Pokémon Zygarde-Complete (100% Forme)

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

Ah... enjoy this monster down here while you still can, people. This is going to Ubers at the very least before long. I feel like Zygarde deserved it before this due to being such a brutal win condition. But now... it really does deserve it.

As soon as I set eyes on this, I was excited for the Thousand Waves set. Yes, not arrows, waves. With the discussion here, I know a possible set that can outstall nearly everything:

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers/Chesto Berry
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/136 SpD
Sassy Nature
Thousand Waves
Core Enforcer
Toxic
Rest

Yeah, it doesn't even need to boost to be regarded as insane. Simply Thousand Waves if your opponent's going to send in a grounded Physical wall (or just poison them if they're flying), and then go to town, as it's too late for the poor sap that thought you were going to be DD. The dual STAB easily prevents it from being a sitting duck, and Rest is recovery. You could also shift some of the HP EVs over to the defenses, considering Zygarde Complete isn't going anywhere when its form is changed, easily surviving the turns it's sleeping on.

Also, if you want to be REALLY evil, pair this with Salazzle, and poison their own Poison types (and Steels, if you're lucky/crafty). This results in a very easy stall from this monster.
All that from a set that's probably going to be seen as niche. I won't be surprised if this becomes the Mega Rayquaza of this generation, actually.

 

[Aurinko]

Zygarde 50 % @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Power Construct
Adamant Nature
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Rest

is way too strong for OU. I've been using Aurora Veil Ninetales-A and this and the 4 other slots were completely obsolete in 90 % of the matches.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

this shit is fucking ridiculous yo

generic spdef coil set pretty much loltanks about 99% of everything, it's braindead to set up 2 or 3 coils, and 1k arrows hits like a truck, never mind that it also passes levitate, flying type and balloons.

i'm actually pretty convinced this thing is even more retarded than pheromosa, at least phero is pretty frail. this guy just doesn't fucking die unless you sack tapu koko to block rest (and chances are you're probably at the mercy of dd sets which is even sillier because espeed)

 

[Lordemort]

This thing is unstopabble. I run DD, Extremespeed, Thousand Arrows and Sub. Once you get +2 (which you can easily get, since it's so bulky) and get down to complete form it's over basically for everyone unless they run Unaware Clefable.

 

[Leica]

I've been laddering with this thing a lot and it's completely nuts.

Both the bulky CoilRest and the offensive DD set are great, I've used a set with a sash and the amount of times it has cleaned house is incredible.

I'm not really in a position to make any claims like this but it almost feels stronger than Aegi/Pheromosa/Genesect who everyone seems to want gone more.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I've been laddering with this thing a lot and it's completely nuts.

Both the bulky CoilRest and the offensive DD set are great, I've used a set with a sash and the amount of times it has cleaned house is incredible.

I'm not really in a position to make any claims like this but it almost feels stronger than Aegi/Pheromosa/Genesect who everyone seems to want gone more.

You're using the bulkiest pokemon in the game with a focus sash?

 

[Leica]

You're using the bulkiest pokemon in the game with a focus sash?

Wasn't my idea actually, shamefully jacked it from someone else because it looked fun and the other Pokemon around it also looked nice to play around with.

Still did an incredible amount of work, it's gimmicky but sash allows guaranteed set up on almost anything, then brings you back to a decent amount of health which lets you survive some other attacks because of how thicc it is.

 

[Rarycaris]

You're using the bulkiest pokemon in the game with a focus sash?

You need it below 50% to get into Complete Form. Sash is presumably to stop the 50% form which has much less HP and still has a 4x weakness from getting OHKOed.

 

[Kejmur]

You need it below 50% to get into Complete Form. Sash is presumably to stop the 50% form which has much less HP and still has a 4x weakness from getting OHKOed.

Then use Yache Berry instead ? It's really, really hard to KO invested Zygarde anyway and this is the only x4 weakness he has, so this should easily secure transformation. Other berry is optional if you want surprise tank let's say Specs Draco Meteor from Latios. So each berry secures different opportunity set-up. Focus Sash is really, really massive waste of item slot on something as bulky as this.

Plus it has 108/121/95 in 50% form, which is BULKIER then Hippowdon to give you a picture of his natural bulk. Unless you really are willing to tank ridiculous hit like Specs Draco Meteor from Latios (why would you in first place ?) you should never drop into range of Focus Sash.

 

[Valiant Scizor]

"What is Zygarde 100% gonna do with those stats."

"This thing was supposed to be the destroyer of universes!"

"It only got an HP buff? I thought it would get more."

... xD

This things really is super good, I can't think of really any ways of reliably beating it.

 

[Siggu]

"It only got an HP buff? I thought it would get more."

And now it is "Thank goodness it only got an HP buff!"

 

[Bundy300]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-479519757

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-479512975

I prefer this set.

Zygarde 50 % @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
Carefull Nature
252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Spe
- Thousand Arrows
- Outrage
- ExtremeSpeed
- Coil

 

[Jaroda]

You know what's funny? Complete Zygarde almost has enough HP to tank a Counter from Skarmory at full health. Knocking Skarmory's health down to 1 HP from full and using Counter does (ironically) 666 damage. Zygarde-C's max HP is 636.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Anybody else getting a ORAS Mega Salamence in OU vibe from this thing? Literally setting up 99% of the metagame, and the 1% is beaten by glare shenanigans. I prefer a set of DD, TA, Sub, Rest. Just mows through everything.

 

[SJCrew]

It's not quite Mega Mence levels of mayday, but the way teams are constructed right now, it's effectively unstoppable. I think we'll have a clearer picture of how broken Zygarde is on its own when the meta isn't 90% Toxapex/Aegislash/Pheromosa; there isn't much room to adapt when Aegislash and Pheromosa are running things.

 

[Duck Chris]

IMO it should go with Aegislash and Pheromosa ASAP.

SpDef Coil set with Extreme Speed over Sleep Talk is probably the best

 

[NinetyNineNo]

Yeah, this isn't as obviously broken as Mega Salamence, who got all the ability and stat distribution love they didn't give to the other pseudo Megas, but it's deceptively strong. Even though it essentially doesn't have an ability, has no recovery moves and meh attack, I believe this is the single physically (and overall) bulkiest Pokemon yet discounting Multiscale on Lugia. Doesn't need to oneshot everything when it can just set up on 98% of the game.

 

[MattL]

When Zygarde transforms, it "gains" HP. It isn't explained here why that is, so here's how Power Construct works:

Power Construct explanation

When Zygarde changes formes, the amount of HP that it's lost is preserved.

For example, let's say you have max HP Zygarde 50% forme (the regular one). It has 420 HP. It takes 3 Seismic Tosses to get Zygarde below half health. After the third Seismic Toss, Zygarde has 120 HP left.

It then transforms into Zygarde-Complete, which has 636 HP. Therefore, once it transforms, Zygarde-Complete will have 336 HP. This is because Zygarde has lost 300 HP so far, so once it transforms, it still will have lost 300 HP.

The reason why it "heals" is because after 3 Seismic Tosses, Zygarde 50% is at 120/420 ≈ 29% HP. Once it transforms, Zygarde-Complete is at 336/636 ≈ 53% HP.

This is why hits against Zygarde are harder to calc. Does a move that does 55% 2HKO Chansey? Of course it does - you know this without even having to think about it. Does it a move that does 75% to Zygarde 2HKO it? I don't know, maybe? Fortunately, this is really easy to figure out.

Assuming Zygarde has 252 HP EVs and Leftovers (which is very common) and there are no hazards up, the first hit needs to do ~80.5% in order to 2HKO, assuming you get the same roll on the second hit.

If Zygarde has 252 HP EVs and Leftovers, and Stealth Rock are up, the first hit needs to do ~77.4% in order to 2HKO, assuming you get the same roll on the second hit.

Math for no hazards

Because Zygarde transforms before it gets Leftovers recovery, it recovers 636/16 = 39.75, or 39 HP (since Pokemon rounds down).

Therefore, in order to 2HKO, you need to be able to deal 636 + 39 = 675 points of damage in 2 hits. The reason this works is because Zygarde 50% and Zygarde-Complete have the same Defense and Special Defense stats (if they didn't, this would be more difficult to calculate).

So, you need to do 675/2 = 337.5, or 338 points of damage (since if you do 337 it'll be left with 1 HP) each turn.

Max HP Zygarde 50% has 420 HP, so 338/420 ≈ 80.5%.

Math for Rocks up

Zygarde takes 6.25% from Stealth Rock. Since it takes them in its 50% forme, it loses 420 * 6.25% = 26.25, or 26 HP (since Pokemon rounds down).

Therefore, to 2HKO you need to be able to deal 636 + 39 - 26 = 649 damage, or 325 damage per hit. 325/420 ≈ 77.4%.



Another way to see this is that since Zygarde took 6.25% from Rocks, in 2 turns you need to do that much less than if no Rocks were up. The difference between the ~77.4% number and the ~80.5% number is 3.125%, or half of Rocks damage.

You can use the approach in the above paragraph to figure out how much you need to do if the Zygarde has taken any amount of prior damage, say from Spikes or a random small hit like a U-turn.

 

[Jibaku]

Quick reminder that Power Construct activates after Leftovers recovery (I believe Showdown is incorrect), which slightly reduces the 2HKO requirement and can mess up the transformation if the initial damage is <55%

 

[November Blue]

+4 252+ Atk Choice Band Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-C: 276-325 (43.3 - 51.1%)

+4 252+ Atk Choice Band Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aggron-Mega: 169-199 (49.1 - 57.8%)

+4 252+ Atk Choice Band Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Bewear: 183-216 (41.2 - 48.6%) (Normal-type removed)

+4 252+ Atk Choice Band Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Multiscale Lugia: 131-155 (31.4 - 37.2%) (Psychic-type removed)

+4 252+ Atk Choice Band Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shadow Shield Lunala: 170-201 (35.5 - 42%) (Pure Flying-type)

+4 252+ Atk Choice Band Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 279-328 (55.3 - 65%) (Ghost-type removed)

+4 252+ Atk Choice Band Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix-Mega: 169-199 (47.7 - 56.2%)

+4 252+ Atk Choice Band Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon-Primal: 226-267 (55.9 - 66%)

+3 252+ Atk Choice Band Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Salamence-Mega: 220-259 (55.8 - 65.7%)

+4 252+ Atk Choice Band Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 202-238 (51.2 - 60.4%)

+4 252+ Atk Choice Band Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 205-243 (52 - 61.6%) (Pure Water-type)

----------------------------------------------


A quick comparison of raw physical bulk. Had to find a powerful attack to show he proper variance in damage percentages, while also hitting everything for neutral damage; I had to change some types around to achieve this.

 

[Marty]

Quick reminder that Power Construct activates after Leftovers recovery (I believe Showdown is incorrect), which slightly reduces the 2HKO requirement and can mess up the transformation if the initial damage is <55%

Really? So you're saying that if your opponent moves first and knocks you below 50%, you don't change formes before your move? It happens at the end of the turn like Zen Mode?
Edit: Another question, Schooling and Shields Down are also like Zen Mode but have the extra effect of activating immediately on switch-in as well; does Power Construct do this too?

Also I'd appreciate it if everyone posted important, valuable information like this in either the Battle Mechanics Research thread or Pokemon Showdown's Bug Reports thread so I don't have to accidentally come across it in discussion threads.

 

[Jibaku]

Yep it's an end of turn effect (unless my memory is really awful). Was testing if Power Construct Zygarde vs Xerneas had hidden interactions (there was none...) and discovered that PC was an end of turn activation instead.

 

[STEELDRAGON]

Unless you have a Ice type or a very strong dragon type you are pretty much done for. Their are other ways of beating it like Taunt and Unaware. Besides niche options there are very few pokemon that can prevent it from setting up. It is among the bulkiest pokemon in the game besides multiscale lugia and has a move that hits almost all pokemon for good damage.

 

[UltiMario]

I know this can be a bit of a stretch, but can we at least entertain the concept that Thousand Arrows might be the issue? I'm not entirely convinced it is, but I think it's a considerable possibility, as it's clear the Zygarde gaining both Power Construct and Thousand Arrows makes it broken (even Zydoge is probably good enough to be busted too, but with a much higher support requirement). Current sets mainly abuse the fact that you can ignore any considerable facet of set building by abusing 1-move unwallable coverage as hard as possible, by either using Coil or DD RestTalk with Thousand Arrows. Would being forced to run one of Zygarde's (fairly awful) coverage options actually make Zygarde as a whole feel more fair than removing Power Construct? It wouldn't heavily nerf the DTail sets, but it was pretty much neuter boosting sets and force them to do ChestoRest or Sub + Lefties if they want to deal with status.

What I'm trying to point out is it's Thousand Arrows that allows Zygarde to abuse a combination of 700 BST, unwallable single-move coverage, boost, and completely ignore any real incoming damage and status it does take all at once, while all Power Construct actually provides is the raw bulk to utilize pretty much a DTail set.

It's something we should look at before we entirely scrap this forme. We're banning something because "it's broken on everything that learns it" both ways, so there's not really a philosophical tiering advantage either way. I'm mostly advocating this point of view because I actually think there's a higher chance for 50% to rise up as an issue again using the exact same sets in a lower power level meta, and the possibility of having to ban it too. It's not something outside of the realm of possibility and I've actually won a game where I forgot to change my 50% to Power Construct before testing the team because it functions mostly the same. Thousand Arrows is really busted (to the surprise of no one) and if there's a possibility that Complete Rest/Talk/Dtail/EQ Zygarde is less broken than 50% [Coil/DD]/Rest/Talk/Arrows Zygarde, it's something we should analyze before hitting this with the banhammer.

 

[Jukain]

I know this can be a bit of a stretch, but can we at least entertain the concept that Thousand Arrows might be the issue? I'm not entirely convinced it is, but I think it's a considerable possibility, as it's clear the Zygarde gaining both Power Construct and Thousand Arrows makes it broken (even Zydoge is probably good enough to be busted too, but with a much higher support requirement). Current sets mainly abuse the fact that you can ignore any considerable facet of set building by abusing 1-move unwallable coverage as hard as possible, by either using Coil or DD RestTalk with Thousand Arrows. Would being forced to run one of Zygarde's (fairly awful) coverage options actually make Zygarde as a whole feel more fair than removing Power Construct? It wouldn't heavily nerf the DTail sets, but it was pretty much neuter boosting sets and force them to do ChestoRest or Sub + Lefties if they want to deal with status.

What I'm trying to point out is it's Thousand Arrows that allows Zygarde to abuse a combination of 700 BST, unwallable single-move coverage, boost, and completely ignore any real incoming damage and status it does take all at once, while all Power Construct actually provides is the raw bulk to utilize pretty much a DTail set.

It's something we should look at before we entirely scrap this forme. We're banning something because "it's broken on everything that learns it" both ways, so there's not really a philosophical tiering advantage either way. I'm mostly advocating this point of view because I actually think there's a higher chance for 50% to rise up as an issue again using the exact same sets in a lower power level meta, and the possibility of having to ban it too. It's not something outside of the realm of possibility and I've actually won a game where I forgot to change my 50% to Power Construct before testing the team because it functions mostly the same. Thousand Waves is really busted (to the surprise of no one) and if there's a possibility that Complete Rest/Talk/Dtail/EQ Zygarde is less broken than 50% [Coil/DD]/Rest/Talk/Arrows Zygarde, it's something we should analyze before hitting this with the banhammer.

I see your line of reasoning, but that's something I'd rather analyze in a suspect test at some point later down the line. It's too hard to judge how good 50% is when these setup 100% sets are so broken. There may be a portion of this due to Thousand Arrows, yes, so if Thousand Arrows ends up breaking normal Zygarde what we can do is ban Thousand Arrows and work from there. The issue at this point is the current iteration of Zygarde-C has the power to make games completely unplayable on its own unless you run the really niche Unaware counters, which don't work for most teams. It's too pressing to wait for a suspect test and I don't really think we lose too much by banning now, then reassessing if 50% Zygarde becomes a problem. Even if the 50% version functions similar, the bulk difference really does make it more manageable for teams to deal with because super effective moves can actually 2HKO it, as well as whatever other strong moves that can break it but not Zygarde-C (reminder that RestTalk is a limited recovery). Even if it might be broken, we can't know unless we take Zygarde-C out of the picture first. So logically the only way to prove what you're saying is to do exactly what I'm saying.