Resource XY RU Tier List (RU Viability Ranking itt)

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Tangrowth should drop to C+ in my opinion.
The defensive set is pretty much outclassed by the likes of Amoonguss (and Roselia to a lesser extent) who has waaay better typing (let's it wall Hitmoblee and absorb Toxic Spikes among others), mixed bulk that more than make up for the slight loss in Defense and offensive sets are mostly outclassed by Virizion, Rotom-C and even Sceptile (who prolly needs to drop)

I also support Volbeat being added to D as I have used with great success as a rain setter and, while it is pretty much outclassed at doing anything else the fact that it can repeatedly set up rain on troublesome Grass-types and the added bulk that let it take on shit like Hitmomlee ok make it worth of a ranking of some sort.
 
I'm really not sure about adding Volbeat. The niche as a Prankster Pokemon is there, but it does recieve a lot of competition from RU's other Prankster Pokemon and Baton Pass users that makes me a little bit shaky on it all.

When it comes to Baton Pass, Volbeat recieves stiff competition from Nastypass Togetic, who doesn't have Prankster Encore, but has a ridiculous amount of bulk and something even more important: no priority on Baton Pass. This way Togetic can pull off a Baton Pass and get its recipient in safely most of the time, something Volbeat really struggles with, and considering you can only have one Baton Pass Pokemon on a team now i'd almost always go to Togetic before Volbeat for my special attack passing needs. Gorebyss and Combusken are two other important Pokemon to consider in the Baton Passing role.

When it comes to weather setting, you still run into a problem. Liepard, Meowstic-Male, and Whimsicott still accomplish the job better. Whimsicott's great typing gives it more opportunities to switch in and set up Sunny Day (it doesn't get Rain Dance), and all the other relevant things weather Volbeat wants, such as U-turn, Prankster Encore, or Prankster Stun Spore. Along with some other goodies such as Tailwind and Memento (have fun vs +2 Victreebel x__x) Whimsicott might be better off running an offensive set, but that's a moot point when even the inferior defensive set is doing the job better than Volbeat :(. Whimsicott can also set up on the things galbia mentioned above thanks to its typing and more, at least for sun teams.

When it comes to Rain Dance, there's Liepard, who isn't quite as bulky but still has access to all the important support moves weather Volbeat wants (Encore, Twave, U-Turn), and also possesses STAB Knock Off and a decent Attack stat to hurt things if it needs to.

Lastly, boy Meowstic gets both Rain Dance and Sunny Day, it doesn't have access to Encore or U-turn, but it still has Thunder Wave and something else really nice: Dual Screens, which are really helpful in getting things like Shell Smash Omastar and Growth Victreebel set up and ready to go.

Aside from doing the same thing Volbeat can do but arguably just as effectively, none of these Pokemon are weak to Stealth Rock, while Volbeat is.

TL;DR, not sure about Volbeat, the other Prankster Pokemon seem to simply do the job better on paper, and when it comes to baton passing nastypass Togetic gives it stiff competition especially given the BP limit.

As for Tangrowth, i'm not directly opposed to it, but i'd like to point out that while it recieves competition from the other Grass-types: it's no Florges VS Sylveon or Jellicent VS Slowking. The defensive set still has higher all around offensive stats, Leech Seed, more physical bulk, and Knock Off to help seperate itself from Amoonguss, and Tangrowth's immense bulk, access to Sleep Powder, and Regenerator make an offensive set quite viable without being totally overshadowed by Sceptile or Mowtom, so keep that in mind when discussing its rank.
 
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Mega Banette should probably drop to A-. While it has some fantastic qualities that help it distinguish itself from other Ghost-types (like priority Destiny Bond and Taunt etc) it is a bit more difficult to slap into a team because of its average bulk and because of the added utility the other Ghost-types provide. Both Spiritomb and Doublade do the spinblocking job better and have additional utility in Pursuit trapping and checking/countering the all so popular Psychic types (Spiritomb), or their ridicolous Typing, bulk, and sweeping potential (Doublade). A good mon but should be a little lower in my opinion.

also i updated the art thingy
4RjIKWR.png
 
To add on a bit more about Mega Banette, while it is in fact a very good Pokemon, it definitely has some flaws that hold it back a bit (although it actually does learn Pursuit Galbia :o).

1) It doesn't have Prankster when it first switches in:

This is a big one, one of the main reasons to utilize Mega Banette in the first place is because of its access to Prankster Taunt, Will-O-Wisp, and especially Destiny Bond. However, to be able to use these moves with priority at all, Mega Banette has to be alive and mega evolved for at least one turn, which decreases its utility a bit (can you imagine how much of a boon for offense this thing would be if it had priority wisp/dbond from the start of the match). Most of the time Mega Banette can get itself ready to go before it ends up knocked out, but it's not the easiest thing to do honestly. Regular Banette's defenses are really bad: sitting at a measly 64/65/63, and it really hates most status conditions: especially burn, which really limits how often regular Banette can actually get into the game to safely mega evolve and get its priority Destiny Bond/Taunt/Wisp, and sometimes by the time it does so it's too late.

2) Four moveslot syndrome.

When it comes from Pokemon that suffer from 4mss, Mega Banette is one of the worst. It has all these great offensive/utility moves to choose from, but it can only stick four of them onto a set, which is a real letdown. Meganette really wishes its standard set could be Taunt/WoW/Sucker Punch/Shadow Sneak/Knock Off/Pursuit/Shadow Claw/Gunk Shot/Destiny Bond/Thunder Wave ;-;.

3) Competition from other Ghost-types

As mentioned by Galbia above, Mega Banette needs to compete with some other very viable Ghost-types for a teamslot: namely Doublade and Spiritomb. Both of them are much bulkier than Mega Banette and happen to perform the spinblocking job quite a bit better because of that, and that same bulk and their other positive traits (Spiritomb's the best Melo check in the whole tier, Doublade is a top tier threat with great bulk and typing) make them a bit easier to slap onto a team than Mega Banette imo (Doublade moreso).

4) Mega Banette is not a good stallbreaker

This isn't really a flaw as much as it is a misconception. Mega Banette is more of an offensive Pokemon or "oh shit" emergency button with its prankster Destiny Bond than a stallbreaker despite its good Attack stat and access to Prankster Taunt because of its lack of reliable recovery =/.

So, thoughts on Mega Banette? A or A- iyo
 
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Molk said:
When it comes to Rain Dance, there's Liepard, who isn't quite as bulky but still has access to all the important support moves weather Volbeat wants (Encore, Twave, U-Turn), and also possesses STAB Knock Off and a decent Attack stat to hurt things if it needs to.
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Well, since I've been using Volbeat as a Weather Support, I might as well throw my 2 cents here. The main reason to run Volbeat over Liepard is because of her typing, since it has above average synergy with some of the main rain abusers (Kabutops and Omastar mostly), being able to shrug off the Ground, Grass, and Fighting-type moves aimed at them is a pretty cool trait. Besides that, there's also the slow U-turn, since Liepard usually runs max Speed, and even if it doesn't its U-turn is still faster than a considerable amount of things. I don't know if that alone is worth ranking, but I find Volbeat far from unusable.

As someone who's also used Banette, it could probably move down, since while it's a /good/ get out of the jail card, it suffers from a couple of flaws, the biggest one being 4MSS, lack of a solid STAB move to abuse of its sky high Attack stat (seriously, if this thing were Ghost/Dark to spam Knock Off and Pursuit zz) and the inability to active Prankster from the get go, which force you to run Protect (which I still think is shit) if you want to use her as a dedicated "wat do now" Pokemon against stuff that set up more than they should have. The set I usually run is Taunt / Shadow Sneak / Knock Off / Destiny Bond, if someone has anything better then I'm open up to suggestions. But yeah, in the end, I don't think Banette is as relevant as stuff like Cresselia, Virizion, Alomomola and so on, and it wouldn't hurt to move it down.
 
Pearl. said:
Well, since I've been using Volbeat as a Weather Support, I might as well throw my 2 cents here. The main reason to run Volbeat over Liepard is because of her typing, since it has above average synergy with some of the main rain abusers (Kabutops and Omastar mostly), being able to shrug off the Ground, Grass, and Fighting-type moves aimed at them is a pretty cool trait. Besides that, there's also the slow U-turn, since Liepard usually runs max Speed, and even if it doesn't its U-turn is still faster than a considerable amount of things. I don't know if that alone is worth ranking, but I find Volbeat far from unusable.

As someone who's also used Banette, it could probably move down, since while it's a /good/ get out of the jail card, it suffers from a couple of flaws, the biggest one being 4MSS, lack of a solid STAB move to abuse of its sky high Attack stat (seriously, if this thing were Ghost/Dark to spam Knock Off and Pursuit zz) and the inability to active Prankster from the get go, which force you to run Protect (which I still think is shit) if you want to use her as a dedicated "wat do now" Pokemon against stuff that set up more than they should have. The set I usually run is Taunt / Shadow Sneak / Knock Off / Destiny Bond, if someone has anything better then I'm open up to suggestions. But yeah, in the end, I don't think Banette is as relevant as stuff like Cresselia, Virizion, Alomomola and so on, and it wouldn't hurt to move it down.
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As someone who has used Liepard since the early days of XY RU Beta, the high Speed is a double-edged sword. While, yes, it makes Liepard's U-turn really fast, it also lets Liepard come in on the likes of Delphox, Meloetta, and Mismagius after they've KOed something (likely after weather petters out and your weather sweeper no longer has the speed boost) and threaten to revenge kill them with STAB Knock Off. No other weather setter in the tier is able to do this reliably, and considering the high threat level of Delphox and Meloetta, I'd say this make Liepard much more usable over Volbeat just for that added utility. I mean, if I want a really slow U-turn, why not use Uxie? Sure it loses Prankster, but you get the Fighting resist, Ground immunity, much higher bulk, and the ability to run a Speed lowering nature. Really, the only thing I see Volbeat having is Prankster, unlike Uxie, and a slow U-turn, unlike Liepard. If you need both in one teamslot, then I guess you could go for it? But I get by just fine with Uxie + Liepard + Ludicolo / Moltres (depends on rain dance or sunny day) as the weather setters.

Agreeing on Meganette. It honestly hasn't been the same since the Shuckle ban. Imo, Sticky Web is what really made Mega-Bannette such a powerful Pokemon as it had the support capabilities and Shuckle so easily provided it with Speed control to make it so dangerous. It's still not a bad Pokemon by any means, but Spiritomb and Doublade sort of overshadow it. Spiritomb is the best Meloetta counter in the tier and it gets STAB Pursuit / Sucker Punch while Doublade is one of the most defining threats in the tier rn.

May make a nom later, but I want to test out my theory first.
 
I've been asking for nette to go down for a while, Molk gave all the reasons, and at least IMO mega snow is RUs best mega, so it shouldn't be in a lower rank o,o
 
Rhyperior doesnt belongs S-Rank anymore, sorely as Stealth Rock user which is one of the best user if not the best but is not so good. Also have notable flaws like is supposed to check fire types but most stronger fire types are special + carry grass moves which 2HKO/HKO perior.

I feel that Rhyperior deserves A+/A rank, A+ mostly rank because is probably like the best Stealth Rock user in the tier, great bulk + still hits hard at the same time, Perior is like Landorus-T in OU but on this tier even probably worse since is very slow.

tldr perior hurt me eyes on S rank n_n
 
I'd like some more reasoning/support before moving Rhyperior down

Anyone who plays RU, what's your standing on Rhyperior? S or A+? either way, *please* explain why. The last 10 or so proposals except maybe Hot N Cold's have failed to provide any reasoning on why it should be moved ;-;.
 
posting to say I agree with:

Rhyperior to A+: kinda lost whats going for it with the rise of a lot of special attackers, its the best SR user but thats why it would be in A+ and not any lower

Banette moving down: yeah banette has huge 4mss and weakness to knock off sucks even if its only base 65 power,and the turn to megavolve is very annoying

Reuniclus to A+: self-explanatory i guess? but OTR, specs, and calm mind are amazing and zoromega ban etc

sorry no time to explain n_n
 
I think that rhyperior should move down to A+.
Sure, it's a good stealth rocker that can be slapped on just about any team, but it's fairly predictable. Also, it gets walled by a bunch of mons like virizion, gligar, and alomomola to a certain extent. While it does have a good amount of resistances and bulk, it can't handle a lot of powerful attackers in the tier such as Hitmonlee, SD Virizion and cobalion to an extent, jolteon (hp water or grass), doublade unless it runs speed evs, etc. Adding on to the typing thing, yeah having one immunity and solid amount of resistances is great, but having two 4x weaknesses sucks when grass and water types are everywhere in the tier.

Edit: also agreeing that reuniclus should move up, although it does face serious competition from delphox and meloetta for a psychic type. It does perform much better on bulky teams, while the other two are better on offensive inclined ones.
 
Rhyperior: I want to call into question Rhyperior's status as the "best Stealth Rock user in RU". I know I'm probably a little biased with this because of my extreme experience / love for it, but I honestly feel Cobalion is the best Stealth Rock setter in the tier. It still has enough physical bulk to get by with, a better defensive typing, and a MUCH higher Speed stat. What's more is that Cobalion isn't limited to a single set that can utilize Rocks. Its standard SD set can slap it on for the final slot and its a staple on Cobalion's support set. If anything, I'd say Rhyperior's weaknesses to Grass, Water, Fighting, and Ground all hurt it pretty badly. I know Cobalion also has the same issues with Fighting- and Ground-types, but it at least has the Speed to Volt Switch out of Fighting-types and CC a Ground-type should it be weakened already. Now, that's not to say that Rhyperior isn't a great Stealth Rock user, as it certainly is. However, I just don't think it's the best one in the current metagame due to its super low Speed, lackluster special bulk, and inability to prevent opposing hazard users from setting up (something Support Cobalion easily does) With this being said, I do feel Rhyperior could drop to A+ rank. It's still a fantastic Pokemon that can hit super hard with a CB set or reliably get up Rocks more than once in a match, but most of what it walls runs coverage for it now (think Jolteon, Delphox, Moltres, etc.) and it's unable to defend itself much against top threats like Hitmonlee, Alomomola, Virizion, and Gligar.
 
boltsandbombers said:
I think that rhyperior should move down to A+.
Sure, it's a good stealth rocker that can be slapped on just about any team, but it's fairly predictable. Also, it gets walled by a bunch of mons like virizion, gligar, and alomomola to a certain extent. While it does have a good amount of resistances and bulk, it can't handle a lot of powerful attackers in the tier such as Hitmonlee, SD Virizion and cobalion to an extent, jolteon (hp water or grass), doublade unless it runs speed evs, etc. Adding on to the typing thing, yeah having one immunity and solid amount of resistances is great, but having two 4x weaknesses sucks when grass and water types are everywhere in the tier.

Edit: also agreeing that reuniclus should move up, although it does face serious competition from delphox and meloetta for a psychic type. It does perform much better on bulky teams, while the other two are better on offensive inclined ones.
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i'm not sure where rhyperior should be ranked, but there's a few things here that i think need to be corrected. predictability isn't a bad thing unless its easy to exploit. while taunt will prevent rocks, rhyperior beats the more common taunters anyway(cobalion, drapion, explosion qwilfish off the top of my head). also while rhyp is almost always seen with rocks it can also be an underrated and strong wallbreaker with a choice band, which nails all the mons you say that wall it bar knock off gligar and alomomola

again im impartial right now but wanted to get that out of the way

edit: i love lowercase, with all the arguments drop rhyp to a+ imo
 
While I think that Rhyperior might deserve S rank as it basically soft checks at worst 90% of the Physical attackers/some special attackers thanks to its enormous mixed bulk that also lets it set up Stealth Rock multiple times throughout the game (Gligar is the only defogger who can consistently switch into it) the fact that it is quite easy to take advantage of even by the Pokemon it is supposed to wall (and I don't include Grass Knot Delphox as that has been around forever) like Moltres and Jolteon (who run HP grass/water commonly) and the fact that the most popular physical attackers at the moment right now have ways around it (Cobalion, Virizion, Sharpedo, Doublade somewhat) make Rhyperior less effective than it was in the past (not to mention that against Stall teams the only thing it can do is give free Wishes to Alomomola). In my opinion Rhyperior has too many flaws compared to the other Pokemon in the S rank and while it is still a premier force that needs to be accounted for while teambuilding I think it deserves to drop to A+
 
Heliolisk - HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG so despite my posts that never had their points refuted and the support I got on them Heliolisk was moved down anyway cuz of some private conversation between ppl who prolly just said 'HP Water Jolteon xDDD'.

So first lemme just c/p over what I said from the last thread:

Stats - Advantage Jolteon in every department, though Speed is the only one of real relevance.

Movepool - Major advantage Heliolisk.

Abilities - Team dependent, but in general I'd say Dry Skin is more useful.

Normal typing - Allows it to become a great Doublade + Mismag Check, although leaves it threatened by Lee and Gurdurr's Mach Punch.

So where people gained the notion of Heliolisk being 'completely outclassed' by Jolteon is beyond me, Heliolisk can find itself being just as, if not more effective than Jolteon in a myriad of match ups and scenarios, so it should definitely stay at least B.

Another thing I want to touch on is that due to Heliolisk being able to deal with Ground types so much more effectively, it allows you to play very safely, you can click Volt Switch generally for free and if their opponent switches to Rhyperior/Gligar then you can OHKO next turn with Grass Knot/HP Ice, whereas with Jolteon you are forced to predict the switch since HP Water only 2HKO's either, and they can obviously OHKO you back with EQ.

Also yh could prolly swap positions of Mega Snow and Mega Nette.
 
Yeah Afro Smash has basically gone over the same points multiple times and no one has really been able to refute them. Not much left for me to say on the difference between Jolteon and Heliolisk but I definitely agree with it moving up to at least B.

Also agreeing with the Mega Snow and Mega Nette switch, Abomasnow is far better than Banette due to it's ability to trouble slow and defensive teams (that are alot more common now) with it's Mixed sets and Offense with the SD set.
 
Alright gonna update

Abomasnow-Mega up to A rank
Banette-Mega down to A- rank
Rhyperior down to A+ rank
Heliolisk up to B rank
Pelipper up to C rank

I'm still unsure on moving Tangrowth down and adding Volbeat, so i'll leave that up to you guys to discuss further, i made a post myself on why i wasnt sure about adding it on this page if you wanna read it =). If you disagree with any of the changes made here, feel free to speak up!

Also, Heliolisk is staying B rank until someone can successfully refute Afro Smash's points
 
It's kind of hard to refute the Heliolisk argument when it was based on misconstrued terms to begin with. It seems that moving Heliolisk up was mostly a response to Jolteon being in A- rank, thus Heliolisk should only be ranked two pegs lower as opposed to three, to which I agree with. However, the only Jolteon set that can be compared to Heliolisk' is the Choice Specs/Life Orb set, and I think that particular Jolteon set is only B+/B rank tbh. What really pushes Jolteon to A- rank is amazing utility offered by SubPass. It gives you the added advantage of heightening the prowess of your given offensive win condition by allowing Jolteon to lure in Pokemon that can't break its partner's Substitute, thus giving them free set up. In addition, Jolteon is also commonly seen using Wish on this set, which quite a few Pokemon, particularly Doublade, perform the ability to check certain Pokemon (and spinblock in this case) with greater ease as a result of not having to worry about being worn down, and there's also Heal Bell, yes Heal Bell, which is kinda cute on semi-stall if you want an offensive mon that can clean up late-game, keep up momentum, and also patch up holes in your given defensive core, one such is Alomomola + Registeel. And lastly, outspeeding and KOing Dugtrio as opposed to being trapped and KOed is pretty huge when it's kinda of everywhere at the moment. Heliolisk's main to advantages versus Specs and LO Jolteon are its ability to better beat Ground-type and be a Doublade check, although Jolteon isn't exactly helpless against Ground-types for the most part. So the real, more relevant advantage towards using Heliolisk is because it can check Doublade rather well, which is a good point indeed. See: why Pyroar has a rank. When I moved Heliolisk down in the reforming of the ranks, I had the above taken into account, and I stand by that because I think the points I considered for moving it down still apply. At most, Heliolisk should be B-. Moving it up this early was pretty hasty; on the other hand, I'm not gonna cry about it considering this list is more or less a reference sheet and the differences between B/B- and the respective +/-s aren't distinguished all too well and based mostly on subjective opinions anyway. n_n
 
Hey, what does everyone think of moving Gastrodon down to B- rank? Gastrodon isn't a bad Pokemon by any means, but i feel that it's a little bit overshadowed in the current meta.

When it comes to being a bulky Water-type, Slowking and Alomomola often outcompete Gastrodon when it comes to a teamslot tbh, and tbh whenever i've considered Gastrodon for a team in the role of a bulky Water i've ended up using one of these instead. Slowking is by FAR the better Moltres/Delphox check thanks to its excellent Regenerator ability and the fact that it's not 4x weak to Hidden Power Grass/Grass Knot, which are quite common on those two threats, while Alomomola serves as the better physically defensive bulky water most of the time, taking pretty much any physical hit with ease, and providing more support for its team than Gastrodon can because of its absolutely massive Wishes.

As an offensive Water-type, Slowking still outcompetes Gastrodon most of the time imo thanks to its great coverage and Regenerator. As well as Clawitzer, who's MUCH better at wallbreaking.

When it comes to being a Bulky Ground-type, Gastrodon has a bit of an easier time, but it still recieves quite a bit of competition from Rhyperior and the rare Seismitoad because of their ability to provide Stealth Rock for a team, something Gastrodon sadly can't do. Seismitoad even has the same type interactions as Gastrodon, further pushing it out of the spotlight ;-;.

As i mentioned before, Gastrodon isn't really a bad Pokemon and definitely has a place in the metagame: it's one of the best Sharpedo and Doublade checks around, Clear Smog is a cool weapon to have against Calm Mind Reuniclus for more defensive teams, and it can actually be quite a pain to take out if you're unprepared for it! But i feel like its a bit more niche than its other Water- and Ground-type bretheren in the tier, as well as quite a bit harder to effectively fit on a team, and i think that could warrant it moving down from B rank to B- rank, what do you guys think?

For all of you who played BW2 RU, think of Gastrodon as a bit like Quagsire back then, not really a terrible Pokemon by any means, but its specific set of niche traits made it a bit more well.... niche than its competition, and it found itself quite a bit harder to fit on teams because of that.
 
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Yeah, I certainly agree with moving Gastrodon down to B- rank.
Cant really argue against any of your points there, all very valid :P
 
I honestly think you should keep Gastrodon in place right now, as while it probably is worth of B-, I also feel it's an extremely underused Pokemon among more experienced players as far as I recall, and while that can be a reason to move it down, I interpret that as a reason to test it more before moving it down, if it actually deserves so. I've seen people using more offensive variants of it and it doesn't seem outclassed by other Water-types right off the bat at it.
 
While Gastrodon isn't directly outclassed by any of the water types in the tier (while it lacks Stealth Rock and Knock Off it has recover over seismitoad and while it lacks raw physical bulk it has Clear Smog, volt switch immunity, and recover over mola) i feel like it is a bit harder to fit it into teams.
Most teams have their bulky Ground-types setting up Stealth Rock and Gastrodon can create synergy problems and/or like Alomomola or Slowking more as a bulky water if they have other ways already to deal with Electric types and like their specialized defensive stats more. The offensive set also faces HUGE competition from Clawitzer and only really has Recover over it :/
Personally i feel like Gastrodon would be more fit in Lanturn's ranking as they are equally "niche" that can fulfill their role very well (being Water types that can check Electrics and have some cool moves (clear smog, Heal Bell) over the two "bigs" Slowking and Alomomola. B-
 
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