Intro
Hey guys, this is the first time I'm making a rain team, so help and suggestions are greatly appreciated. One thing you should know about me is that I rely on my ability to use certain pokemon, so I often find it hard to use pokemon like Garchomp (before it became uber D:) or Latios, which should be simple to use, while, in my opinion, I am very good at using pokemon like Breloom (my favorite in 4th gen), Gliscor (Toxic Orb is awesome), Exeggutor (The Harvest thing with Sitrus Berry), etc, so while some of your suggestions may be good, I may not take them to heart just because my ability to incorporate them my be insufficient. This is a rain team, as the title suggests, and weather teams in 5th generation are the norm. This team peaked at 1309 in the Pokemon online server, but as I was battling, I couldn't help but notice several weaknesses that it has, such as it's weakness to fighting type pokemon once Dragonite is taken out, Ferrothorns, and its inability to effectively counter sandstorm teams. So of course, this team definitely needs some work (which is why I'm posting here), and I believe that explaining my strategies behind it is the most effective way to get good suggestions and the such. So without further ado, let's begin.
At a Glance
In Depth
Genesect - Download (No Gender)
Naive (+Speed, -SpD)
Item: Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 4 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Bug Buzz
- U-turn
- Thunder
Genesect is of course a generic anti-lead, and this is a sort of generic scarfed set. This is in no way a suicide lead, as this pokemon is usually very useful in the later parts of most matches I play in. Genesect's Download ability is very nice in either setting up for a sweep, or at least a hard hit (if SpAtk is raised), or getting extra damage for U-turn (if Atk is raised). In the lead position, Genesect's main use is to take out any threats to my team that happen to be in the lead position, such as those pesky dragon types, or, in most cases, just to scout and U-turn for some extra damage.
In the later portion of the match, Genesect can be used as a very nice revenge killer, or just a good pokemon to switch into because of its scarf. Ice Beam is again, for those pesky dragon types, but can also be used for Grass types (very useful against Contrary Serperior), Ground, and Flying. Bug Buzz is a good stab move, and can be used against Psychic types (Reuniclus if it didn't set up that many Calm Minds), and of course, T-tar, the infamous sand streamer. U-turn is always useful for getting extra damage off or escaping Magnet Pullers.
Possible Replacement stuff: I really like this set, but of course, I have some problems. Having Thunder on this set is very good for later parts of the game, once I have rain set up, but as a lead, when rain is not set up, it's not very optimal, so maybe thunderbolt should be used instead. Most other sets have flamethrower instead of thunder, but fire-type moves are not very good in the rain.
Politoed - Drizzle (Female)
Bold (+ Def, - Atk)
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpDef
- Scald
- Toxic
- Encore
- Protect
First off, I usually try to make my Pokemon female in case I encounter some Pokemon with attract, which are usually female since those people want to take advantage of the fact that the default gender is male in PO. Anyway, most Politoeds I encounter are actually offensive, oddly, but this set works pretty well anyway. Double status is really good for breaking walls, and scald can be used to physical threats. Encore is a really good move to get any Pokemon to stop setting up so I can get a safe switch in. Protect is a good move to use for scouting or of course, Toxic/Burn Stalling. So, besides setting up the rain, Politoed can be very useful, although if I were to choose a Pokemon on my team to sleep fodder, it would be this one.
I wanted to use a more defensive set for my Politoed because in a weather war, which is often the case since Sand teams are WAY TOO COMMON, I want my Politoed alive, and this thing actually can take a couple of hits, so it works well I guess.
Possible Problems: Uh... not really anything. I would like to have ice beam on this thing, like a lot of other Politoeds, but I don't really want to take out any other moves.
Dragonite - Multiscale (Female)
Modest (+ SpAtk, - Atk)
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpAtk, 4 SpDef
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Brick Break
- Roost
I often find Dragonite my main player in many matches and when it faints, I often think the match is already lost. This is surprising because last generation, I really hated using Dragonite because of its 4x weakness to ice and the fact that it didn't really stand out in any way. However, Dragonite seems to cover its weaknesses (kinda) with Multiscale, a great ability, and with this set in particular (which was stolen from another rain team somewhere, sorry >.>), which is very interesting and WAS uncommon when I found it (but now its kinda common).
So an here's an overview. Hurricane is a beast in the rain, with STAB and it's ability to confuse opponents, so this move is the main move for wiping out any who oppose it. Thunder is there for coverage, as water types, who generally learn ice beam, are certainly threatening. Brick Break is (or used to, before this set became common) a nice surprise for tyranitars hoping to spoil the fun by setting up sand storm, and can sometimes be used in other situations. Roost is to get health back and get back Multiscale.
Possible Problems: As I said before, I am in love with this set, but of course, there are some problems. I think that Dragonite without a Dragon move is kinda weird to use, and makes it almost useless against other dragons, so if I'm not in a situation to switch out to my ice beamers, then it could be a problem, so maybe Dragon Pulse should be used instead. Furthermore, this isn't a very great T-tar counter, since T-tar usually packs stone edge, which is devastating even with multiscale, which is very hard to maintain in the sand.
Ferrothorn - Iron Barbs (No Gender)
Sassy (+SpD, - Speed)
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP, 56 Def, 200 SpDef
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
I really hate this Pokemon, it's everywhere, it's horrible, it's my third worst nightmare (excluding Reuniclus, 2nd, and Sigilyph, 1st). But I have to admit it is very useful on a rain team. Rain makes many of its counters with HP Fire, like Magnezone, etc, utterly pitiful. This thing is really the only stall Pokemon on my team (which is surprising since I consider my forte stalling, especially when Leech Seed is involved), and its really the only thing I want to take hits besides Politoed and Dragonite in some cases.
For its moves, Power Whip is a good STAB move, and I prefer it over Gyro Ball because Steel isn't a really great type to use for attack, since it's really not good against anything. Leech Seed is a must have for any of my stall Pokemon, and the main form of recovery for any member of my team (also surprising, I love recovery moves). Stealth Rock, often considered the most important move in the game, is a good entry hazard to have, especially for breaking sashes, sturdy, and multiscale, as well as getting extra damage off. Protect is a nice pairing with Leech Seed, and can be used for scouting as well.
Possible Problems: The last three moves I definitely want to keep. Some people like Spikes over Stealth Rocks, as SR can be a job of other Pokemon, but in my case, I don't have any other Pokemon on my team that I want to give SR to, and it take less time to set up and is more useful against threats. Power Whip on the other hand, is a questionable move. It's typing is more useful than Gyro Ball's, but Gyro Ball has more power against offensive threats, but Gyro Ball is also horrible against other slow Pokemon. Also, I could opt to not have an attacking move at all and go for Spikes/Toxic Spikes, but if a Pokemon taunts me, then I'm forced to switch instead of getting some extra damage in (but I would usually switch anyway, soooo...)
Azumarill - HUGE POWER (Female)
Adamant (+Atk, - SpAtk)
Item: Choice Band
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def
- Aqua Jet
- Super Power
- Double-Edge
- Ice Punch
Azumarill is just a beast this generation with Huge Power, and is the main attacking force in my team. In the rain, even more so. With a boosted Aqua Jet, it has the potential to pull off a sweep in many cases. Aqua Jet is its main attacking move, as it has priority to make up for its abysmal speed for a sweeper. Super Power is the only true counter for Ferrothorn, and is the only fighting move on my team, which could be a problem, but in any case, it's staying there as it is infinitely useful. Double-Edge good because not many things that resist Super Power resists normal type moves, although the recoil can sometimes hurt as Azumarill does pack a hard punch. Ice Punch is yet another Ice move on my team that is there to get dragons and grass pokemon and the like.
Possible Problems: The first two moves are definitely staying. If you don't agree, you crazy. The last two are kinda questionable. I have seen waterfall on many Azumarills, which is understandable, cause Waterfall is more powerful and will crush many things, but I like double edge more mainly because Waterfall is not needed in most cases because of the rain boost for Aqua Jet and Azumarill is definitely slower than most things, and 2 Aqua Jets > 1 Waterfall. Ice Punch is only questionable since I have a plethora of Ice moves on my team, but my ice moves are generally on frail pokemon, so I would like to keep it there as well.
Starmie - Natural Cure (Female)
Modest (+ SpAtk, - Atk)
Item: Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Rapid Spin
Starmie has always been one of my favorite Pokemon, but I changed up my traditional Life Orb Starmie and opted for a scarfed one instead. I always found double scarfs interesting and surprising, so I wanted to implement them this time. The main reason I have it scarfed is so that it can outspeed stuff, like Excadrill in the sand, and still hit hard with a modest nature. I have not encountered many Pokemon that can outspeed Starmie with a Modest nature and 252 Speed EVs, so that's my reasoning behind that.
I used to think that Hydro Pump had 85% accuracy, probably since Fire Blast is 85%, but apparently it's 80%, but that's still kinda acceptable. I have the BoltBeam combo running, instead of Tbolt I have Thunder (since it's in the rain), so it has pretty good coverage (which doesn't matter as much since it's choiced, but yeah...). Rapid Spin might seem weird on a choiced Pokemon, but it kinda makes sense, since I want to be able to spin hazards away before it dies, and Natural Cure makes it a better spinner since it can come in on Toxic Spikes and leave with very low casualties.
Possible Problems: When making this team, this spot was the spot I had most trouble filling, and still remains as the spot I can replace with another Pokemon. At first, I had Excadrill as a sand counter as well as a spinner, but that did not work as well as I hoped and usually ended up as fodder against teams without sand (it was banded for some extra power, so that might have been the reason, but... whatever). I also thought about using thunderous, since I heard it was a beast in the rain, but like, because of personal preferences (I like spinners instead of pokemon that can taunt), I landed on Starmie instead.
In addition, for its moves, I could replace Hydro Pump with Surf. Surf is definitely tons more accurate, but Hydro Pump usually has that extra power that I need, and in the rain, it makes it much more beneficial. Some people would say to have Psychic instead of Rapid Spin, since it is choiced, and would help against my weakness against fighting types, but the only real reason I have Starmie on this team is for rapid spin, so if it doesn't have it, I might as well opt for a better Pokemon.
Conclusion
So, in performance, this team does pretty well, I mean a 1309 peak rating is pretty respectable, especially for someone of my level who usually doesn't get past 1225, but in theory, this team is pretty problematic since it lacks a proper structure, and I'm afraid against better players, its lack of cohesiveness would definitely fail it. So really, it's just a combination of Pokemon that I find are very suitable in the rain.
To sum up, the really big problems for this team is it's weakness against Fighting types (once Dragonite is down, it's over), some Psychic Types (especially Sigilyph, that Pokemon is really really annoying), opposing Ferrothorns (my only good counter against that is Azumarill with Superpower) and of course, counter weather teams, especially sandstorm.
There are some other concerns I have as well. At the moment, Starmie seems like a pretty weak Pokemon to have, so I would like to replace it with something else. I also really hate having no way to counteract Status moves except toxic (I have two steel types). Paralysis can really hinder most of my team, especially my scarfed Pokemon, and Burn will completely destroy my Azumarill, so a possible replacement for Starmie might have heal bell/aromatheropy? I also hate having lack of recovery, so a wisher might also work as well. But I understand that not all teams can have everything, so I would prefer a Rapid Spinner over the previous two suggestions.
Lastly, I would like to emphasize that even though people may have great suggestions, it might not work well with me specifically since my playing style only allows me to use certain pokemon in certain ways. But putting that aside, any suggestions are welcome. Thanks.
Suggestions:
Genesect:
Politoed:
- Change to Specs Politoed (different moveset, etc.)
Ferrothorn:
- Change Protect to Twave
Dragonite:
- Invest more in attack to get hard hits against Blissey and Ttar
Azumarill:
- Opt Return over Double-Edge so there's no recoil
Starmie:
- Switch Thunder to Trick
- Completely get rid of Starmie for Lanturn (special wall and Thundurous counter)
Hey guys, this is the first time I'm making a rain team, so help and suggestions are greatly appreciated. One thing you should know about me is that I rely on my ability to use certain pokemon, so I often find it hard to use pokemon like Garchomp (before it became uber D:) or Latios, which should be simple to use, while, in my opinion, I am very good at using pokemon like Breloom (my favorite in 4th gen), Gliscor (Toxic Orb is awesome), Exeggutor (The Harvest thing with Sitrus Berry), etc, so while some of your suggestions may be good, I may not take them to heart just because my ability to incorporate them my be insufficient. This is a rain team, as the title suggests, and weather teams in 5th generation are the norm. This team peaked at 1309 in the Pokemon online server, but as I was battling, I couldn't help but notice several weaknesses that it has, such as it's weakness to fighting type pokemon once Dragonite is taken out, Ferrothorns, and its inability to effectively counter sandstorm teams. So of course, this team definitely needs some work (which is why I'm posting here), and I believe that explaining my strategies behind it is the most effective way to get good suggestions and the such. So without further ado, let's begin.
At a Glance
In Depth
Genesect - Download (No Gender)
Naive (+Speed, -SpD)
Item: Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 4 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Bug Buzz
- U-turn
- Thunder
Genesect is of course a generic anti-lead, and this is a sort of generic scarfed set. This is in no way a suicide lead, as this pokemon is usually very useful in the later parts of most matches I play in. Genesect's Download ability is very nice in either setting up for a sweep, or at least a hard hit (if SpAtk is raised), or getting extra damage for U-turn (if Atk is raised). In the lead position, Genesect's main use is to take out any threats to my team that happen to be in the lead position, such as those pesky dragon types, or, in most cases, just to scout and U-turn for some extra damage.
In the later portion of the match, Genesect can be used as a very nice revenge killer, or just a good pokemon to switch into because of its scarf. Ice Beam is again, for those pesky dragon types, but can also be used for Grass types (very useful against Contrary Serperior), Ground, and Flying. Bug Buzz is a good stab move, and can be used against Psychic types (Reuniclus if it didn't set up that many Calm Minds), and of course, T-tar, the infamous sand streamer. U-turn is always useful for getting extra damage off or escaping Magnet Pullers.
Possible Replacement stuff: I really like this set, but of course, I have some problems. Having Thunder on this set is very good for later parts of the game, once I have rain set up, but as a lead, when rain is not set up, it's not very optimal, so maybe thunderbolt should be used instead. Most other sets have flamethrower instead of thunder, but fire-type moves are not very good in the rain.
Politoed - Drizzle (Female)
Bold (+ Def, - Atk)
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpDef
- Scald
- Toxic
- Encore
- Protect
First off, I usually try to make my Pokemon female in case I encounter some Pokemon with attract, which are usually female since those people want to take advantage of the fact that the default gender is male in PO. Anyway, most Politoeds I encounter are actually offensive, oddly, but this set works pretty well anyway. Double status is really good for breaking walls, and scald can be used to physical threats. Encore is a really good move to get any Pokemon to stop setting up so I can get a safe switch in. Protect is a good move to use for scouting or of course, Toxic/Burn Stalling. So, besides setting up the rain, Politoed can be very useful, although if I were to choose a Pokemon on my team to sleep fodder, it would be this one.
I wanted to use a more defensive set for my Politoed because in a weather war, which is often the case since Sand teams are WAY TOO COMMON, I want my Politoed alive, and this thing actually can take a couple of hits, so it works well I guess.
Possible Problems: Uh... not really anything. I would like to have ice beam on this thing, like a lot of other Politoeds, but I don't really want to take out any other moves.
Dragonite - Multiscale (Female)
Modest (+ SpAtk, - Atk)
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpAtk, 4 SpDef
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Brick Break
- Roost
I often find Dragonite my main player in many matches and when it faints, I often think the match is already lost. This is surprising because last generation, I really hated using Dragonite because of its 4x weakness to ice and the fact that it didn't really stand out in any way. However, Dragonite seems to cover its weaknesses (kinda) with Multiscale, a great ability, and with this set in particular (which was stolen from another rain team somewhere, sorry >.>), which is very interesting and WAS uncommon when I found it (but now its kinda common).
So an here's an overview. Hurricane is a beast in the rain, with STAB and it's ability to confuse opponents, so this move is the main move for wiping out any who oppose it. Thunder is there for coverage, as water types, who generally learn ice beam, are certainly threatening. Brick Break is (or used to, before this set became common) a nice surprise for tyranitars hoping to spoil the fun by setting up sand storm, and can sometimes be used in other situations. Roost is to get health back and get back Multiscale.
Possible Problems: As I said before, I am in love with this set, but of course, there are some problems. I think that Dragonite without a Dragon move is kinda weird to use, and makes it almost useless against other dragons, so if I'm not in a situation to switch out to my ice beamers, then it could be a problem, so maybe Dragon Pulse should be used instead. Furthermore, this isn't a very great T-tar counter, since T-tar usually packs stone edge, which is devastating even with multiscale, which is very hard to maintain in the sand.
Ferrothorn - Iron Barbs (No Gender)
Sassy (+SpD, - Speed)
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP, 56 Def, 200 SpDef
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
I really hate this Pokemon, it's everywhere, it's horrible, it's my third worst nightmare (excluding Reuniclus, 2nd, and Sigilyph, 1st). But I have to admit it is very useful on a rain team. Rain makes many of its counters with HP Fire, like Magnezone, etc, utterly pitiful. This thing is really the only stall Pokemon on my team (which is surprising since I consider my forte stalling, especially when Leech Seed is involved), and its really the only thing I want to take hits besides Politoed and Dragonite in some cases.
For its moves, Power Whip is a good STAB move, and I prefer it over Gyro Ball because Steel isn't a really great type to use for attack, since it's really not good against anything. Leech Seed is a must have for any of my stall Pokemon, and the main form of recovery for any member of my team (also surprising, I love recovery moves). Stealth Rock, often considered the most important move in the game, is a good entry hazard to have, especially for breaking sashes, sturdy, and multiscale, as well as getting extra damage off. Protect is a nice pairing with Leech Seed, and can be used for scouting as well.
Possible Problems: The last three moves I definitely want to keep. Some people like Spikes over Stealth Rocks, as SR can be a job of other Pokemon, but in my case, I don't have any other Pokemon on my team that I want to give SR to, and it take less time to set up and is more useful against threats. Power Whip on the other hand, is a questionable move. It's typing is more useful than Gyro Ball's, but Gyro Ball has more power against offensive threats, but Gyro Ball is also horrible against other slow Pokemon. Also, I could opt to not have an attacking move at all and go for Spikes/Toxic Spikes, but if a Pokemon taunts me, then I'm forced to switch instead of getting some extra damage in (but I would usually switch anyway, soooo...)
Azumarill - HUGE POWER (Female)
Adamant (+Atk, - SpAtk)
Item: Choice Band
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def
- Aqua Jet
- Super Power
- Double-Edge
- Ice Punch
Azumarill is just a beast this generation with Huge Power, and is the main attacking force in my team. In the rain, even more so. With a boosted Aqua Jet, it has the potential to pull off a sweep in many cases. Aqua Jet is its main attacking move, as it has priority to make up for its abysmal speed for a sweeper. Super Power is the only true counter for Ferrothorn, and is the only fighting move on my team, which could be a problem, but in any case, it's staying there as it is infinitely useful. Double-Edge good because not many things that resist Super Power resists normal type moves, although the recoil can sometimes hurt as Azumarill does pack a hard punch. Ice Punch is yet another Ice move on my team that is there to get dragons and grass pokemon and the like.
Possible Problems: The first two moves are definitely staying. If you don't agree, you crazy. The last two are kinda questionable. I have seen waterfall on many Azumarills, which is understandable, cause Waterfall is more powerful and will crush many things, but I like double edge more mainly because Waterfall is not needed in most cases because of the rain boost for Aqua Jet and Azumarill is definitely slower than most things, and 2 Aqua Jets > 1 Waterfall. Ice Punch is only questionable since I have a plethora of Ice moves on my team, but my ice moves are generally on frail pokemon, so I would like to keep it there as well.
Starmie - Natural Cure (Female)
Modest (+ SpAtk, - Atk)
Item: Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Rapid Spin
Starmie has always been one of my favorite Pokemon, but I changed up my traditional Life Orb Starmie and opted for a scarfed one instead. I always found double scarfs interesting and surprising, so I wanted to implement them this time. The main reason I have it scarfed is so that it can outspeed stuff, like Excadrill in the sand, and still hit hard with a modest nature. I have not encountered many Pokemon that can outspeed Starmie with a Modest nature and 252 Speed EVs, so that's my reasoning behind that.
I used to think that Hydro Pump had 85% accuracy, probably since Fire Blast is 85%, but apparently it's 80%, but that's still kinda acceptable. I have the BoltBeam combo running, instead of Tbolt I have Thunder (since it's in the rain), so it has pretty good coverage (which doesn't matter as much since it's choiced, but yeah...). Rapid Spin might seem weird on a choiced Pokemon, but it kinda makes sense, since I want to be able to spin hazards away before it dies, and Natural Cure makes it a better spinner since it can come in on Toxic Spikes and leave with very low casualties.
Possible Problems: When making this team, this spot was the spot I had most trouble filling, and still remains as the spot I can replace with another Pokemon. At first, I had Excadrill as a sand counter as well as a spinner, but that did not work as well as I hoped and usually ended up as fodder against teams without sand (it was banded for some extra power, so that might have been the reason, but... whatever). I also thought about using thunderous, since I heard it was a beast in the rain, but like, because of personal preferences (I like spinners instead of pokemon that can taunt), I landed on Starmie instead.
In addition, for its moves, I could replace Hydro Pump with Surf. Surf is definitely tons more accurate, but Hydro Pump usually has that extra power that I need, and in the rain, it makes it much more beneficial. Some people would say to have Psychic instead of Rapid Spin, since it is choiced, and would help against my weakness against fighting types, but the only real reason I have Starmie on this team is for rapid spin, so if it doesn't have it, I might as well opt for a better Pokemon.
Conclusion
So, in performance, this team does pretty well, I mean a 1309 peak rating is pretty respectable, especially for someone of my level who usually doesn't get past 1225, but in theory, this team is pretty problematic since it lacks a proper structure, and I'm afraid against better players, its lack of cohesiveness would definitely fail it. So really, it's just a combination of Pokemon that I find are very suitable in the rain.
To sum up, the really big problems for this team is it's weakness against Fighting types (once Dragonite is down, it's over), some Psychic Types (especially Sigilyph, that Pokemon is really really annoying), opposing Ferrothorns (my only good counter against that is Azumarill with Superpower) and of course, counter weather teams, especially sandstorm.
There are some other concerns I have as well. At the moment, Starmie seems like a pretty weak Pokemon to have, so I would like to replace it with something else. I also really hate having no way to counteract Status moves except toxic (I have two steel types). Paralysis can really hinder most of my team, especially my scarfed Pokemon, and Burn will completely destroy my Azumarill, so a possible replacement for Starmie might have heal bell/aromatheropy? I also hate having lack of recovery, so a wisher might also work as well. But I understand that not all teams can have everything, so I would prefer a Rapid Spinner over the previous two suggestions.
Lastly, I would like to emphasize that even though people may have great suggestions, it might not work well with me specifically since my playing style only allows me to use certain pokemon in certain ways. But putting that aside, any suggestions are welcome. Thanks.
Suggestions:
Genesect:
Politoed:
- Change to Specs Politoed (different moveset, etc.)
Ferrothorn:
- Change Protect to Twave
Dragonite:
- Invest more in attack to get hard hits against Blissey and Ttar
Azumarill:
- Opt Return over Double-Edge so there's no recoil
Starmie:
- Switch Thunder to Trick
- Completely get rid of Starmie for Lanturn (special wall and Thundurous counter)
