DP Spiritomb (hooray for dual meanings)

[Jumpman16]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/spiritomb

Spiritomb@Leftovers
252HP/252Def/4SpA
Nature: Bold
~ Calm Mind
~ Dark Pulse
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk


People like IPL (aka Council/Doorman/[KD8]otome/Sarcastic The Third/stop making so many nicknames) and goof and and mop and aldaron have attested to the efficacy of this set, and I have had the pleasure of seeing it used first hand in a high-level (both battlers were good though I can't remember who they were, iirc ipl was one of them). On paper, Spiritomb is a spin blocker because it's a Ghost-type On paper, any poke with Rest/Sleep Talk is a status absorber. And on paper, any pokemon with the defenses and typing to do so can work with Resttalk + a stat up move + a STAB attack, a la Crocune (a Resttalk/CM/Surf Suicune compliments largely of Cromat for those of you not in the know) from Advance.

The last job can really only be carried out by pokemon like Suicune and, to a lesser extent, Machamp and Gyarados, but I really, really feel that the ease with which Spiritomb can carry out the other two jobs make a "Crotomb" set very viable in today's metagame. Further, I also feel that spin blocking and status taking, in a SR and status-heavy metagame (Scarfgar and Toxic Spikes abound), make fitting this Spiritomb on one's team all the easier.

What do you guys think? Have any of you seen/used this in play yet?

 

[Mekkah]

Rest/Sleep Talk Spiritomb isn't even on the dex yet, despite the fact it's been standard for a while (people ripping off Obi's stall team). and imo more reliable than Pain Split.

To prevent slashitis we could do two Rest/Sleep Talk sets, since Obi's (Shadow Ball/HP Fighting) obviously deserves mention as well as Sleep Talked Will-o-Wisps. Don't know if anyone has experience with that, but I know it worked on Dusclops in Advance!

 

[Blue Kirby]

Unless I'm mistaken, "status" in Jumpman's post was supposed to be "stat up" judging by its reference to Crocune. So instead of Sleep Talking Will-O-Wisp, you'd be aiming to Sleep Talk Calm Mind to hit stuff with boosted Dark Pulses.

This type of set works well a fair few bulky Pokemon that I've used personally used in the past such as Gyarados, like you mentioned, so I don't see why it isn't viable on Spiritomb. However, I'll still be testing it out on Shoddy Battle rather than just basing my opinion on previous experiences.

As for the actual analysis, this set should definitely be differentiated from a Sleep Talk/Rest/HP Fighting/Shadow Ball set (which should also be included, as Mekkah said), since they have many fundamental differences.

EDIT: Actually, looking at the analysis, is there really any need for the current Sleep Talk set? Surely Spiritomb has better options than just trying to waste PP with Spite.

 

[Anti]

This is funny timing, 'cause KD24 just today PM'd me with a draft for a peer edit of Spiritomb (not much description, more questions) to try 'n' get the hp fight / shadow ball resttalker up there. I gave it a more efficient EV spread and it'll prob'ly be posted soon.

While I haven't seen this set (or even heard of it) it intrigues me. Bulking up on a pokemon that can't be rapid spun upon seems interesting, and devastating with toxic spikes.

 

[Jumpman16]

yeah i meant "stat up" not "status", hooray for linguistic typos. hope that didn't throw you off mukkuhawk, editing now

 

[Earthworm]

I know for a fact that this set is very capable of working, and I will be revealing my source for this quite soon.

It definitely deserves a spot on the Dex and I will certainly consider using this on some of my current and future teams!

Also, I don't think there are many better options for the attacking slot other than Dark Pulse (Shadow Ball would mean you would have to PP stall Blissey which doesn't really decrease its effectiveness but if a PP stall can be avoided then why not avoid it? Fight's Dark resist could be a problem but it isn't like many fighters besides Lucario and Heracross pose too much of a threat anyway!).

The only real downside to this set is if you are forced to switch for some reason while you are asleep you may be in trouble, as Spiritomb doesn't possess the extreme defenses of Suicune or the multitute of useful resists that Gyarados does, so when it comes back in it won't be very useful. Then again, it literally has "no weak"(nesses)...

This particular set of Spiritomb would be most effective accompanied by an Aromatherapy/Heal Bell user in my opinion, perhaps that should be mentioned (or perhaps not!).

edit: At the people mentioning Tyranitar, Lucario and other free switchins - the same applies for Crocune and ResTalk DD Waterfall Gyarados, except instead of being walled/set up on by Dark resistant Pokemon they are walled/set up on by Water Absorbant and Dry Skin Pokemon. Of course those Water types can most likely either outstall most of the Water absorbant and Dry Skin Pokemon or switch to a counter and come back later, which is why I still recommend a status healing move somewhere else on the team with DP Spiritomb. And in this Spiritomb's defence, Dark is a type nothing is immune to which obviously helps its chances of sweeping.

 

[RaikouLover]

Viable set, however, this set loses it's ability to counter Lucario. The Shadow Ball / HP Fighting varient does. Still, Crocune and Gyarados work successfuly because water is a great attacking type resisted by few pokemon. Dark Pulse has trouble against a multitude of deadly opponents (Tyranitar, Lucario, even Skarmory) who will shut this down quickly. Spritomb needs to get to +6/+6 to even start denting pokemon with dark pulse.

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

Yeah basically what RaikouLover said. Dark Pulse as the sole attacking moves gives too many top threats a free switch and a turn for setup. That doesn't mean it's not a viable set, only that you have to use it more carefully than say Crocune.

 

[kd24]

Heh I was going to post this set yesterday. Me and Anti were discussing it. Anyway Anti's EVS are very helpful.

EDIT: just made my own thread with this set of ours.

 

[Anti]

You should prob'y post that in a separate thread KD, even if they're the same Pokemon.

It accounts for the 30 Sp. Defense

I did a typo it would seem

 

[Great Sage]

I've used this set before, and it's mostly very effective except when Tyranitar comes in. It can set up on a lot of other stuff, though, and I've used this to reasonable success.

 

[kd24]

Anti you think so? I guess I can do another thread with another variation of Sleep Talk Spiritomb. Even with 3 different sets, each one does its own thing and is entirely different.

 

[husk]

I believe you were watching me vs phuquoph in the wcop. You really do need toxic spikes on the field to make this really useful. TS stops stuff like sub chomp and tar from taking advantage of you. Unfortunately this is pretty much a free switch in for Lucario regardless of what you do.

 

[maddog]

[SET]
name: Mono Attacker
move 1: Dark Pulse
move 2: Calm Mind
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This is a variation off the popular Suicune set. This set allows Spiritomb makes a great status absorber and an even better spin blocker. The idea is to boost up with Calm Mind, using Rest as necessary, and use Dark Pulse when you feel you have enough boosts. This set attempts to allow Spiritomb to tank and stall as long as possible, but the weakness of this set is the fact that you only have one attack.</p>

<p>It is recommended that you keep Toxic Spikes on the field when employing this strategy to prevent Tyranitar and Garchomp from getting a free switch in. It should also be noted that you lack a way to hit Lucario with this set. However, this Spiritomb is an effective counter to Starmie, Jirachi and Gengar, and is an effective staller with Pressure as well.</p>

I figured I might as well write up what everyone has been saying so it can be put up on the site sometime. Any edits I need to make to this writeup?

 

[maddog]

Any changes I should make? Or should I put it up on SCMS?

EDIT: Yeah I kinda figured. Thanks Geat Sage.

2nd edit: Whatever I just put it on SCMS.

 

[Great Sage]

Calling it "Crotomb" isn't really appropriate; Sleep Talk/Calm Mind Suicune is sometimes called Crocune because a user named Cromat invented it. It does not mean that everything that used Sleep Talk/Calm Mind is going to be called "Cro-something". Just use a simple title that describes the set, like "Mono Attacker" or something.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

That Spiritomb is mostly meant for a stall team, which means its goal isn't to stop Lucario and Tyranitar or even sweep. But our stall teams (mine and husk) were lacking in Jirachi coverage so we figured let's just CM up with it and stall it out of Bolts. For Ttar and Lucario, we had random stuff like Swampert, Forretress, Gliscor and Weezing. It was never a goal to sweep, but it just seemed to work extremely well in the team it was fitted for.

P.S. Rest/Sleep Talk/Roar/Surf Suicune was used in GSC, are we willing removing one obvious move for another move and reclaiming it? =/

 

[maddog]

Awesome thanks MoP. I'll edit that in and post it to the SCMS now.

EDIT: This is what I put up.

[SET]
name: Mono Attacker
move 1: Dark Pulse
move 2: Calm Mind
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is a variation off the popular Suicune set that uses Calm Mind, Rest, Sleep Talk, and Surf. This set allows Spiritomb makes a great status absorber and an even better spin blocker. The idea is to boost up and stall with Calm Mind, and use Dark Pulse when you need to attack. Rest helps keep Spiritomb at high health, and is much more reliable than Pain Split. This set attempts to allow Spiritomb to tank and stall as long as possible, but the weakness of this set is the single attack.</p>

<p>It is recommended that you set Toxic Spikes on the field when employing this strategy to prevent Tyranitar and Garchomp from getting a free switch in. It should also be noted that you lack a way to hit Lucario with this set. However, this Spiritomb is an effective counter to Starmie, Jirachi and Gengar, and is an effective staller with Pressure as well.</p>

 

[jrrrrrrr]

It is a perfectly viable set with Spiritomb's defenses, but with the huge amount of common pokemon that can set up on its Dark-type attacks and sweep, I would be very cautious about using it. This set is pretty much a free switch-in for Heracross, Lucario, Infernape, Machamp, Tyranitar, Skarmory, etc, all of which can do serious damage to Spiritomb (or anything you switch in to counter them) through boosting up or spiking while taking next to no damage from the resisted, weak Dark Pulse that Spiritomb would fire off with 0 or 1 Calm Mind(s) and no SpAtk investment. Spiritomb just doesn't have an offensive typing and it is almost a waste to use it like this. The chances that you will actually get to stat-up enough to make an impact are pretty low without some *serious* team support, and I feel like that should be emphasized more in the analysis entry that maddog so generously wrote up.

That, and the fact that this set is easily phazed by pretty much every common phazer in OU. This set can't touch Skarmory, Suicune, Zapdos, Swampert, Hippowdon at all, and Spiritomb will just be racking up spikes damage while making an attempt to do anything.

I can't say that I would be comfortable enough with giving that many of the most potent offensive threats free attacks, but hey, that's just my style. This set could be effective against a stall team, though, since most special walls (Blissey, Celebi) cant touch it while taking loads of damage from CM-boosted STABbed Dark Pulses.

The reason why Crocune works so well is because Water is an extremely good attacking type, resisted by only Water and Grass and forcing switches to the common Ground, Rock and Fire types allowing for free CMs. Even a weakened Zapdos would have a really tough time dealing with it. Whereas Dark is easily resisted by the ever common Steel, Fighting and other Dark types and does not pose a Super Effective! threat except to Psychics (hardly used) and Ghost (which comes down to pretty much Gengar and Dusknoir). Crocune forced switches, whereas Spiritomb is only going to force something like Gengar or Starmie out, and even then they could stay in to batter you since Pursuit Spiritomb is a common set.

One more thing, does that have enough SpAtk to beat Blissey 1-on-1 after 6 CMs? Sure, Pressure could stall it out of Softboileds eventually, but you could just as easily be stalled out of Dark Pulses as well. Suicune also has pressure and often finds itself struggling to win stall wars against Blissey.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

I guess the part where it's best used with Toxic Spikes is the part where Blissey fails against stalling stat uppers.

We can play the list counters that free switches on (insert stat upper) all day long. But the point is, it's usable in a certain type of team, which applies to EVERY Poke. Why is anyone comparing Suicune to this as one of the main reasons you'd use Spiritomb in the first place is to block Rapid Spin. After you've decided you want to block Rapid Spin, you pick Spiritomb, then you pick a set. This is just one of the sets you can pick. That's all there is to it. The second Suicune starts blocking Rapid Spin, we'll talk.

 

[Earthworm]

I know for a fact that this set is very capable of working, and I will be revealing my source for this quite soon.

Round 2 of Mono Tournament: TAY's Mono Ghost vs Venom's Mono Psychic from the entry of ResTalk CM Spiritomb.

---
Pimp Cup switched in Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
TAY switched in Gengar (lvl 100 Gengar ?).
Pointed stones dug into Gengar.
Gengar lost 12% of its health.
Azelf used Shadow Ball.
It's super effective!
Gengar lost 88% of its health.
TAY's Gengar fainted.
---
TAY switched in Spiritomb (lvl 100 Spiritomb ?).
Spiritomb is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Spiritomb.
Spiritomb lost 12% of its health.
Pimp Cup switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Jirachi was hurt by Spikes!
Jirachi lost 12% of its health.
Spiritomb used Calm Mind.
Spiritomb's special attack was raised.
Spiritomb's special defence was raised.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Jirachi used Body Slam.
It doesn't affect Spiritomb...
Spiritomb used Calm Mind.
Spiritomb's special attack was raised.
Spiritomb's special defence was raised.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Pimp Cup: wth
Jirachi used U-turn.
Spiritomb lost 14% of its health.
Pimp Cup switched in Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Spiritomb used Calm Mind.
Spiritomb's special attack was raised.
Spiritomb's special defence was raised.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Azelf used U-turn.
Spiritomb lost 18% of its health.
Pimp Cup switched in Bronzong (lvl 100 Bronzong).
Spiritomb used Dark Pulse.
Bronzong lost 54% of its health.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
Bronzong's leftovers restored its health a little!
Bronzong restored 6% of its health.
---
Spiritomb used Dark Pulse.
Bronzong lost 53% of its health.
Pimp Cup's Bronzong fainted.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Pimp Cup switched in Starmie (lvl 100 Starmie).
Starmie was hurt by Spikes!
Starmie lost 12% of its health.
Starmie used Surf.
Spiritomb lost 15% of its health.
Spiritomb used Dark Pulse.
It's super effective!
Starmie lost 70% of its health.
Pimp Cup's Starmie fainted.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Pimp Cup switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Jirachi was hurt by Spikes!
Jirachi lost 12% of its health.
Jirachi used U-turn.
Spiritomb lost 14% of its health.
Pimp Cup switched in Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Spiritomb used Dark Pulse.
It's super effective!
Azelf lost 100% of its health.
Pimp Cup's Azelf fainted.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Pimp Cup switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Jirachi was hurt by Spikes!
Jirachi lost 12% of its health.
Jirachi used U-turn.
Spiritomb lost 14% of its health.
Spiritomb used Dark Pulse.
Jirachi lost 45% of its health.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Jirachi used U-turn.
Spiritomb lost 14% of its health.
Spiritomb used Dark Pulse.
Jirachi lost 36% of its health.
Pimp Cup's Jirachi fainted.
TAY wins!
Pimp Cup has left the room.
TAY: gg

Round 3 of Mono Tournament: TAY's Mono Dark vs Rojo23's Mono Water from the entry of ResTalk CM Spiritomb.

---
TAY switched in Spiritomb (lvl 100 Spiritomb ?).
Spiritomb is exerting its pressure!
Kingdra used Rain Dance.
Rain began to fall!
Spiritomb used Calm Mind.
Spiritomb's special attack was raised.
Spiritomb's special defence was raised.
The rain continues to fall.
---
Kingdra used Surf.
Spiritomb lost 45% of its health.
Spiritomb used Calm Mind.
Spiritomb's special attack was raised.
Spiritomb's special defence was raised.
The rain continues to fall.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Kingdra used Surf.
Spiritomb lost 31% of its health.
Spiritomb used Rest.
Spiritomb fell asleep!
Spiritomb restored 69% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
---
Rojo23 switched in Azumarill (lvl 100 Azumarill ?).
Spiritomb is fast asleep!
Spiritomb used Sleep Talk.
Spiritomb used Shadow Ball.
Azumarill lost 53% of its health.
Azumarill's special defence was lowered.
The rain continues to fall.
Azumarill's leftovers restored its health a little!
Azumarill restored 6% of its health.
---
Azumarill used Waterfall.
Spiritomb lost 64% of its health.
Spiritomb is fast asleep!
Spiritomb used Sleep Talk.
Spiritomb used Shadow Ball.
Azumarill lost 53% of its health.
Rojo23's Azumarill fainted.
The rain stopped.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Rojo23 switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
Swampert used Earthquake.
Spiritomb lost 32% of its health.
Spiritomb woke up!
Spiritomb used Rest.
Spiritomb fell asleep!
Spiritomb restored 89% of its health.
---
Rojo23: oh lord
Junior: go tay
Swampert used Earthquake.
Spiritomb lost 32% of its health.
Spiritomb is fast asleep!
Spiritomb used Sleep Talk.
Spiritomb used Shadow Ball.
Swampert lost 46% of its health.
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Swampert used Earthquake.
Spiritomb lost 30% of its health.
Spiritomb is fast asleep!
Spiritomb used Sleep Talk.
Spiritomb used Rest.
But it failed!
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Swampert used Earthquake.
Spiritomb lost 29% of its health.
Spiritomb woke up!
Spiritomb used Rest.
Spiritomb fell asleep!
Spiritomb restored 78% of its health.
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
---
Swampert used Earthquake.
Spiritomb lost 29% of its health.
Spiritomb is fast asleep!
Spiritomb used Sleep Talk.
Spiritomb used Shadow Ball.
Swampert lost 46% of its health.
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Swampert used Earthquake.
Spiritomb lost 31% of its health.
Spiritomb is fast asleep!
Spiritomb used Sleep Talk.
Spiritomb used Rest.
But it failed!
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Swampert used Earthquake.
Spiritomb lost 31% of its health.
Spiritomb woke up!
Spiritomb used Rest.
Spiritomb fell asleep!
Spiritomb restored 77% of its health.
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
---
Swampert used Earthquake.
Spiritomb lost 32% of its health.
Spiritomb is fast asleep!
Spiritomb used Sleep Talk.
Spiritomb used Rest.
But it failed!
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Rojo23 switched in Suicune (lvl 100 Suicune).
Suicune is exerting its pressure!
Spiritomb is fast asleep!
Spiritomb used Sleep Talk.
Spiritomb used Calm Mind.
Spiritomb's special attack was raised.
Spiritomb's special defence was raised.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Suicune used Rain Dance.
Rain began to fall!
Spiritomb woke up!
Spiritomb used Shadow Ball.
Suicune lost 45% of its health.
Suicune's special defence was lowered.
The rain continues to fall.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Suicune used Surf.
Spiritomb lost 19% of its health.
Spiritomb used Shadow Ball.
Suicune lost 55% of its health.
Rojo23's Suicune fainted.
The rain continues to fall.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Rojo23 switched in Kingdra (lvl 100 Kingdra ?).
Kingdra used Surf.
Spiritomb lost 25% of its health.
Spiritomb used Rest.
Spiritomb fell asleep!
Spiritomb restored 50% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
---
Kingdra used Surf.
Spiritomb lost 28% of its health.
Spiritomb is fast asleep!
Spiritomb used Sleep Talk.
Spiritomb used Shadow Ball.
A critical hit!
Kingdra lost 73% of its health.
Rojo23's Kingdra fainted.
The rain continues to fall.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Junior: oh wow hahaha
Rojo23: omg
Rojo23 switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
Spiritomb is fast asleep!
Spiritomb used Sleep Talk.
Spiritomb used Calm Mind.
Spiritomb's special attack was raised.
Spiritomb's special defence was raised.
Swampert used Avalanche.
Spiritomb lost 12% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
Swampert restored 6% of its health.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Spiritomb woke up!
Spiritomb used Shadow Ball.
Swampert lost 58% of its health.
Rojo23's Swampert fainted.
The rain continues to fall.
Spiritomb's leftovers restored its health a little!
Spiritomb restored 6% of its health.
---
Rojo23 switched in Starmie (lvl 100 Starmie).
Rojo23: gg i guess
TAY: gg
Starmie used Ice Beam.
A critical hit!
Spiritomb lost 53% of its health.
Spiritomb used Shadow Ball.
It's super effective!
Starmie lost 100% of its health.
Rojo23's Starmie fainted.
TAY wins!

Although these aren't exactly standard OU logs, they definitely show this Spiritomb (although in the second case the Spiritomb has Shadow Ball) to have potential!

I find it a bit ironic that maddog named the set Mono Attacker before I posted these logs ¬¬

 

[jrrrrrrr]

@aeroblacktyl-

I know that, and I mentioned everything that you said in my post already. I mentioned Blissey because Toxic Spikes are not always guaranteed, and this set relies on them so much to do anything. It is usable, I agree, but it can only fill a very specific niche and only then with quite a bit of team support. The analysis, I feel, should emphasize the fact that this is a team player first and an attacker second. Maybe changing the name from "mono attacker" could do this. It's accurate, but I dont think that was what the set was designed for and it could be misleading.

Obviously, every pokemon has counters. That is a no-brainer. But the amount of heavy-hitting counters that this set will lure out with the lack of "annoying" moves like w-o-w, Pain Split, Hypnosis etc is very high and not taking that into consideration would spell doom very quickly.

@maddog-

This set allows Spiritomb makes a great status absorber and an even better spin blocker. The idea is to boost up and stall with Calm Mind, and use Dark Pulse when you need to attack.

Using its ability to block Rapid Spin for free switch-ins is the idea, boosting comes second. This isn't an offensive pokemon.

Rest helps keep Spiritomb at high health, and is much more reliable than Pain Split. This set attempts to allow Spiritomb to tank and stall as long as possible, but the weakness of this set is the single attack.

that is a weakness of the set, but there are many more weaknesses than that. Another weakness (that you have mentioned a portion of) is that Spiritomb is just asking for any Fighting, Dark or Steel type to come in and set up on you. Another glaring weakness is that it can be phazed very easily and be forced to start over. This is why you need to use it as a spin blocker first and not as an attacker. If you come out and try to boost right away, your opponent is going to keep their counter for as long as they can and stop you from doing this, or better yet just lure you out with the rapid spinner and then double switch and continue slamming your team around.

It is recommended that you set Toxic Spikes on the field when employing this strategy to prevent Tyranitar and Garchomp from getting a free switch in. It should also be noted that you lack a way to hit Lucario with this set.

Well, you can hit Lucario...just not very hard lol. You really need to emphasize that your team MUST be able to handle the onslaught of physical attacks that will be drawn out by this set. Toxic Spikes will help, but Tyranitar and Garchomp (and just as importantly, Heracross and Infernape) will still be able to come in for free and cause serious damage at least three or four times. Toxic Spikes aren't the end-all savior for this set. I feel that this set damages prediction more than it damages the other team, which is extremely useful in the hands of a good player.

I know that should be mentioned in the "Counters" section but I feel as if the other sets don't open themselves up as much as this one does to its counters (because of w-o-w, hypnosis etc) and this fact should be stressed more. It is not a set that a beginner could use easily, unlike Suicune's variant which can single-handedly sweep at pretty much any point in a match.

 

[maddog]

@aeroblacktyl-

I know that, and I mentioned everything that you said in my post already. I mentioned Blissey because Toxic Spikes are not always guaranteed, and this set relies on them so much to do anything. It is usable, I agree, but it can only fill a very specific niche and only then with quite a bit of team support. The analysis, I feel, should emphasize the fact that this is a team player first and an attacker second. Maybe changing the name from "mono attacker" could do this. It's accurate, but I dont think that was what the set was designed for and it could be misleading.

Obviously, every pokemon has counters. That is a no-brainer. But the amount of heavy-hitting counters that this set will lure out with the lack of "annoying" moves like w-o-w, Pain Split, Hypnosis etc is very high and not taking that into consideration would spell doom very quickly.

@maddog-
Using its ability to block Rapid Spin for free switch-ins is the idea, boosting comes second. This isn't an offensive pokemon.



that is a weakness of the set, but there are many more weaknesses than that. Another weakness (that you have mentioned a portion of) is that Spiritomb is just asking for any Fighting, Dark or Steel type to come in and set up on you. Another glaring weakness is that it can be phazed very easily and be forced to start over. This is why you need to use it as a spin blocker first and not as an attacker. If you come out and try to boost right away, your opponent is going to keep their counter for as long as they can and stop you from doing this, or better yet just lure you out with the rapid spinner and then double switch and continue slamming your team around.



Well, you can hit Lucario...just not very hard lol. You really need to emphasize that your team MUST be able to handle the onslaught of physical attacks that will be drawn out by this set. Toxic Spikes will help, but Tyranitar and Garchomp (and just as importantly, Heracross and Infernape) will still be able to come in for free and cause serious damage at least three or four times. Toxic Spikes aren't the end-all savior for this set. I feel that this set damages prediction more than it damages the other team, which is extremely useful in the hands of a good player.

I know that should be mentioned in the "Counters" section but I feel as if the other sets don't open themselves up as much as this one does to its counters (because of w-o-w, hypnosis etc) and this fact should be stressed more. It is not a set that a beginner could use easily, unlike Suicune's variant which can single-handedly sweep at pretty much any point in a match.

Fair enough. When this gets cached, I'll edit it a little to say it has specific uses. Toxic Spikes are necessary on this set, but as you said, it's for a stall team. Just because Dark Pulse is my only attack doesn't mean I can't wear down stuff like Infernape when they switch in. The basis of the stalling team that this would be apart of would have more than just Toxic Spikes support, it would probably have SS and at least Stealth Rock. By Spiritomb just being out there and causing switches and stalling for Toxic and SS damage is exactly doing its job. I feel its uses at stalling are more late game, but its primary purpose (like I said in my little writeup) is just to outstall other Calm Minders, Spinners, Azelf, Gengar, ect. Even though there are plenty of Pokes that would love to switch into this "for free", they are taking damage, which is futher accomplishing my goal. As for counters for physical attackers, I'm going to have them if I am playing a stall team, so I think mentioning that might be a little redunant. Spiritomb in general has more specific uses for countering than many other Pokes, and this is just a role it can fill.

 

[obi]

Some of those Pokemon (for instance, Machamp) are the ones walled if they come in on Spiritomb, not the other way around. Seriously, what is Machamp going to do? Spiritomb just uses CM 6 times, Resting off any damage. Machamp will quickly run out of PP on its attacks.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Machamp may be an exception, as I was just listing off common fighting types. That, and Taunt Heatran/Taunt DDGyara/etc also shut it down. But overall the point still stands that it draws in bulky physical attackers that are really dangerous to entire teams, whereas Spiritomb has to rely on other pokemon to do significant damage to these counters with this set. It needs other pokemon to set up rocks/spikes/tspikes. When it has other moves the counters can be worked around, but if you are using this set to sweep then it is just a liability to your team.