Bro YES, I was waiting for someone to say this
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Tournament Winter Team Tour Format Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Fc
- Start date
There are people like you who, just like me or any user from No Badge to SS, play the tiers they enjoy, and in some cases also dedicate their time to managing a community, promoting participation across multiple tiers, and encouraging communication between them, so we should be respectful to them. Saying that NDUB isn’t a real tier, whether that’s true or not, is out of place here.
Anyway I also agree with SVx2, four slot is too much.
12 slots
3x ndubers
3x uubers
3x lc ubers
3x cap ubers
i think everyone will be able to accept this compromise
3x ndubers
3x uubers
3x lc ubers
3x cap ubers
i think everyone will be able to accept this compromise
lc ubers is heat
Echoing keys post for if a world cup format is decided on. With 8 slots (2 SV + SS - ADV), 16 teams should be possible. I don’t think a bo3 SV slot is needed, but 2nd SV could be bo3 if for some reason the demand is there. Pools format seemed to work the first two times it was hosted, and it seems to be the overwhelming preference after the weeks variant two years ago. We have alternated back and forth between UWL/UWTT & UWC the past few years, so it might not be a bad thing to continue that; it gives different members of the community their preference each year. As much as I’m not a personal fan of the format, the intrinsic problems in a world cup tour can make for fun moments when there’s a huge upset, but there being “upsets” in the first place isn’t great. Realistically, some teams have a much lower chance of winning the tour, or even going to playoffs, than others, which can be a massive motivation killer. Not going to harp on this too much since other people already have, and they’ve made the point better than I can. I think fewer slots (and a better grouping methodology) would help slightly with that issue, but enough to make a real difference? Not sure.
4 superteams doesn’t seem like the definitive format though, if last year was any indication. The tour might run better with 6 larger than normal teams, but then you run into the issue of picking tiers to get 2 slots while others get left out. I'll jump in here to mention I don't think ND Ubers/Ubers UU is a good fit for the tour for a similar reason- we shouldn't be cutting a lower gen/current gen slot to add them. CL is an interesting format but can feel a little stale when a series often comes down to winning the fixed slots since both teams are expected to win their own picks, but it would probably be inoffensive as an option. The "expected" result isn't necessarily always true, but on average you would expect a team to win their own picks more often than not, which seems to be both to the format's benefit and detriment. Trying a snake draft similar to SSD for a non UWC format could be another way to differentiate the tour from UPL, which I think should be the goal. UWC is polarizing, but it’s a very different tour from UPL, which is a good thing. CL would also be good in this regard with the rotating slots. Having the second team tour being UPL lite is the only thing that really needs to be avoided imo.
My order of preference would be CL >= UWC > Boosting Tour = Snake, but I think most of the options brought up so far would be a good fit for the tour
4 superteams doesn’t seem like the definitive format though, if last year was any indication. The tour might run better with 6 larger than normal teams, but then you run into the issue of picking tiers to get 2 slots while others get left out. I'll jump in here to mention I don't think ND Ubers/Ubers UU is a good fit for the tour for a similar reason- we shouldn't be cutting a lower gen/current gen slot to add them. CL is an interesting format but can feel a little stale when a series often comes down to winning the fixed slots since both teams are expected to win their own picks, but it would probably be inoffensive as an option. The "expected" result isn't necessarily always true, but on average you would expect a team to win their own picks more often than not, which seems to be both to the format's benefit and detriment. Trying a snake draft similar to SSD for a non UWC format could be another way to differentiate the tour from UPL, which I think should be the goal. UWC is polarizing, but it’s a very different tour from UPL, which is a good thing. CL would also be good in this regard with the rotating slots. Having the second team tour being UPL lite is the only thing that really needs to be avoided imo.
My order of preference would be CL >= UWC > Boosting Tour = Snake, but I think most of the options brought up so far would be a good fit for the tour
I believe that one of the inherent reasons as to why a format can't be decided on is because we want to keep a very similar format to that of UPL when we could use this tournament to expand and include other iterations of Ubers or past metas that don't have the same availability as the gens normally included in UPL / UWL.
This tournament doesn't need to have a similar format to the biggest Ubers team tour of the year, because no matter how you see it, it will never be UPL. The stakes aren't as high as UPL because the reward of winning it isn't equally as high as that tour's (nor does it have the same hype). If we are so adamant as to have a second tour that has SV-ADV/GSC/RBY format, we might face the same dilemma that is in front of us right now the very next year.
From my point of view, part of the challenge comes from the attempts of trying to reinvent the winter tour wheel using the same pool of tiers. This carries the risk of eventually becoming stale regardless, not to mention that as new gens come out, this format will be unsustainable as tiers are probably going to have to be cut out anyways.
I don't see a fault in trying to include something like a CG NDex Ubers, UUbers or even AG slot if there's enough playerbase to warrant it. It would be a nice change of pace as well as a reason to maybe bring people over from those communities who aren't too involved in Ubers. It would also make a clear distinction between this tour and UPL.
Just my 2 cents.
This tournament doesn't need to have a similar format to the biggest Ubers team tour of the year, because no matter how you see it, it will never be UPL. The stakes aren't as high as UPL because the reward of winning it isn't equally as high as that tour's (nor does it have the same hype). If we are so adamant as to have a second tour that has SV-ADV/GSC/RBY format, we might face the same dilemma that is in front of us right now the very next year.
From my point of view, part of the challenge comes from the attempts of trying to reinvent the winter tour wheel using the same pool of tiers. This carries the risk of eventually becoming stale regardless, not to mention that as new gens come out, this format will be unsustainable as tiers are probably going to have to be cut out anyways.
I don't see a fault in trying to include something like a CG NDex Ubers, UUbers or even AG slot if there's enough playerbase to warrant it. It would be a nice change of pace as well as a reason to maybe bring people over from those communities who aren't too involved in Ubers. It would also make a clear distinction between this tour and UPL.
Just my 2 cents.
y'all have put my name in the dirt when i told everyone all the time don't do fuckign "sparksblade format" im owed some damages from this disaster
world cup is ass but jerkpl as a suggestion deserves applause you really don't care about the tour if you can propose that with a straight face
the fifa world cup pools format is also ass - they do that shit so that the popular favorites have a good chance of qualifying for views and monies and sponsors you're getting none of that so why do your top seed favorites need their hands held. if you say it's to incentivize people not giving up for next year's seeds then that's foolish - your top seeds for next year will be teams that at least qualify from pools this year, and from there they are obviously already tryharding to win so the "next year seeding" has absolutely no motivation in it
saying "whatever this tour is, it'll never be upl" is like saying fa cup will never be champions league so let's make it futsal instead. in fact i'd be hesitant of adding the fringe formats because world cup scouting is already a pain wdym i need to find ag and uubers players i just spent a week trying convincing someone to start rby. if you want to experiment then drop the non-preview gens to ease that pressure on captains at least.
pools format is ass cos you have to drop teams merge teams do hostage negotiations with captains just to get teams in multiples of 4 at least but i guess that's what people want so just keep it random and good luck to hosts and mods.
world cup is ass but jerkpl as a suggestion deserves applause you really don't care about the tour if you can propose that with a straight face
the fifa world cup pools format is also ass - they do that shit so that the popular favorites have a good chance of qualifying for views and monies and sponsors you're getting none of that so why do your top seed favorites need their hands held. if you say it's to incentivize people not giving up for next year's seeds then that's foolish - your top seeds for next year will be teams that at least qualify from pools this year, and from there they are obviously already tryharding to win so the "next year seeding" has absolutely no motivation in it
saying "whatever this tour is, it'll never be upl" is like saying fa cup will never be champions league so let's make it futsal instead. in fact i'd be hesitant of adding the fringe formats because world cup scouting is already a pain wdym i need to find ag and uubers players i just spent a week trying convincing someone to start rby. if you want to experiment then drop the non-preview gens to ease that pressure on captains at least.
pools format is ass cos you have to drop teams merge teams do hostage negotiations with captains just to get teams in multiples of 4 at least but i guess that's what people want so just keep it random and good luck to hosts and mods.
Ok, hear me out. Agreeing with sparks if we ever do that jerkpl shit again im throwing molotov cocktails at people.
WCup sucks but w/e I'd be fine w it picked, but instead Imma pitch for a full tour of flex/gimmick formats. We fully embrace this being a more fun/casual TT experience
Full 4 SV, what gimmicks we put in is up for debate. I would like a forms clause slot personally, a slot without korai and a slot without webs
Dynamax List SS Ubers
SM Ubers + idfk summ? Mega ray is a cheap easy answer but like.. boring
ORAS Ubers + Xerneas ban
BW UBERS + Heavy Duty Boots (Or Dream World if people want shadow tag chandy wars.)
Farceus
Fullceus
WCup sucks but w/e I'd be fine w it picked, but instead Imma pitch for a full tour of flex/gimmick formats. We fully embrace this being a more fun/casual TT experience
Full 4 SV, what gimmicks we put in is up for debate. I would like a forms clause slot personally, a slot without korai and a slot without webs
Dynamax List SS Ubers
SM Ubers + idfk summ? Mega ray is a cheap easy answer but like.. boring
ORAS Ubers + Xerneas ban
BW UBERS + Heavy Duty Boots (Or Dream World if people want shadow tag chandy wars.)
Farceus
Fullceus
i only name the tours i like:
world cup allows for more newer players to play the tier and imo that is the most important prospect for this tournament after all this is not upl it doesnt have to be the most serious tournament oat but world cup always has the most signups and bring the most number of new players to the tier of ubers as well as providing more chances for players that may get overlooked in upl or well upl2electricboogaloo (winter special) to play for their nation and get tournament experience in ubers which i think is a positive from the last format of winter league aswell tbh even tho i think that format was not very good at all
the united nations cup with ag, ndub and uubers sound mad lit aswell icl although ofcourse i dont know how others feel about that tournament and how it will play out in terms of slots etc either but it sounds like a fun idea to incorporate players from other communities whose tiers are similar to ubers into the tiers again an option that goes to increase the overall playerbase of the tier and hence i think even tho it sounds kinda funny/weird is something i will support
ubers cl is another option mentioned and i do think its cool but then again it doesnt really strike me as a tournament that would excite the common man into playing ubers. it has its positives ofcourse especially for some oldgen players like my bro Rhmsitb and The Dovahneer who even tho want to play other tiers are stuck to the tier they are the best at. The CL formula allows for players that can play multiple tiers to flex into them more freely ofcourse aswell as giving chances to relative underdogs/ newbies of said oldgen ubers to have a swing at things but then again my problem with cl is that its not as inticing to the common man as the other 2 options and the format sadly does not allow for the coveted adv main jerk team as you can only pick a tier once.
as for formats i like the 5-9 suggestion dont kill me sv slots doesnt matter i think 4 is too much and 2 is too little give me 3 altho idc 2 is ok aswell
world cup allows for more newer players to play the tier and imo that is the most important prospect for this tournament after all this is not upl it doesnt have to be the most serious tournament oat but world cup always has the most signups and bring the most number of new players to the tier of ubers as well as providing more chances for players that may get overlooked in upl or well upl2electricboogaloo (winter special) to play for their nation and get tournament experience in ubers which i think is a positive from the last format of winter league aswell tbh even tho i think that format was not very good at all
the united nations cup with ag, ndub and uubers sound mad lit aswell icl although ofcourse i dont know how others feel about that tournament and how it will play out in terms of slots etc either but it sounds like a fun idea to incorporate players from other communities whose tiers are similar to ubers into the tiers again an option that goes to increase the overall playerbase of the tier and hence i think even tho it sounds kinda funny/weird is something i will support
ubers cl is another option mentioned and i do think its cool but then again it doesnt really strike me as a tournament that would excite the common man into playing ubers. it has its positives ofcourse especially for some oldgen players like my bro Rhmsitb and The Dovahneer who even tho want to play other tiers are stuck to the tier they are the best at. The CL formula allows for players that can play multiple tiers to flex into them more freely ofcourse aswell as giving chances to relative underdogs/ newbies of said oldgen ubers to have a swing at things but then again my problem with cl is that its not as inticing to the common man as the other 2 options and the format sadly does not allow for the coveted adv main jerk team as you can only pick a tier once.
as for formats i like the 5-9 suggestion dont kill me sv slots doesnt matter i think 4 is too much and 2 is too little give me 3 altho idc 2 is ok aswell
The argument that UWC is good for newer players only works under the assumption that every team has strong multi-generation players willing to help out teammates while having enough roster space to actually give these relatively unproven players starting positions. The chances of a new player being given any starting time is drastically reduced in a pools format, where managers aren't likely to sub someone out and let an 0-2 player finish off their pool. Being on a broken team where you just flat out won't get any starting time, but its far from the only less than ideal outcome. Want to SV but your team just coincidentally has the best SV core? Want to play a specific low tier but your region just has one of the tiers best players who won't be benched unless they go super negative? Your team just isn't very good while everyone is checked out half way through and you're not getting the support you need?
I am by no means calling World Cup a bad format or a format without merits, but it is in no means the best way to get newer players to play the tier in an environment conducive to them sticking around. A flex slot format where each team has strong multi generation players plus managers who (usually) care and can help out, a format that encourages constantly rotating people in and out of the starting roster, and a budget large enough to afford taking risks on less proven talent.
I am by no means calling World Cup a bad format or a format without merits, but it is in no means the best way to get newer players to play the tier in an environment conducive to them sticking around. A flex slot format where each team has strong multi generation players plus managers who (usually) care and can help out, a format that encourages constantly rotating people in and out of the starting roster, and a budget large enough to afford taking risks on less proven talent.