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XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

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S Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

Honchkrow fits this description to the dot. Right now This bird is insane and theres not much you can do to stop it outside of out mindgaming the opponent with sub or something. To me that isn't really reliable in the slightest. Its checks are easily worn down throughout the match, and Its sorta along the lines of Crocune exept there are no hard counters to help you. It may be slow, but sucker punch helps it alot. Not to mention the new Klefki which if you so choose can paralyze the things that outspeed it and force it to use sucker punch (Bar mega manetric who is ko'd anyway)

TL;DR: Honchkrow may be just a little too overwhelming with its amazing ability, good revenge Killing/ Trapping ability, reliable recovery and Great Priority.
Honchkrow for S ranking
 
Before I say my decision on Mega Houndoom and Klefki, I just want to clarify that I read every single post on this discussion. There were good points and bad points. However, the most salient comments were those that stressed Houndoom's ability to break, but lack of defenses and Stealth Rock weakness. There is no doubt Houndoom excels in what it does. But S rank is devoted to Pokemon that have few, if any, flaws. Houndoom clearly does. In regards to Klefki, there is a lot of potential with the Calm Mind and Screen/Spike/Thunder Wave sets, but it's just far too early to tell if it's ban worthy or a pile of junk. I'm 90% certain that someone will eventually come up with an annoying, broken combination with Klefki and some other pair, but until that day, I can't give it anything more than A- rank.

In summary, Klefki is moving down to A- rank, while Mega Houndoom is moving down to A+ rank.

The next two up for discussion are Slowbro and Mew. Lastly, I want to stress one thing. Arguments that contain placement of other Pokemon should only be made if we've already discussed them. For example, if you're arguing that Slowbro should be S rank because it's a lot better than Mega Houndoom (which is A+ rank), then that is fine. But do not do that comparison with a Pokemon that we haven't officially ranked yet with discussion.
 
Limitless said:
Lastly, I want to stress one thing. Arguments that contain placement of other Pokemon should only be made if we've already discussed them. For example, if you're arguing that Slowbro should be S rank because it's a lot better than Mega Houndoom (which is A+ rank), then that is fine. But do not do that comparison with a Pokemon that we haven't officially ranked yet with discussion.
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I don't want to sound like an idiot but does this mean we can't compare Slowbro with Suicune both who are water types and are S rank?
 
Alright, I'll start.

Mew should obviously stay where it is, as it's probably the best mon in the tier (and ignored by a large portion of people.) First off, Mew is bar none the most versatile pokemon in the entire tier, and nearly every single job it does it excels at. It's insanely difficult to predict what set your opponent is using, since it has so many viable sets. If your Crobat is out and you switch out to, say, Krookodile, predicting a psychic move from the NP/SD set, you get a Will-O-Wisp to the face from the stallbreaker set. It's also a pretty good Baton Passer, as it has access to nearly every single boosting move save for Tail Glow, Cotton Guard, and Quiver Dance ;;.

Another reason why Mew is so good is the fact that it can shut down nearly anything in the tier with its stallbreaker set. It has great defensive stats across the board, and can cripple nearly any physical attacker with Will-O. It also gains access to Knock Off, which also fucks over Fire type mons trying to switch in on Will-o and other mons. It also outspeeds pretty every single cleric in the tier (except for fucking Miltank who probably gets para'd by its own Body Slam due to Synchronize lmoa), and can use Taunt to prevent them from healing their status. The only foolproof stop to this set is Mega Houndoom.

The last reason why it's so good, and probably the main reason as to why it's used lol, is the fact that it's a full on counter to the Nidos, who are the biggest threats to stall in the tier, as it can take both STABs with ease, and KO with PSyshock, or whittle it down with Knock Off + Will-O.

All in all, Mew is definitely underrated and should stay S rank imo.
 
I think Mew should be A+ or A ranked. There is no doubt in my mind that Mew can perform a multitude of roles. The only Pokemon in the tier that can run as many effective sets as Mew is Smeargle; however, that being said, Mew's roles are often done better by other Pokes. For example, if one were to want a Nasty Plot Sweeper, one could use Celebi or Houndoom. If one were to run an SD sweeper, Cobalion, Virizion, and Mega Absol could do that.

Just because Mew has a bunch of different sets does not automatically equate to being the best Mon. The most popular set I have seen is the Defog Specially Defensive set with WoW and Roost. It can take many unboosted Special hits and retaliate back with WoW or STAB Psychic. That set is the one best run.

The most scary thing about Mew is finding out what the set is initially. If it turns out to be a Baton Pass set, if you lack a phaser, you're basically done since nothing can stop it from accumulating boosts thanks for its bulk. But once the set is found out, it is much easier to deal with.

In addition, I would say Mew's typing and Ability are not great assets. Psychic is a decent defensive typing at best, mostly because Knock Off is being spammed everywhere. It lacks any useful resistances, other than fighting and psychic, and its ability is not nearly as useful as Umbreon having Syncro due to Mew not running Heal Bell/AT.

Mew does the job right, but I do not think it does not perform it as effectively as some of the other S-ranked mons, such as Suicine. A team that does not have an answer to Suicine will almost always be beaten if played correctly. This is at the fault of Mew because of its stats. Base 100 is well-rounded, but that is exactly the issue. It doesn't get Seed Flare like Shaymin or V-Create like Victini. In most cases, a Pokemon with trade-offs for a gain will be more effective in specific roles as opposed to Mon's that have well rounded stats. That's why SubCM Raikou was such a threat last gen. It had the speed, SPA, and just enough bulk to its job well. Likewise, Suicine has great bulk and typing, so it is a great asset and a large reason why CroCune is such a huge issue for most teams.

Overall, I think Mew is a great Pokemon, and it definitely remains one of the top mons in UU; however, I just do not see it being S-ranked material. I am willing to bet most people do not look at Mew in fear as opposed to something like Mienshao, Victini, or Suicine.

I vote Mew for A/A+ ranked.
 
Won't comment on Slowbro as I don't feel I have enough experience using it to place it in one rank or another. However, I do have a fair bit of experience with Mew.

Ok, so Mew is a really versatile Pokemon. Always has been. Probably always will be. While there are a fair few Defog users in the tier, Mew is the best, hands down. It has reliable recovery, unlike Empoleon, and it is able to switch into Stealth Rock without many problems, unlike Crobat. Now, I know what you're probably thinking. "Eon, Flygon is even more resilient to entry hazards and it has Roost for recovery and the same base Speed as Mew. What gives?". Well, Mew's access to Will-O-Wisp and ability to straight counter / hard check one of the tier's top wallbreakers, Nidoking. Flygon can't do this considering Nidoking has access to Ice Beam, thus forcing Flygon to run enough Speed EVs to outpace it to avoid being trashed before a Defog or EQ. As for Mew, it can easily run a SpDef set to handle Nidoking and run Will-O-Wisp to burn physical attackers hoping to pray on its uninvested Defense. The fun doesn't end there. Mew can run a faster Defog set if it's being used on a more offensive team so it can outpace some threats and either hit them with Will-O-Wisp or push damage with Psychic.
Outside of the Defog role, Mew is capable of setting up Rocks reliably with very similar builds to the Defog set. Nasty Plot and Swords Dance sets are perfectly viable, and although Mew may not be able to run them for outright sweeping, it can utilize them with Baton Pass, thus allowing Mew to deal as much damage as it can, and then Baton Pass to a teammate once it gets met with a check or counter. However, this is where the good news ends imo. Knock Off is a thing, and this prevents Mew from outright countering the Fighting-types it wants to switch into, especially Mienshao who can use Knock Off or U-turn to put Mew in a bad spot. Mew can resist Psychic, but unless the Psychic-type in question is physical (Metagross or Victini) it doesn't have a real way to threaten said Psychic-types unless it's running an offensive set, in which case, it doesn't want to switch into many attacks. And Will-O-Wisp doesn't even do anything to Victini. Mew is definitely something you should be prepared to see a lot of, and justifiably so. It can fulfill many roles quite effectively. However, Mew has a hard time in a metagame infested by Dark-types, and can sometimes find itself powerless against some extremely potent threats such as Mega Houndoom and Victini, which is just terrible for a defensive Pokemon. I feel that Mew should be A+. While it can counter some very serious threats in Nidoking, Nidoqueen, and Roserade, it can have quite the difficult time against equally dangerous threats like Mega-Houndoom, Victini, and Darmanitan.
 
I think Slowbro belongs to S ranking, why?
  • Slowbro supreme physical bulk allows it to take almost any physical hit, even some super effective ones.
  • Slowbro has reliable recovery an asset many bulky waters walls lack such as Suicune and Empoleon.
  • Slowbro's uniquie typing resists both Fighting and Fire type attacks
  • Slowbro is also a very versatile pokemon: he can perform a CM bulky sweeper like Suicune and Klefki and win CM wars thanks to psyshock. He can also use an assault vest set or choice specs
  • Finally the fire types on the tier allow Slowbro a lot of switches and unlike Suicune, Slowbro just needs to switch out to recover health instead of wasting valuable turns in resting and burning sleep turns with sleep talk.
I think this covers most of my thought about slowbro, of course he is weak to common physical attacks such as knock off and U-turn but Slowbro requires little suport from his teamates in order to get his job done.
 
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Slowbro- Suicune with Psyshock, Slack off, Knock off weakness and worse stats.

Mew- Knows any and every TM. Stealth Rock, Baton Pass, Rock Polish, Calm Mind, Sword Dance, Dig, Aura Sphere, go nuts.


Arguing over Klefki is a lot more interesting.
 
Petrico94 said:
Slowbro- Suicune with Psyshock, Slack off, Knock off weakness and worse stats.
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Excuse me? You forgot better ability, better movepool and arguably better typing, also high ladder teams prepare more for Crocune than for Slowbro.
 
Mew2 said:
Excuse me? You forgot better ability, better movepool and arguably better typing, also high ladder teams prepare more for Crocune than for Slowbro.
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I've pretty much only seen Scald+psy on Slowbro with the rest being support moves, it has a nice movepool but it doesn't care for it. They're both water types, there is no argument psychic just adds weaknesses to ghost dark and U-turn and resists fighting, they're both special attack based. What beats Suicune's 100/115/115 rest calm mind can beat 95/110/80 slack off (regenerator doesn't cure the poison).
 
I'd vote Slowbro for S-Rank. It's physical bulk is amazing and is arguably the best check to the physical fire-types roaming the tier, especially thanks to Regenerator and Slack-Off making it very hard to wear down. Paired with a quite threatening SpAtk of 100, and a movepool to abuse it, it is also no offensive slouch. With access to Scald, Surf, Psyshock, Pyschic, Shadow Ball, Ice Beam and even Flamethrower and Fire Blast (like wtf?) Slowbro can even pull of threatening Assault Vest set as a mixed wall while maintaining recovery. With this it can hit almost all Grass-types on the switch making them not as easy to switch in and force Slowbro out. In fact its main weakness is only really to Electric-types which it struggles to threaten, but a good player can almost always be able to wear down said electric type and keep Slowbro healthy. This thing doesn't even need to worry too much about Knock Offs or U-Turns either. I mean it can even tank a Megahorn if needed:
252 Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 258-306 (65.4 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The bulk which it provides makes its secondary typing have more pros than draw backs. Slowbro can also run Toxic and is a great user of it, crippling switch ins. And lastly Slowbro can run a CM set really well, while being able to heavily influence the early game with Regenerator. And so I feel that Slowbros flaws are greatly mitigated enough for it to be considered S-Rank.

Mew on the other hand is a tough one, but is definitely A+ or S-Rank. All of its sets it can be used to great success with its amazing movepool and its good across the board stats. It can generally tank all of the moves which Mew is weak to with its natural bulk or with the help of WoW, mitigating its otherwise average typing. Synchronise is also a great ability which helps to avoid status, especially Toxic which it otherwise hates. It does a very consistent job, but does tend to struggle a bit with Pokemon who are obscenely powerful off the bat who can break through Mew, especially a lot of the Fire-types running around. Otherwise I haven't found that Mew struggles too much with the Dark-types that are left in the tier. So I am kinda undecided of whether Mew should be A+ Rank or S-Rank, but certainly not lower.
 
So far I'm really not convinced by the arguments of those who would place Mew lower than S Rank. From what I can tell so far the main points against such a placement have been :
- pure Psychic-typing puts it at a disadvantage against the Dark-types in the tier, as well as Knock Off spam in general
- if SD or NP, lacks the raw stats and spammable STABs to effectively sweep
- free switch-in for dangerous Fire-type mons

What I don't really get is exactly how much you guys expect Mew to do lol. Obviously the SpDef set is going to struggle against extremely powerful physical wallbreakers, although by no means do Tini and Darm get a free switch-in considering they are, if not crippled, at least severely hampered by Knock Off (losing a Scarf is obviously a big deal, Victini often reveals its set through its item...). The Dark-types in the tier are really the problem with the SpDef set, considering that Mega Absol and Houndoom both get in for free (however Krook can't switch in and Honchkrow literally never beats you lol) and you don't want to give those guys a window to set up.
This replay shows both how much work the SpDef set can do against a team that relies on Trick Specs Tini to cripple it, and on the other hand how much of a liability it becomes on a team already somewhat weak to Mega Houndoom.
The argument that Mew can't check Fighting-types well is pretty dumb considering the SpDef set shouldn't even run a STAB move so why are you switching into Mienshao or god forbid Heracross in the first place.

So yea Mew is "crippled" because it lets two very dangerous mons in for free. Now when you consider that depending on what your team needs Mew is hands down the best Defogger in the tier and one of the best SR setters (fuckin M-Blastoise), I would say that's a pretty good trade. Tbh whenever I use an SR weak mon (read Vivi or a Scarf Fire-type or whatever) on a team that isn't HO I nearly always find myself resorting to Mew as even very reliable Rapid Spinners like Mega Blastoise won't get rid of hazards multiple times during the match against a good opponent. Meanwhile Mew gets free turns against 80% of the special attackers in the tier, beats all the hazard setters except like Galvantula and can keep itself healthy at all times during the match. The utility it brings to the table is simply phenomenal - it's not just a mon you reluctantly add to your team cause you need hazard control as it is literally never dead weight.


Now I have less experience with the offensive sets as I've only tried SD myself this gen. However offensive Mew is still an amazing mon on quick pass teams as well as a great late-game sweeper. While it faces some competition from Celebi it has a much much better offensive movepool as well as an arguably more advantageous typing. The ability to keep itself healthy with Drain Punch / Giga Drain is pretty great and if using SD it becomes a bit harder to rk considering its great bulk and Sucker Punch :
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mew Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mienshao: 156-185 (57.5 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mew Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 334-394 (95.1 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Honestly it's just so easy to set up with Mew that it doesn't really matter if you can't sweep half the tier like Mega Houndoom. I've been meaning to use an offensive CM set as it was killer last gen and it sets up all over Florges.

tl;dr : Mew definitely deserves S Rank
 
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Mew is basically the tier's best defogger, the best counter to the nidos that exists and a pretty good stall breaker in just 1 of its movesets. It can also pull off sd or np sets to function as a wall breaker/late game sweeper, or pass those boosts to mons like mega-aero or mega-manectric to sweep through slower teams. Easy S-Rank.
 
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 156-185 (38.6 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Mew Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 246-290 (80.9 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

turn 1, Mew switches in and takes damage

turn 2: Mew is left with very little health and Nidoking survives

turn 3: Mew loses

Mew can not invest enough to OHKO Nidoking without getting 2HKOd

220 SpA Mew Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 306-360 (100.6 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

not happening ^

If you decide to run 136 EVs to outspeed Nidoking,

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Mew: 175-208 (43.3 - 51.4%) -- 63.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

While the closest thing there is, it's not exactly a perfect counter.
 
dbzmariogeno said:
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 156-185 (38.6 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Mew Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 246-290 (80.9 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

turn 1, Mew switches in and takes damage

turn 2: Mew is left with very little health and Nidoking survives

turn 3: Mew loses

Mew can not invest enough to OHKO Nidoking without getting 2HKOd

220 SpA Mew Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 306-360 (100.6 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

not happening ^

If you decide to run 136 EVs to outspeed Nidoking,

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Mew: 175-208 (43.3 - 51.4%) -- 63.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

While the closest thing there is, it's not exactly a perfect counter.
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Dude Nidoking almost always runs a speed increasing nature to speed tie with the other base 85s that populate the tier so I don't think your calcs are that accurate
 
Petrico94 said:
I've pretty much only seen Scald+psy on Slowbro with the rest being support moves, it has a nice movepool but it doesn't care for it. They're both water types, there is no argument psychic just adds weaknesses to ghost dark and U-turn and resists fighting, they're both special attack based. What beats Suicune's 100/115/115 rest calm mind can beat 95/110/80 slack off (regenerator doesn't cure the poison).
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You completely forgot about the sheer versatility of Slowbro. While it is no Mew in diversity, compared to Suicune, another top tier threat and bulky water that gives it competition, Slowbro definitely wins in the surprise department. Suicune can only run CM sets, either CM + 3 Attacks or CroCune set, but only the latter is widely considered as its S-Rank set and with good reasons. Slowbro, having passive recovery in Regenerator, a slightly higher SpA, wide movepool with Grass Knot, Ice Beam and Fire Blast as well as good defensive stats distribution means that it can run an AV pivot set effectively. Its access to Scald, Toxic and T-wave makes it capable of crippling opponents with a variety of status. CMBro usually win in CM wars thanks to STAB Psyshock hitting the unboosted side. Oh yeah, Psychic typing means that most bulky water checks cannot get a free switch into Slowbro due to their secondary Poison typing e.g. Toxicroak Amoongus and Roserade, not that Grass types/Dry Skin users would enjoy switching into an Ice Beam or Fire Blast from Slowbro. Thanks to its huge defensive stats and Regenerator, it does not mind getting Knocked Off as much as most other Psychic types and Pursuit does not hurt it as much thanks to Regenerator healing. The Fighting resist is a godsend meaning Mienshao cannot smack it to death with HJK. It is definitely worthy of its S rank.
 
dbzmariogeno said:
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 156-185 (38.6 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Mew Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 246-290 (80.9 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

turn 1, Mew switches in and takes damage

turn 2: Mew is left with very little health and Nidoking survives

turn 3: Mew loses

Mew can not invest enough to OHKO Nidoking without getting 2HKOd

220 SpA Mew Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 306-360 (100.6 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

not happening ^

If you decide to run 136 EVs to outspeed Nidoking,

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Mew: 175-208 (43.3 - 51.4%) -- 63.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

While the closest thing there is, it's not exactly a perfect counter.
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Isn't it possible for Mew to just use Roost and heal off all the damage from Sludge Wave? Once Mew is healthy enough, he can proceed to do the 2HKO with Psyshock/Psychic. Nidoking commonly running Timid is a plus for Mew as he isn't screwed as badly in the event of a random crit.
 
dbzmariogeno said:
You still get 3HKOd and outsped while not being able to OHKO back, which was the main point.
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But mew can keep roosting and getting its way to full, and it has enough pp to do that twice for the kill. Sludge wave also cannot poison due to sheer force, so mew can easily stall it
 
You act like hazards will never be up/Mew will always be at 100%, which is just not true. The slightest amount of prior damage means Mew loses.
 
dbzmariogeno said:
You act like hazards will never be up/Mew will always be at 100%, which is just not true. The slightest amount of prior damage means Mew loses.
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Mew isn't going to lose unless nidoking crits on one of his attacks. Similarly, one layer of Spikes on Nidoking's side also means that Nidoking faces a good chance of death by Psychic too.
 
dbzmariogeno , yeah, you don't simply try to attack Nidoking when you switch Mew in. You just stall it with Roost / Soft-Boiled / whatever recovery move you use until you're out of 2HKO range of Sludge Wave / Earth Power. If Nidoking switches out at any point, congratulations, you're still at or near full health to take it on again later!

Jellied Eels , there's one thing that really rubbed me the wrong way: "the SpDef set shouldn't even run a STAB move" ok, so what are you running in that last slot? I'd be running a STAB move so I can kill off the Nidos when the time comes for that (last Pokemon scenario, Nido being the last special threat on the opposing team, etc.) I'm not saying Mew is terrible. For the most part, its pros far outweigh the cons I mentioned. However, to be an S-rank Pokemon, a Pokemon should not require much, if any support at all. However, you need something for virtually every Fire-type in the tier. Mega-Doom and Victini are just the two easiest things to bring in on Mew. Virtually every Fire-type in the tier can switch in on Mew without many problems, and I'm sorry to say that there isn't a "one size fits all" check to every Fire-type in the tier. Now, does this make Mew a bad Pokemon? Heavens no. It's a very solid Pokemon and fills in some very, very important roles in UU. But there's a difference between S-rank and A-rank. Mew has a habit of giving free turns to highly dangerous threats from both ends of the spectrum, but that doesn't stop Mew from doing what it's supposed to do most of the time. That's why I feel it should be A+ rank. Great mon, but it does give some very serious threats free turns rather consistently.
 
Well, although I'm not sure if it's the best set, the standard SpDef Mew ran WoW / Roost / Knock off / one of Taunt | Defog | SR (I like Taunt better but it depends on your team obviously), with enough Speed to burn Honch. That makes it much more annoying, but it's complete bait for Guts Heracross and Mega Doom still comes in for free—I guess Knocking Off Victini and Candle on the switch kinda makes up for that.

A well played Nidoking (or fast Nidoqueen, but who runs that besides me) should be able to take Mew into 2HKO range because it outspeeds and can hit it before Roost, but I think that's more an issue of teambuilding than anything else, having something that can continuously force Mew out so it takes hazard damage. That said, the Mew player should have another mon that can check Nidos so as to not get easily overwhelmed by double switches, etc.

I've been hearing good things about Colbur SD Mew, being very hard to wear down due to Drain Punch, and I guess Tanga Berry is also an option to lure in Heras. The ability to run different great sets with different checks to them alone makes Mew one of the best mons in the tier, but versatility alone wouldn't make it S rank if it wasn't for its survivability. It's still S rank in my eyes, but if you wanna drop it suit yourself...
 
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