Pokémon Zygarde

[WhiteyMcFly]

Despite the existence of Fairy type, I would actually go ahead and suggest a sort of "Cro-Garde" set.

Zygarde@Leftovers
Nature: Careful
252 HP/252 SpD/4 Atk
Rest
Sleep talk
Dragon Tail
Coil

This set sacrifices the ability to hit almost any opponent for the ability to be an annoying prick to your opponent. Certainly; it is a requirement to deal with any and all Fairy types on your opponent's team before trying to set up with this guy, but once that happens this thing can be a real pain to deal with. One of CroCune's main issues was that other Calm Minders could set up alongside it, and it was somewhat vulnerable to being phazed if it didn't have enough boosts to OHKO with Surf/Scald. With CroGarde, that is no longer an issue, as Zygarde has enough speed to outpace most Pokemon that run phasing moves. The EV spread and nature follow similar logic to the EV spread used by Cro-Cune: put as much natural bulk as you can into the defense that you can't boost.

Entry hazard support is practically essential for this sort of set to work. Good partners for this set include any Pokemon with powerful Steel or Poison moves to deal with prevalent Fairy types. Gengar receives a special mention here for its ability to trap opponents (if Mega), as does Magnezone for its ability to trap the ever-annoying Klefki and threaten Azumarill. Although it doesn't necessarily beat Fairy types on its own, Skarmory also serves as a powerful partner to Zygarde. Its ability to set up entry hazards and take physical hits that will likely be coming Zygarde's way from the likes of Mamoswine, Azumarill, Dragonite, and Garchomp are greatly appreciated.

 

[Jaroda]

Serious question. Have you extensively used Zygarde or are you just talking out of your butt and completely theorymoning? I've been in the top 10 of both PS and PO so while neither ladder is impressive I can at least talk from experience when I say this thing can set up EASILY.

It only requires 152 Speed EVs with a neutral nature to outpace 130s at +1 and everything relevant at +2 (and believe me it reaches +2 frequently). That leaves 104 HP EVs left, enough to allow you to survive Scarf Garchomp Outrage (just an example of its bulk, not a hit I actually suggest taking). 252 Attack Adamant gives it 91% the power of Jolly Garchomp. Not spectacular but easily capable of sweeping at +1 and enough to OHKO Talonflame with Extremespeed at +1 with rocks (or you can just tank the Brave Bird / Acrobatics and DD again).

STAB Draco Meteor
STAB Outrage
LO Ice Beam

These are the three moves that can OHKO Zygarde. Zygarde can, with few exceptions, tank a hit from everything else. It has a LOT of bulk, more than even Hippowdon. It sets up easily on pretty much anything that doesn't have those moves. It doesn't have the sheer power to OHKO everything at +1 but it can do so late game. Its real strength is waiting until the opponent lacks those three moves or at least until their users are low on HP enough that Zygarde can just wipe them out. With them gone Zygarde can easily reach +2 or more allowing it to steamroll anything.

Stop comparing it to Garchomp. Yes it is a worse Garchomp but Garchomp is also a worse Zygarde. It only shares Garchomp's typing. Blissey isn't bad because it can't sweep as well as Tauros. Zygarde GETS DRAGON DANCE. It gets the best setup move in the game with the sheer bulk required to use it alongside the best offensive typing you could wish for. Zygarde walks all over teams late game. Garchomp can not do this.

After reading 80% of this thread I'm sold on the Coil/ESpeed/EQ/Stone Edge set. I've tried using Garchomp this gen, and I've even tried some variants of Megachomp with Sand support. Both were underwhelming.

But tell me what would be more useful, Leftovers or a Dragon/Ice resist berry? Leftovers heals over time but those berries could theoretically give Zygarde just the health it needs to get that one extra boost better ensuring an ESpeed sweep. I guess it depends on which is more prevalent, Dragon or Ice moves. He should definitely switch out of threatening special Ice attacks regardless, but even a Draco Meteor on the special side is only 2x effective, so with the berry limiting the damage and their SpA drop you're likely good to go at that point.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

I'm running a
Zygarde @ Life Orb
Adamant, 252 atk / 252 spd
-earthquake
-extremespeed
-coil
-crunch

but I'm debating the 4th slot as I only ever use it on ghosts and I need a Skarmory counter

 

[Goodbar]

I honestly don't think a resttalk set is worth it after having used it myself. It has nice bulk, but it's defensive typing really isn't anything to brag about. It's not that strong either, so while it's "kinda" sponging hits it's not really doing much back. There are Pokemon that can do what he does so much better without actually having to use resttalk and having more utility (Skarmory and Avalugg both have more physical bulk, access to moves like Spikes/Rapid Spin/Roar, and reliable recover along with good damaging moves/STAB)

 

[adu]

Let's take this thing as a Tank. A Tank, not a sweeping Garchomp copy, a tank. It shares nothing else with Garchomp other than type. If we were to compare by type, we would be comparing Altaria with Salamence (1 point to me for recalling the existence of Altaria).
As a tank, it's got excellent defenses; more than Hippowdon. And in terms of offenses, it's only SLIGHTLY lower than things like the aforementioned Hippowdon or Flygon, but it has two excellent methods of boosting said 'merely decent' attack, so that's ok.
But it has something no tank really has; Speed. Base 95 (this is according to Showdown, some say it's even greater than that at 102!) is absolutely incredible for a Tank, it can outrun basic things easily, such as Blissey and Skarmory, and even more threatening things like Conkeldurr and if this 102 thing is true, even Salamence! AND it gets a resistance to Stealth Rock, as well as brilliant Priority (suck it Talonflame).

So now let's compare it to various things:
It may not be as powerful (slightly less powerful) as Hippowdon, and it may not share its niche of sandstorm, but it is faster, has better defenses and a methods of boosting.
It may not have Garchomps huge Attack stat, but it has similar speed, exponentially higher defenses and arguably better means of boosting AS WELL AS priority (hypocritical of me to compare it to Garchomp, I know, but for the sake of emphasis...)
It may not have the right support moves or as good typing as a wall like Skarmory, but with such good attack and durability, it is unneeded.

Zygarde does not boast being the topper of any given role in the metagame, but my god, it can mix up those roles and be a useful member of almost any team. That itself is worthy of merit. It's like that kid in class who doesn't really stand out in a particular subject but surprisingly gets an A+/A* in almost everything they do. Reason to use it would be as a Tank who can set up a lot THEN sweep, rather than set up once then go on and destroy teams.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

^going back to your Salamence/Altaria analogy, I think Zygarde does fit into the Dragon/Ground family like Dragonite fits into the Dragon/Flying family. Salamence and Garchomp are the best sweepers of the family due to having the best Atk and Spd, but Dragonite and Zygarde have the bulk that lets them fill a different role. I think your last paragraph is spot on analysis of what Zygarde can do, and I feel like he'll surprise a lot of people by what he can do.

Wait a minute, if Salamence = Garchomp and Dragonite = Zygarde, then does that mean Flygon = That 3rd one I can't remember?

Nah

 

[adu]

^You know what's up.
Flygon is the handicapped kid in the family who causes the oldest brother to verge on suicide and cause the father to sell meth.
But yeah, Zygarde is essentially a bulkier Dragonite with somewhat lower offenses.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Dragonite's kinda an obsession of mine, so when I saw this guy, I immediately saw some of the similarities and loved him. He lacks my main dragon's move pool, but his physical tanking and boosting abilities allow him a nice spot on my team.

 

[nyczxjay]

On a Coil, Earthquake, Stone Edge, ESpeed set, is it better to run Adamant 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def, or Careful 252 HP/ 4 Atk/ 252 SpD? I can see Adamant being useful so that Zygarde can act as a "sort of" revenge killer/check to fast sweepers with priority ESpeed without the need to set up a Coil, but I can see the merit in running Careful because of the extra bulk. What is the standard Coil spread people are running?

EDIT: I just looked back a few pages and I'm guessing Adamant is the popular choice?

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

In practice, your best plan is to pick a physical attacker to switch into and set up on, and then start ripping through them. The extra special bulk won't help you much and your best bet when dealing with counters is the hit hard and hit fast with either earthquake (for when your faster) or extremespeed (for when your not). Setting up on a special attacker is to be avoided if possible and having a special wall on your team is recommended to help with that.

 

[farranpoison]

^You know what's up.
Flygon is the handicapped kid in the family who causes the oldest brother to verge on suicide and cause the father to sell meth.
But yeah, Zygarde is essentially a bulkier Dragonite with somewhat lower offenses.

Yo, Flygon isn't that bad. I mean, it's no Garchomp, but it has its uses. Levitate, decent movepool and offense/speed. It's UU material, and that's nothing to be ashamed of.

On topic, has anyone actually discovered if Zygarde's Aura Lock or whatever ability works on your own Xerneas/Yveltal in Double Battles?

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

On topic, has anyone actually discovered if Zygarde's Aura Lock or whatever ability works on your own Xerneas/Yveltal in Double Battles?

It affects all pokemon on the field, so yes, it does:(

If you want to use Zygarde with Xerneas/Yveltal, you'll need to bring in the aura setters after Zygarde

 

[DarkestSamus]

On a Coil, Earthquake, Stone Edge, ESpeed set, is it better to run Adamant 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def, or Careful 252 HP/ 4 Atk/ 252 SpD? I can see Adamant being useful so that Zygarde can act as a "sort of" revenge killer/check to fast sweepers with priority ESpeed without the need to set up a Coil, but I can see the merit in running Careful because of the extra bulk. What is the standard Coil spread people are running?

EDIT: I just looked back a few pages and I'm guessing Adamant is the popular choice?

I asked this question already but it disappeared. The answer I got was:

Adamant 252 Atk is crucial for many Extremespeed KOs. As for the remaining EVs, I was actually recommended to use 252 Speed, mostly for those things that need Earthquake/Stone Edge KOs.

 

[Luigi player]

Tried Zygarde too now and it is really good. Sweeps through teams if you give it a few turns of setup. DD+Extremespeed is really really great and underrated. I've used that move-combo in gen 5 with Dragonite before and it worked really well. One thing it has over Dragonite is that it doesn't really care about Stealth Rock, while Dragonite fears it.
Zygarde has surprisingly good bulk and can shrug off a few hits while getting them boosts. Then it just sweeps everyone with EQ, Rock Slide, and Extremespeed (for priorities / faster Pokemon). In one battle I lead with it and started to boost and then beat the whole team lol. Not saying my opponents were the best, but this thing is good. You just need to get rid of a few things first if your opponent has them (Skarmory, Mamoswine (can be beaten if weakened enough), and probably some others, but from the few battles I had I ran into those 2)).

 

[Divergent]

Zygarde's an oddball IMO. It's got an Ubers worthy BST, excellent bulk, and an above average speed. However, I'm pretty sure this guy's staying in OU. It lacks the power to be a sweeper or wallbreaker, and not only that, the listed sets are walled by the most standard of standard physical walls. I guess it could (kind of) work as a late game sweeper after it gets a DD or two under its belt? The fast, powerful megas of gen VI and standard gen V sweepers definitely outshadow him though, as when it comes down to sweeping, his stats aren't exactly the greatest.

The Resttalk phazing set is great on paper, but Subroost Multiscale Dragonite and Resttalk Intimidate Gyarados tend to be a great deal more reliable and versatile because of their resistances and, most importantly, their abilities. Overall, this guy is definitely overshadowed by bigger, badder 'mons in OU. His typing and useless ability (in OU) and middling stats will probably make him a very rarely used OU poke.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Zygarde's an oddball IMO. It's got an Ubers worthy BST, excellent bulk, and an above average speed. However, I'm pretty sure this guy's staying in OU. It lacks the power to be a sweeper or wallbreaker, and not only that, the listed sets are walled by the most standard of standard physical walls. I guess it could (kind of) work as a late game sweeper after it gets a DD or two under its belt? The fast, powerful megas of gen VI and standard gen V sweepers definitely outshadow him though, as when it comes down to sweeping, his stats aren't exactly the greatest.

The Resttalk phazing set is great on paper, but Subroost Multiscale Dragonite and Resttalk Intimidate Gyarados tend to be a great deal more reliable and versatile because of their resistances and, most importantly, their abilities. Overall, this guy is definitely overshadowed by bigger, badder 'mons in OU. His typing and useless ability (in OU) and middling stats will probably make him a very rarely used OU poke.

There's 28 (counting megas) pokemon with a 600, bst, and 4 are in ubers, but besides that, everything you just said is true, if he's just trying to get off a couple Dragon Dances to sweep or just tank. But Zygarde's true value comes from a combination of his usable atk, high def, AND higher than expected speed. With a move like coil (which imo is superior to DD with this guy), Zygarde can set up on any physical attacker, which are pretty common this gen thanks to the Assault Vest, and launch +2 earthquakes to its heart's content. The critical moment is how you handle what they send to counter. Its usually a special attacker hoping for a revenge kill. If you outspeed them, obviously send an earthquake (or stone edge for flyers) and enjoy an easy kill. If you don't, you're probably up against a pretty fragile target that can be taken down by a +2 extremespeed. He's a little affraid of intimidate users, and powerful dragons (he doesn't get any good dragon attacks), but even they have trouble with this guy because they rely on physical attacks the grand majority of the time. Since he's so underrated, people often don't know how to deal with him, which just adds to his value. I don't think he's gonna be a ground breaking addition to the metagame like Aegislash or regular Blaziken (assuming he's OU this gen), but he's a powerful pokemon that will surprise a lot of people.

 

[Punchshroom]

My good friend told me about a set with Substitute / Coil / Earthquake / Dragon Tail (EVs not known). The concept itself sounds pretty damn terrifying when used against more defensive / balanced teams. Substitute can prevent status; Coil boosts power, bulk (to sustain the Sub better) and accuracy (Dragon Tail won't miss); Earthquake is for general STAB; Dragon Tail prevents slower Pokemon from phazing the Sub away (and hits airborne Pokes). Zygarde definitely has the bulk and Speed to pull this off effectively.

 

[Terminate421]

My good friend told me about a set with Substitute / Coil / Earthquake / Dragon Tail (EVs not known). The concept itself sounds pretty damn terrifying when used against more defensive / balanced teams. Substitute can prevent status; Coil boosts power, bulk (to sustain the Sub better) and accuracy (Dragon Tail won't miss); Earthquake is for general STAB; Dragon Tail prevents slower Pokemon from phazing the Sub away (and hits airborne Pokes). Zygarde definitely has the bulk and Speed to pull this off effectively.

Possible nature for that? I'm currently catching mine and I want a good nature because I only get one.

EDIT: Just realized Togekiss laughs at that set unfortunately. Extreme Speed might be a good alternative to dragon tail.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

My good friend told me about a set with Substitute / Coil / Earthquake / Dragon Tail (EVs not known). The concept itself sounds pretty damn terrifying when used against more defensive / balanced teams. Substitute can prevent status; Coil boosts power, bulk (to sustain the Sub better) and accuracy (Dragon Tail won't miss); Earthquake is for general STAB; Dragon Tail prevents slower Pokemon from phazing the Sub away (and hits airborne Pokes). Zygarde definitely has the bulk and Speed to pull this off effectively.

Also Substitute is going to lose effectiveness when pokebank comes out because just about every team will have a counter to it. Whether it be Infiltrator Crobat, Boomburst Noivern, or Hyper Voice Sylveon (there are a lot more options, those are just the one's already out and popular) that a set based on Substitute will be largely rendered void. Would have been great last gen though.

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

I love how Zygarde gets Dragon Pulse and Yveltal gets Dragon Rush... Both are moves that would be better on the other. (Although Dragon Pulse isn't really that good for Yveltal though). I'm just hoping that's a bug in the game because Zygarde is probably the only Pokemon that could ever use Dragon Rush effectively.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

I'm just hoping the next game gives it some variety via move tutors. Iron Head, Dual Chop, Super power, Stealth Rock, and Outrage would do wonders for his viability

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

I'm just hoping the next game gives it some variety via move tutors. Iron Head, Dual Chop, Super power, Stealth Rock, and Outrage would do wonders for his viability

Iron Head? More like Iron Tail.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Iron Head? More like Iron Tail.

I have a thing against iron tail (missing 4 times in a row) that means I'll NEVER use it, but I suppose other people will consider that a good point, especially with the coil accuracy boost

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

I have a thing against iron tail (missing 4 times in a row) that means I'll NEVER use it, but I suppose other people will consider that a good point

Well, Iron Tail would actually be good on Zygarde because of Coil.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Well, Iron Tail would actually be good on Zygarde because of Coil.

good point, and

If tutors taught this thing dragon rush,then dragon rush+coil would be its definite niche with boosted,(near)perfectly accurate dragon rushes.

I cannot believe Troll Freak didn't give this to us