BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread

[ShootingStarmie]

Well, my favourite spinner has to be Tentecruel (in the rain), mainly because it can take a dump on Jellicent on the switch. With the move-set of Sub, Toxic, Rapid Spin, Scald, you're going to get the spin off if you stay and, and you're going to cripple their Jellicent. Starmie can also 2HKO on the switch, but I think predicting the Jellicent to come in and spin block is a lot harder to predict then say predicting a switch out of Tentecruel into a counter (then you sub, RP as they break your sub, and carry on).

 

[Olijolly]

There are many people (myself included) who didn't think Landorus was broken but absolutely think Keldeo is. I have a feeling Keldeo will be banned by a decent majority.

This
And I'd suspect garchomp to have much higher usage

 

[Schpoonman]

Anyone else finds Jellicent to be a complete bitch to spin against lately?
As gimmicky as it sounds, I've been considering using Ring Target + Trick Starmie just for that.

I've always found Jellicent to be a tremendous pain in the ass. Back in late 2010/early 2011 before BW1 dropped, me and some friends lost our shit at the thought of Ring Target because we thought it meant that the HOLDER ignored immunities, not that the holder lost their immunities, which would make Starmie (by far my favorite spinner and in my opinion the best spinner in the game) so much better. Once I figured out how it worked I stopped trying. If you're feeling bold, try it out and lemme know.

 

[Joeyboy]

Having trouble spinning against Jellicent. Analytic Life Orb Starmie with [insert electric move here]. Goodbye Jellicent, don't use Trick+Ring Target

 

[BKC]

Yea that is a nice way to wreck Jelli on the switch but you have to be careful because as soon as you kill it there's often a Scarf Tar waiting to Pursuit you. Anal Starm is a great pkmn in general though. Jellicent's amazing, it doesn't get half the props it deserves.

 

[MikeDawg]

At this point in the meta, how does everyone feel latias fares? Which set is best?

 

[Gary]

At this point in the meta, how does everyone feel latias fares? Which set is best?

Right now, Latias seems to be having the most success with these two sets:

Latias @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Surf / HP Fire
- Psyshock / HP Fire
- Recover

The HP is very expendable, depending on how much bulk you want. This set is amazing, because it's a very good check to opposing weathers such as rain and sun. This set is very self-explanatory, because it's simply a bulky attacker used to round off team coverage and help primarily weatherless teams that are weak to rain and sun in particular. This set was best during the Landorus meta, but it's still very good. It can switch into boosted Hydro Pump from Keldeo, Specs Politoed, and CC from Scarf Terrakion, even after SR. It can switch into Ninetales very easily and threaten it with a Draco Meteor, and with proper HP EVs it can be a great check to Venusaur even at +2. With Landorus gone, this set has less of a reason to use it, but it's still very good at what it does, and I love using this set more than any other Latias set out there. If you need a weather check/counter or hate Scarf Terrakion, this is your set.

Latias@ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover

This set is terrifying, and probably one of the greatest sweepers in the metagame right now. Once Steel-types are gone, and Latias gets a free switch-in on something, it's pretty much GG. Phazers, Steel-types, and Perish Song are one of few things stopping this thing from sweeping almost turn one. Dragon Pulse is all it needs to just absolutely demolish any team late game. This thing doesn't really need that much support outside of beating Steel-types and finding an opportunity to setup, and that's what makes this thing so amazing. With her myriad of resistances and great bulk, she finds a lot of opportunities to setup on most of the metagame. Any team that wants a win condition or a reliable sweeper, you just need to slap this bad girl on your team and you're golden. Sub up, CM, watch everything die. Best used on teams that hate rain or sun, ESPECIALLY sun. It can setup on Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, Secret Sword, etc.

 

[Scotti]

I think Latias is one of the most dangerous sweepers in this metagame. It usually runs the 2 sets listed above, but sometimes i find it having Hp Fire over Sub which can really make a difference since the only thing that can pretty much have a chance to beat it is Heatran, and even then it has to have Roar or Toxic. Though very rarely i find it having Psycho Shift which i find to be very annoying to play. In the end i find Latias one of the most benefiting pokemon of BW2 Ou Metagame. At the same time it has common threats it has to watch out for such as Tyranitar, Scizor, Mamoswine, and scarf dragons. On the list of things that can wall it you have Heatran, Jirachi, Chansey, and Ferrothorn(in rain), so some people will say it has gotten worse though with the right support it can be pretty hard to defeat. It is also a very underrated threat that people should use more, its also hard to defeat if you're not prepared for it. Anyway Latias OP( not really).

 

[Gary]

I think Latias is one of the most dangerous sweepers in this metagame. It usually runs the 2 sets listed above, but sometimes i find it having Hp Fire over Sub which can really make a difference since the only thing that can pretty much have a chance to beat it is Heatran, and even then it has to have Roar or Toxic. Though very rarely i find it having Psycho Shift which i find to be very annoying to play. In the end i find Latias one of the most benefiting pokemon of BW2 Ou Metagame. At the same time it has common threats it has to watch out for such as Tyranitar, Scizor, Mamoswine, and scarf dragons. On the list of things that can wall it you have Heatran, Jirachi, Chansey, and Ferrothorn(in rain), so some people will say it has gotten worse though with the right support it can be pretty hard to defeat. It is also a very underrated threat that people should use more, its also hard to defeat if you're not prepared for it. Anyway Latias OP( not really).

With status and revenge killers like Latios and Garchomp around every corner, Sub is a much better fit for an all out sweeping set. However, I do agree that for some teams running an extra coverage move like Psyshock or HP Fire can go a long way. I always used to run Psyshock in order to sweep even earlier on in the game even with Jellicent and the pink blobs still present. HP Fire is a great weapon against opposing Scizor thinking they can U-turn on your ass. It depends on personal preference and coverage.

 

[BKC]

Maybe it's me but I never liked Latias too much. It's not all that strong even with LO, pitifully weak when bulky, bulky but Pursuited brutally easily, and whenever I switch it in to a Rotom-W, the fucker either burns me or Volt Switches into a Tyranitar/Scizor. It is very good against non-Volc sun (or Chans if it's sun stall) but I've found it's not really all that good against rain and vs sand it just blows.

 

[BurningMan]

Maybe it's me but I never liked Latias too much. It's not all that strong even with LO, pitifully weak when bulky, bulky but Pursuited brutally easily, and whenever I switch it in to a Rotom-W, the fucker either burns me or Volt Switches into a Tyranitar/Scizor. It is very good against non-Volc sun (or Chans if it's sun stall) but I've found it's not really all that good against rain and vs sand it just blows.

Yeah i have also never been a big fan of Latias, the LO set is ok and i managed to use it to some success, but the CM sets are just to vulnerable to TTar you can't even switch it in on bulky waters because of the risk of getting ruined by a scald burn. On the other hand whenever i build a new team i always realize how hard it is to stop without a defensive steel type or TTar/Scizor. For me it just performs way too match-up prone if your opponent got something like TTar or Jirachi it is most likely going to be a liability and that can really suck for something that is often used as a glue pokemon.

 

[Matthew]

I don't mean this as a "I have a problem with everything post!" but more just a discussion about what we think is going on in the metagame.

So, excuse me for being absent from Pokemon for a few months, things I say might be a tish rusty or a tish untrue, but I hope all of you can correct (politely) anything that I might have messed up. In these regards I want to note that: do not talk about banning, too strong, what-the-fuck-ever because that is hardly good conversation. We all agree to the terms and services of this thread? Great!

In my return to pokemon I've found Sun to do extremely well in the metagame as of late. Most teams don't carry an honest-to-God good counter to Volcarona. I've seen quite a lot of Heatrans; which, in theory, should hard counter a good Volcarona set (Fire move / bug buzz / hp rock) but none of them are running Balloon. Which means they're easy fodder for sash trio to take care of. I've also noticed that rain (of course) is still king. I'm disappointed more and more by Landorus-T. I think it is a good mon but I've never seem to have gotten any good use out of it. I'm confused as to why people run it over something like bulky salamence or bulky Gyarados. Stealth Rock might have something to do about it, but I'm not entirely sure.

Something that confuses me even more is Magnezone's usage being so low. I'd expect a scarf set with Volt Switch to have a profound effect on the metagame. With it being able to not take sand damage and safely turn while harming other team's Water-types (assuming it's rain) or trapping other steels (see heatran, etc) seems like a huge advantage. Though I suppose you'd need to run HP Ground for Tran and that leaves you open to the brutal dragon that is Dragonite.

These are just my thoughts on the metagame just far, I'd like to hear more!

EDIT:
sorry NixHex! forgot this was a thread that happened. Probably should go to MK's for each new month though.......

 

[BKC]

Landorus-T is hardly comparable to Salamence / Gyarados. It can use SR, U-turn, SD, RP, and is neutral to rock (aka it isn't SR weak and is capable of countering/checking Terrakion).

Sun has always been good (more or less so at certain stages of the metagame). It's just too risky (aka matchup dependent) for my liking.

 

[BurningMan]

In my return to pokemon I've found Sun to do extremely well in the metagame as of late. Most teams don't carry an honest-to-God good counter to Volcarona. I've seen quite a lot of Heatrans; which, in theory, should hard counter a good Volcarona set (Fire move / bug buzz / hp rock) but none of them are running Balloon. Which means they're easy fodder for sash trio to take care of.

Since you are playing Volc in the Sun the good set is QD, Fire Blast, Bug Buzz and Giga Drain. Fire Blast in the sun takes care of everything that you would want to hit with HP Rock outside of Heatran and Giga Drain is super useful to deal with Jellicent, Keldeo, Politoed etc. it also allows you to not be revenge killed by Scarf Keldeo because after a QD you can take a Hydro Pump even outside of the Sun at 100% and suck that little Pony dry.
You said that there are not many teams with a Volcarona counter and while you are not mistaken outside of Heatran there is no Volcarona counter so to speak outside of stealth rock. This might seem stupid, but Volcaronas SR weakness can also be one of its biggest boons since a ton of people purely rely on SR to handle volc so with spin support people can easily overwhelmed with a 100% Volcarona simply because QD is such a ridiculous move. After Set-up the only revenge killer that can handle a 100% Volcarona is Terrakion since Keldeo can't OHKO with Hydro Pump anymore and neither can Latios. It is also resistant to most priority so once Volc has set-up there is hardly anything that can stop it.
Still the fact that it is so reliant on spin support to come to full effectiveness also means that if the opposing team has a spinblocker you are already at a disadvantage.

About sun in general i agree with BKC that i don't like how match-up reliant Sun is wich is why i never really liked it.

I've also noticed that rain (of course) is still king. I'm disappointed more and more by Landorus-T. I think it is a good mon but I've never seem to have gotten any good use out of it. I'm confused as to why people run it over something like bulky salamence or bulky Gyarados. Stealth Rock might have something to do about it, but I'm not entirely sure.

It is not only the Stealth Rock weakness (although it plays a big part), but U-Turn, 145 base Atk, access to SR and pretty much perfect coverage in 2 moves with high base power make it much harder to abuse as set-up fodder compared to Gyara and Salamence. I haven't used the on site spread for Lando-T though as i usually use it on offensive teams i tend to run a little more speed as well as more attack instead of defensive EVs this lets you switch in less often, but also makes it more difficult for you oponent to switch into. Oh and try out the double dance set it is really really good and can demolish both offensive and defensive teams.

Something that confuses me even more is Magnezone's usage being so low. I'd expect a scarf set with Volt Switch to have a profound effect on the metagame. With it being able to not take sand damage and safely turn while harming other team's Water-types (assuming it's rain) or trapping other steels (see heatran, etc) seems like a huge advantage. Though I suppose you'd need to run HP Ground for Tran and that leaves you open to the brutal dragon that is Dragonite.

Unless i want to do dragon spam i would use Rotom-W as my Volt-Switch abuser anytime but that might be because Rotom-W is my favorite Pokemon in 5th gen with its amazing typing/move pool. If i want a steel as my revenge killer i would use Scarf Jirachi or Scizor since magnezones speed is more than lack luster and it doesn't outspeeds any speed boosters wich means you need another scarfer/priority abuser anyway. Honestly i have never used Magnezone to great effect on anything, but dragon spam teams and even there i often found it easier to just muscle through steels for me Magnezone was always more a psycological threat that makes me think twice about switching in my Scizor/Ferro etc. wich can often be a poor decision.

 

[Lucalibur]

Personally, I think Landorus-T is actually pretty good depending on your needs. Sure, he ain't the fastest thing alive, but he provides a really good, balanced amount of bulky and speed together with his massive attack. I think he is really set dependent(although this goes for most, if not all Pokemon) though, as he can only do very specific things depending on the set you're running. Its different from a Pokemon like Scizor(CB set), who can do so many things with a single set, so his usage has to be warranted rather than something you can slap on any team.

I believe the Gravity set to be pretty good, although whether you run HP ice or U-turn depends on your team. I run U-turn because I enjoy double scouting with him and CB Scizor, but HP Ice is really important if you want to OHKO Pokemon like Gliscor right away. Gravity itself doesn't personally help my team a lot outside of Starmie's Hydro Pump becoming a mean killing machine, but blowing through Landorus-T's counters does since he shares one or two with a few other Pokemon in it(Looking at you, Lucario and friends). Intimidate really helps here as well, as it helps softening some hits and provides him with a lot of natural bulk, matching the likes of oldschool Salamence. That together with U turn really helps you keep a offensive momentum while ruining physical sweepers' day.

Mind you, I have left this forum a long time ago and only recently got back into Pokemon, so I didn't get the chance to fully 'taste' the current metagame and could very well be spilling a lot of bullshit without knowing. Anyone is free to correct me here.

 

[Schpoonman]

Something that confuses me even more is Magnezone's usage being so low. I'd expect a scarf set with Volt Switch to have a profound effect on the metagame. With it being able to not take sand damage and safely turn while harming other team's Water-types (assuming it's rain) or trapping other steels (see heatran, etc) seems like a huge advantage. Though I suppose you'd need to run HP Ground for Tran and that leaves you open to the brutal dragon that is Dragonite.

Magnezone is too slow to effectively abuse a Scarf. Moreover, with how useful Dugtrio is to weather, Magnezone is VERY vulnerable, and a scarf set just isn't powerful enough. Now, the Specs set which 2HKOs some resists and 2HKOs Ferrothorn even in the rain is very useful.

 

[doughboy]

Personally, I think Landorus-T is actually pretty good depending on your needs. Sure, he ain't the fastest thing alive, but he provides a really good, balanced amount of bulky and speed together with his massive attack. I think he is really set dependent(although this goes for most, if not all Pokemon) though, as he can only do very specific things depending on the set you're running. Its different from a Pokemon like Scizor(CB set), who can do so many things with a single set, so his usage has to be warranted rather than something you can slap on any team.

Mind you, I have left this forum a long time ago and only recently got back into Pokemon, so I didn't get the chance to fully 'taste' the current metagame and could very well be spilling a lot of bullshit without knowing. Anyone is free to correct me here.

While one Landorus-T set is very narrow role-wise (Scizor in a CB set can be a scout+revenge killer+tank etc), the singular role that the Landorus-T set will perform, it will perform fantastically. Landorus-T is a lot more versatile than the metagame would lead you to believe; it isn't really a "depending on your needs" Pokemon. While the pivot set is #1 right now, Landorus-T can fulfill needs outside of a defensive pivot with a lot punch very well too. The double boosting sweeper is absolutely excellent and is finally gaining the notoriety it deserves. The first thing that makes double dance shine is that it can buy so many set up opportunities with Intimidate, which either forces a switch or allows you to tank a hit. That huge attack stat allows it to be just powerful enough against offensive teams even without a Swords Dance boost and just a Rock Polish. It also allows it to be absolute destruction against defensive teams once their ground immunities are removed. Stall teams in BW1 a lot of the time could not handle the power behind SD Haxorus, the same holds true for an equally powerful Landorus-T (fine it is 2 base attack points lower). While Landorus-T does not have Taunt, it does have a nice Sandstorm and Spikes immunity while being neutral to Stealth Rock. I haven't tried the Scarf set at all, but considering it has U-turn and the ability to outspeed neutral nature base 100's, it has to be alright.

It also helps that Landorus-T is weather neutral. Immunity to Sandstorm, a good resistance to fighting, and an immunity to Earthquake make it a strong candidate on Sandstorm teams. The lessened water weakness and strong matchup against Sand sweepers/teams make it a good candidate for Sun teams. We even have seen some users put Landorus-T on to rain teams because it is a just good offensive option v.s. physical attackers.

So taking into consideration these two points I would say Landorus-T is one of the most flexible pokemon in OU in terms of placement on different kinds of teams. It is one of my favorite pokemon to use at the moment. i<3lando-t

reason for edit: clarity

 

[Lucalibur]

Hmm, I have heard quite a few things from the double boosting set, so its nice to know its actually pretty good. I didn't see anything special about it at first, but I guess its the simple things that work the best. The points you brought up, such as immunity to sandstorm and good resistances together with crazy high attack are the main reasons I use him, other than just loving his design in general.

I suppose you're right: While his individual sets can only do specific jobs, they do said jobs really damn well. Plus, Intimidate is just a plain good ability for any Pokemon to have and helps any team.