Minor corrections to your list. Syclant is neutral to fighting for the same reason scizor is, its a bug. Also Heatran gets handled by water just as well. So fightings only really contribution is trading super effective STAB against Blissey in exhange for letting Rev and Zapdos come in on it either with immunity or resistance.
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CAP 6 CAP 6 - Part 3 - Secondary Type Discussion
- Thread starter darkie
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I think this is really an important point. We want to focus on the top 5 first and foremost and worry about the other half only if they can completly ruin our concerns for dealing with the top 5. I really think fighting is a poor choice with this in mind. Yes we create a complete counter for Tar and can switch in on strata with a resist. However Offensivly fighting doesnt do anything to the top 5 that water doesnt and it allows Zapdos and Rev come in with minumal threat to their safety and potentially set up on it.
If we are really concerned about the rocks as crazy as it sounds I think Water/Ghost is a better choice.
Cept Skymin is probably Uber for the time being.
I'd suggest Water/Bug if Stratagem wasn't so high :/ It might just be the hype, but who knows? It's still better to work with the whole top 10, though. We just need to pay more attention to the upper half of the list.
So, for now, we have a typing that makes it resist Syclant's Ice Beams... and makes it weak to Zapdos' Thunderbolt and Stratagem's Giga Drain. Great. However, it lols at the lower end of the top 10 (except for Pyroak's Grass attacks), so that's a good thing.
Offensively, it's already well-served, as Stratagem, Tyranitar and Fidgit won't like STAB Surfs/Waterfalls/Aqua Tails. Zapdos may not like Ice Beams/Punches, but we want to stop the bird also, we need to either make it speedy, or give it neutrality to Electric, that is, Water/Electric, Water/Ground (AGAIN?), Water/Dragon, or Water/Grass. None of them seems like a good idea to me, because now you're stopping Zapdos, but opening your guard to Stratagem+Tyranitar (Electric), Stratagem+Pyroak (Ground), Syclant (Dragon, but I should run some calcs beforehand), and Heatran+Syclant+Pyroak (Water/Grass). I really think it's better to let it handle Zapdos otherwise (like, not insta-dying), and worry about the others.
That is, those who will fuck up with little Watermon easily. They're Pyroak, Stratagem, Syclant, maybe Revenankh, and maybe Blissey. While Stratagem dies to Watermon's Surf, it has Tech Giga Drain, which is not a good thing; Syclant has +2 Bug Buzzes, Revenankh has those shitty Brick Breaks and tries to be immortal, and Pyroak and Blissey are two bitches. We need a type that makes Watermon not a "too much centralizing force" and also lets it check these buggers. Something that doesn't ruin it if it gets a defensive spread, or doesn't make it have a shitty type coverage, should it ever get an offensive spread.
So, with this in mind, I'm trying to come up with the best typing for it, and a really interesting option that has come to me is Water/Fire. Yes, Fire. 4x resist to Fire Blast, Ice Beam and Bullet Punch, while also getting neutrality to Giga Drain and resistance to Bug Buzz. HOWEVER, it doesn't stop Revenankh, still has Zapdos to worry of (not that it's a bad thing, I think), and more importantly, gets a weakness to Rock AND Ground. That is, those two pokémon you could laugh at to an extent (Tyranitar and Stratagem) now have a way to fuck with you (specially the latter, being blazin' fast and all). You also have to fear random Earth Powers, and more importantly, Stealth Rock. The way I see it, this poor man would either have to be FAST, have Levitate/Mountaineer, or both (and I don't think we want poll-jumping, right).
Being Fire, it becomes a gamble pokémon: You have infinite chances of switching in, have infinite ways of killing the opponent, but may also get killed by everything. Your STABs kill 6 of the top 10; 3 from the ones you kill may also kill you (Tyranitar, Stratagem, Figdit with Earthquake); you have problems with other 2 from the top 10 (Zapdos, Revenankh), and the final 2 may vary from "counters" to "easy kills" depending on how this pokémon is built.
Another interesting typing is Water/Poison. It's a nice option for those who doesn't like SR weakness, while also getting a Fight resist (hey there Revvy). It's also neutral to Grass and Rock while keeping resistance to Steel, Bug and Fire, which surely is something.
The first problem I see is that it only kills 4 out the top 10 pokémon... but hey, at least it's checking Revenankh and others and it's not meant to kill everything using only STABs. However, its main problem is that shitty weakness to Earthquake. If you wanna fight Heatran, Syclant, Stratagem and Tyranitar, you better check if they have Ground moves or not OR be Scarfed, otherwise it's going to hurt. I think we could make it to take at least (most?) one Earth Power from huh Life Orb Heatran, so it can still work as a kind of check, right..?
Trying to resume this little wall of text: If we want a offensive pokémon, we should go with Water/Fire, kill everything while trying to wall shit, without being a Strata-like glass cannon. If we want a defensive pokémon, let's go with Water/Poison and eat any attack with no "Earth" on its name.
So, for now, we have a typing that makes it resist Syclant's Ice Beams... and makes it weak to Zapdos' Thunderbolt and Stratagem's Giga Drain. Great. However, it lols at the lower end of the top 10 (except for Pyroak's Grass attacks), so that's a good thing.
Offensively, it's already well-served, as Stratagem, Tyranitar and Fidgit won't like STAB Surfs/Waterfalls/Aqua Tails. Zapdos may not like Ice Beams/Punches, but we want to stop the bird also, we need to either make it speedy, or give it neutrality to Electric, that is, Water/Electric, Water/Ground (AGAIN?), Water/Dragon, or Water/Grass. None of them seems like a good idea to me, because now you're stopping Zapdos, but opening your guard to Stratagem+Tyranitar (Electric), Stratagem+Pyroak (Ground), Syclant (Dragon, but I should run some calcs beforehand), and Heatran+Syclant+Pyroak (Water/Grass). I really think it's better to let it handle Zapdos otherwise (like, not insta-dying), and worry about the others.
That is, those who will fuck up with little Watermon easily. They're Pyroak, Stratagem, Syclant, maybe Revenankh, and maybe Blissey. While Stratagem dies to Watermon's Surf, it has Tech Giga Drain, which is not a good thing; Syclant has +2 Bug Buzzes, Revenankh has those shitty Brick Breaks and tries to be immortal, and Pyroak and Blissey are two bitches. We need a type that makes Watermon not a "too much centralizing force" and also lets it check these buggers. Something that doesn't ruin it if it gets a defensive spread, or doesn't make it have a shitty type coverage, should it ever get an offensive spread.
So, with this in mind, I'm trying to come up with the best typing for it, and a really interesting option that has come to me is Water/Fire. Yes, Fire. 4x resist to Fire Blast, Ice Beam and Bullet Punch, while also getting neutrality to Giga Drain and resistance to Bug Buzz. HOWEVER, it doesn't stop Revenankh, still has Zapdos to worry of (not that it's a bad thing, I think), and more importantly, gets a weakness to Rock AND Ground. That is, those two pokémon you could laugh at to an extent (Tyranitar and Stratagem) now have a way to fuck with you (specially the latter, being blazin' fast and all). You also have to fear random Earth Powers, and more importantly, Stealth Rock. The way I see it, this poor man would either have to be FAST, have Levitate/Mountaineer, or both (and I don't think we want poll-jumping, right).
Being Fire, it becomes a gamble pokémon: You have infinite chances of switching in, have infinite ways of killing the opponent, but may also get killed by everything. Your STABs kill 6 of the top 10; 3 from the ones you kill may also kill you (Tyranitar, Stratagem, Figdit with Earthquake); you have problems with other 2 from the top 10 (Zapdos, Revenankh), and the final 2 may vary from "counters" to "easy kills" depending on how this pokémon is built.
Another interesting typing is Water/Poison. It's a nice option for those who doesn't like SR weakness, while also getting a Fight resist (hey there Revvy). It's also neutral to Grass and Rock while keeping resistance to Steel, Bug and Fire, which surely is something.
The first problem I see is that it only kills 4 out the top 10 pokémon... but hey, at least it's checking Revenankh and others and it's not meant to kill everything using only STABs. However, its main problem is that shitty weakness to Earthquake. If you wanna fight Heatran, Syclant, Stratagem and Tyranitar, you better check if they have Ground moves or not OR be Scarfed, otherwise it's going to hurt. I think we could make it to take at least (most?) one Earth Power from huh Life Orb Heatran, so it can still work as a kind of check, right..?
Trying to resume this little wall of text: If we want a offensive pokémon, we should go with Water/Fire, kill everything while trying to wall shit, without being a Strata-like glass cannon. If we want a defensive pokémon, let's go with Water/Poison and eat any attack with no "Earth" on its name.
still say fighting. i has great coverage with both the basic STABs, plus all the likely attack additions that a water/fighting will have for better coverage.
edit-before anyone asks how i can say this, remember that just about every fighting type has access to at least 2 of the 3 elemental punches and a good number of decent physical attacks of varying types with common ones being earthquake and stone edge, and to a less extent aerial ace. the possible type coverage that could be added by making its secondary a fighting type makes it a great idea, in my personal oppinion.
edit-before anyone asks how i can say this, remember that just about every fighting type has access to at least 2 of the 3 elemental punches and a good number of decent physical attacks of varying types with common ones being earthquake and stone edge, and to a less extent aerial ace. the possible type coverage that could be added by making its secondary a fighting type makes it a great idea, in my personal oppinion.
Will water/fire really be able to decentralize though? I don't think that a check that can be easily beaten with prediction would discourage use of something as much as something that walls it.
Excuse me?
Water/Fire is weak to rock and so it cannot reliably switch into Tyranitar/Strategem without risking death as they are going to be dealing the highest ammount of damage with Rock-type attacks in OU most of the time.
Zapdos hits Water/Grass neutral with it's entire practical special movepool. If The Water/Grass Pokemon was bulky and had a decent attack to threaten Zapdos with, who's going to keep Zapdos in? If said Pokemon is beaing built to counter non-CB Zapdos, why is it not safe to assume that it will be 3HKOed at best and pose an offensive threat to Zapdos?
Just because LUDICOLO is shut down by Zapdos does NOT mean that Water/Grass is. Last I checked, even bulky Zapdos do not fare well against boosted physical water moves.
I'm hoping for Water/Electric. Lanturn is already so freaking awesome, It needs a fweind :3 I'm sure that if you need some competitive reasons for this typing, you can find them somewhere in this thread. I'm not about to repeat what's already been said.
Yeah, you have a point. The real problem I have with Water/Fire (and that's why I haven't voted yet) is Stratagem. We can't say how long will it last as the number #1; maybe it won't even be #5 next month.
Syclant is another bugger, but it only threatens you with Earth Power (as you 4x resist its STABs). Problem is, 35.3% of the Syclants have it :/ So, unless it's faster (Scarf? 116 base Speed?), these Syclants laugh at you. Good thing is, 64.7% of the Syclants WILL get walled by you...
Needless to say, Heatran and Tyranitar will be nothing if we give it at least 80 Base Speed (just an idea, I hope it's not poll-jumping). Scarftran is a problem, though. But again, you are weak to Earth Power, but 4x resist its STABs. It's a really good trade, I say.
So, the only big problem at all is Stratagem. 130 Speed and 120 Sp. Attack is just too much for Watermon to handle ;_;
I should write a little about Water/Grass. I just need to se if being neutral to Zapdos just to become weak to Bug Buzz and neutral to Heatran is a good trade.
Just throwing this out there, but if it was Water/Ghost and it had Aqua jet than Tech Stratagem can never come in safely on it and Tyranitar is easier to drive away and cant easily take advantage of its Dark attack against it. Likewise if we ensure Rev cant threaten it with Bulk Up Shadow sneak, then it become vulenerable to its STAB. The build could potentially check 4 out of th 5s most common builds without allowing it to be fully counter by any of them, like fighting would.
It also can be much more threatening to Rev than Dragon or Fighting (A big plus imo since I thinK Rev is the biggest decentralizer of 5 on its own merits) and we dont have to worry about taking over Kingdras usefulness outside of rain (Which would be conterproductive to the idea of decentralization).
It also can be much more threatening to Rev than Dragon or Fighting (A big plus imo since I thinK Rev is the biggest decentralizer of 5 on its own merits) and we dont have to worry about taking over Kingdras usefulness outside of rain (Which would be conterproductive to the idea of decentralization).
I'm leaning towards Pure Water or Water/Electric at the moment, mainly because of the defensive attributes.
While this thing needs to pose an offensive threat, if you build this CAP like Strategem, then it will not be an effective decentralizing factor. That is to say, if you choose a TYPING with offense in mind with the excuse that defenses aren't important if it poses a credible threat, then you are forgetting that this thing needs to be able to switch into problem pokemon more than it needs to sweep OU.
Heatran is almost NEVER going to sweep any decent team, and yet look how useful it is in stopping problem pokemon!
I think that the typing should be chosen with resistances in mind, and worrying about it's offensive threat later.
While this thing needs to pose an offensive threat, if you build this CAP like Strategem, then it will not be an effective decentralizing factor. That is to say, if you choose a TYPING with offense in mind with the excuse that defenses aren't important if it poses a credible threat, then you are forgetting that this thing needs to be able to switch into problem pokemon more than it needs to sweep OU.
Heatran is almost NEVER going to sweep any decent team, and yet look how useful it is in stopping problem pokemon!
I think that the typing should be chosen with resistances in mind, and worrying about it's offensive threat later.
we can't assume that it will have have aqua jet (and watch out, you might be getting into poll jumping territory by saying a specific move it should have already). plus we dont know what the stats will be for it yet and how these will influence the total movepool. it could be average like poliwrath, bulk like hariyama, defenseless speed sweep stats like azelf or deoxys-a, or any other numbers of stats types. wait for saying specific moves till its the right time (especially, if your defense if based solely on priority moves).
edit @ANinyMouse-couldn't people just about run any mono grass or grass/x to just check a water/electric? that single typing resists both your stats, and they tend to have a certain level of staying power (yeah...i think we all have experienced just how annoying it can sometimes be to kill a grass type if theyve established subseed)
Yes I know and I completly avoided it with my intial pitch, but people keep acting like only fighting with be able to let it take on Tar and Strata when there are clearly alternitives out there.
Edit: Im also frustrated people are so dead set on making the check a little bit better against 2 of the top five it already has a typing advantage against at the expense of making it considerably worse towards 2 of the type five thats its primary type has no advanatage for. Especially when those two clearly have made it to the top 5 solely on merits when there is a chance the 2 rocks position might be partially from riding the wave of Stratagem being the newst CaP.
your right, it is possible, but its relying on one of three things;a priority move, choice scarf or a high speed. the fact that these are divided into three different categories means that no matter what it can be achieved, but people want the more oblivous one that more likely to give the result that are wanted/needed. you can't say that water/fighting doesn't have the potential to rock these top 10, but at the same time i can't say that most of the other builds have the potential to be good in the top 10 as well.
and also, one last thing:i was re-reading some of the earlier posts and i saw some people saying that some of the secondaries should be chosen not just because of the top 10 but because of the ou metagame (or allusions there of). can we please stick to the concept that specifically focused on CHECKING SOME OF THE TOPS?
edit @kamen-i personally was looking at the full top 10 for this, not just the top five. though you did hit the nail on the head about people mostly mentioning the top 5. i know that the top 5 was the original concept, but in remembering the possible wave of popularity of certain ones is due to the recent release of gem i think that a more broad view is necessary.
i'm not saying that we should pick and choose which parts of the concept we need to stand by, i merely think that it needs to be more broad b/c the original concept was to check 3 pokes, some of which ended up not even being to 5.
With Water winning (and me thinking for some reason there would be a second main typing poll), I have to contradict what I said in the first discussion. I am surprised people are not suggesting Water/Ground as potential typing. Lets see how it does against the top FIVE as per the official concept (not ten):
- Stratagem - Doesn't have anything to worry about sans Giga Drain, but I will get to that.
- Rev - I don't see why it would have problems with rev. it said majority anyways, not all of the top 5.
- Fidget - both STABs are SE on it and both poison and ground don't exactly scare
- tyranitar - resists stone edge, but neutral to crunch, and also hits se with both stabs
- Zapdos - immune to thunderbolt and nuetral to hp ice, only thing to fear would be hp grass
As you can see, Fidget and Tyranitar are easily dealt with in using this typing, Revenankh isn't exactly checked but wouldn't serve as that bad of a problem (plus most waters can Phaze anyways). Now what is left is Zapdos and Stratagem.
As far as stratagem goes, and I have to poll jump with one move here, Aqua Jet could easily be able to check it, NOT COUNTER. Really, with that move and a means to Phaze, it can check 4 out of 5 so far.
With Zapdos goes, if water/ground is picked, HP Grass is going to be used more often, but in doing so it will either have 3 attacks and roost, leaving it with no other utility and easier to switch into, or 2 attacks roost and a utility, meaning it loses either fire or grass coverage along with electric stab. If a water/ground cap6 becomes commonplace, then yes i would predict zapdos being more likely to run HP Grass, but it can't really force zapdos out most of the time.
So there you have it, against the top 5, 4 out of 5 can potentially be checked, repeat, not countered (sorry i just feel this emphasis is important). However, it doesn't hurt to look at the next of the top 10
- Syclant - eh can't really check unless it is able to utilize a rock move or something of the sort.
- Blissey - if it is physical it can possibly check it, but I will say no for the time being
- Heatran - nonHP Grass versions can be checked, especially if Aqua Jet is present on here. Sub versions could be dealt with still, so heatran can be a potential checked pokemon.
- Scizor - nothing much to say here, resists bullet punch but brick break and x-scissor, not to mention superpower, could be potential problems. can be checked depending on bulk
- Pyroak - Just no. Neutral to stabs and hits water/ground 4x se with its own stab.
So against the rest of the top 10, it would not fair as well, but it has the benefit of checking Heatran, and with enough bulk potentially checking scizor. With these two the most likely checked pokemon, 6 out of 10 can be checked with a Water/Ground typing given proper bulk and moves that are seen on water types anyways.
- Stratagem - Doesn't have anything to worry about sans Giga Drain, but I will get to that.
- Rev - I don't see why it would have problems with rev. it said majority anyways, not all of the top 5.
- Fidget - both STABs are SE on it and both poison and ground don't exactly scare
- tyranitar - resists stone edge, but neutral to crunch, and also hits se with both stabs
- Zapdos - immune to thunderbolt and nuetral to hp ice, only thing to fear would be hp grass
As you can see, Fidget and Tyranitar are easily dealt with in using this typing, Revenankh isn't exactly checked but wouldn't serve as that bad of a problem (plus most waters can Phaze anyways). Now what is left is Zapdos and Stratagem.
As far as stratagem goes, and I have to poll jump with one move here, Aqua Jet could easily be able to check it, NOT COUNTER. Really, with that move and a means to Phaze, it can check 4 out of 5 so far.
With Zapdos goes, if water/ground is picked, HP Grass is going to be used more often, but in doing so it will either have 3 attacks and roost, leaving it with no other utility and easier to switch into, or 2 attacks roost and a utility, meaning it loses either fire or grass coverage along with electric stab. If a water/ground cap6 becomes commonplace, then yes i would predict zapdos being more likely to run HP Grass, but it can't really force zapdos out most of the time.
So there you have it, against the top 5, 4 out of 5 can potentially be checked, repeat, not countered (sorry i just feel this emphasis is important). However, it doesn't hurt to look at the next of the top 10
- Syclant - eh can't really check unless it is able to utilize a rock move or something of the sort.
- Blissey - if it is physical it can possibly check it, but I will say no for the time being
- Heatran - nonHP Grass versions can be checked, especially if Aqua Jet is present on here. Sub versions could be dealt with still, so heatran can be a potential checked pokemon.
- Scizor - nothing much to say here, resists bullet punch but brick break and x-scissor, not to mention superpower, could be potential problems. can be checked depending on bulk
- Pyroak - Just no. Neutral to stabs and hits water/ground 4x se with its own stab.
So against the rest of the top 10, it would not fair as well, but it has the benefit of checking Heatran, and with enough bulk potentially checking scizor. With these two the most likely checked pokemon, 6 out of 10 can be checked with a Water/Ground typing given proper bulk and moves that are seen on water types anyways.
So its another Swampert? Other than the comment about Aqua Jet, you just made a post that perfectly describes Swampert. And since CAP is about making NEW Pokemon, thats why ground has mostly been taken out of consideration, since we already have Swampert, and Gastrodon for that matter.
That is sort of why I was opposed to Water in the first place, as the only typing I would see as good for the top 5 would end up being Water Ground. However, there are other pokemon that are similar in type and stat spread but have differences in the stats as well as movepool and ability that distinguish them.
I was fully aware of swampert and gastrodon when typing this, and compared to other typings I find it to be the most useful and most applicable to the literal top 5 scenario in the concept. Truth be told I feel that water wasn't the best choice for it, but even with other pokemon with similar typing water ground would make the most use of the concept.
I was fully aware of swampert and gastrodon when typing this, and compared to other typings I find it to be the most useful and most applicable to the literal top 5 scenario in the concept. Truth be told I feel that water wasn't the best choice for it, but even with other pokemon with similar typing water ground would make the most use of the concept.
What about Water/ Electric? It seems to me that most of the pokemon the resist water type moves aren't to happy to see a thunderbolt fly their way, not to mention it takes care of that zapdos weakness without leaving a glaring grass weakness.
I'm not sure of my vote at this point.
I like certain aspects of Water/Fire. Anything with three 4x resistances to common top OU attacking types (Fire, Ice, & Steel) is an easy switch-in. The attacking combo is pretty sexy too. However, Rock weakness sucks completely, and for some reason I have a hard time with a pokemon weak to Zapdos' primary STAB. I could get over the Zappy thing, but the Rock weakness is a major issue for me...
Water/Fighting is a very cool type, and the Poliwrath fanboy in me is dying to go for it. But, the idea of another Flying weak CAP pokemon is just terrible. If we do that, it's almost like admitting we want Togekiss to be the CAP equivalent of Garchomp. If Skymin stays OU, we have a new 800-pound gorilla on the block.
Water/Electric is another fanboy favorite of mine, since Lanturn is the coolest water pokemon in the universe. But, I can't make a strong argument for it with the decentralizer concept. Any explanation I do make is really justifying my fanboy desires, and I don't want to do that on the CAP project. But, if someone made a strong case for it, my inner fanboy is dying to be a cheerleader for it.
Water/Ghost doesn't do it for me. But, I'll admit I have a pathological hatred of pokemon that are Pursuit-weak. Perhaps I need to see some better arguments for this typing to make me get over it.
I'm not going to vote or argue right now, but these are my initial impressions.
I like certain aspects of Water/Fire. Anything with three 4x resistances to common top OU attacking types (Fire, Ice, & Steel) is an easy switch-in. The attacking combo is pretty sexy too. However, Rock weakness sucks completely, and for some reason I have a hard time with a pokemon weak to Zapdos' primary STAB. I could get over the Zappy thing, but the Rock weakness is a major issue for me...
Water/Fighting is a very cool type, and the Poliwrath fanboy in me is dying to go for it. But, the idea of another Flying weak CAP pokemon is just terrible. If we do that, it's almost like admitting we want Togekiss to be the CAP equivalent of Garchomp. If Skymin stays OU, we have a new 800-pound gorilla on the block.
Water/Electric is another fanboy favorite of mine, since Lanturn is the coolest water pokemon in the universe. But, I can't make a strong argument for it with the decentralizer concept. Any explanation I do make is really justifying my fanboy desires, and I don't want to do that on the CAP project. But, if someone made a strong case for it, my inner fanboy is dying to be a cheerleader for it.
Water/Ghost doesn't do it for me. But, I'll admit I have a pathological hatred of pokemon that are Pursuit-weak. Perhaps I need to see some better arguments for this typing to make me get over it.
I'm not going to vote or argue right now, but these are my initial impressions.
im sure everyone by know has this to some extend. just the number of pokemon that learn it is amazing, but then you think of the ones like weavile that you know you have just died to the second it hits the field.
water/ghost might not be bad as an ou contender, but its just not what we're going for at the moment.
......
as for the water/electric, anything that is completely walled by a single type is a bad idea in my oppinion.
I can post again, yay.
Anywho...
Strategem is high on the list due to novelty. Revenankh, has been around forever, so ideally you would want something nuetral to both Fighting and Ghost. I think Rock neutrality would be good too, but you're starting to get muddled a lot. You can't really resist Fighting, Rock, and Ghost at the same time.
Fidget primarily uses Ground attacks, and water is SE anyway. Type neutral.
Tyranitar is addressed mostly by water type and is slow. I'm not sure what orientation will be like, but I'm still pondering this.
My Suggestion would be Water/Bug.
Vs.
Stratagem:
Kind of SoL here without a strong Aqua Jet, but Stratagem is new so it may have better representation than otherwise.
Revenankh:
Resists fighting. Unless Rev starts carrying Thunderpunch, it isn't going anywhere.
Fidgit:
Water pretty much sealed this up, but it is resistant to Earth Power.
Tyranitar:
TTar is slower (probably, we've yet to go below 65 Base speed) and weak to both STABs. It is not a safe switchin.
Zapdos: the only Water/ that makes a difference regarding Zapdos is /Grass, /Electric, /Dragon, and /Ground. A load of retreads (esp. Ground). This will in all likelihood have Ice attacks, that's the only real consolation.
Syclant:
Still resists Ice Beam, neutral to Bug Buzz, resists Focus Blast and Earth Power.
Blissey:
If it's physical, Waterfall says hi. Otherwise there isn't much you can do here. Although Bug types do tend to get Swords Dance, depending on design.
Heatran:
Neutral Fire Blast is probably bad for your health, but by the same token Heatran doesn't like Surf/Waterfall. Resists Earth Power and Flash Cannon.
Scizor: Covers only Brick Break/Superpower, but it still resists Bullet Punch.
Pyroak: Neutral to both Fire and Grass. Pyroak neutral to both Water and Bug. Stalemate.
I'm pulling for Bug. Water counterbalances almost anything else, Ice attacks keep a lot in check, and Bug allows it to switch in on Close Combat and Earthquake, two fairly ubiquitous moves.
Edit: Yes I know terrible, terrible flying weak. CAP is Togekiss weak.
Anywho...
Strategem is high on the list due to novelty. Revenankh, has been around forever, so ideally you would want something nuetral to both Fighting and Ghost. I think Rock neutrality would be good too, but you're starting to get muddled a lot. You can't really resist Fighting, Rock, and Ghost at the same time.
Fidget primarily uses Ground attacks, and water is SE anyway. Type neutral.
Tyranitar is addressed mostly by water type and is slow. I'm not sure what orientation will be like, but I'm still pondering this.
My Suggestion would be Water/Bug.
Vs.
Stratagem:
Kind of SoL here without a strong Aqua Jet, but Stratagem is new so it may have better representation than otherwise.
Revenankh:
Resists fighting. Unless Rev starts carrying Thunderpunch, it isn't going anywhere.
Fidgit:
Water pretty much sealed this up, but it is resistant to Earth Power.
Tyranitar:
TTar is slower (probably, we've yet to go below 65 Base speed) and weak to both STABs. It is not a safe switchin.
Zapdos: the only Water/ that makes a difference regarding Zapdos is /Grass, /Electric, /Dragon, and /Ground. A load of retreads (esp. Ground). This will in all likelihood have Ice attacks, that's the only real consolation.
Syclant:
Still resists Ice Beam, neutral to Bug Buzz, resists Focus Blast and Earth Power.
Blissey:
If it's physical, Waterfall says hi. Otherwise there isn't much you can do here. Although Bug types do tend to get Swords Dance, depending on design.
Heatran:
Neutral Fire Blast is probably bad for your health, but by the same token Heatran doesn't like Surf/Waterfall. Resists Earth Power and Flash Cannon.
Scizor: Covers only Brick Break/Superpower, but it still resists Bullet Punch.
Pyroak: Neutral to both Fire and Grass. Pyroak neutral to both Water and Bug. Stalemate.
I'm pulling for Bug. Water counterbalances almost anything else, Ice attacks keep a lot in check, and Bug allows it to switch in on Close Combat and Earthquake, two fairly ubiquitous moves.
Edit: Yes I know terrible, terrible flying weak. CAP is Togekiss weak.
I had been thinking about water/bug for a while but I'm not sure ground and fight resist are worth being weak to rock.
Remember, we want to stop the top 5, not just beat them 1 vs 1.
Remember, we want to stop the top 5, not just beat them 1 vs 1.
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