XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

[Nysyr]

Mega Banette is weird; it's never really dead weight, but at the same time never really carries a team. Despite knockoff not being boosted vs it, it can't switch into the fighting types that carry it at all. On top of this is his ability not activating turn one, at the same time putting him in the position of needing to run protect or priority if he wants to mega evolve and be effective. Will-O and Destiny Bond are locked in, so this means your 2 move coverage is Either Ghost Dark or Dark Dark (Sucker, Shadow Sneak, Shadow Claw, or Knock Off). Talk about 6mss.

The only real fit for mega Banette on any team is one that is pretty much completed with just 5 mons lol. Because he can almost always force a 5 v 5 situation (although can't pick what goes down) while never truely being dead weight I'm going to say B- rank, but even that almost feels too generous.

Edited for logic x.x

 

[effyouzion]

Banette just doesn't do enough. Sableye spreads burns more easily, and his destiny bond is painfully predictable. It's too easy to switch to your least valuable mon and sacrifice it if you have to. No way he's as useful as Dugtrio, another B- mon. I'd put mega Banette at C if he didn't use a mega. Since he takes up your mega slot... D

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Banette also sucks pretty much, but it still has a cool niche in Prankster D-bond. The main problem is that it is outclassed. Sableye does everything else like 10 times better. It has better bulk, better typing, STAB foul play, Recover and is not being weak to Knock off. Despite Knock off's damage reduction banette cannot switch in on any fighting type in the tier thanks to it. Banette also has a 4MSS worse than gen 5 metagross! It needs to have D-bond and Taunt for niche, it wants Protect to avoid being complete Trash first round, Will-o-wisp for breaking physical attackers, alongside Knock off, Shadow sneak, Sucker punch, Shadow claw and Gunk shot for offensive presence. It is hard to fit on teams, not only is ghost a shitty typing, but Sableye does almost same, just better than Banette. Chandy is a way better offensive ghost thanks to its massive sp.atk and secondary typing. Hell, even Mismagius can do a better support job than Banette because of its speed and 2-move coverage. Drop Banette to C imo.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Yeah Articuno was kinda cool earlier in the metagame but right now it doesn't really have much going for it. It has a lot of issues, like that massive 4x Stealth Rock weakness; that Ice typing really hurts it a lot. It gets ravaged by some common Pokemon in the tier like Infernape and Victini, so it's not really that good of a defensive Pokemon. It's also rather weak as well. It does still have a small niche as something that can take on bulky Waters like Slowbro by virtue of Freeze-Dry and great special bulk, but outside of that it's not really worth using. C- is really the highest I can see it in; it's just not as viable as the Pokemon in C Rank, or at least the ones that deserve to be there.

Mega Banette is something I'm not really sure about. It doesn't have that much 4MSS; though Destiny Bond and one of either Taunt or Will-O-Wisp is non negotiable, and either Shadow Claw or Knock Off from there. It is rather annoying with its Prankster Wisp and D-bond, being rather annoying and is an ultimate revenge killer. It's pretty decent at being a nuisance that can get a free kill. That said, it's pretty hard to use because Prankster doesn't activate on the turn Banette mega evolves, and it's kind of frail. It has some cool niches though like Prankster D-bond. It's probably either B- or somewhere in C, idk where. But I think D is too harsh for it.

 

[Sage]

You guys are shitting on Banette a little too hard. I think it should go C+. It obviously competes with Sableye for a team slot, but Banette can pretty much stop any sweep singlehandedly, thanks to priority thunder wave and Destiny Bond. It also has a much higher attack stat than Sableye which lets it RK with Shadow Sneak, Sucker Punch, or hit hard with Shadow Claw. It's downsides however, are opportunity cost, it absolutely MUST fit your team because in 90% of the cases Sableye does the job as a prankster abuser better, and it takes your mega slot. However it still has a niche and is not god awful like E Vire and Dusknoir people. Mega Banette can't do much other than stop sweepers and spread some status, maybe killing things with shadow sneak note way, but it's enough to keep it out of what basically is the Do Not Use section.

EDIT: Articuno in C-, it has cool STABs (too bad about Hurrimiss), is very bulky and Freeze Dry is niche but interesting, however rocks rape him, and who the fuck is putting an Ice Flying type on their stall team. He doesn't synergize well with most defensive pokemon in UU, since his major resistances are Ground and Grass, not the best to work with. He can be usable but just barely.

 

[dingbat]

I forgot how Articuno even made this list in the first place .-. might as well drop it to D rank at best because IMO it's pretty garbo in this stage of the metagame. [Physical] Fire-types and Stealth Rocks, two things running amok in this metagame, already give Articuno tons of issues, and combine that with the fact that its speed tier renders it even worse off since there's also tons of other strong + faster Physical attackers that can easily smash through Articuno's weaker Physical defense. Yes, it may have gotten some new additions in Freeze Dry and Defog which p.much allows it to absolutely counter Swampert (maybe even Slowbro if you bother running an offensive Articuno set, but who does that nowadays), but I'm not even sure if that's enough to even keep it ranked at all, especially due to all the currently dominant shit that absolutely ruins Articuno.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Articuno hit the list during the era where shit like Infernape and Lucario weren't running everywhere in the tier. The ability to outstall bulky water types with Roost, Toxic, Pressure and Freeze Dry gives it a strong niche, as well as being a defogger/cleric. Unfortunately that's pretty much it, and honestly with Infernape/Lucario running around he's pretty much just a liability, so i'd suggest to just kick it off the list entirely (unranked)

idk really about banette but it's pretty much sableye that needs a mega slot and destiny bond... and is super frail to boot: at least sableye can take a beating if really needed and it has recover, crucial for a defensively-based mon. probably B-/C+ at best

 

[Limitless]

Articuno is moving down to D rank, while Mega Banette is moving down to C rank.

The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Cacturne and Braviary.

 

[Stoo]

cacturne is actually a kind of legit threat to some bulky teams, as it sets up all over and destroys things like alomomola, blissey, it even does like ~45% to aromatisse with LO adamant seed bomb, so it can definitely threaten bulky water + fairy cores which are pretty standard in balance.

havent seen it too much but when i have its been surprisingly dangerous, then again i dunno if it would be half as dangerous against offensive teams because it loses pretty hard to hydreigon, but definitely an underrated mon

 

[Sage]

I'd go Cacturne in C+/B-. Sub Swords Dance is definitely the set to run, since it sets up on stuff like Slowbro, Alomomola, etc. Sucker Punch mean his awful speed is mitigated, and then Seed Bomb hits walls hard. However, I wouldn't rank him higher since he has many flaws. First he is very matchup dependent, vs Hyper Offense he'll probably get 1 Sucker Punch unless your opponent sucks, which could bring a solid revenge kill, but hes pretty dead weight against HO. Secondly, while his typing is awesome offensively, its terrible defensively which with his poor bulk means anything that resists Sucker Punch is gonna be able to to hurt him since he's so slow. This is includes but not limited to Hydreigon, Lucario (Who also outprioritizes Cacturne), Heracross, etc. If he has a sub up its not a problem, but in a 1v1 hes gonna have a rough time. One thing i forgot to mention is that Water Absorb is pretty cool, he has no scald burns to worry about and can set up on Slowbro completely unless its Ice Beam(Go for the sub first lol). Not an awful mon, but not a great one.

 

[pokemonisfun]

I request Togetic to get a preliminary ranking because it is amazing Nasty passer to Yanmega and Scarf Exploud.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-150995878

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-150990971

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-151005279

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-151002140

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-151143501

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-151160833

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-151525607
It can also get to +6 on BLissey which is nice.

 

[RowDog]

Cacturne should not go any higher than C+. Although it excels at bashing up the bulky water-types in the tier (and even then it is granted they aren't running Ice Beam or in the case of Slowbro Fire Blast) it really does nothing else which someone else cannot do, and seriously outclass it. Its speed, horrible bulk and rubbish defensive typing means it fails to do anything much outside of its niche of taking out Bulky waters. It might have been a bit better if Cacturne got Knock Off or a reliable physical Dark STAB to abuse, as Sucker Punch is easily played around.
I'd think Cacturne is only deserving of C rank, maybe even C-, because what it does is incredibly niche imo.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Braviary is a somewhat cool mon to use in UU, the SubBU set is good against Stall teams, While Choice sets are good for Sticky web. It does however have competition from Tornadus, which is way more versitile. Tornadus has Better coverage, can go both mixed, physical and Special, has higher speed etc. The only things Braviary has over it is Higher atk, BB and 101 subs.

Braviary is hard to fit on a team, since it does not bring many notable resists (bar ground lol). It also has pretty limited switchins, but every bird has that lol. If you're not using a scarf set/Sticky web team, Braviary becomes complete deadweight against offensive/HO teams, and even with scarf it is still pretty slow compaired to most scarfers in current UU. I would put it in C+ since it can do work and is pretty strong, but is eclipsed by Tornadus and needs some support to work properly.

Idk about Cacturne, I never see it used and on paper it seems pretty mediocre.

 

[Wobblebuns]

Cacturne from B- ---> C

There isn't much use for Cacturne unless you really have a deep-seated hatred for Suicune and Slowbro bulky waters.

One problem lies in its specific niche, which can be easily fulfilled by much better and flexible Pokemon such as Shaymin and Roserade. That is even disregarding of the possibility for the bulky water for having a coverage/status move making Cacturne's role more unreliable. Unlike them (Shaymin and Roserade), Cacturne has horrible defenses and an even worse typing making it harder to find opportunities to come in and set up. That said, Cacturne, in general, can still be a nice asset especially if a favorable match-up opens up for it. It is utterly shat on against most offensive teams, but it can find much needed momentum against defensive teams where it can feed on their passive nature. However, that in itself tells much of another problem with Cacturne, on how reliant it is to match-up for it to be of any notable presence for the team.

All in all, I think Cacturne isn't that bad. The SubSD is quite deadly in fact, it's just that it's too inconsistent to perform at a good level.

 

[Limitless]

Cacturne and Braviary are staying in B- rank. Though you could certainly make your case that they should be in C+ rank, they have proved very valuable in the hands of skilled players. This was a fringe call, not that it mattered much.

The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Cofagrigus and Cresselia.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Hmmm.

I'm not super sure of what to think of Cofagrigus right now. It's not outstanding, but not terrible either from my experiences. The OTR set is still decently effective from my use of it, with NP+TR in conjunction with Shadow Ball and HP Fighting. It still switches into things like Mienshao, Heracross, Lucario rather well thanks to its typing and bulk, and can use such mons as setup bait. It does like the fact that Florges usage has basically died in lieu of Blissey and Aromatisse, and Cofag can take more advantage of Blissey than it could with Florges. Mega Houndoom dropping in usage is also a boon for the coffin, so this thing definitely got a bit better with the drops and the corresponding metagame shift. OTR is in general a nice bulky Ghost-type that can sweep decently well, and use its great physical bulk to nab setup opportunities. That said, the Knock Off buff definitely hurt the coffin, so Heracross and Mienshao have a way to wear at Cofagrigus unlike last gen. Hydreigon is also everywhere, and Coffy has no recovery so it's easy to wear down. I'm not sure where I'd want to put it. B- would be fine for it in my opinion, though if it moves a notch I wouldn't be opposed.

Cresselia is something I haven't used since the beginning of the generation, so I don't have much to say on it. The Knock Off buff definitely hurts it, like it did with the sarcophagus, but it has ridiculous bulk and takes on a lot of Pokemon like a champion thanks to its resilience and recovery. Moonblast is nice, so Cresselia isn't helpless against Hydreigon and has a way to do good damage to it. It also has a nice support movepool with Dual Screens, Toxic, or T-Wave so it can be decently annoying to face. I have no idea where to put it though, though I'd keep it in the ranks since it has some cool traits. But otherwise, I guess I really don't have a right to say much else lol.

Just my thoughts.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Cofagrigus is an incredible Pokemon. There are so few things that can stop it outside Blissey due to its extremely good bulk, perfect coverage, Trick Room and access to a great boosting move. I've used it as a win condition on several teams and it always pull its weight. The only real problem with it is that it faces competition for a ghost slot from Chandy (has greater immediate power) and Sableye (greater utility) - but outside that, it does its job very well. B or B+

 

[pokemonisfun]

Cofagrigus is an incredible Pokemon. There are so few things that can stop it outside Blissey due to its extremely good bulk, perfect coverage, Trick Room and access to a great boosting move. I've used it as a win condition on several teams and it always pull its weight. The only real problem with it is that it faces competition for a ghost slot from Chandy (has greater immediate power) and Sableye (greater utility) - but outside that, it does its job very well. B or B+

If it's as good as you seem to say it is why not higher rank? One problem with cofagrigus when I use it IMO is that it needs two turns of set up to sweep so generally it can't afford to switch on anything despite great bulk.

 

[FlareBlitz]

I don't like the A-rank inflation is why; I initially came up with these criteria precisely to avoid everything "good" going into A-rank. Cofag is good, but worse than chandelure in many situations (can't check tini, can't get past bliss, loses to florges, etc), which is its primary competitor for a team spot.

 

[Bad Ass]

i have used the toxic spikes cofag set (ts / shadow ball / wisp / whatever, physdef). it is a nice switchin to heracross (even though knock off exists), and puts up tspikes reliably because it threatens all defoggers with stab shadow ball or status. B- or C+

also RE: inflation. it's bound to happen but i think some mons are p overrated.

bliss should go down to A

mabsol + mienshao to A-

maggron + granbull + honchkrow to B+

 

[KM]

B+ for Cofag is stupid high imo. I only have limited experience with it, but that's because every time i've used it I've been massively disappointed. Knock Off buff is a massive fuck you, HP nerf made OTR even worse, and Toxic Spikes is cool in theory but incompatibility with Pain Split means that you're worn down so easily. It needs so much support and correct prediction not to get completely fucked over, and the times you'd want to put it on a team (full stall? i guess) are really niche. I'm leaning towards C+ at the highest.

re: bad ass's placements


bliss is insane and metagame-defining whether or not the teams she's most comfortable on (stall) are any good. Bliss is the reason that freaking nidoqueen is a dark horse, it's easy to fit into a team, does its job very effectively, and is not outclassed in any sense of the world. S rank the blob should stay.

m-absol isn't as fotm as it once was but it doesn't change the fact that it's still a really good mon. SDPass is probably its best set for offensive teams and it is really threatening. Mienshao i sort of agree with you on, as I believe that it's really just not as useful as hera / ape / luke on most teams.

m-aggron is sadly underrated imo, it's one of the only superbulky pokemon that's worth running due to its high damage output as well. v. reliable, very effective on the right teams. granbull is basically the same case, it's the single thing that's making stall or anything remotely defensive usable atm due to its ability to counter heracross, something that basically nothing else in the tier can do. honch i do agree with you though. I think priority and the popularity of mega amph / mega aero really fucked it over, and it's not nearly as effective as it was.

 

[Hot N Cold]

Some suggest:

Blissey to A+ Rank
A rank is prolly too low but S rank is slightly high, walls a big part of special threats + only fits on stall/balance + good utility mon.

Darmanitan to B+/B Rank
Honestly theres a few reasons to use Darmanitan over Victini/Infernape actually, extra speed + versatility + typing utility gives to them the edge totally, Darmanitan point is their muscle power but when you consider the rest of factors is totally outclassed.

 

[Limitless]

I moved Mienshao down to A- rank and Darmanitan down to B+ rank.

 

[Limitless]

Both Cofagrigus and Cresselia are moving down to C+ rank. I honestly think Cresselia could be decent in this metagame, but I haven't seen one Cresselia in all my games of UU. I guess that tells you something.

The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Dugtrio and Exploud.

 

[KM]

I refuse to pass judgment on Exploud purely because I have very little recent experience, but I know that hilarious has had a successful team with np pass togetic and exploud, so he might be qualified to.

However, I have used Duggy a LOT lately, and I have to say that its current ranking is criminally low considering its effect on the metagame. Although it appears initially to be nothing more than a cheap gimmick, the playstyle that Dugtrio singlehandedly creates is effective to say the least, and given that Dugtrio is necessary for this playstyle to exist, it needs to be ranked far higher.

I'll come at this from the basis of my most recent Dugtrio team which, while it may not be the best, sort of exemplifies the playstyle. I ran Baton Pass Umbreon and Volt Switch Forretress along with Banded Dugtrio to lure, trap, and eliminate threats like Banded Heracross, AV Entei, Lucario, Infernape, Band Victini, LO Darmanitan, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Jirachi, and of course the more niche situations of weakened offensive and defensive mons.

What this playstyle / core allowed me to do was to run mons that were traditionally countered or checked by these threats far more effectively. I made full use of Nasty Plot Infernape and Offensive QD Volc (when it was available), and I used these alongside Band Heracross (with Pursuit) to further decrease the list of defensive checks and counters and make a sweep all the more easy.

This team preformed very well. With a relatively generic and probably not-optimal team setup outside of the conceptual core, I managed to get close to 1700 with minimal effort. However, at the same time, Dugtrio is the clearest example of a limiting factor in terms of teambuilding. IF you want build an effective Dugtrio team, you have to be aware of the consequences of Offensive Trapping - you give up a ton of free turns for a multitude of dangerous sweepers to set up (complicated by the fact that Duggy's only real strong move is EQ, which has loads of counterplay). This confines using dugtrio effectively only to teams that are committed to the entire playstyle - teams that can both deter offensive sweepers through momentum and defensive checks and can take advantage of the defensive holes that Dugtrio creates by trapping certain mons.

Dugtrio creates a viable playstyle, and for this it should be ranked far higher than B-. However, its inability to just chuck on any team and the immense amount of support it needs to function correctly as well as the massive loss of momentum that trapping a Pokemon necessarily leads to keeps it out of the highest ranks. Due to its influence on the metagame, it should be given a rank of A-, or at least B+.