Would it really make anybody happier if the title was "Would a Substitute Blissey work?"
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Would an offensive Blissey work?
- Thread starter Magmortified
- Start date
Is Gravity Blissey wtih Thunder and Blizzard (with Softboiled) really that gimmicky that the Smogon analysis doesn't even mention it as a possibility? (disabled search means I can't find old gravity threads)
aww man, this makes me cry when I look at Bliss's lack of attack. If only it had like a base of 90 so it could wreak havok with sub punch/ double edge >_>
I'm missing the point of having substitute...Softboiled would be way more useful, since this thing doesn't require any CMs or anything, why not straight out attack and heal?
with a re-working of the EVs and some damage calcs, maybe a gimmick possibility, but I don't see it being anything major.
with a re-working of the EVs and some damage calcs, maybe a gimmick possibility, but I don't see it being anything major.
CMBliss rang. She's very angry with this thread.
Substitute is for the purpose of hiding behind them while you go out to take on anything they've got to take Blissey with. Straight out attacking and healing wouldn't last against an Infernape.
I just realized I'm horrible at damage calcs.
So... after a few suggestions, something like this:
Blissey @ Leftovers/Expert Belt
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 Defense, 252 Special Attack, 4 Speed
-Substitute
-Psychic
-Focus Blast
-Softboiled/Ice Beam
I just realized I'm horrible at damage calcs.
So... after a few suggestions, something like this:
Blissey @ Leftovers/Expert Belt
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 Defense, 252 Special Attack, 4 Speed
-Substitute
-Psychic
-Focus Blast
-Softboiled/Ice Beam
I think what most of us are trying to say is that Substitute isn't accomplishing anything except for aiding in prediction. If you can predict what is being switched in, you could easily ditch Substitute for the very useful Softboiled.
The question is if you can predict exactly what they'll be switching in. Which is kind of difficult considering the number of Pokemon that Blissey generally has problems with. Focus Blast isn't exactly a great idea if they send in an Infernape.
posting what was already said: as an avid user of CMbliss myself, i'd have to say it's extremely offensive. Being able to kill a garchomp/gyarados while they taunt/swords dance in your face (or surviving any attack from them unboosted, most times surviving with < 50%) is a lot better than anything you're accomplishing. Any team without a STAB'd fighter will most times see itself destroyed by a CMbliss, and it makes a very effective late-game sweeper, when Scarfchomp or whathaveyou is running about.
Having Ice beam KO isn't necessarily needed however, as without CB it's laughable attack bounces off while you ice beam, and most times she can live through CB'd versions, as most bliss's ice beam first, so unless it's revenge/subb'd, bliss can generally beat a dugtrio, or maybe render him useless.
EDIT: if you really want a more 'offensive' blissey, then just use Focus Blast over either of those attacks listed in CM.
Having Ice beam KO isn't necessarily needed however, as without CB it's laughable attack bounces off while you ice beam, and most times she can live through CB'd versions, as most bliss's ice beam first, so unless it's revenge/subb'd, bliss can generally beat a dugtrio, or maybe render him useless.
EDIT: if you really want a more 'offensive' blissey, then just use Focus Blast over either of those attacks listed in CM.
Why don't you just attack on the switch? You are going to be taking a hit based on the damage calcs you made so you might as well damage the switch-in and give yourself a better chance of surviving an attack without the 25% health drop. That also allows you to use Softboiled so this thing can actually come back in again.
Does nobody understand the concept behind this set? Softboiled would be horrible. THey would switch in infernape and promptly ohko you.
THIS BLISSEY SET IS NOT A WALL.
ITS A TRAP
The whole point is, you send it out against something like a starmie or a porygon z. They assume they are walled. They switch out, giving you a chance to USE SUBSTITUTE. Then, they cannot ohko you because of your substitute. That gives you a chance to psychic the hera, phychic the infernape. FB the boa, ect. You are not a full wall. You trick them into thinking you are a wall so they loose a poke.
Thats why you use substitute on the switch so you can see what they switch in. Did you even read the OP? or did you just look at the set and calcs.
SubBliss isn't that bad. If you use it at the right time, it can help you block Explosions from annoying things like Forretress and Bronzong. Plus, like the OP said, force switches by bringing Blissey in, Sub on the switch, and then hit all the incoming Fights with Psychic, kill the incoming Dragons with Ice Beam and kill Weaviles/Tyranitars and such with Focus Blast (providing it hits). The great thing about this set is that it hits a lot of its counters super-effective and can thus easily kill them with 273 special attack, even OHKOing Garchomp with Ice Beam.
On the EV spread though, I really do agree with everyone about taking away all the HP EVs and shoving them into Defense.
As for an offensive Blissey, CM Bliss like everyone keeps saying is good, but has nobody tried SpecsBliss?
I gave it a try once, it worked okay:
Blissey@Choice Specs
EVs: 252 DEF/252 SATK/4 SPE
Ablilty: Serene Grace/Natural Cure
Bold/Modest
~ Rest/Softboiled
~ Ice Beam
~ Psychic/Thunderbolt/Thunder
~ Fire Blast
Yeah, really, just let Blissey go all-out attacking with this set. If you want, put Focus Blast in there somewhere if you really need Blissey to take out Tyranitar. Fire Blast is there because it's Blissey's strongest move that has good accuracy. Rest is for Natural Cure, and Softboiled is for Serene Grace. With Serene Grace Thunderbolt should most likely be favoured over Psychic because of the enhanced chance of Paralysis. If you're a real risktaker, then you can go with Thunder instead to make the 20% of paralysis a 60% chance. Heh, this is an okay set since it does pack 409 special attack after specs, but obviously CM Bliss is a lot better.
On the EV spread though, I really do agree with everyone about taking away all the HP EVs and shoving them into Defense.
As for an offensive Blissey, CM Bliss like everyone keeps saying is good, but has nobody tried SpecsBliss?
I gave it a try once, it worked okay:
Blissey@Choice Specs
EVs: 252 DEF/252 SATK/4 SPE
Ablilty: Serene Grace/Natural Cure
Bold/Modest
~ Rest/Softboiled
~ Ice Beam
~ Psychic/Thunderbolt/Thunder
~ Fire Blast
Yeah, really, just let Blissey go all-out attacking with this set. If you want, put Focus Blast in there somewhere if you really need Blissey to take out Tyranitar. Fire Blast is there because it's Blissey's strongest move that has good accuracy. Rest is for Natural Cure, and Softboiled is for Serene Grace. With Serene Grace Thunderbolt should most likely be favoured over Psychic because of the enhanced chance of Paralysis. If you're a real risktaker, then you can go with Thunder instead to make the 20% of paralysis a 60% chance. Heh, this is an okay set since it does pack 409 special attack after specs, but obviously CM Bliss is a lot better.
XD He IS the OP.
I was saying did you read the ORIGINAL POST. That just happens to have the same abreviation.
Who exactly were you replying to? Me? I was mainly pointing out that it's indeed possible to predict wrong. Not to mention that it apparently isn't an OHKO on Infernape without CC. And, uh, yeah, I was the one who made the original post in the first place.
oh my god i know this is a firebot-esque post but i just have to say that the fact superbro didn't put two and two together and realize that OP: Original Post and Original Poster, while both being different abbreviations mean the exact same thing is simply astonishing.
also, to make this relevant
subbing on the switch to an infernape does nothing. If you do max 83% to infernape with psychic as it is, then he breaks your sub and kills you, doing a lot worse than if you had just attacked on the switch.
seriously, if you want an all out attacked bolt/beam/focus blast/softboiled seems the best way to go, giving you awesome coverage, killing off garchomps, heatrans, tyranitars, gyaradoses, weaviles, salamences, and many other fun pokemon. While it wouldn't have the versatility of CMbliss, at least you'd be killing shit.
Note: May actually be fun with serene grace, with higher chances of SDEF drop, para, or freeze.
also, to make this relevant
subbing on the switch to an infernape does nothing. If you do max 83% to infernape with psychic as it is, then he breaks your sub and kills you, doing a lot worse than if you had just attacked on the switch.
seriously, if you want an all out attacked bolt/beam/focus blast/softboiled seems the best way to go, giving you awesome coverage, killing off garchomps, heatrans, tyranitars, gyaradoses, weaviles, salamences, and many other fun pokemon. While it wouldn't have the versatility of CMbliss, at least you'd be killing shit.
Note: May actually be fun with serene grace, with higher chances of SDEF drop, para, or freeze.
Apparently most Infernapes use Close Combat to break the Sub. Raising it to an OHKO with Infernape's Defense drop. Go figure.
It would be pretty fun.
I wasn't sure if an infernape's CC would drop defense or not when i posted due to some early testing on shoddy's earlier versions, so it slipped my mind. Sorry for the confusion.
Rest of post still applies. Blissey should never be your answer to infernape.
Perhaps not solely. But it's one heck of a surprise when one comes in.