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XY LC Analysis Reservation Index
- Thread starter tcr
- Start date
Claiming Pansear (Checked with Levi) working with both a mini-drifloon set and a houndour like set that lives foo and timburr drain punch.
Pansear @ Berry Juice
Ability: Blaze
Level: 5
EVs: 132 Def / 212 SpD / 164 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flame Charge
- Recycle
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
Pansear @ Life Orb/Eviolite
Ability: Gluttony
Level: 5
EVs: 52 Def / 176 SpA / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Substitute
Still doing a lot of calcs and testing before writing the full analysis. I'll probably start with the Drifloon-like one!
approved - levi
Pansear @ Berry Juice
Ability: Blaze
Level: 5
EVs: 132 Def / 212 SpD / 164 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flame Charge
- Recycle
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
Pansear @ Life Orb/Eviolite
Ability: Gluttony
Level: 5
EVs: 52 Def / 176 SpA / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Substitute
Still doing a lot of calcs and testing before writing the full analysis. I'll probably start with the Drifloon-like one!
approved - levi
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What are the reasons to use Whismur over Porygon?
Whismur has access to Hyper Voice, which has a higher Base Power than Tri Attack as well as the ability to ignore Substitute, which means it has an easier time revenge killing. It also gets access to Fire Blast to reliably deal with Steel types. In addition, it gets access to Shadow Ball and Ice Beam (like Porygon does) as well as Water Pulse, which is weak, but can hit Rock types (though HP Water/Grass/Ground does the same, it lacks the chance of confusion).
Whismur also has the ability to run a physical or a mixed set, with powerful coverage moves on the physical end as well, most notably Hammer Arm and Zen Headbutt. Hammer Arm is esspecially notable, as Whismur needs to be used with Trick Room, and Hammer Arm makes it even slower, allowing it to underspeed opposing Trick Room teams after one usage. Lastly, Whismur hits 6 speed as opposed to Porygon's 8, meaning it is slightly faster in TR (though admittedly, this won't come into play often).
Whismur also has the ability to run a physical or a mixed set, with powerful coverage moves on the physical end as well, most notably Hammer Arm and Zen Headbutt. Hammer Arm is esspecially notable, as Whismur needs to be used with Trick Room, and Hammer Arm makes it even slower, allowing it to underspeed opposing Trick Room teams after one usage. Lastly, Whismur hits 6 speed as opposed to Porygon's 8, meaning it is slightly faster in TR (though admittedly, this won't come into play often).
I don't think Trick Room should be taken into account given that Whismur can't learn Trick Room itself, and it's too weak to warrant use as a dedicated Trick Room sweeper, seeing how Trick Room teams already struggle to cover all of their bases. Mixed and physical sets would be done better by Munchlax and Lickitung, which lack decent special STAB moves but I believe outclass Whismur in every other way.
Feel free to bring up anything we may have missed, but I'm not sure if Whismur is the way to go, as I can't think of a competitively designed team that would genuinely appreciate it over another Normal-type. That being said, it's always nice to see potential contributors - if you plan to stick around for gen 7, I'm sure it'll be much easier to reserve an analysis for a viable Pokemon.
Feel free to bring up anything we may have missed, but I'm not sure if Whismur is the way to go, as I can't think of a competitively designed team that would genuinely appreciate it over another Normal-type. That being said, it's always nice to see potential contributors - if you plan to stick around for gen 7, I'm sure it'll be much easier to reserve an analysis for a viable Pokemon.
I personally used Whismur on a team dedicated to using Whismur, which used Spritzee, Porygon, Slowpoke and Solosis as TR setters and Grimer as the final mon. It worked, but Whismur definitely wasn't the main player (though it was usually more important than Porygon actually, which surprised me). It filled the role of coming in every single time a mon died and revenge killing, assuming Trick Room was up. It performed this role better than most other mons, due to Hyper Voice ignoring subs and Fire Blast hitting like a truck. I personally can't think of a Pokemon that could fill that role better, but I'm not the most experienced in LC, so feel free to correct me.
I will certainly stick around for SuMo, but I'm not sure if it will be in LC. I certainly enjoy the tier, but I am more experienced in OU and UU, so I might go there first. As far as right now goes, is there a list of mons that haven't been reserved somewhere? I might pick one I also have some experience with to get used to writing analyses.
I just feel that Whismur is a bit too weak - for example, it needs Life Orb to even 2HKO Tauntfoo with Hyper Voice or OHKO Pawniard with Fire Blast, which itself leaves it vulnerable to being revenge-killed. The Pokemon that commonly run Substitute are Abra, Diglett, Snivy, and Gastly, but they would generally not be using Substitute on your team, and Hyper Voice does not affect Gastly. I feel that Download Porygon's far superior offensive presence (Psychic cleanly OHKOes Tauntfoo and Hidden Power Fighting OHKOes Pawniard, for example; if Porygon filled Whismur's role and ran Life Orb, even Hidden Power Fire could OHKO Pawniard), on top of its own access to Trick Room, would render it a better choice for Trick Room teams overall. If you're looking for a general Special Attacker, I think that 75 base SpA would be a good benchmark to aim for as it would allow the Pokemon to 2HKO Tauntfoo with a neutral STAB 90 base power atttack.
We do not have a list of unreserved Pokemon at the moment; the new generation is coming up and our current analyses are in good shape, so new analyses aren't being prioritized right now.
We do not have a list of unreserved Pokemon at the moment; the new generation is coming up and our current analyses are in good shape, so new analyses aren't being prioritized right now.
Thanks for the feedback! While I certainly agree Whismur is outclassed by most other normal types, I feel like it covers a niche in that it is able to hit bulky grass types hard with Fire Blast (with Porygon lacks). Nevertheless, I agree that its role is better filled by Porygon after your explanation, and will be leaving it at that.
The only Pokemon that doesn't have an analysis right now that I thought might be worth looking at is Klink, as the combination of Shift Gear and Gear Grind could make it threatening, but I don't have much experience with it and it is outclassed by Pawniard, so I won't be reserving it. I'll come back for SuMo to potentially write some analyses then
Genderless pokemon cannot learn breeding moves so Klink can't have Shift Gear & Gear Grind at lv5. Whismur is also an awful pokemon and i don't think there is a point on making an analysis for a pokemon that has completely no use on competitive teams, its stats are low, doesn't have any notable trait and Porygon is infinitely better plus it won't lack a way of hitting bulky grasses hard btw, Porygon learns Ice Beam.
240+ SpA Life Orb Porygon Ice Beam vs. 204 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Pumpkaboo-Super: 13-18 (52 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
188+ SpA Life Orb Whismur Fire Blast vs. 204 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Pumpkaboo-Super: 13-18 (52 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Again, not trying to argue that Whismur is better than Porygon, but it does have a niche as a TR Revenge Killer that can break through subs and hit bulky grass types harder than Porygon can. It is practically outclassed in every way, but this is the one niche it does have, though it is very small.
EDIT: Also, I forgot about Klink lacking those moves. Without them, he does seem pretty useless yeah.
EDIT 2: Gave Porygon LO as well, while Whimur's niche gets diminished, Porygon rarely carries Life Orb and it still shows that Whismur is not useless. Plus, Fire Blast hits Steel types as well.
188+ SpA Life Orb Whismur Fire Blast vs. 204 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Pumpkaboo-Super: 13-18 (52 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Again, not trying to argue that Whismur is better than Porygon, but it does have a niche as a TR Revenge Killer that can break through subs and hit bulky grass types harder than Porygon can. It is practically outclassed in every way, but this is the one niche it does have, though it is very small.
EDIT: Also, I forgot about Klink lacking those moves. Without them, he does seem pretty useless yeah.
EDIT 2: Gave Porygon LO as well, while Whimur's niche gets diminished, Porygon rarely carries Life Orb and it still shows that Whismur is not useless. Plus, Fire Blast hits Steel types as well.
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It can't break through subs.
It can, Hyper Voice ignores Substitutes
Yes, but if you let Porygon hold a Life Orb as well, it's just as strong:
240+ SpA Life Orb Porygon Ice Beam vs. 204 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Pumpkaboo-Super: 13-18 (52 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
But Pumpkaboo-Super is one of the rare specially defensive Pokemon. Against the Pokemon that Porygon's Download activates against, it hits much harder.
Also, I looked into this a bit more and Porygon can learn Round, which is also sound-based:
240+ SpA Life Orb Porygon Round vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Snivy: 13-17 (61.9 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 240+ SpA Life Orb Porygon Round vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Snivy: 21-25 (100 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
188+ SpA Life Orb Whismur Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Snivy: 17-21 (80.9 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
So Porygon is a little bit weaker without Download and a little bit stronger with it. Keep in mind that the metagame is predominantly physically based so Porygon will get its Download boost more often than not.
240+ SpA Life Orb Porygon Ice Beam vs. 204 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Pumpkaboo-Super: 13-18 (52 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
But Pumpkaboo-Super is one of the rare specially defensive Pokemon. Against the Pokemon that Porygon's Download activates against, it hits much harder.
Also, I looked into this a bit more and Porygon can learn Round, which is also sound-based:
240+ SpA Life Orb Porygon Round vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Snivy: 13-17 (61.9 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 240+ SpA Life Orb Porygon Round vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Snivy: 21-25 (100 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
188+ SpA Life Orb Whismur Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Snivy: 17-21 (80.9 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
So Porygon is a little bit weaker without Download and a little bit stronger with it. Keep in mind that the metagame is predominantly physically based so Porygon will get its Download boost more often than not.
Yeah, I know. I have stopped trying to argue that Whismur deserves an analysis, since I have realized that I was wrong. It is almost completely outclassed by Porygon, with it having a very small niche in its access to Hyper Voice and Fire Blast. That one niche is what I am trying to defend, but unless you absolutely need something that has access to both of those moves (for whatever reason), don't use Whismur.
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Why is access to Fire Blast and Hyper Voice noteworthy? It's only a niche if it matters. For example Ralts has access to Dual Screens and Memento, but that doesn't actually matter as a) anything that needs that for set up isn't worth it and b) Ralts is really bad despite its somewhat cool move pool.
Even if LO Fire Blast makes Whismur almost impossible to switch into after webs or whatever (it doesn't though), you're using a pokemon with a grand total of 240 BST. Its physical bulk which is almost as bad as Abra's, and worse special bulk than Abra. It has two almost worthless abilities, preventing it from edging out any other Normal types. Special Defensive Vullaby hits the same speed as Timid max Speed Whismur.
If it doesn't OHKO or 2HKO and outspeed, it is essentially dead. With such low speed, this is really bad. Whismur does not have a worthwhile niche even if it has a cool movepool. You can't justify using Whismur, you really can't.
I don't mean to turn you off from contributing, as that's a really great thing and we always welcome more contributors, but right now LC has very few if any analysis to work on. Feel free to pick up a few once Sun and Moon drops, but until then, we don't have any new analysis to write.
Even if LO Fire Blast makes Whismur almost impossible to switch into after webs or whatever (it doesn't though), you're using a pokemon with a grand total of 240 BST. Its physical bulk which is almost as bad as Abra's, and worse special bulk than Abra. It has two almost worthless abilities, preventing it from edging out any other Normal types. Special Defensive Vullaby hits the same speed as Timid max Speed Whismur.
If it doesn't OHKO or 2HKO and outspeed, it is essentially dead. With such low speed, this is really bad. Whismur does not have a worthwhile niche even if it has a cool movepool. You can't justify using Whismur, you really can't.
I don't mean to turn you off from contributing, as that's a really great thing and we always welcome more contributors, but right now LC has very few if any analysis to work on. Feel free to pick up a few once Sun and Moon drops, but until then, we don't have any new analysis to write.
I would like to request a Choice Scarf Natu set. It's high SpA and Speed, as well as U-Turn, seem to allow it to actually make for a pretty decent Choice Scarf user.
Natu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magic Bounce
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 76 Def / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- U-turn
- Dazzling Gleam
- Heat Wave/Giga Drain
Anyone have any thoughts on this thing?
Natu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magic Bounce
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 76 Def / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- U-turn
- Dazzling Gleam
- Heat Wave/Giga Drain
Anyone have any thoughts on this thing?
Natu's a bit of a weird case in that nothing it does is completely outclassed, but what is Scarf Natu's niche? Life Orb Natu has the power and coverage to be pretty difficult to switch into on top of its utility, and bulky Natu completely shuts down some common Pokemon. Scarf Natu seems a bit weak - for example, it needs Stealth Rock to even OHKO tauntfoo, let alone slowfoo - and an unSTABed U-turn off 9 Atk isn't super impressive. Is there really a scenario where I'd rather use it over another Scarf user or Natu set?
can I have replays of Ledyba doing well against competent opponents?
e: approved
e: approved
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I would like to claim a revamp on Teddiursa. It is incredibly bare bones for a mon with such a versatile movepool, and the only time Quick Feet (Teddiursa's main niche) is even mentioned is in the intro. Taking a quick glance through the current analysis, it just seems to have been swept aside, and I want to fix that.
