I know I probably shouldn't be the one saying this cause of that Shedinja shenanigan I caused in this thread, but... please tell us you're actually being serious.
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XY UU Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter Limitless
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I know I probably shouldn't be the one saying this cause of that Shedinja shenanigan I caused in this thread, but... please tell us you're actually being serious.
Fletchinder is good. I'll add it to B rank for now, but that's obviously going to change when we get to officially rank it.
you are nomming it but for what rank? also some proof of what masquerein can live to set up with intimidate and more than one line of why its viable would be nice.
Are you not intimidated?
Uhh I want to say S rank, but I guess I could settle for like C. I've been using it a bit and rose up to about 1500 with it (and corsola) on a p. shitty team. I'd post replays but the replay server has been down for a bit so I don't have any. :/ Basically any physical attacker without a STAB SE move won't really OHKO it, it performs its role decently enough to warrant a place imo
EDIT: Oh it gets Sticky Web which is useful I guess too
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Wow. This disussion fell apart right around Vivillon.
Metagross really should B. I'll elab on this point later but here's the generl gist. If you look at the current list of S and A rank mons, you'll see that Gross as the utter inability to deal with them. He cannot switch in safely to many of the threats and he can't hurt any of the defensive Pokemon up there bar Florges. You can argue that th variety of sets it can run works in its favor, but this "versatility" is cut short because it has the same checks and counters, regardless whether it'd be Agility or AssVest. And considering how half-assed Metagross' sets are in comparison to others who fulfill the same position, Metagross deservingly gets the B.
Metagross really should B. I'll elab on this point later but here's the generl gist. If you look at the current list of S and A rank mons, you'll see that Gross as the utter inability to deal with them. He cannot switch in safely to many of the threats and he can't hurt any of the defensive Pokemon up there bar Florges. You can argue that th variety of sets it can run works in its favor, but this "versatility" is cut short because it has the same checks and counters, regardless whether it'd be Agility or AssVest. And considering how half-assed Metagross' sets are in comparison to others who fulfill the same position, Metagross deservingly gets the B.
Metagross should be B.
Metagross has 4 sets who are anything but impressive in this metagame... let's take a look at them:
. Choice Band: it's really hard to succesfully use this set in the current UU, Slowbro tanks it with ease and if you bring it on Florges it can scout which move you have with protect and then proceed to switch to something that can take it and pressure it back (like Victini if you get locked on a steel move or the shit ton of dark types on the high ladder if you get locked on ZHeadbutt etc...)
. Assault Vest: Nothing impressive, still gets 2HKOE'd by Hydreigon, Nidoking/Queen, MegaHoundoom, Mega Blastoise... what's the point of this set anyway ? To be at full health take a hit from a usual counter, hit back and then die the next turn ?
. Utility: If your name isn't Forretress or Azelf (who is fast and just explodes after doing it's job) then you can't 'run' a successful suicide lead, especially if Mew can just come in and Defog your screens and rocks and there is nothing you can do about it but to facepalm at yourself for wasting three turns... oh and let's not forget about how this set is set-up bait for Slowbro and Suicune.
. Agility: with the steel nerf, Gross is gonna have a hard time finding something that it can set up on, cause even harmless things like Forry can VoltSwitch on it to grab momentum... not to mention that it does not do enough damage to successfully pull a sweep since it cannot boost it's attack stat... speaking of boosting the attack.
. Weakness Policy (lol): This set is just fucking bad for obvious reasons and can only function once in 50 battles
And in terms of comparability, there is no way in hell Gross could be as viable as MegaMan and Chandelure so yeah, B Rank for Metagross.
As for Nidoqueen I think it should stay A along with Nidoking for the reasons everyone stated.
Metagross has 4 sets who are anything but impressive in this metagame... let's take a look at them:
. Choice Band: it's really hard to succesfully use this set in the current UU, Slowbro tanks it with ease and if you bring it on Florges it can scout which move you have with protect and then proceed to switch to something that can take it and pressure it back (like Victini if you get locked on a steel move or the shit ton of dark types on the high ladder if you get locked on ZHeadbutt etc...)
. Assault Vest: Nothing impressive, still gets 2HKOE'd by Hydreigon, Nidoking/Queen, MegaHoundoom, Mega Blastoise... what's the point of this set anyway ? To be at full health take a hit from a usual counter, hit back and then die the next turn ?
. Utility: If your name isn't Forretress or Azelf (who is fast and just explodes after doing it's job) then you can't 'run' a successful suicide lead, especially if Mew can just come in and Defog your screens and rocks and there is nothing you can do about it but to facepalm at yourself for wasting three turns... oh and let's not forget about how this set is set-up bait for Slowbro and Suicune.
. Agility: with the steel nerf, Gross is gonna have a hard time finding something that it can set up on, cause even harmless things like Forry can VoltSwitch on it to grab momentum... not to mention that it does not do enough damage to successfully pull a sweep since it cannot boost it's attack stat... speaking of boosting the attack.
. Weakness Policy (lol): This set is just fucking bad for obvious reasons and can only function once in 50 battles
And in terms of comparability, there is no way in hell Gross could be as viable as MegaMan and Chandelure so yeah, B Rank for Metagross.
As for Nidoqueen I think it should stay A along with Nidoking for the reasons everyone stated.
View attachment 13765 Metagross for B Metagross is somewhat underwhelming. Band has power but many common pokemon like suicune, mega aggron, forro, slowbro, victini and rotom heat deal with it quite comfortably. Assault vest has a niche in stopping florges but thats about it, umbreon foul plays it to death pretty comfortably and florges is often paired wih mega aggron who can take like 15+ banded bullet punches or something ridiculous like that, it just is often dead weigh for team. Suicide lead is outclassed by azelf who can prevent opposing rocks and deal massive damamge with explosion, also forro outclasses it in that. Agility and weakness policy are both just piss weak and its worse two sets. Honestly, this thing can be good with the right support and can bring good things to a team but the fact that pokemon like nido, darm, victini and hydriegon are everywhere and destroy it with their stabs, its best sets are done better by other pokemon and the fact that it is quite underwhelming are all reasons why it should drop to B.
View attachment 13766 Nidoqueen for A/A- All the points have already been said, I agree with all. Although, nidoking does have more running for it with mega horn, im fine with either.
View attachment 13766 Nidoqueen for A/A- All the points have already been said, I agree with all. Although, nidoking does have more running for it with mega horn, im fine with either.
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252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 188-222 (47.7 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Don't shit on him too much, y'all, I admit that he does struggle with the waters quite a bit, but Metagross can be a legitimately dangerous and threatening Pokemon.
Don't shit on him too much, y'all, I admit that he does struggle with the waters quite a bit, but Metagross can be a legitimately dangerous and threatening Pokemon.
Metagross is worth B+, It cannot preform its job as a /SR-settertank on par A- pokemon like Hippowdon, or CB like Flygon along with Escavalier having an arguebly better A-vest set. However it is way better than Swamert as a SR-setter/Tank because of its better coverage, ability to destroy most taunt leads and the ability to beat the ever annoying Celebi with Ice punch. It has a CB and A-vestset that are on par if not better than Machamps, because of better bulk and greater defensive typing, and not having to rely on Confusion. While not on par with Mixtini or Mixed kyurem, MixGross can beat most of its counters with a sample set of M-mash, EQ, Grass knot and HP Fire/Ice, leaving the only hard counter to be Slowking and Crocune.
Also, CB metagross can 2HKO most bulky waters in the tier after SR¨
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 180-214 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 188-222 (47.7 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Blastoise: 176-208 (48.6 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 288-340 (77.4 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Also, CB metagross can 2HKO most bulky waters in the tier after SR¨
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 180-214 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 188-222 (47.7 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Blastoise: 176-208 (48.6 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 288-340 (77.4 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Metagross is tbh really bad in the metagame atm, it's just to weak to common attacking types and tho it has a really good base attack stat and decent coverage and nice utility, it will always find itself either to weak or just beeing bait for other dangerous pokemons in the tier like, hydreigon, victini, entei, nidoking/queen, darmanitan, heracross, mienshao etc. And thats already a shitlong list for a pokemon thats supposed to wall stuff and hit back, cause thats what Metagross is all about a bulky tank, and it's really underwhelming at doing this. Ofc stuff like the band set hits hard, but it's way to easy to wall, and it's also slow and as I stated earlier, weak to a shitton off common attacking types, Metagross should drop to B- or even C+ or C idc this pokemon is really bad.
Nidoqueen is a really good pokemon, and it has some nice pros over it's fellow twin nidoking, which is bulk and staying power. Nidoqueen should be played as a tank, because it can actually tank a hit or two, setup t-spikes, stealth rock or hit back quite hard, and it does all off this with less pressure on itself than nidoking. The way nidoking works is by abusing it's great wallbreaking capability and access to megahorn which let it bypass common switch-ins like umbreon and mew, thats really the whole difference, it's more based on what your team needs, and that is what makes those two so compareable as they both can function in the same way quite easely tho they have different niche's, I would say that Nidoqueen should stay A rank.
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Metagross is moving down to B rank, as it isn't nearly as good as the other B+ ranked Pokemon (Chandelure, MegaMan, etc.) However, Metagross has its own niche with fairly good resistances and access to Stealth Rocks. B rank seemed very fair.
Nidoqueen is moving down to A- rank, for the simple fact that it isn't as good as Nidoking (who is in A rank). The extra bulk is pretty mediocre considering the added bonuses you get from using Nidoking. Obviously, this is assuming you're using Nidoking as a Stealth Rocks user. Even further, Nidoking can run Megahorn to break Mew, while Nidoqueen can't. The only reason you'd ever use Nidoqueen over Nidoking is if you're running a bulky offense team that needs to tank a Heracross/Mienshao twice in a match, but even that's fringe.
The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Porygon-Z and Reuniclus. I know a lot of people don't use Porygon-Z, but it's extremely dangerous.
Nidoqueen is moving down to A- rank, for the simple fact that it isn't as good as Nidoking (who is in A rank). The extra bulk is pretty mediocre considering the added bonuses you get from using Nidoking. Obviously, this is assuming you're using Nidoking as a Stealth Rocks user. Even further, Nidoking can run Megahorn to break Mew, while Nidoqueen can't. The only reason you'd ever use Nidoqueen over Nidoking is if you're running a bulky offense team that needs to tank a Heracross/Mienshao twice in a match, but even that's fringe.
The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Porygon-Z and Reuniclus. I know a lot of people don't use Porygon-Z, but it's extremely dangerous.
if people actually think that pz isn't anything less than A rank then they're retarted. the double dancing set runs through unprepared teams easily, and the set has a good amount of bulk too since you should be investing enough speed only to outrun scarf mien at +2. it also has a solid movepool, solid abilities, really the only thing holding it back is its speed and its typing.
idr have much experience with reuni but from what ive heard it rapes non umbreon-stall. basically b+ or b is good for it since it gets anally raped by shit like megadoom and hydrei but it has good enough stats and movepool for it to be dangerous in its own right
idr have much experience with reuni but from what ive heard it rapes non umbreon-stall. basically b+ or b is good for it since it gets anally raped by shit like megadoom and hydrei but it has good enough stats and movepool for it to be dangerous in its own right
If Porygon-Z moves an inch below A-Rank, I'll be very disappointed, considering the amount of train that thing runs if it sets up. Also, as bouffalant said, it actually has a decent amount of bulk as well.
inb4 SpecPorygonZHyperBeam2HKOsBlissey
Yeah. Porygon-Z is definitely one of the best late game sweeper and one of the best wallbreakers in the game too. A +2 PoryZ tears apart every single relevant in the metagame and a +2 speed PoryZ outspeeds murders every single frail Pokemon in the meta. Furthermore, Tri Attack and Shadow Ball gives it complete coverage. The only issue is that Porygon-Z has is it's frail as shit, which means that it relies on forced switches. So basically no safe setup opps. Def8nitely an A-Ranked mon for that.
Yeah. Porygon-Z is definitely one of the best late game sweeper and one of the best wallbreakers in the game too. A +2 PoryZ tears apart every single relevant in the metagame and a +2 speed PoryZ outspeeds murders every single frail Pokemon in the meta. Furthermore, Tri Attack and Shadow Ball gives it complete coverage. The only issue is that Porygon-Z has is it's frail as shit, which means that it relies on forced switches. So basically no safe setup opps. Def8nitely an A-Ranked mon for that.
Well a TR Variant destroys them both. also for non TR variants.
252 SpA Mega Houndoom Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 318-374 (75 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Houndoom: 296-351 (101.3 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Full HP Reuniclus destroys Defeats Megadoom most of the time actually.
Also...
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 377-447 (88.9 - 105.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 296-351 (91 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
And for a realistic one...
252+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 395-465 (121.5 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Is a toss up against LO Hydreigon, Scarfed can't OHKO in any way either, so no "Raped" or something of the sort, Reuniclus can stand against these too pretty well.
I think porygon2 should be at least B+. When it is compared to two pokemon in that tier that can also set up tr, aromatisse and bronzong, he is better than both of them, with a better offensive presence, better coverage, better bulk, reliable recovery, and more roles than that, like general tank. In fact, it can be ranked even higher.
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P-Z
hardly any set up opportunities, hardly any useful resistances (ghost is nice but all the dark spam has made that less important). I get that it's super scary if it can set up but that's a big if imo. the offensive stuff in the higher ranks are still useful defensively because they have some cool resistances/immunes. P-Z only really has ghost, so it doesn't contribute in that department. You can probably just naturally check this thing without worrying about it too much (i have never even considered whether I'm P-Z weak when building). So for being hard to set up and not offering synergy like other offensive behemoths do, B+
Reun
Super scary, both TR and CM recover can absolutely wreck. Hates the dark spam atm although it does have ways around the more prominent ones. I think it's kind of similar to cune but a little worse. It will sweep you if you're not careful. A-
hardly any set up opportunities, hardly any useful resistances (ghost is nice but all the dark spam has made that less important). I get that it's super scary if it can set up but that's a big if imo. the offensive stuff in the higher ranks are still useful defensively because they have some cool resistances/immunes. P-Z only really has ghost, so it doesn't contribute in that department. You can probably just naturally check this thing without worrying about it too much (i have never even considered whether I'm P-Z weak when building). So for being hard to set up and not offering synergy like other offensive behemoths do, B+
Reun
Super scary, both TR and CM recover can absolutely wreck. Hates the dark spam atm although it does have ways around the more prominent ones. I think it's kind of similar to cune but a little worse. It will sweep you if you're not careful. A-
PZ for A, this thing is just soooo fucking good, no safe switchins, 3 godlike abilites, perfect coverage in two moves, which allows it to do all sorts of shit for to team, choice scarf can easily sweep once hera and mian is gone, and specs breaks every damn wall it desires. It hits like a truck, and soooo deserves the current rank.
panamaxis Although it doesn't really have any safe set-up opps bar predicting a switch, its Choice Specs set is still pretty damn powerful. With a Modest nature, Porygon-Z 2HKOes most of the tier after Stealth Rocks.
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 142-168 (39.4 - 46.6%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Hidden Power (Fighting) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 146-172 (39.2 - 46.2%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 188-222 (46.5 - 54.9%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Snorlax: 248-292 (47.3 - 55.7%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 214-254 (48.1 - 57.2%)
You can argue that the Nidos do this better, but the combination of being able to disable another wall via Trick is also pretty nice. The pure deadliness of Porygon-Z itself is purely underestimated.
Also for you kids out there, if you want to try something fun, use Mixed Porygon-Z:
Porygon-Z @ Life Orb
Ability: Download
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Bashful Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 30 Spd
- Double-Edge
- Tri Attack
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power
Really good wallbreaker. When breaking walls, it's almost guaranteed that you'll get the boost you want (+Att on Florges, +SpAtt on Physically Defensive dude)
+1 4 Atk Life Orb Porygon-Z Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Umbreon: 195-230 (49.4 - 58.3%)
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 231-274 (57.1 - 67.8%)
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 278-330 (62.6 - 74.3%)
+1 4 Atk Life Orb Porygon-Z Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aromatisse: 274-325 (67.4 - 80%)
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 226-268 (66.8 - 79.2%)
+1 4 Atk Life Orb Porygon-Z Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 286-339 (79.4 - 94.1%)
+1 4 Atk Life Orb Porygon-Z Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 192-227 (53.3 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 460-543 (116.7 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 4 Atk Life Orb Porygon-Z Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 208-247 (51.4 - 61.1%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Bar Escavalier and friends, almost every wall/fat thing in UU is 2HKOed by this set.
NOTE: I'm using BreakMyTeam, and Florges doesn't even show up on this list lol.
Now that I've presented you this argument Pan, hopefully Porygon-Z isn't as bad in your opinion.
Yo, I don't want to derail what little discussion we have on the current two topic mons, but I just feel like pointing out that that lower ranks are kinda awful, especially considering most of those mons have been there for multiple tier shifts. Pretty much half of C/C+ can be removed entirely (or at least be moved to C-/D,) a lot of that stuff is just utter, irredeemable garbage, while a good portion of B/B- should really go in the lower ranks.
I don't want people to start discussing the lower rankings because P-Z and Reun are the topic right now, but if Limitless or some other mod gets some free time they can just clean it up a bit, because stuff like Claydol, Feraligatr and Malamar are just really, really bad and I don't think anyone (sane) would contest their removal, they just have way too many flaws to be at all successful in UU and don't really have a niche they're not hopelessly outclassed in, while stuff like Articuno, Stoutland, Slurpuff and Cacturne, who have actual niches but are pretty flawed, should go down to C-ish.
Again, I don't want people to start discussing the lower rankings, just wanted to let someone know that they're pretty messed up so pls don't respond to this trying to defend Claydol/Malamar/GATR because you can't, they're just so bad.
Also I feel Reun should be A-, because OTR set is really good against offensive teams and LO Calm Mind pretty much solos stall, but a lot of top threats are Dark or Bug attackers and Knock Off and Sucker Punch are everywhere. And it's painfully slow until you get TR up (though it is bulky.) When I used it, it pulled its weight, however I often had a lot of trouble finding a good chance to use TR or CM.
I don't want people to start discussing the lower rankings because P-Z and Reun are the topic right now, but if Limitless or some other mod gets some free time they can just clean it up a bit, because stuff like Claydol, Feraligatr and Malamar are just really, really bad and I don't think anyone (sane) would contest their removal, they just have way too many flaws to be at all successful in UU and don't really have a niche they're not hopelessly outclassed in, while stuff like Articuno, Stoutland, Slurpuff and Cacturne, who have actual niches but are pretty flawed, should go down to C-ish.
Again, I don't want people to start discussing the lower rankings, just wanted to let someone know that they're pretty messed up so pls don't respond to this trying to defend Claydol/Malamar/GATR because you can't, they're just so bad.
Also I feel Reun should be A-, because OTR set is really good against offensive teams and LO Calm Mind pretty much solos stall, but a lot of top threats are Dark or Bug attackers and Knock Off and Sucker Punch are everywhere. And it's painfully slow until you get TR up (though it is bulky.) When I used it, it pulled its weight, however I often had a lot of trouble finding a good chance to use TR or CM.
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ye i agree that claydol and malamar are p ass in uu, ive seen some good players having success with gatr (somehow) so that... could stay where it is? idk tbh
stoutland should really not be moving down due to the fact that sand offense is starting to become more and more common and cb stout is such a fucking beast, it rapes nearly anything non resistant and has actually good coverage.
stoutland should really not be moving down due to the fact that sand offense is starting to become more and more common and cb stout is such a fucking beast, it rapes nearly anything non resistant and has actually good coverage.
eaglehawk I don't think P-Z is bad at all. B+ means it can be extremely dangerous. The only reason I advocated for B+ rather than somewhere in the As is because of the lack of resistances / defensive synergy / it's hard to set up / 90 base speed isn't super fast. The offensive nukes in the A tier like nidoking have this, whereas Porygon Z doesn't. I'm not arguing that P-Z isn't ridiculously dangerous offensively because, yes, it is. My argument for B+ was based on other factors like those previously mentioned.
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