People WILL use Balloon Heatran, which will make your earthquake useless. Of course not everyone will be using balloon, but using a 84 base atk stat over a 100 something special atk stat isn't that great.
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Typhlosion
- Thread starter Acklow
- Start date
With flash fire and drought ninetales typloshion will be a real force.
It's a bit unreliable and hard to pull off. You need to have spinned away rocks, have drought up, and switch in typhlosion on a fire attack.
In gen4 we know that scarfphlosions full health eruptions easily took away more than 50% on neutral hits on most pokemon. If you use the same set, but have sunny day up, and flash fire activated, it will deal 125% more damage than without the sun and flash fire.
That means that a resisted eruption with sun and flash fire up will deal more than a neutral eruption from gen4 without the sun. He'll be completely impossible to switch into except by dedicated resistant special walls, x4 resisters or other flash fire guys.
It's a bit unreliable and hard to pull off. You need to have spinned away rocks, have drought up, and switch in typhlosion on a fire attack.
In gen4 we know that scarfphlosions full health eruptions easily took away more than 50% on neutral hits on most pokemon. If you use the same set, but have sunny day up, and flash fire activated, it will deal 125% more damage than without the sun and flash fire.
That means that a resisted eruption with sun and flash fire up will deal more than a neutral eruption from gen4 without the sun. He'll be completely impossible to switch into except by dedicated resistant special walls, x4 resisters or other flash fire guys.
^Tell me about it. Typhlosion's FF Boosted Specs full HP Eruption does 87.6-103.2% to Bold 252HP/4 SpeDef Suicune in the sun, a guaranteed OHKO with SR or Spikes.
It does 69.0-81.1% to Calm 252/252 Burungel in the sun.
Also, FF Boosted Specs full HP Eruption does 587.5-693.1% to Max/Max Careful Nattorei in strong sunlight, almost a guaranteed 1/6HKO.
If only it weren't so hard to get in without damage. Is passing a Wish while facing a fire move too unlikely?
It does 69.0-81.1% to Calm 252/252 Burungel in the sun.
Also, FF Boosted Specs full HP Eruption does 587.5-693.1% to Max/Max Careful Nattorei in strong sunlight, almost a guaranteed 1/6HKO.
If only it weren't so hard to get in without damage. Is passing a Wish while facing a fire move too unlikely?
Glaceon? I don't know why you'd use it outside of a Hail team to be honest, but I suppose using it as a screener might work, especially to help keep Typhlosion's HP up (it does get screens right?).
Jirachi? Yeah, that would work well actually. Just make sure you aren't facing an EQ/ Earth Power as well and you should be safe.
Using Sunny Day boosts your opponents fire type attacks as well, so if you're using a Sunny Day team, Typhlosion makes a great partner for Pokemon like Tangrowth (since it absorbs fire type attacks and resists ice and bug, while Tangrowth can tank rock and water type attacks directed at Typhlosion). Eruption is amazing when you can get it off but I think Typhlosion will still require multiple fire type attacks to really be effective.
It's a one time thing, but how much does a Fire Jewel boosted Eruption under the sun without a flash fire boost do to some threats?
It's a one time thing, but how much does a Fire Jewel boosted Eruption under the sun without a flash fire boost do to some threats?
Aside from those immune to Typh's Eruption, here is a list of its 4x resists - Water/Rock (Kabutops, Omastar, Corsola, Relicanth, Abagoura), Fire/Rock (Magcargo), Water/Dragon (Kingdra, Palkia), Dragon/Fire (Reshiram). Out of these, aside from Palkia/Reshiram who most likely will be Uber, Kindra, Kabutops and Omastar seeem the only viable ones.
Same as a Flash Fire boosted Eruption under sun. Both are 1.5x
Eruption is beastly but you're going to need a good rapid spinner and maybe a Wish passer to make the most use of a Specs/Scarf variant since it'll be switching in and out a lot. Trick Starmie with that item that removes type immunities for the holder would be good. That way, it can't have it's spin blocked after the trick. I'm thinking a Wish Jirachi and Trick Spin Starmie would have sweet synergy with a choice Typhlosion. Or maybe Offensive Spin Doryuuzu and Wishpassing Vaporeon. Of course, you would need something to take the ground attacks aimed at the steels and Ty...
Typhlosion seems mainly to compete if you want a reasonably fast scarfer capable of dealing ridiculous damage, or a Specs nuke capable of destroying all in its path (that doesnt have Flash Fire).
Charizard is probably the only other who has niches primarily in these roles, except maybe Heatran or Shandy.
Zard has arguably better coverage than all the others, as well as significantly more pwer due to SP. However, to say it is suicidal is an understatment, as it is horribly SR weak and its health drains rapidly.
Heatran has the best typing and a very useful Fire immunity, as well as not being SR weak. However it is arguably better in a supporting role due to its bulk, less than spectacular speed and usefulness as a defensive pivot.
Shandy has excellent power and reasonable coverage, as well as FF to absorb Fire attacks. It's typing is a mixed blessing - it can take Fighting hits if your team needs it, but can also be very easily pursuited to death by TTar, who you really don't want to make your team weak to. Arguably better with a Sub set for this reason, as well as due to its low speed.
Typh has awesome power too due to Eruption, but very lackluster coverage. FF will be useful when it is released, but currently blaze allows you to switch to FB rather than Eruption once you take some damage.
In terms of a Scarfer I'd try Typh due to his speed and not being suicidal, but if you can deal with SR try Zard.
Specs I'm not too sure, I'd probably go with the same again.
Thick Fat Azumarill (and Thick Fat Chaobuu and Seel I guess) also quad resist, but that's not going to be a big issue. However, Drizzletoed (and Kyogre, I suppose) also quad resist, through a combination of typing and automatic rain.
Plus, if the stars align and you get your specs/FF/full health Eruption off and OHKO something, there's the small matter of the fact that you're Typhlosion and easily revenge killed by about the entire metagame. Darumitan has much the same issue, only it hits like a train even after losing some health.
breh
強いだね
TBH there's really very little reason to use Typhlosion in the first place. 150 BP is really very little when you already have the nearly-as-good fire Blast on most pokemon. Heatran even nearly outdamages it on its own with its fire Blast (which is effectively 90% of the power of Eruption, assuming both have timid natures).
Typhlosion, my fave FE pokemon of all time and thus one of the few I actually have competitive knowledge on. Personally I ran modest w/ eruption flamethrower solarbeam and focus blast. The idea was get in for free against a slower pokemon somehow, namely after something you had dies or I also ran agility cm sub and bp girafarig specifically for him, to counter the loss of scarf/specs. Looks terrible on paper but the surprise value is outstanding. If it's after a loss, they should be at low enough hp to take out with the appropiate move, if it's after a pass you should be able to handle them or picked a different recipient. Then the opponent is left with 2 options, stay in and die or switch out to a counter. Except they don't have one. In nu, the amount of things that are faster than typhlosion and don't die from eruption are pretty much non-existent. If they're slow and bulky hopefully two eruptions or eruption plus powerherb solarbeam is enough(and if you're at +1 it is). No one see's that coming either. Really only ninetales poses a threat. In actuality though I often used it as a late game sweeper that was really effective until focus blast misses something important. But enough 4th gen. In 5th gen gamefreak once again gave him any physical move he could possibly want, but of course, nothing special of use. His main gains were permanent sun(hello solarbeams and rediculously powerful eruptions) and flash fire, which is about time as quilava's pokedex entries have long touted it's fur that was inpregnable to fire attacks. Blaze still gives you a nice power boost at low health but if you can combine FF and eruption the smile that will be brought to your face will be as wide a snorlax's waist.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention with FERROTHORN and scizor running around, in addition to all the flareblitz's WoW's and firepunch's that previously existed in the metagame, EVERY SPECIAL ATTACKER AND THEIR MOM NOW RUNS HP FIRE. The only ones that don't are running an even more powerfull fire attack. So getting a flash fire boost might be easier than one expects.
Yes, but why not use Heatran or Volcorona or some other fire type instead of Typhlosion? Specs Flash Fire full power Eruption in the sun may massacre most pokemon, but it's next to impossible. Breludicolo is right: After stealth rock damage, fire blast has more base power. Not to mention the fact that Politoed and Tyranitar are also running everywhere (assuming you're talking about OU, as you listed Scizor and Ferrothorn). And typhlosion isn't the only user of Flash Fire.
On a different note, it's a pity Typhlosion lacks the attack to use its diverse physical movepool.
Leafeon can pass Wishes to Typhlosion, gets Leaf Guard for incoming Status, resists it's weaknesses, lures Fire attacks- in fact, most of Leafeon's weaknesses are resisted by Typhlosion- except Poison (never used) and Flying (still rare).
And Leafeon gets Clorophyl from the DW.
Why has no one mentioned how great this combo would be? :/
Probably because Leafeon has no coverage to allow it to function alone, and passes pathetic 167 HP wishes.
Leafeon's reeeeeeally pushing her limits there trying to counter Slowbro and Milotic. Unless you have Swords Dance(s?) up or a critical hit, they're going to live and probably KO you with Psychic and Ice Beam respectively.
Typhlosion has it's flaws, but if those are them I don't see why it couldn't be OU material with drought ninetails running around. Volcorona is a good set up sweeper, but shouldn't be switching into fire attacks that you've boosted, especially if stealth rocks are up. That brings me to another point, if you are running a sun team you should probably have some sort of anti-rocks things at your disposal. Same goes for opposing weather. If you can't beat politoed and ttar your sun team is already doomed. Heck Typhlosion even has focus blast which should do a nice chunk to ttar on the off chance it hits. And while flash fire might not be an exclusive ability, the only thing that really competes with typhlosion would be heatran, who is slower and bulkier and has some pros and con's about that steel typing. Really the only thing holding typhlosion back is he is often choice locked into moves that can be countered, but yet I see choice pokemon all the time in ou so I don't see why he's any different. It just comes down to predictions.
The problem with Typhlosion is that when it comes down to it, what can he do that other fire types can't? His only real niche as discussed in this thread is a Scarf Eruption and maybe the Specs set. But when you have sandstorm, entry hazards, and so many powerful sweepers it will be very difficult to get him in the battle at full health which has been said before. You say that with proper team support and predictions he could be an OU Pokemon, but you could say that about anything. I'm not saying that he's bad, perhaps in the lower tiers (RU,NU) he could be a monster, but it's hard to compete with such powerful Pokemon in Heatran and Volcarona.
Anyways, I know that is Attack stat is very poor, but perhaps he could go mixed?
Mixed Sweeper
Typhlosion @ Life Orb
Lonely
Flash Fire/Blaze
EVs:
252 Atk/4 SpA/252 Spe
Moves:
-Fire Blast/Overheat
-Focus Blast/HP Ice
-Wild Charge/Thunderpunch
-Earthquake
Is his Attack too lacking to even bother? I don't know if there's a better nature/item/EVs, but I was thinking about using something like this in RU, or perhaps NU when that gets together.
Thoughts and comments are appreciated.