Well as I mentioned my only contention with EQ, Outrage and ES as your sole move is that they all have immunities, making Stone Edge the safest bet for a solo move. I mean, you could argue that after removing its counters it doesn't really matter what it runs does it lol? But certain sets have the capacity to be utilized earlier, like ES with priority users still around, or Lum Berry for status users/walls, etc. Its at the users discretion.
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Pokémon Zygarde
- Thread starter ChaosNemesis
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Yeah its better to try and make the set viable in all situations. Which is why for that double boosting set that focuses more on Zygarde's amazing bulk to set up and sweep i believe the edgequake combo provides him with the safest coverage. Most priority moves are physical none of which are super effective except for ice shard but with his great bulk he should be able to take the hit after a coil or two pretty easy especially if you have reflect support.
Well yes i meant if he is threatened by ice shard reflect will help in that situation. Light screen will be more valuable vs an ice beam. I wanted to point out how he can take an ice shard easier than ice beam due to coil and his higher defense stat. Lol of course always go for the dual screens.
Jaroda
If you can only put one move on your set, Dragon Claw by far is still your best and "safest" option. By and large, Fairy-types are pretty uncommon in OU outside of Azumarill because they overall have a low BST and few have secondary typings. Also, very endgame most steel-types will not be able to touch you. The majority of steel-types rely on their (mostly weak) attack stats to deal damage, which your naturally high defense and Coil boosts could repel. Outside of those two types, you can hit everything neutrally; a good thing for a Poke who will have an uninvested attack stat.
Stone Edge has low PP, a no-no for an endgame Pokemon. Since it is not STAB and since the crit mechanics have changed, you most likely will not be able to break through most physically defensive Pokemon endgame. Dragon Claw's increased power (120 vs 100), better accuracy, and extra PP (24+16(1/3)) vs (8+(1/3)) make it a much more suitable move for an endgame Coil Zygarde.
If you can only put one move on your set, Dragon Claw by far is still your best and "safest" option. By and large, Fairy-types are pretty uncommon in OU outside of Azumarill because they overall have a low BST and few have secondary typings. Also, very endgame most steel-types will not be able to touch you. The majority of steel-types rely on their (mostly weak) attack stats to deal damage, which your naturally high defense and Coil boosts could repel. Outside of those two types, you can hit everything neutrally; a good thing for a Poke who will have an uninvested attack stat.
Stone Edge has low PP, a no-no for an endgame Pokemon. Since it is not STAB and since the crit mechanics have changed, you most likely will not be able to break through most physically defensive Pokemon endgame. Dragon Claw's increased power (120 vs 100), better accuracy, and extra PP (24+16(1/3)) vs (8+(1/3)) make it a much more suitable move for an endgame Coil Zygarde.
After coil stone edge no longer has terrible accuracy.
Edit: Well stone edge doesnt have "terrible" accuracy to begin with but regardless its accuracy becomes fine after coil. Personally i don't think Zygarde can afford to run one attacking move anyways its other sets are more viable but this is just my opinion.
Edit: Well stone edge doesnt have "terrible" accuracy to begin with but regardless its accuracy becomes fine after coil. Personally i don't think Zygarde can afford to run one attacking move anyways its other sets are more viable but this is just my opinion.
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Too bad he doesn't learn Dragon Claw...
I'm pretty sure Klefki and Azumaril are in the top 10 and Florges and Togekiss are certainly OU as well. I used the term purely in regard to typing because again, no immunities, meaning it's safe in that it's guaranteed to deal damage to everything. I also don't understand your logic regarding PP being an issue for late game. That's when there are the fewest remaining mon around? What exactly do you expect to be able to take more than two +2-6 Stone Edges with a good crit rate?
This is all pointless anyway, cause I actually don't encourage mono-attack Zygarde whatsoever. Either Chesto Rest or CoilDance, Zygarde should always have at least two attacks.
Dragon Coil (Coil Dance) Zygarde:
Zygarde @ Lum Berry
Aura Break
Adamant 252 HP / 224 Atk / 32 Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Coil / Extreme Speed
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
Max HP lets Zygarde abuse its bulk while setting up while Lum Berry helps keep it healthy. 32 EVs in Speed give it 351 Speed after 1 Dragon Dance, allowing you to outspeed all base 110's after a Dragon Dance. The rest is dumped into Physical Attack to maximize damage output.
Zygarde @ Lum Berry
Aura Break
Adamant 252 HP / 224 Atk / 32 Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Coil / Extreme Speed
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
Max HP lets Zygarde abuse its bulk while setting up while Lum Berry helps keep it healthy. 32 EVs in Speed give it 351 Speed after 1 Dragon Dance, allowing you to outspeed all base 110's after a Dragon Dance. The rest is dumped into Physical Attack to maximize damage output.
Zygarde is good. This pokemon has been amazing to me even in Ubers.BUT Zygarde's ability is pointless as well because Say Xerneas fairy moves -20% but +20% after becaise of stab. Did Game Freak think that this ability would be pointless? Anyway. Glare then DD or Coiling i very useful. Watching your opponent struggle with paralysis whilst you become a power house then sweeping in UBERS. Zygarde is really good. If you gave his moveset to Garchomp. Like whoa. Imagine a DD Chomp with Espeed
Actually the auras increase the power of the respective type by 30% so he reverses them by 30% which in the end will make them 10% weaker not that it makes a huge difference.
I hope this guy isn't in ubers. I used the recommended set the OP gave as a bulky dragon-dancer and he is the anti-aegisslash.
Seriously, Aegisslash is a massive threat, but Zygarde pretty much does this to him each time (Amon = Zygarde in case you haven't figured out what I mean):
Seriously, Aegisslash is a massive threat, but Zygarde pretty much does this to him each time (Amon = Zygarde in case you haven't figured out what I mean):
I don't think we have to worry about him being sent to uber, and while I love the reference, a lot of aegislashes are switching to special and mixed sets. Also, there are plenty of other earthquake users and fire blasters to handle aegislash anyway
1. I meant that with BellyJet becoming increasingly popular, a slightly bulkier defensive azumaril could easily sweep any team.
2. Yeah i meant to say shallow instead, although I cannot predict this guy will get many turns to set up with his weakness to Azumaril which will be a staple on every team.
3. His stats recieve a distribution that leaves much to be desired.
108 100 121 81 95 95 seriously? 100 Base Attack ain't gonna cut it. While his HP and Defense are reasonable, I can only foresee him becoming a decent physical wall.
4. His weakness to fairy is what I think will be his downfall. A speedy Belly Drum + Play Rough Azumaril could easily OHKO him. A perfect check would look something like this~
Azumarill @ Leftovers
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Def / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Impish Nature
- Ice Punch
- Aqua Jet
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
+6 252 Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 1104-1302 (308.3 - 363.6%)
+6 252 Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 246-291 (68.7 - 81.2%)
+6 252 Atk Huge Power Azumarill Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 1228-1448 (343 - 404.4%)
252 Atk Huge Power Azumarill Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 312-368 (87.1 - 102.7%)
252+ Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 126-148 (36.8 - 43.2%)
I make my point.
"Speedy Belly Jet"
"Doesn't put any investment in speed"
Of course a +6 SE hit is going to obliterate him thats a fact of life, nothing wants to take a Play Rough from Azumarill ever. In order for your "Speedy" (Pretty sure you meant Bulky) set to do ANY good, Azumarill needs to A) Set up Safely (2 Espeeds kill at 50% and you lack Sitrus) and B hope Zygarde has not set up a Coil. given neither of those is gonna happen unless your Azumarill is sweeping anyway, this isn't a check in the slightest. there is no way i can see this thing Checking Zygarde.
Zygarde also can't play a wall, he has no real form of recovery. he's a bulky sweeper and he has the right tools for the job. i can also see a sub para shuffler set working decently. need to test that.
"Doesn't put any investment in speed"
Of course a +6 SE hit is going to obliterate him thats a fact of life, nothing wants to take a Play Rough from Azumarill ever. In order for your "Speedy" (Pretty sure you meant Bulky) set to do ANY good, Azumarill needs to A) Set up Safely (2 Espeeds kill at 50% and you lack Sitrus) and B hope Zygarde has not set up a Coil. given neither of those is gonna happen unless your Azumarill is sweeping anyway, this isn't a check in the slightest. there is no way i can see this thing Checking Zygarde.
Zygarde also can't play a wall, he has no real form of recovery. he's a bulky sweeper and he has the right tools for the job. i can also see a sub para shuffler set working decently. need to test that.
Azumarill sucks against Zygarde. Unboosted aqua jets, play roughs, and ice beams don't deal enough damage to change the fact that its 2HKO'd by earthquake, and Azumarill won't be able to use belly drum because if it does he'll never survive 1 earthquake (even with a sitrus berry set, earthquake + extreme speed KO it easily). On the flip side, nobody in their right mind would switch a Zygarde into a belly drummed Azumarill and expect to survive. He'd be better for revenge killing him with extreme speed if you manage to get it down to about 30%
Terminate421 that was a great reference i completely agree lmao XD. We wont have to worry about him in ubers anyway he'll be fine in OU
On a separate note there is no reason to hate on Zygarde he is a great Pokemon with great stat distribution(unlike goodra) and he has an amazing movepool. He has immense bulk and if its a one one against and azumarill Zygarde wins 9/10 times. I know Kairyu_Gen1 has already posted the reasons above but im just completely agreeing with him on his points. He's also an anti aegislash and talonflame especially after coil.
Isnt azumarill's attack after huge power 100 so i mean there in the same boat.
On a separate note there is no reason to hate on Zygarde he is a great Pokemon with great stat distribution(unlike goodra) and he has an amazing movepool. He has immense bulk and if its a one one against and azumarill Zygarde wins 9/10 times. I know Kairyu_Gen1 has already posted the reasons above but im just completely agreeing with him on his points. He's also an anti aegislash and talonflame especially after coil.
Isnt azumarill's attack after huge power 100 so i mean there in the same boat.
That's not how huge power works. It doubles the ACTUAL attack stat, not the base attack. With max attack and adamant Azumarill has 218 attack initially, which gets doubled to 436. That's 2 points short of max attack adamant Groudon. Max attack adamant Zygarde has 328 attack; it's not even close.
lol
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 456-536 (119 - 139.9%)
252+ Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 180-213 (44.5 - 52.7%)
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Oh well i refrain from what i said but either way he's going to need to use belly drum already leaving him at 50%(75% if using sitrus berry) which should make it easier for Zygarde to kill off.
Edit: ^ I assumed without a choice band sorry in tht case your right. I run my azumarill with sitrus to increase longetivity after belly drum. Also in the case there was no choice band wouldnt Zygarde outspeed and 2HKO. :p Also if azumarill is coming in on the switch it has to eat an earthquake or that give Z a opportunity to boost which means more damage to Azu.
Edit: ^ I assumed without a choice band sorry in tht case your right. I run my azumarill with sitrus to increase longetivity after belly drum. Also in the case there was no choice band wouldnt Zygarde outspeed and 2HKO. :p Also if azumarill is coming in on the switch it has to eat an earthquake or that give Z a opportunity to boost which means more damage to Azu.
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I think the better question is, who lets Azumarill get a rough play off on Zygarde?
Any smart user of this monster will have taken the opportunity to do one of the following:
Dragon Dancer: Gotten off at least ONE dragon Dance upon them using Belly Drum
Coil: Used Dragontail to Phaze it out.
As for choice band, why use Zygarde to stop Azumarill? This is like using Weavile against Mach Punch Equipped Lucario.
You can try using Dragon Tail on Azumarill. You won't like the results. Zygarde has no business doing anything to Azumarill.
um, did you even read my last post (#270)? Azumarill and Zygarde would prefer to not fight each other, but if they do, Azumarill will lose unless it somehow gets boosts without taking damage (band is the only real option, but that risks getting locked into aquajet that Zygarde can take like a pro).
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Zygarde: 456-536 (108.5 - 127.6%)
Don't talk like CB Azumarill isn't more viable than Belly Drum Azumarill anyway. Azumarill hardly 'loses' to Zygarde.
Yeah fairies are immune to dragon but seriously no smart player would leave their Zygarde on Azumarill if the matchup is as bad as you make it out to be 5 other pokemon to handle that threat. Zygarde is still fulfills his role as a bulky sweeper. If azumarill is switching in to Zygarde he has an opportunity to boost or azu has to eat an earthquake which could potentially already be boosted.
Edit: concerning choice band it could already be locked into aqua jet which Zygarde can take dont forget that
Edit: concerning choice band it could already be locked into aqua jet which Zygarde can take dont forget that
Epic fail. I'm still getting used to the new fairys.
Still, why prepare him for something he shouldn't be going up against?
We need to focus on his strengths.
we saw that stat in your last post, and I'm not saying banded Azu is outclassed by Belly Drum (but it is outclass by banded craudaunt). I'm just saying that the majority of times my Zygarde fights Azumarills, he wins. Not always, not some times, most of the time. Saying that Azumarill is a reason to not use Zygarde is like saying you shouldn't use Salamence when there's Dragonites out there. Yes it has a couple sets that can beat you, but they are 2 pokemon that are dangerous to each other and shouldn't be allowed to meet unless forced to, or you can guarantee victory (Maybe not the best example, but its late and I haven't slept in 36 hours because I had to fly in for class this morning). If anything, the sort of stale mate between the two just proves Zygarde's viability, as Azumarill is definitely OU, and Zygarde can go toe to toe with it in most conditions (band set is one set out of many, and not even the most popular, so I'm leaving it as a draw - no clear winner)
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