SS OU Wish Upon the Stars, Except Not Really

[Andrew Loh]

Greetings and Introduction as a whole:
Hello internet users, this is Andrew. I go with the username "Andrew Loh" and "Team Rocket Ace" on Pokemon Showdown since early 2014 but I rarely engaged in room conversations, until late 2017 where I discover chatroom is a thing(and how fun it is LOL). I mainly plays OU tier just cause it has more battle going on if compared to other tiers. This is my first RMT on Smogon site and and I am very excited to share this team I used with you all. Well then, introducing the team:

Team Paste:

Importable

Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 192 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled

Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off

Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 220 HP / 80 Def / 64 SpD / 144 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head

Aegislash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Steel Beam
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 248 HP / 52 Def / 208 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Amnesia
- Earth Power
- Recover
- Toxic

Mantine @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Defog
- Scald
- Roost

Team Overview:
I consider this as a Bulky-Offense team that baiting people thinking Clefable as the support WishPass set. Conkeldurr+Aegislash serves as a powerful breaker core alongside with this "support" Clefable. Together with a bulky Excadrill as fairy check, mixed defensive Gastrodon and SpDef mantine as defogger.

Set in-Details:

Spoilers

Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 192 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled

This Pixie mon is the main catalyst that makes this team a reality. In fact, it is the main star of this team. This isn't your regular Wish-Pass nor Calm Mind set, it is the mixture of both. I would like to thank my fellow pal Proftreez for introducing me this Clefable set. Generally speaking, this Clefable set grands the ability to check both sides of offense (Atk and SpAtk) moderately while dishing out a psuedo-Life Orbed damage to opponent. Magic Guard works well with Life Orb without saying, with Moonblast as the main moves for pesky Dragon/Fighting mons while Flamethrower for Steel types(mostly), especially Corviknight/Ferrothorn that expects this as a WishPass Clefable.
As for the difference of this set from WishPass Clef from the offensive side speaking, Modest nature allow it to one-hit Dragapult/Terrakion/Obstagoon from full using raw Moonblast, two-hit Corviknight with a +1 SpAtk using Flamethrower. Defensively speaking if compared to Life Orbed Clefable, it lives one Guts Facade from Conkeldurr/Obstagoon, lives a +2 flash cannon from Kommo-o, and Specs Shadow Ball Dragapult OR Gyro Ball Ferrothorn is a 3HKO unless critical hit/SpDef drop.

Relevant Calculations:
252+ Atk Excadrill Iron Head vs. 192 HP / 156 Def Clefable: 318-374 (83.9 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 192 HP / 156 Def Clefable: 283-334 (74.6 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 192 HP / 156 Def Clefable: 313-369 (82.5 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 248-294 (78.2 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 351-416 (110.7 - 131.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
lives 2 specs draga sball
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 192 HP / 100 SpD Clefable: 160-189 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Kommo-o Flash Cannon vs. 192 HP / 100 SpD Clefable: 312-368 (82.3 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (56 BP) vs. 192 HP / 156 Def Clefable: 122-146 (32.1 - 38.5%) -- 98% chance to 3HKO


Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off

When I look at that Clefable, honestly I have no idea how to make it work, so with that in mind, Conkeldurr was added to the team and oh Jigglypuff, it worked so well. Fast Dark/Steel Types are problems for Clefable, namely Bisharp/Life Orbed Hydreigon/Crawdaunt/Excadrill hence Mr. Mach Punch saves the day for it. Conkeldurr is the standard breaker set, with a little bit of HP investment so I can lives a Hex from Dragapult LOL. Jokes aside, it would've been better to max out the speed investment instead but I have accustomed to this spread so just change it to max speed if you feel uncomfortable by that spread.
A little bit about the set, I chose Earthquake+Knock off over Facade+Earthquake/Knock off because of, well, Toxapex, Clefable and any Ghost type being a Cancer Trio by stopping my Facade from doing any sort of damage. So instead a 50/50 chance GOAT play, I just pick the mid-ground Earthquake.

Relevant Calculation:
252+ SpA Spell Tag Dragapult Hex (130 BP) vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 331-390 (91.9 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after burn damage


Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 220 HP / 80 Def / 64 SpD / 144 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head

Next up, we have Excadrill as our cute little fire bait+fairy check. This bulky Excadrill set has one simple role, that is luring fire type moves and destroy them, either by Iron Head or Earthquake. The HP ev hits the maximum recovery value for optimization, the speed if +1 outspeeds Dugtrio and +1 Kommo-o, those defensive evs are better to be understood by looking at the calculations below. Other than that, Excadrill functions as a mid-to-late game sweeper by setting up in front of choiced Rotom or non-Body Press Corviknight. Sword Dance+Rapid Spin boost its stats while removing hazard at the same time, and Earthquake+Iron Head as main 2 STAB moves, hitting Levitate stuffs such as Rotoms and Hydreigon. Non-Life Orb Zeraora fails to ohko it from full and Guts Conkeldurr mach punch is not enough to one-hit it even after rocks damage, it can even lives a Dugtrio Earthquake. Notable victims are displayed under the calculations below.

Relevant Calculations:
252+ SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 220 HP / 64 SpD Excadrill: 242-286 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flamethrower vs. 220 HP / 64 SpD Excadrill: 354-419 (85 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 220 HP / 64 SpD Excadrill: 181-214 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Flamethrower vs. 220 HP / 64 SpD Excadrill: 294-346 (70.6 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Fire Blast vs. 220 HP / 64 SpD Excadrill: 388-458 (93.2 - 110%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 220 HP / 80 Def Excadrill: 306-362 (73.5 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 220 HP / 80 Def Excadrill: 348-410 (83.6 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 220 HP / 80 Def Excadrill: 366-432 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Pelipper Scald vs. 220 HP / 64 SpD Excadrill in Rain: 320-380 (76.9 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Terrakion Earthquake vs. 220 HP / 80 Def Excadrill: 320-378 (76.9 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (just for fun)


Aegislash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Steel Beam
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak

Clefable and Corviknight are too common as I ladder around mid ladder ~1600ish so it is always better to bring more than one answer to those mons, so here comes Specs Aegislash. Not much to say, it is a SpAtk variant of Conkeldurr in my opinion, an instant hard-hitter that break mons. Flash Cannon+Shadow Ball tears opposing team apart if played right, Steel Beam for a big firework splash on boosted Clefable/Sylveon while Shadow Sneak for fast speed frail mon or revenge kill low HP mons. The bulk may comes in handy so I prefer to sacrifice a bit of power(Shadow Sneak) in choosing Modest so I could take damage better in general. Max speed is needed to hit mons creeping around ~200 such as Sylveon, Kommo-o and Mandibuzz(hope this doesn't run speed).


Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 248 HP / 52 Def / 208 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Amnesia
- Earth Power
- Recover
- Toxic

Everyone hates Dracovish, and so do I, hence I have to get one of these water-immunity mons. I go with Gastrodon>Seismitoad because honestly, I prefer a better offensive check that has a reliable recovery rather than Stealth Rocks+Scald/Knock Off utility. Besides that, Gastrodon takes much lesser damage from Grass Knot Zeraora thanks to that light weight it have, compared to Seismitoad. Amnesia let it stalls out metronome Mantine, Toxic for floating mons that Earth Power can't hit such as Rotoms and Mandibuzz.

Relevant Calculations:
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Dracovish Psychic Fangs vs. 248 HP / 52 Def Gastrodon: 151-178 (35.5 - 41.8%) -- 86.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 52 Def Gastrodon: 115-136 (27 - 32%) -- 49.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Cinderace U-turn vs. 248 HP / 52 Def Gastrodon: 90-107 (21.1 - 25.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 208+ SpD Gastrodon: 139-165 (32.7 - 38.8%) -- 5.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Zeraora Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 248 HP / 208+ SpD Gastrodon: 198-234 (46.5 - 55%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Mantine @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Defog
- Scald
- Roost

Have I told you that I hate Dracovish? Oh well, as you can already tell, this is my defogger on this team, and act as my second Dracovish check(I'm serious). Aside from that, this mon can deal with non-Rock Slide Excadrill and water spam mons such as Primarina/Keldeo/Ludicolo/Seismitoad(SpAtk) pretty well. Heavy-Duty Boots allow it to comes into rocks more often and defog, or choose to fish for the scald burn since this team isn't weak to rocks anyway.

Relevant Calculations:
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Mantine: 138-162 (36.9 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 144-169 (38.6 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 78-94 (20.9 - 25.2%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO

Notable Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1074568330
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1074994693
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1074995685
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1074998623

Threat List:
Corviknight, Togekiss, Gyarados, Hawlucha, Terrakion, Zeraora, Kyurem, Sun team

Credits and Thanks:
Proftreez - for providing help in Clefable+Excadrill ev (to be honest I already forget what are the evs are for initially, so I just explain from what I experienced from ladder LOL)

 

[kawaiioneechan]

At a glance Zeraora can pose quite the threat to your team. Stealth rocks or a bit of chip turns the 2HKO on gastrodon into a coin flip.

Calc

4 SpA Life Orb Zeraora Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Gastrodon: 198-234 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Scarf darmanitan, though rare, outspeeds your whole team, 2HKOs mantine and conk only does 52-61% with mach punch.

Calc

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan: 183-216 (52.1 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan: 84-99 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- 91.8% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mantine: 179-211 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mantine: 302-356 (80.7 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 52 Def Gastrodon: 171-202 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Gastrodon and mantine pretty much do the same thing so a bit of role compression here and a scarfer or duggy could solve your speed issue. If you decide to keep gastro I'd change amnesia to scald, otherwise corvi sets up on it and is not really threatened by anything on the team after a bulk up or 2 except maybe aegi who can be pp stalled out of shadow balls.

Calc

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Corviknight: 190-225 (47.5 - 56.2%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Other than that maybe max out the speed evs on conk to speed tie with other conks, mantine and seismitoad.

 

[Andrew Loh]

At a glance Zeraora can pose quite the threat to your team. Stealth rocks or a bit of chip turns the 2HKO on gastrodon into a coin flip.

Calc

4 SpA Life Orb Zeraora Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Gastrodon: 198-234 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Scarf darmanitan, though rare, outspeeds your whole team, 2HKOs mantine and conk only does 52-61% with mach punch.

Calc

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan: 183-216 (52.1 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan: 84-99 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- 91.8% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mantine: 179-211 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mantine: 302-356 (80.7 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 52 Def Gastrodon: 171-202 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Gastrodon and mantine pretty much do the same thing so a bit of role compression here and a scarfer or duggy could solve your speed issue. If you decide to keep gastro I'd change amnesia to scald, otherwise corvi sets up on it and is not really threatened by anything on the team after a bulk up or 2 except maybe aegi who can be pp stalled out of shadow balls.

Calc

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Corviknight: 190-225 (47.5 - 56.2%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Other than that maybe max out the speed evs on conk to speed tie with other conks, mantine and seismitoad.

First of all, thank you for the fast response to this RMT. Regarding the Zeraora vs Gastrodon I will link a discussion that happens recently under this post, and for my personal opinion I think Gastrodon will not always be my direct switch-in into Zeraora. If you look at my team structure, you can see that except Mantine, everyone else on the team can take on Zeraora rather than switching out, so the 2hko Grass Knot rarely occur, as it requires Life Orb for doing so, as well as taking damage from my mons/Recover spam along the way, BUT I will still put Zeraora under the threat list.

I would require more persuasive element on the speed issue as I do not think I need a scarfer over Gastrodon, currently. The move Amnesia does have the uses if you checked the "Set in-Details" where I explained it. Furthermore, I do not think Scald can solve the issue of Bulk Up Corviknight simple because of:
1. Gastrodon still cannot beat Bulk Up Corviknight even if you burned it either because Pressure pp stall or cannot break sub Corviknight
0 SpA Gastrodon Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 66-78 (16.5 - 19.5%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
2. Fishing 30% burn happening is not fun if it failed to do so
+1 0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 52 Def Gastrodon: 220-259 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Don't get me wrong, Close Combat Conkeldurr, Flamethrower Clefable and Specs Aegislash are there as countermeasure so it is not that bad as it would look like.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ead-see-post-321.3658351/page-15#post-8385082

 

[Proftreez]

Clef evs were so you dont get trapped by adamant sash duggy

 

[Sieeeffmon]

This looks like a fun team. I can see bulky drill catching a lot things off guard. I would agree that the zeraora match-up is not that bad, especially with drill taking a hit. I agree that bulk up corv is a problem since it sets up on half the team and is only barely if even managed by the rest. Another thing that wasn't mentioned is Kyurem. The more offensive clef opens you up to be 2hkoed by specs ice beam.

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 192 HP / 100+ SpD Clefable: 196-232 (51.7 - 61.2%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So if Kyurem gets one play out of earth power freeze dry or ice beam right it kills something. It also outspeeds everything so a metronome set is very dangerous too since the water types can't break the sub.

I personally think you can get rid of mantine for maybe a rotom heat or something else that helps with Kyurem or corv maybe keep the ground immunity.

 

[Andrew Loh]

This looks like a fun team. I can see bulky drill catching a lot things off guard. I would agree that the zeraora match-up is not that bad, especially with drill taking a hit. I agree that bulk up corv is a problem since it sets up on half the team and is only barely if even managed by the rest. Another thing that wasn't mentioned is Kyurem. The more offensive clef opens you up to be 2hkoed by specs ice beam.

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 192 HP / 100+ SpD Clefable: 196-232 (51.7 - 61.2%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So if Kyurem gets one play out of earth power freeze dry or ice beam right it kills something. It also outspeeds everything so a metronome set is very dangerous too since the water types can't break the sub.

I personally think you can get rid of mantine for maybe a rotom heat or something else that helps with Kyurem or corv maybe keep the ground immunity.

Thanks for mentioning Specs Kyurem, I forgot to mention about that beast, oof. I agree Kyurem will be hard to deal with, but not totally impossible to deal with, if played right. To preserve the current team member(without making any changes to the team), Specs Kyurem does not actually ohko the following mons:

Spoilers

Conkeldurr (chance to live at full)
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 313-370 (86.9 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after burn damage
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 313-370 (86.9 - 102.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage
If they clicked Draco Meteor then go Clefable/Excadrill/Aegislash for setup/revenge kill (possibility)

Clefable (if setup once)
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. +1 192 HP / 100 SpD Clefable: 144-171 (37.9 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Gastrodon
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 208+ SpD Gastrodon: 187-222 (44 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Aegislash
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 220-260 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Abomasnow: 220-260 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Mantine
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 126-148 (33.7 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 195-231 (52.2 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possibly the only switch-in I can risk, if Freeze Dry hits then go Clefable/Aegislash and nab a kill

If they were SubRoost Metronome Kyurem, only CM Clefable or Amnesia Gastrodon(if they have Ice Beam>Freeze Dry) can have a staple fight against it, otherwise it will be Aegislash/Excadrill/Mach Punch Conkeldurr sack fiesta+revenge kill shenanigan.

So the alternative option is as you suggested, which is replacing Mantine with Rotoms(I would choose Rotom-Heat or Rotom-Wash and I will explain below). Honestly I like the idea very much, but it has the pros and cons(compared to using Mantine).

Pros

Rotom-Heat
- Help against Kyurem/Corviknight/Zeraora(period)/Togekiss/Aegislash(revenge kill)/non-Sludge Bomb Venusaur


Rotom-Wash
- Help against Corviknight/Sand Rush Excadrill/any Water/Flying mon
- Spammable STAB move unlike Rotom-Heat
- Able to use Leftovers, save a moveslot for other moves over Pain Split

Cons

Rotom-Heat

Rotom-Wash
- Makes the team goes 50/50 against Dracovish/Specs Primarina/Keldeo/Rain
- Specs Chandelure/Dragapult/Gengar/Aegislash (these mons always 3hko Mantine unless hax)
- no true Ground-immunity means Mold Breaker Excadrill clicking Earthquake freely

So in the end, it is possible to use Rotom over Mantine, just depends on which mon you find to be more annoying to face, at the same time, I can say that Mantine is solid enough to have its place in this team.

 

[kawaiioneechan]

I would require more persuasive element on the speed issue as I do not think I need a scarfer over Gastrodon, currently. The move Amnesia does have the uses if you checked the "Set in-Details" where I explained it.

I wasn't suggesting gastrodon in particular to be replaced just that mantine and gastrodon are kind of fulfilling a very similar role, it might be easiest to switch out either one without compromising your team too much but if you'd like to replace someone else with a scarfer go ahead, I just think you really need some kind of speed control somewhere

I'll try convincing you by highlighting that your fastest mon is excadrill and he's not even max speed, it's out sped by adamant dracovish, literally anything faster than that could pose quite a problem(base 75 neutral and above), it's quite a big list like. If you encounter banded vish(though rarer nowadays) on a team it will 2HKO and outspeed everything on your team, even though you're supposedly running 2 mons just for dracovish, even the scarf version has a chance to 2HKO everything with outrage except excadrill/aegi who will both die to fishious rend if you predict wrong. While aegislash and conk's priority do a considerably good job checking what the other can't, stuff like modest venusaur(without the sun) outspeeds your whole team and neither can really deal with it, especially if it gets a growth off on gastrodon or mantine.

100% agree on the gastro vs corvi stuff, it'd literally just be fishing for a burn, was a pretty bad example tbf. I just feel like amnesia is a meme and doesn't really do anything, not that scald really does much of anything either.

 

[Andrew Loh]

I'll try convincing you by highlighting that your fastest mon is excadrill and he's not even max speed, it's out sped by adamant dracovish, literally anything faster than that could pose quite a problem(base 75 neutral and above), it's quite a big list like. If you encounter banded vish(though rarer nowadays) on a team it will 2HKO and outspeed everything on your team, even though you're supposedly running 2 mons just for dracovish, even the scarf version has a chance to 2HKO everything with outrage except excadrill/aegi who will both die to fishious rend if you predict wrong. While aegislash and conk's priority do a considerably good job checking what the other can't, stuff like modest venusaur(without the sun) outspeeds your whole team and neither can really deal with it, especially if it gets a growth off on gastrodon or mantine.

In Dracovish case, I would gladly let it Outrage and kill one of the Water Absorb mon(that is why I used them in the first place anyway), then bring out Clefable for the locked revenge kill.
0+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dracovish: 335-398 (104.3 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And yes, Sun team is one of the most troublesome team I would be facing, cannot deny that unfortunately. Though, if you have any changes to be made for that to deal with sun better but remain the team originally effectiveness, I'm all ears.

 

[Andrew Loh]

A nice little bump, hoping for more feedback on this team please. A few replays and a brief description so this post doesn't looks empty

Changes that I applied:
made Conkeldurr full speed(adapted into the first post)

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1079764206 (Bulk Up Corviknight is manageable )
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1077023303 (Steel Beam Aegi yeet yeet Turn 23)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1077024923 (defensive Excadrill highlight Turn 15, taking one Earthquake)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1079935773 (Turn 22, that HP ev on Conkeldurr mattered, jkjk)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1079766426 (the charm of double hazard remover)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1079758392 (Why I need 2 Dracovish check)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1079761796 (Turn 24, why you need amnesia on this particular Gastrodon, ft. Excadrill the Dragapult check)

Enjoy, and have a nice day.