Winter, Water, and Sun? Oh my!

[Different]

THE MOST CREATIVE SUN TEAM OF ALL TIME.


I just came back to competitive pokemon a few weeks ago. I dabbled in DPP OU games as a casual player who didn't know much at all. Victory's were few and far between, so i moved on to other games. But times change, and here i am starting fresh.

In my effort to catch up with everyone else, i looked around old RMT threads in an attempt to draw from someone else's creativity. After looking through all the hilarious . I experianced some success with it on PO, but now it feels like an uphill battle against most teams. Hopefully you guys can help me out here.

Ignition @ Chesto Berry
Calm
Drought
252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 SpAtk

Sunny Day
Protect
Flamethrower
Rest

In my original setup, i used Leftovers and Roar instead of ChestoRest. I was looking over a few other RMT's, one of which had a recommendation of ChestoRest to help with longevity. I found it worked much better than the Leftovers/Phasing, so i stuck with it for now.

Ninetails is here for the perma-sun, so Sunny Day seems like a strange move. My though process was what happens when you run into other weather inducers, and they get the perma-weather up after you? 5 Turns isn't much, but Ninetails can always jump in later.

Protect is there for scouting, eating big attacks (Outrage from CB Haxorus, for example), and general usefulness.

Flamethrower lets Ninetails at least do some damage, and prevents it from being Taunt bait.

The EV spread isn't exactly original. More HP lets Ninetails soak larger hits, while the SpDef helps deal with the special side of things. SpAtk for BIG FLAMETHROWERS

Volkanic @ Choice Band
Adamant
Victory Star
252 Attack, 252 speed, 4 HP

V-Create
U-Turn
Fusion Bolt
Zen Headbutt

Ahh, the little devil himself. A CB V-Create just does too much damage for most Pokes to handle, leaving most dead after just 1 shot.

U-Turn is useful for scouting, and hitting Psychic/Dark types for reasonable damage

Fusion Bolt takes care of pesky water types who come in thinking a V-Create was coming. It does relativly solid damage against most other Pokes, and without the drawbacks from V-Create

Zen Headbutt rounds out the coverage. I was having trouble with the likes of Conc waltzing in, feeling near untouchable to the rest of my team

Yet another deathly original EV spread. Atk for damage, speed to make me run fast, and 4 massive EV's in HP to help me take hits like a Blissey

Cerebus @ Life Orb
Modest
Chlorophyll
252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 4 HP

Giga Drain
Sludge Bomb
Hidden Power Fire
Growth


My love for Venusaur is matched only by Charizard (RIP Buddy), i was very glad to see him become viable in OU. Chlorophyll makes this old guy run like the wind. Growth helps boost him up to dangerous levels, and Giga Drain's self sufficiency helps the blue Barney fight off Life Orb Damage

Sludge Bomb is a secondary STAB move, hitting most things that resist Giga Drain for at least neutral damage

HP Fire rounds off the trio of attacks. Combined, they hit anything not named Heatran or Chandelure

This shockingly original EV spread lets me hit things fast and hard, while boosting my HP to insane levels.

Thrasher @ Life Orb
Adamant
Chlorophyll
248 Atk, 232 Speed, 28 HP

Horn Leech
Double Edge
Swords Dance
Nature Power

I pulled this set from another sun RMT looking to test out a solid physical attacker, and i am in love with the spring buck. Running at the speed of light, STAB Double Edge and Horn Leech, Pseudo-EQ, all rounded off by swords dance? Sign me up!

Horn Leech is my go-to move. It's does decent damage, with healing to help offset Life Orb Recoil, and recoil from Double Edge

Double Edge works well on anything that resists Horn Leech, it's only downside being the recoil damage. But after STAB, even an unboosted double edge sends people running.

Swords Dance helps boost my attack even higher, given the chance to set up. If i do get the dance off, this guy will punch holes in teams fast.

I had never heard of Nature Power till i found this moveset. An EQ for non-EQ users? I thought i was dreaming, or looking at an outdated move from BW release.

I used the EV spread to help outspeed a max speed Venusaur, something i started running into more and more while i worked out the teams kinks. I gave up maxing out Atk to help boost this guys frail defenses, letting him take an attack or two without falling apart.

Clugor @ Leftovers
Impish
Sturdy
80 HP, 252 Def, 176 SpDef

Spikes
Toxic Spikes
Stealth Rock
Rapid Spin

Not much to say about this guy. Tanks physical hits, sets up entry hazards and spins mine away. I really need a Rapid Spinner to help get rid of the glaring SR/Spikes weaknesses, but i debated swapping Toxic Spikes for Gyro Ball. The little ball of steel just seems to do his job and die before he could get out any real damage.

The i made the EV spread using a tool to calculate the best mixed defense EV's i could use. I ended up dumping more EV's into SpDef than HP to help me take a special hit, it seems to be working out so far.

Merely @ Leftovers
Calm
Water Absorb
248 HP, 176 Defense, 84 SpDef

Substitute
Baton Pass
Wish
Ice Beam

Ah, the ever useful gentle giant. Gigantic wishes, massive substitutes, and useful coverage with Ice Beam.

With Substitue, i can buy Venusaur or Sawsbuk a turn to set up, or pass them a giant wish that could heal for a solid 2/3rds of their HP. Ice Beam fills a rather large hole for me, helping to take care of Dragons. I'm not using a water move for 2 main reasons, the sun and coverage. Ice Beam helps me take care of a big threat to my team (Most dragons), and water is pitiful under the sun,

The EV spread is a slightly modified one from Smogen. The HP is there for larger wishes/subs, while Def and SpDef help this monster roll with the punches.


Well that's the team in it's current state.

My Current Problems

I have problems with Dragons. Once Fortress goes down, i can nearly play out the rest of the game in my head.

I also have big issues with a ground weakness, hitting 4/6 for SE damage.

At one point in time, i swapped out Victini for a bulky Dragonite. He both helped with my ground problems by flying, but he felt like a band-aid solution to my dragon issue. He could dish out the damage, but he took some serious hits in return.




Well, im going to stop rambling on as it gets later at night and i slowly lose sense of what I'm typing. Feel free to rip the team to shreds, the drawing board is completely open.

​

 

[Jimbon]

Hi there!

Nice Sun team you have here, Forretress and Ninetales supporting your Chlorophyll sweepers with hazards and Sun support, in attempts of a sweep. Being a Sun Team and all, your main priority is keeping your weather around for as long as possible. Opposing Sand Teams seem a little annoying for you to face. Tyranitar can easily take on Ninetales, Victini and it forces Sawsbuck to attack in fear of taking an Ice Beam / Fire Blast. Your Forretress cannot do a whole lot to it, while Vaporeon gives Tyranitar a free opportunity to set up Stealth Rock, forcing your Forretress to repeatedly switch in to spin away Stealth Rock. To help with this problem, I recommend you try out Brick Break > Zen Headbutt on Victini. Brick Break allows you to easily dispatch of Tyranitar, given that your Sawsbuck is not running Jump Kick. Removing Tyranitar easily essentially wins you the weather war, boosting the speed of your Chlorophyll sweepers and putting them in a great position to sweep, as most Sand Teams do not carry something to outspeed your Chlorophyll abusers. By dropping Zen Headbutt, you do not really lose anything. You might be able to hit Toxicroak and Conkeldurr, but a STAB V-Create hits both harder anyway.

I also noticed your Ninetales set, and I think I could help you to deal with some of the threats you mentioned. Protect on your set does seem a little redundant. Given that Ninetales does not really hurt a lot offensively, Protect makes Ninetales even more obvious set up fodder. Common threats such as Terrakion, Haxorus, Dragonite, Salamence and many more easily switch in on Ninetales, forcing you to switch out as you cannot do anything to them. It puts a lot of pressure on your Forretress / Vaporeon to deal with the aforementioned threats, both of which are shaky at best as the only reliable recovery going throughout your team is Vaporeon's Wish, which you really need a free switch to get something in safely to take the wish. To help with this, I would recommend that you try out either Roar or Will-O-Wisp over Protect on Ninetales. By losing Protect, the only thing you really lose is the ability to scout common choice Pokemon such as Rotom, Scizor and Landorus, all of which are checked by Forretress / Vaporeon. If you choose Roar, you gain the ability to phase out the many physical attackers that find easy switch ins on Ninetales, in conjunction with Forretress's hazards, you can quickly rack up big damage on considerably more frail offensive threats. If you choose Will-O-Wisp, you get the option to cripple said physical attackers, making it easier to pass Wishes with Vaporeon and stack hazards with Forretress.

Finally, it does look like you have some problem with Dragons. Dragonite and Latios in particular look very threatening for your team. Dragonite easily finds switch ins against Forretress, choice locked Victini and Ninetales, while Venusaur fails to OHKO with any of it's moves, and requires a Growth to do so. Bulky Dragon Dance sets look even more annoying, as it can outstall Vaporeon with Roost, while taking even less from your attackers. Latios on the other hand has no problem spamming Draco Meteors against your team. Your only resist in Forretress does not sport the greatest special defense, so you cannot keep switching in Forretress to deal with it. Choice Scarf Latios is probably the biggest threat to your team. Your only option to outspeed it is Sawsbuck, as Modest Venusaur narrowly fails to outspeed. To help with this, I would recommend you try running a different set on your current Venusaur. If you try a Timid Nature and an EV spread of 76 HP / 252 SAtk / 180 Spe, you can outspeed Scarf Latios if Sun is active. You may also choose to try Hidden Power [Ice] over Hidden Power [Fire] on Venusaur. Honestly, it really doesn't look like you have the biggest problems with Ferrothorn / Forretress / Scizor. Being a Sun team, you will naturally have ways to deal with these, Victini and Ninetales with their Sun boosted Fire STABs can easily dispose of these, clearing the way for Venusaur to sweep. Hidden Power Ice allows you to deal with Latios and Dragonite, hitting them a lot harder than Sludge Bomb. Although you lose some power with a Timid Nature, you gain that back with Venusaur carrying Growth and Life Orb. There is really nothing notable you miss the OHKO / 2HKO on with Timid, while you still retain some extra bulk with the HP investment.

Cool team, hope I helped!

 

[Nova]

Hi Different

Welcome to Smogon and interesting Sun team you have here. It's nice to see underrated Pokemon such as Sawsbuck being used in OU. The use of two Chlorophyll sweepers can easily overwhelm the opposition, especially non-weather teams. I do have suggestions I'd like to provide to try and improve your team. As you stated, a major threat to your team are Dragon types. The only Dragon resist you carry is Forretress who can't do anything back and will fall after taking repeated attacks. Another threat to your team is the new therian formes, namely Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T. If your opponent wins the weather war and sets up rain, these genies can outspeed your entire team and dent it hard, the former with STAB Hurricanes and the latter with its excellent coverage and massive Special Attack stat. For these threats, I recommend replacing Forretress with a standard Defensive Donphan with a moveset of Stealth Rock / Rapid Spin / Earthquake / Ice Shard. Donphan has access to Ice Shard, giving him a priority attack to hit Dragon types and the new therians for super effective damage. Donphan continues to provide you with rapid spin support which is almost a necessity for a sun team and can also set up Stealth Rock which is a crucial move to check the likes of Dragonite, Thundurus-T, and Volcarona who are some of the top threats in OU. Donphan also makes a great check to common Sand teams threats such as Tyranitar, Terrakion, and Landorus with his great physical bulk. I recommend using an EV spread of 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def with an Impish nature. The attack investment makes for a stronger Earthquake as well as getting the 2HKO on Landorus with Ice Shard without sacrificing much bulk.

Now for some other changes. On Sawsbuck, I suggest replacing Nature Power with Jump Kick. Both these attacks provide very similar coverage but Jump Kick also allows you to hit Air Balloon Heatran and Ferrothorn for super effective damage as well as Skarmory for neutral, common defensive threats who could otherwise end a sweep. On Victini, place the 4 HP EVs into Special Defense. Making this adjustment maximizes the number of times Victini can switch into Stealth Rock. With no HP EVs, Victini has an HP stat of 341 and because this is an odd number, she is able to survive 4 SR damages. However, with 4 HP EVs, Victini has HP number of 342 and because this is an even number, she can only survive 3 SR damages. This change means Victini will sometimes be able to switch in and fire off one more deadly V-Create than it would have otherwise. Placing the EVs into Special Defense means that Victini's Defense stat will be lower than it's Special Defense stat. This is beneficial so that Download users, the majority of which are Special Attackers, will receive a useless Attack boost. The 4 HP EVs on Venusaur should also be placed in Special Defense to maximize his number of switch ins into Stealth Rock.

Hope I helped and good luck with your team!


Set:

Hide

Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
-Stealth Rock
-Rapid Spin
-Earthquake
-Ice Shard

tl;dr

Hide

Forretress ----> Standard Defensive Donphan
Nature Power on Sawsbuck ----> Jump Kick
4 HP EVs on Victini and Venusaur ----> 4 Special Defense EVs

 

[Jirachee]

Hi

This is a nice Sun teams, however it has really big problems with some common attackers. Any version of Latios completely destroy this team. Choice Specs seems to be the most threatning since it can 2HKO everything on this team with Draco Meteor, and it has plenty of amazing switch ins, especially your Ninetales, which is going to be out often since it's your weather starter. Calm Mind Latias is also very problematic for this team as your Ninetales lacks Toxic which makes it the ideal set up bait, and it's not like your only Dragon resist, Forretress, could stop it from getting to +6 and then beat it. Another thing that could really threaten this team is Bulky Quiver Dance Volcarona. Ninetales can't really stop those with Morning Sun as it lacks Toxic and just becomes set up bait as it sets up fairly easily, while Forretress is also extremely easy to set up on due to its lack of attacking move, or anything not related to Hazards. Sawsbuck can't OHKO the bulkier ones with Double Edge and it will just OHKO it right after with whatever move it uses. I think that your team would greatly benefit of dropping Sawsbuck for a Specially Defensive Heatran. Heatran can take on most Dragons with its formidable bulk and Dragon resistance while also giving you a wonderful check to most Volcarona. Heatran usually fits Sun teams very well because they tend to have problems with Dragon and Fire types, both of which are manageable for Heatran. I don't think you really need a second Chlorophyll abuser since you have Venusaur, and Heatran will just help you so much.

Your Forretress set could definetly use improvement. If you use Heatran, you won't need to use Stealth Rock on Forretress, as Heatran is a perfectly fine setter of it. It's probably even better considering it threatens really much more stuff than Forretress does. Instead, you could use Volt Switch. Volt Switch is an amazing move for Forretress because it allows it to escape Magnezone, and simply keep the offensive momentum in the favor of your team, something that Forretress tends to kill with its lack of offensive power. I also think you could go fully physically defensive if you use Heatran as it allows Forretress to wall stuff better, especially Dragon types. Speaking of which, if you're not satisfied with only Heatran to deal with Dragons, you could definetly use Hidden Power Ice over Toxic Spikes on Forretress. While it may look weird to use Special Attacks on Forretress, they are actually fairly helpful, as they allow it to beat x4 Ice Weak Dragons locked into Outrage, such as Salamence. Toxic Spikes is nice but it's actually the less helpful for your team considering it's kind of offensive.

Cool team, here's the set you should use:

Heatran

Heatran @ Leftovers
Flash Fire
Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
-Lava Plume
-Stealth Rock
-Roar
-Dragon Pulse

Good luck!

 

[Different]

Wow, thanks for all the help! I wasn't expecting that at all. When i get a chance to edit the OP with some changes, I'll give some of everyone's suggestions a shot