@Arc Tech: HP Grass doesn't do enough to Vaporeon.
Indeed.
Alright HP Fighting you got me. Okay so how many Latioses do you see have HP Fighting? You are calling my method a flaw simply because only YOU use the mov, and then expect me to be facing HP Fighting Latioses from every one that I see?
It will become the standard hidden power for Latios eventually. Tyranitar will soon be more common than Nattorei, and Latios users will figure out fighting>fire.
What you're telling me here is that if any x Pokemon gets set up on by y common Pokemon, it becomes a hindrance. So what if a Pokemon is set up bait for y Pokemon? That doesn't mean anything if the set upper can't get past the other team members. Also I'm pretty sure there are lots of other Pokemon who gets set up on. Ferrothorn gets set up on by Reuniclus and Virizion. Doryuuzu gets set up on by Skarmory and Gliscor. What, you're calling these Pokemon hindrances? Oh for shame. Also my SpDef Tar has Fire Blast if I don't have Pursuit. I mean, I could have Ice Beam over that, but really what else would you have if you don't have Pursuit =/. SpDef TTar isn't as easy to set up on as you might imagine because its big movepool could end up killing your set upper.
...that wasn't excactly the point, i wanted to focus on the difference between 252atk Adamant and 0atk Careful Tyranitar. While the latter gives Terakion, Roobushin, Blaziken, Breloom, etc free switch-ins and set-up opportunities, the former can at least dent these pokes with Superpower to the point where they'll be unable to maintain a sweep. In a fighting-centric metagame, sp.def. Ttar is a horrible choice, and the only reason why you'd use it is Latios. <- Overcentralization right here. Hell, Rankurusu can actually set up on sp.def. Ttar...
And yeah, I do, in fact, find Nattorei a hinderance for teams too, although I don't understand where you got the idea Dorry can be set-up on by Gliscor and Skarmory... If they use SD/Spikes instead of breaking Baloon/Whirlwinding away, they'll lose the matchup.
I have room on my team to sacrifice physical defense. This I'd call adaptation (I don't know about you people though). Whether I choose to SpDef my steels or not doesn't mater a whole lot because in a real match Latios wouldn't even live as long as it did in the example, and there would be other options to make if needed at that time. Even if Scizor doesn't have a lot of bulk specially, all I really need to do at that point is force it out, and given the above example, it'd be well below 50% at the time.
Most TTar teams I've seen already have two Latios checks. Probably somewhat unintentionally (like me). There are other Pokemon to worry about that led to the usage of that "second Latios check".
It's obvious you run a SS semi-stall team. I haven't seen it, but that's the only type of team which can actually handle Latios. "Adaption" doesn't mean "you MUST run SS semi-stall, otherwise you'll be raped by Latios"; adaption means "you need to tweak your EVs or change a pokemon on your team to be able to deal with Latios". Unfortunately, this cannot be performed with all strategies. You cannot put Jirachi in if your team is Ground weak, you cannot use Heatran with Drizzle or Tyranitar with Drought, and you cannot use Nattorei or Blissey in offensive teams.
The only reason why Latios isn't banned as of yet is because nearly everyone who qualified to vote carried two Latios counters in their teams (usually Tyranitar and Nattorei). Unfortunately, if your team doesn't include these pokes (because they don't fit with playstyles such as rain/sun offense or hail stall), you're likely to get smashed by it. This contradicts with Doug's desirable characteristic of the meatagame "VARIETY".
So here's a challenge for you. Test Drizzle offense, and try to make a conclusion on whether Latios is broken or not. You'll be surprised by how brutally he owns that playstyle. And stop arguing that he isn't broken just because YOU and you alone carry two Latios counters in your team. You can deal with Deoxys-A if your team includes Spiritomb and Jirachi, however that doesn't mean it's not broken.
I'd like to capitalize on the phrase "I choose to SpDef my steels". Being forced to tweak your EVs *just* for Latios while already having a sp.def. Tyranitar in your team shows overcentralization. If that's what one needs to do to... "adapt" to the metagame, then we might as well rename OU, not as "standard", rather as "metagame where only specifically designed to handle Latios teams can succeed". There's no variety whatsoever in the current OU.
Really?
-2 Specs DM vs 0/0 Doryuuzu: 33%-40%. Sure it'll die to Roobushin/Azumarill Mach Punch/Aqua Jet, but it's enough to take on Scizor's Bullet Punch. Plus, Dory is OHKOed by Azu CB Aqua Jet at full health anyways -_-
vs. Terrakion in sand: 39%-46%
Better hope you aren't throwing these Draco Meteors like candy throughout the end of the game...I mean he'll die to priority, yes, but it doesn't take much more than 10% damage for it to be OHKOed by Azu Jet or Scizor BP.
Also Volcarona could be carrying Chestorest
Of course I meant Steel-types too >_> What a great way to counter my arguments, clinging on a single phrase... Also Terakion takes a fairly big chunck the way i see it, and once more you assume there's sand up.
Latios has multiple switch ins? In Sandstorm, Latios takes 28%-33% from Rotom-W Hydro Pump. Not much right? Add in SR and one Sandstorm damage (uupon switching in), and Latios is already at around 52%. If it makes a single attack it's down to ~46%. How much more can it switch into? In Rain, Latios is happy it's not going to be taking the residual sand damage, but it would have to take stronger water attacks (so in that example Rotom could do 42%-49% with HPump. Or it could throw a Thunder and possibly paralyze). That's just one example of it. For it to get multiple switch in opportunities, you're going to have to ensure SR isn't up and/or you have to send Latios in to a weak attack and/or sand isn't up . Or you can switch it into Earthquake, but just remember that they'll probably try to catch you on the switch.
You seem to... "forget" or intentionally ignore the fact that attacks aren't used on every turn of the battle. How about Latios coming in on a double switch-in against something slower, Roobushin's Bulk up, Hippo's Slack Off, Gliscor's Protect, Shaymin's Rest, Roserade's Spikes or Infernape's Taunt? What will someone who doesn't carry two Latios counters do then? I'll let you know what: leave their poke in as death fodder, and experience the worst situation they ever will in the metagame -
knowing the opponent will use Draco Meteor, and being unable to do anything about it.Also Earthquake is a very common move in OU, and Latios can switch in at least twice on Water-, Electric-, Psychic-, Fighting-, and Grass- type attacks, as your own example proves. Add all these safe switch-ins together, and you'll hopefully realize how many times Latios can fire off Draco Meteor. I've indirectly swept entire teams just by double-switching and DMing away when my opponent couldn't handle Latios. Your team can obviously handle him, but any other playstyle faces serious problems.
Latios is broken. If you don't want to ban him, at least limit him somehow.
