibly kinda divorced from alignment it's plausible on town

Honestly though you're right that Rolecop is in general a scummy role. I've kinda been scared off of making assumptions about role alignment in new groups bc I'm shellshocked from the time I was told Roleblocker was a totally normal town role and not especially scummy. But I think this group aligns with my vibe on most roles lol

Would probably be more willing to entertain a des lynch if it wasn't coming from Tommy but I think it's entirely possible that liquid and saber are scum and this is the best angle to save them (also eliminating an invest without needing to spend a night kill on it!)
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This will sound sarcastic but it's not. In a 15v5 setup what's the point of having a mafia role cop? I'm probably missing something but idk
 
liquidrelief said:
Claim 2: I had my suspicions on blue since the game started from the wiki article (which is a valid strat psy) but I wanted to collect info since there's 5 mafia yk?
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it is absolutely not a valid strategy celever has already stated that
I will make roles based on the Wikipedia article you link first, with aims including but not limited to thematic accuracy or comedy. After I've made all the roles, I'll try to balance the alignments by assigning roles to certain factions. This means that roles will initially be designed in an alignment-agnostic way, i.e. roles should be able to exist on either faction with equal likelihood.
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from https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/wikimafia-2.3773164/
please please please drop this flavor hunting angle it is not real. celever is a smart enough host to properly rand the structure.
 
Blizihguh said:
This is true but I think in role madness and in a game where roles are ostensibly kinda divorced from alignment it's plausible on town

Honestly though you're right that Rolecop is in general a scummy role. I've kinda been scared off of making assumptions about role alignment in new groups bc I'm shellshocked from the time I was told Roleblocker was a totally normal town role and not especially scummy. But I think this group aligns with my vibe on most roles lol

Would probably be more willing to entertain a des lynch if it wasn't coming from Tommy but I think it's entirely possible that liquid and saber are scum and this is the best angle to save them (also eliminating an invest without needing to spend a night kill on it!)
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For sure it’s not damning but it’s certainly not towny
 
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