Ubers: Why not?

Ho-oh is a horribly effective Pokemon, posing a threat to both stall and offensive teams. Against stall, you 2HKO everyone, OHKOing a lot of people and 3HKOing Giratina. Against offense, you can wall many attackers in the Sun, while effectively countering threats like Mewtwo, Scizor, Metagross, etc given no Stealth Rock.

If you're not having success with Ho-oh, it means that your opponent probably has something like Kyogre/Palkia/Giratina-O and is smart about spinblocking.
 
Ho-Oh teams basically win if you don't carry Giratina-O or bulky Kyogre (unless you carry Heatran or Tyranitar, but they're rarer). If you do, though, they really struggle - which is why I don't really like using Ho-Oh teams.

This is off-topic, though. I think that overall a lot of people don't play Ubers simply because it's very difficult to build a team which covers threats and is still offensive. I know when I first started Ubers (and it still happens occasionally) I would throw together a team, see a Ho-Oh or a Darkrai and get swept by it without knowing how to effectively respond. It takes a very different approach to the game to effectively deal with monstrously powerful sweepers like Darkrai.
 
I like to think of weaknesses to threats in terms of levels.

Level 1: Weakness to Highly Proximate Threat. This is stuff like DDQuaza setting up on CBDon and butchering your entire team because you didn't bother having something like Jirachi or Garchomp to check it. If your team has any basic threats, make sure it's something relatively rare. Also, this could be having your entire team walled by Blissey or something, or just being stall-weak.

Level 2: Weakness to Combination of Threats. This is stuff like having to watch out for using Dragon Claw with Garchomp, since the combination of Wobbuffet and DDQuaza will sweep your team once Wobbuffet owns Garchomp. Many teams have some of these weaknesses, but it's best not to have too many. If you suspect your enemy team has a strong matchup against you, predict aggressively.

Level 3: Weakness to Style of Team. If you observe Rain v. Rain matchups, you'll notice that the team with a Dialga will have an edge, since Dialga walls the standard Surf/Thunder/Ice Beam attack comboes used by Rain players. The other team might have multiple ways of checking Dialga, but the Dialga user will have an edge due to this. It's simple stuff like that.
 
I like to think of weaknesses to threats in terms of levels.

Level 1: Weakness to Highly Proximate Threat. This is stuff like DDQuaza setting up on CBDon and butchering your entire team because you didn't bother having something like Jirachi or Garchomp to check it. If your team has any basic threats, make sure it's something relatively rare. Also, this could be having your entire team walled by Blissey or something, or just being stall-weak.

Level 2: Weakness to Combination of Threats. This is stuff like having to watch out for using Dragon Claw with Garchomp, since the combination of Wobbuffet and DDQuaza will sweep your team once Wobbuffet owns Garchomp. Many teams have some of these weaknesses, but it's best not to have too many. If you suspect your enemy team has a strong matchup against you, predict aggressively.

Level 3: Weakness to Style of Team. If you observe Rain v. Rain matchups, you'll notice that the team with a Dialga will have an edge, since Dialga walls the standard Surf/Thunder/Ice Beam attack comboes used by Rain players. The other team might have multiple ways of checking Dialga, but the Dialga user will have an edge due to this. It's simple stuff like that.

These levels are common, especially level 1 and beginners. Level 2 is rather rare, as most teams like to focus on 1 primary strategy, as opposed to throwing threats haphazardly on a team together, especially with no support. Level 3 is near impossible to avoid, thanks to the offensive nature of 4th generation, new items like choice specs and life orb make an insane amount of pokemon not only more deadly, but also unpredictable, which imo is more important than being deadly.
 
Level 2 is quite common if Wobbuffet is concerned, or if my Scarf Palkia locks itself into Outrage to KO Latias only to be revenged so that Darkrai can later sweep me.
 
Yeah, it's mainly the Wobbuffet factor that forces you to be careful with your Choice Scarf users. They can be very potent tools to employ against offensive players (I can't count the number of times I've cleaned with ScarfChomp) but they increase your weakness to stall, along with the fact that your Scarfer is probably a tenuous check at best on the threat you seek to defeat, thanks to Wobbuffet.

Also, I got 1337 posts. Awesome.
 
Yeah, it's mainly the Wobbuffet factor that forces you to be careful with your Choice Scarf users. They can be very potent tools to employ against offensive players (I can't count the number of times I've cleaned with ScarfChomp) but they increase your weakness to stall, along with the fact that your Scarfer is probably a tenuous check at best on the threat you seek to defeat, thanks to Wobbuffet.

Also, I got 1337 posts. Awesome.
I view Wobbuffet as the same utility as a choiced scarfer user, as Wobbuffet can effectively check certain threats, and can cause mindgames with set up pokes with encore, giving you an opportunity of a surprise lategame set up sweeper.
 
Lets put it this way, I only just started playing UBERs, and before i started playing i didn't even know theorymon played Ubers and I sure as hell didn't know what 'research week' was, you gotta get Ubers out there to the rest of smogon, show them that UBERs does have a community and isn't just a dead tier that nobody plays as many people percieve it to be.
 
I only just started playing Ubers yesterday, and I must say that I really enjoyed it - far more than Standard. The fact that anything goes as far as Pokemon is concerned just makes it all the more fun for me, and the lack of rage-quit encouraging Pokemon like Breloom and Jirachi makes it more fun, even when considering how unstable Ubers often is.

Granted I'm no Uber master, but I've picked up on it a lot quicker than the other metagames, and I really think some more people ought to give it a try.
 
the lack of rage-quit encouraging Pokemon like Breloom and Jirachi makes it more fun, even when considering how unstable Ubers often is.

Granted I'm no Uber master, but I've picked up on it a lot quicker than the other metagames, and I really think some more people ought to give it a try.

lol clearly you haven't met Skymin yet.

And yeah, once you get past the first 5 or so games, Ubers is actually very easy to play.
 
Wow, i'm not new to ubers, but its clearly much more better than any other tier. All pokemon dies fast and sweeps fast. The only broken thing in Ubers is Arceus. Arceus is a BEAST, sweeping after +4 boost, if you don't have Skarmory, might as well say GG. Kyogre is pretty common, which i really hate most. Man, that Water Spout is so powerful but i have Rayquaza to remove water boost as well as Palkia in my team to counter it.

Uber's have more priority moves than other tiers, the most common one is Extremespeed. That is why i use Spooky Plate on Arceus. Oh Yeah, i'm ranked #112 in Ubers with 1360 or more.

I really hate when people Ubers is for noobs. Its really not because they haven't played the tier yet.
 
I have to support the argument regarding the different metagame/environment.

When making an Ubers team, I think like I would in OU: Come up with a main focus, whether it be a weather focus, focus around one poke, heavy stall, etc; find pokemon to fit that main focus, make sure they synergize decently and don't overlap in terms of use and role; and find a suitable lead. Team building is generally all the same, and it's even easier (IMO) because now you can pick from ANY pokemon in the ENTIRE game (bar Arceus).

A team is built the same way, but I think what trips most people up is how to play them against other teams. What people fear most, it seems, is going up against another party of overpowered pokemon, where anyone could die at any given turn (offense vs. offense), or the battle could rage on for hours, even (heavy stall vs. heavy stall; happened to me once >_>). And because of the low popularity of the ladder, no one would want to wait 20 minutes to fight a battle lasting 2 minutes or 2 hours. It doesn't appeal, does it?

But I like diversity, and Ubers is a metagame that allows that. OU is SERIOUSLY centralized around Bulky Offense teams, as they work best in that environment filled with those kind of pokemon (Scizor, Metagross, Tyranitar, Machamp, all those TANKS). However, Ubers has no one solid type of team. A Heavy Sun stall team is as viable as a Heavy Offense Rain team; an anti-stall team is as viable as a semi-stall team; a bulky offense team is as viable as a balanced team. The diversity and slightly less centralized (in terms of overall TEAMS not pokemon (Kyogre)) Ubers metagame is what sells it the most IMO. From experience, I don't feel as though more 'skill' is involved, mind you I have no clue what people are talking about when they say 'skill' in pokemon. If skill refers to thought process, it's exactly the same: note down all the possibilities, pick out the most likely given the circumstances, act accordingly. If it's not that, I have 0% idea on what skill is.

Nonetheless, I also have another possible theory: are people afraid of Kyogre and the heavy hitters? Kyogre's got Rain + Specs + STAB + Water Spout from 438 SpA and a 100% accurate Thunder. Rayquaza has Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, Extremespeed, Outrage, Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, Earthquake, Waterfall, and all off of 438 Atk and Special Attack AND base 95 speed. I know you might say that the n00b would just use these guys, logically, but since they are inexperienced, they don't know when or where to send them out to get the set up, and who they are supposed to watch out for in the backseats (Lugia switch into +2 SD Rayquaza = lololol). But, then again, this all revolves around the fast-paced metagame and inexperience. To me.


stall vs stall is a fast battle... it just depends on who gets his spikes first
 
The only broken thing in Ubers is Arceus. Arceus is a BEAST, sweeping after +4 boost, if you don't have Skarmory, might as well say GG.
Head->desk.

1. yep, it is a beast. like every other uber.
2. sweeping at +4 is not an argument since you can easily switch out to
3. solutions. groudon, skarm, lugia, forry and giratina can all beat it/force it out/cripple it, and every sweeper has an easy time when his couners are dead/weakened.

it may be a bit more powerful than the average (and also unpredictable, but ive never seen someone complain about a set other than extreme killer) but i still wouldnt consider it broken or, dare i say it, bannable (i laugh every time).

that said, ubers is my avorite tier because...ummm...well, (some of) my favorite pokemon are there and its just fun to play and i dont really know why its so unpopular (actually it isnt on PO, where i play, but it seems to be the case on shoddy)
 
Something I did notice is that Ubers seems slightly more weak to hax.

I have had a lot of times switching my latias in on a water spout kyogre, kyogre critting and thus taking down my #1 check against kyogre.

I think this is mostly because Ubers lacks the insane amount of pokemon you can choose from like OU. and I mean useful pokemon, I realize something like Quagsire can easily beat kyogre due to it walling Kyogre's complete moveset, but it doesnt server much purpose besides that.
 
plus if he were to become common kyogre could just run hp grass.

what ubers lack in pokemons is paid off by the retarded amount of sets each uber can run. most of them can run up to 10 or more sets, both offensive and defensive ones. and serious, tell me something that is not killed by hax?
 
Something I did notice is that Ubers seems slightly more weak to hax.

I have had a lot of times switching my latias in on a water spout kyogre, kyogre critting and thus taking down my #1 check against kyogre.

I think this is mostly because Ubers lacks the insane amount of pokemon you can choose from like OU. and I mean useful pokemon, I realize something like Quagsire can easily beat kyogre due to it walling Kyogre's complete moveset, but it doesnt server much purpose besides that.
Nah its because attacks are simply more powerful meaning crits often turn 3hkos to 2hkos which basically makes all common switch ins extremely vulnerable to said crits. Adding more variety isn't going to stop that.
 
A lot of players don't worry about SpecsOgre too much, I mean it probably doesn't really matter if it kills one of your slow Pokemon as long as it can't come in for free on most of your team.
 
I used to play Ubers...but then I got frustrated because no one was on the Uber ladder.

So now I'm back with OU again. I guess people just don't like Ubers for no reason...
 
i've played like 3 uber matches and i'm in love with the tyer i seriously could start playing this regularñy but waiting 5 mins for a 2/3 mins battle...

yet i still play because ou is seriously boring right now
 
When I first started competitive battling, I started with OU like everyone else, then played Ubers a couple on Months later, and I haven't stopped playing yet.




I think I just like the Broken-ness of all the Pokemon. It's what I'm used too.
(I was the kid who used all Ubers on my team before I got into competitive Battling >.<)
 
Yay I hit 1700 on ubers. It is the best tier people, thus is a challenge. Get on the ladder so my cre goes up faster. Oh wait, did I hear someone say "what if you lose"? mwahahahahahaha we can only find out if u come to the ladder :D
I love when SD Scizor sweeps teams after I screw their Kyogre.
 
Interesting...well, I'm building a team right now...so I might battle you. I don't care if I win or lose. If it's a good game, I'm going back to Ubers. ;)
 
Currently, I have been spamming Ubers full time. OU and UU are just too boring for me... TBH I can't even make an awesome team, unlike in Ubers, where I really excel. Playing Ubers on shoddy is really sucky since no1 at all plays it... if you guys really want to try you might want to try Pokemon Online. there are definitely more Uber-tier players there, although they might not be as strong (Some are real noobs)
 
I would play Ubers, but the only reason I would actually play is because of Arceus' versatility. We can't use Arceus to it's fullest. I'm also sick of Palkia ruining everyone's fun. I might play after the release of Black/White, but with everyone and their mom eying Reshiram's suggested OPness, it seems like everyone will just spam it everywhere. Does that sound fun to you? No, I didn't think so. Seems like another case of Salamence syndrome. Although the Uber mods attempts at revitalizing the tier are valiant, the tier seems like the same thing over and over again. If this offends anybody, I apologize.
 
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