DPP Quagsire (Ubers)

[Train Man]

Quagsire set that's proven to be the quite useful in Ubers.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/quagsire

[SET]
name: Uber Support
move 1: Yawn
move 2: Encore
move 3: Ice Punch / Brick Break
move 4: Toxic
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
ability: Water Absorb
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Thanks to its fantastic typing in conjunction with Water Absorb, Quagsire makes up for its lacklustre base stats and can function as a solid support pokemon in Ubers.</p>

<p>The immediate and obvious niche Quagsire fills is as a counter to most, if not all, variants of the seemingly omnipresent Kyogre. With an immunity to Electric and Water-type attacks, Quagsire only fears the paltry power of a non-STAB Ice Beam. Specs variants can only offer a 3HKO, even with Stealth Rock on the field. Meanwhile, an unboosted Ice Beam will only threaten a 5HKO. Similiarly this can also serve as a decent check against Palkia and Manaphy (lacking Grass Knot).</p>

<p>Encore prevents several Ubers who would otherwise laugh at Quagsire's pitiful attacking power, such as Tail Glow Manaphy and Bulk Up Dialga; two set-up sweepers could also care less about status effects. Toxic is a superb options against other walls such as Lugia, Groudon and Latias, while Yawn can help in forcing switches. The choice between Ice Punch and Brick Break depends more on utility, rather than sheer stopping power. Ice Punch is a good check (and a 2HKO) against Garchomp and Rayquaza, while Brick Break can shatter Reflect and Light Screen.</p>

<p>It should be noted that Quagsire should not be handled as a wall or tank; instead its immunities should be used to force switches or force opponent's into selecting particular moves. For example, Kyogre's will be forced into Ice Beam in order to actually dent Quagsire, allowing you to bring in bulky Tyranitar or Metagross and wear it down with Pursuit. As almost ever Uber team carries a Kyogre, Quagsire will have ample time to switch in, while Toxic and Yawn will make several Ubers think carefully before attempting to switch in.</p>

 

[Caelum]

You are missing 4 EVs. By putting them in SpD you get a bonus point but I'm not sure if you wanted them there or not so I'm checking x)

Looks good if there isn't any significant objections upload it to scms in 2-3 days train man.

 

[White Ninja]

Just a quick question. You mention the 3 or 5 HKO. But you dont mention how much damage you are doing back. Besides causing a switch with Yawn, which he will do anyway. Encore will just encore a Choice item which is pointless. Toxic can help, but wont kill it in those 3-5 Turns of It damaging you. So how much is brick break doing ?
Or is the purpose just to cause switches and toxic stalling ?
Otherwise I like this set, expecially the use of a UU guy like him in Ubers.

 

[Train Man]

thanks for the catch, Caelum.

Quagsire's purpose IS to force the switch; if Kyogre is locked into Thunder/Water Spout, Toxic the switch-in and carry on. If Kyogre is locked into Ice Beam switch to your 'main' special wall, be it Blissey, TTar, a bulky steel. Encore stops CM variants (especially the CM/ResTalkers).

 

[husk]

Can this really provide a check against Palkia's DM? I think after 1 DM if Palkia switches out you can't come in again, and if they stay in the best you can do is toxic it.

The diction speaks unreasonably highly of Quagsire it's hard to read this seriously because you seem like a fan-boy.

Examples: "vast array of immunities" (you've only got two right?) or "large pool of various support moves, potent in any tier."

 

[Train Man]

lol, true, i will try to tone it down, sorry.

This is basically how i use Quagsire. As it can take electric and water attacks, it forces things like Palkia and Kyogre into, instead, using dragon and ice attacks. Pair it up with a fairly bulky steel type (or spD tyranitar) and proceed from there. Play off resistances.

 

[diinbong]

Quagsire set that's proven to be the quite useful in Ubers.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/quagsire

[SET]
name: Uber Support
move 1: Yawn
move 2: Encore
move 3: Ice Punch / Brick Break
move 4: Toxic
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
ability: Water Absorb
evs: 252 HP / 216 SpD / 40 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Thanks to its fantastic typing in conjunction with Water Absorb, Quagsire makes up for its lackluster base stats and can function as a solid support Pokemon in Ubers.</p>

<p>The immediate and obvious niche Quagsire fills (no ",") is a counter to most, if not all, (added commas here but there are a few different things you could do with it) variants of the seemingly omniscient Kyogre. With an immunity to Electric and Water-type attacks, Quagsire only fears the paltry power of a non-STAB Ice Beam. Specs variants can only offer a 3HKO, even with Stealth Rock on the field. Meanwhile, an unboosted Ice Beam will only threaten a 5HKO. Similiarly this can also serve as a decent check against Palkia and Manaphy.</p>

<p>Encore prevents several Ubers who would otherwise laugh at Quagsire's pitiful attacking power, such as Tail Glow Manaphy and Bulk Up Dialga; two set-up sweepers could also care less about status effects. Toxic is a superb option(no "s") against other walls such as Lugia, Groudon, (comma)and Latias, while Yawn can help in forcing switches. The choice between Ice Punch and Brick Break depends more on utility, rather than sheer stopping power. Ice Punch is a good check (and a 2HKO) against Garchomp and Rayquaza, while Brick Break can shatter Reflect and Light Screen.</p>

<p>It should be noted that Quagsire should not be handled as a wall or tank; instead its immunities should be used to force switches or force opponent's into selecting particular moves.</p>

You might want to say something like "...all Palkia and Manaphy without Grass Knot." considering it's listed on 2/3 of the sets. thanks

 

[husk]

Oh, you might want to mention how you play it as it seems really specific and it's probably the best way to make use of quag in ubers. You vaguely get into it at the end but if you could mention the bulky steel or blissey partner and the forcing of moves in greater detail it would help. I'm saying this from the perspective of someone who would read this analysis as I have no idea about ubers.

 

[Garganator]

I'm running really similar set, but with 252 HP/206 SpD/50 Atk Calm Nature and moveset Toxic/Encore/Earthquake (Or Ice Punch)/Substitute. Without defensive EVs it survives unboosted Outrage (with Life Orb) from Rayquaza and those attacking EVs helps to OHKO 100% of time Heatran with Earthquake and 2OHKo most Blissey. But both of these variants (yours and mine) works really similar and they're not so different. Anyway, good set and I know how surprisingly effective Quagsire in Ubers is ;).

 

[Blln]

<p>The immediate and obvious niche Quagsire fills, is a counter to most if not all variants of the seemingly omniscient Kyogre</p>

Omniscient is not the right word. Omniscient means "all-knowing." I think the word you are looking for is omnipresent or ubiquitous.

also i think somebody might have mentioned this already but you don't need a comma after "fills"

 

[Jibaku]

Specs variants can only offer a 3HKO, even with Stealth Rock on the field

I beg to differ

From Modest Kyogre
Damage: 185-218
(185, 187, 189, 191, 194, 196, 198, 200, 202, 204, 207, 209, 211, 213, 215, 218)

Bolded numbers indicate 2HKOes if hit with the same damage after the first shot. Italicized indicate numbers that 2HKO Quagsire after Stealth Rock.

You'll want to specify that it only applies to Timid Kyogre, who has a 1/8 chance of 2HKOing Quaggy with Beam after SR if not factoring CH.

 

[thechocolatebunny]

I think "Similiarly this can also serve as a decent check against Palkia and Manaphy" should be shortened to palkia because manaphy carries grass knot which OHKOs quagsire if I'm correct

 

[cim]

Moving the 40 extra EVs into Special Defense fixes the problem Jibaku has identified.

 

[Phantom_IV]

Quagsire set that's proven to be the quite useful in Ubers.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/quagsire

[SET]
name: Uber Support
move 1: Yawn
move 2: Encore
move 3: Ice Punch / Brick Break
move 4: Toxic
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
ability: Water Absorb
evs: 252 HP / 216 SpD / 40 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Thanks to its fantastic typing in conjunction with Water Absorb, Quagsire makes up for its lacklustre base stats and can function as a solid support pokemon in Ubers.</p>

<p>The immediate and obvious niche Quagsire fills, is a counter to most if not all variants of the seemingly ubiquitous (omniscient means all knowing) Kyogre. With an immunity to electric and Water-type attacks, Quagsire only fears the paltry power of a non-STAB Ice Beam. Specs variants can only offer a 3HKO, even with Stealth Rock on the field. Meanwhile, an unboosted Ice Beam will only threaten a 5HKO. Similiarly this can also serve as a decent check against Palkia and Manaphy.</p>

<p>Encore deters (prevents needs an object--prevents them from doing ___) several Ubers who would otherwise laugh at Quagsire's pitiful attacking power, such as Tail Glow Manaphy and Bulk Up Dialga; two set-up sweepers who couldn't care less about status effects. Toxic is an superb option (no 's') against other walls such as Lugia, Groudon and Latias, while Yawn can help in forcing switches. The choice between Ice Punch and Brick Break depends more on utility, rather than sheer stopping power. Ice Punch is a good check (and a 2HKO) against Garchomp and Rayquaza, while Brick Break can shatter Reflect and Light Screen.</p>

<p>It should be noted that Quagsire should not be handled as a wall or tank; instead its immunities should be used to force switches or force opponent's into selecting particular moves.</p>

 

[husk]

Maybe he meant omnipresent?

Also I believe the line is: "toxic is a superb option"

 

[6A9 Ace Matador]

<p>Encore prevents several Ubers who would otherwise laugh at Quagsire's pitiful attacking power, such as Tail Glow Manaphy and Bulk Up Dialga; two set-up sweepers could also care less about status effects. Toxic is an superb options against other walls such as Lugia, Groudon and Latias, while Yawn can help in forcing switches. The choice between Ice Punch and Brick Break depends more on utility, rather than sheer stopping power. Ice Punch is a good check (and a 2HKO) against Garchomp and Rayquaza, while Brick Break can shatter Reflect and Light Screen.</p>

Latias easily shrugs off Toxic if it Carry's Refresh, and Garchomp always OHKO's with SR up using CB Outrage (If its Adamant) and if not, it still leaves a huge dent in you if its Jolly. So maybe take out the part about Garchomp, since in Ubers, it tends to be Jolly Banded. Also, LO DD/SD Outrage will OHKO from Jolly/Adamant Ray. Bulk Up Dialga and Tail Glow Manafi can both either KO or 2HKO with Outrage and Grass Knot / Tail Glow Ice Beam, so leaving him in on either of those is risky, unless your opponent thinks of Quagsire as set up bait (Which with such a rare threat, i doubt they will). Max Sp Atk Timid DM always 2hko's, be it from scarf or lustrous orb.

From what i see, its a nice idea, but on paper it seems to be a little lack luster, apart from doing what its meant to (Countering Kyogre, which it does quite well) But even then, i see it better to use CB Quagsire with some Sp Def and Def Ev's since it can at least hurt some ubers as well as switch in on them and cause them to switch.

 

[Lutra]

Considering what comes after it, I think omnipotent would be a better fit. It helps build up a better picture because you have already mentioned the "all" variants part. I think it's best to always try to use an omni- word since it's easy to work out the meaning even if you don't know the exact word. I mean who actually knows where ubiquitous derives from?

 

[Goodbar]

Latias easily shrugs off Toxic if it Carry's Refresh, and Garchomp always OHKO's with SR up using CB Outrage (If its Adamant) and if not, it still leaves a huge dent in you if its Jolly. So maybe take out the part about Garchomp, since in Ubers, it tends to be Jolly Banded. Also, LO DD/SD Outrage will OHKO from Jolly/Adamant Ray. Bulk Up Dialga and Tail Glow Manafi can both either KO or 2HKO with Outrage and Grass Knot / Tail Glow Ice Beam, so leaving him in on either of those is risky, unless your opponent thinks of Quagsire as set up bait (Which with such a rare threat, i doubt they will). Max Sp Atk Timid DM always 2hko's, be it from scarf or lustrous orb.

From what i see, its a nice idea, but on paper it seems to be a little lack luster, apart from doing what its meant to (Countering Kyogre, which it does quite well) But even then, i see it better to use CB Quagsire with some Sp Def and Def Ev's since it can at least hurt some ubers as well as switch in on them and cause them to switch.

Maybe then it'd be better to invest heavily into defense since it can then survive and KO those threats in a pinch. It doesn't seem entirely useful to be able to survive more than one hit from specs Kyogre, which it can do without spdef invested, since it can't do much back but inflict status. But with a CB it seems like it'd be fairly useless as well besides a kyogre counter due to terrible attacking power and not so great stab in ubers, at least it can cripple/phaze other threats with its support options.
edit: can't actually KO either garchomp or rayquaza but interesting to note that ice beam would do more damage than ice punch

 

[Train Man]

Sorry have not written a peer edit in ages. Quite rusty.

But thanks for all the criticisms and comments!

Edited in most (all) ideas and fixes.

 

[Train Man]

ready to upload on to the SCMS?