Draining Punch only has 60 BP, isn't it generally the same concept?
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Pokémon XY General Discussion
- Thread starter Stellar
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breh
強いだね
Drain Punch didn't receive much use in generation 4 (when it had 60 BP; it now has 75 BP), in part due to its awful pp (gf made drain punch before fixing giga drain, it seems) and in part due to its awful BP. I remember seeing noobs use it on PBR with BU Gallade, but outside of that I never saw it in gen 4.
As far as I can gather, the only Pokemon with generation 4 analyses where giga drain is even mentioned are Torterra, Tentacruel, and Muk. Muk's analysis is the only one to explicitly state that it has use (to easily KO kabutops / omastar / rhyperior); Torterra's says you should never use it and Tentacruel's lists it in OO and states that you can hit swampert a little harder. Drain Punch is not mentioned outside of OO on any analysis.
There are very, very few moves with less than 70 BP and competitive use (ignore scizor / priority moves / Rapid Spin / Knock Off / multihit moves). Icy Wind on Keldeo is the only one I can think up off the top of my head, but keldeo has coverage issues that more or less no water type can match outside of maybe seismitoad (which also fails to learn ice beam for some reason).
Regarding the HP shown of Sylveon so far there appears to be an inconsistency.
At Level 30 a Sylveon has been shown to have 106 HP, which is only possible with a base HP stat of between 64 (with max IVs and EVs) and 111 (with minimum IVs and EVs).
If health recovered through Draining Kiss is the same as damage dealt, which when used on Politoed would be 64, then as just under 25% of the Level 50 Sylveon's max health was recovered this Sylveon would have over 256 max HP.
However this would require Sylveon to have a base HP stat of at least 150, which is incompatible with the previous range. Either Draining Kiss doesn't recover the exact amount of HP as damage dealt (maybe two thirds instead?), or that Sylveon's max HP is higher than the current formula allows (perhaps HP increasing natures have been added?)
At Level 30 a Sylveon has been shown to have 106 HP, which is only possible with a base HP stat of between 64 (with max IVs and EVs) and 111 (with minimum IVs and EVs).
If health recovered through Draining Kiss is the same as damage dealt, which when used on Politoed would be 64, then as just under 25% of the Level 50 Sylveon's max health was recovered this Sylveon would have over 256 max HP.
However this would require Sylveon to have a base HP stat of at least 150, which is incompatible with the previous range. Either Draining Kiss doesn't recover the exact amount of HP as damage dealt (maybe two thirds instead?), or that Sylveon's max HP is higher than the current formula allows (perhaps HP increasing natures have been added?)
Technician + Big Root + Draining Kiss does its share of fair damage. On top of that, it heals 100% damage it does. But yeah, at the time I made my previous post, I had confused "Belch" with Draining Kiss, thinking it had 120 BP.
I posted this before, but it was overshadowed by the exhibition battle discussions. So I'll leave it here. Froakie's animation pretty much seals the deal that its evolutionary line is based on Ninjas.
I posted this before, but it was overshadowed by the exhibition battle discussions. So I'll leave it here. Froakie's animation pretty much seals the deal that its evolutionary line is based on Ninjas.
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If there is a Pokémon that has enough chances to use Draining Kiss as a free Recover for soft-punching the opponent, then it might have its competitive uses. However, I can't see it being the cornerstone technique for an entire competitive moveset. If they didn't give it mediocre damage because they wanted it to have good distribution, then they made it a weak move because they didn't want its users to be broken and impossible to knock out.
Lesse... 60 is 80% of 75, which is 160% when doubled. Ok, 160% of the recovery you would get with Drain punch or Giga Drain. When might that help?
Technician + Draining Kiss
Calm Mind + Draining Kiss
Anything Bulky + Nasty Plot + Draining Kiss
Something will find use for this.
Technician + Draining Kiss
Calm Mind + Draining Kiss
Anything Bulky + Nasty Plot + Draining Kiss
Something will find use for this.
I may be missing something, but is it even safe to assume that Draining Kiss is special when it hasn't been confirmed? Can anyone tell by the damage done to Politoed, because I feel there is a good possibility that this may be a physical move. I mean, it is a...physical action after all *eyebrows* :P A kiss that drains the life out of you! Your point that something will find use for this move is true, however you may not be thinking of the right Pokemon. Sylveon is obviously capitalizes on special moves, but...
I assumed it was special as the teams in the double battle video seemed to be constructed with competitive battling in mind, and I'm 90% certain Sylveon is a special attacker.
Regardless, Bulk Up and Swords Dance still stand as physical counterparts to my above mentioned strategies.
Well, yes, I'm certain Sylveon is a special attacker. Because I figured that the manner in which the moves played was competitive, I found it kind of odd that Sylveon would use something that looked physical, but of course, either way, there are appropriate boosting moves.
Since the English version is just the Japanese version translated and that the entire point of the battle is to show off Mega Evolutions, it is almost assuredly still the case
First thing I thought about when I saw that they redid some of the Pokémon's cries:
On topic, this video of the demo is much clearer and more audible, plus the guy also fools around with Pokémon-Amie a bit:
Thankfully, the guy also used Shadow Ball with Mega Mewtwo on Dragonite. Assuming 0 EVs, 0 IVs and Neutral Natures, Multiscale Dragonite takes about 15-18% damage from a normal Mewtwo, which is too low compared to what's on the video. So we have to assume that the Dragonite had Inner Focus, which disappointingly puts the damage at 30-35%, more or less what's seen in the video. Maybe Mega Mewtwo doesn't gain that much of a SpA boost after all.
Either this or the Dragonite had Multiscale and Mega Mewtwo gets its SpA insanely buffed, like 200 or upwards.
Oh, and Froakie-ha-meha (Froaduken?):
On topic, this video of the demo is much clearer and more audible, plus the guy also fools around with Pokémon-Amie a bit:
Thankfully, the guy also used Shadow Ball with Mega Mewtwo on Dragonite. Assuming 0 EVs, 0 IVs and Neutral Natures, Multiscale Dragonite takes about 15-18% damage from a normal Mewtwo, which is too low compared to what's on the video. So we have to assume that the Dragonite had Inner Focus, which disappointingly puts the damage at 30-35%, more or less what's seen in the video. Maybe Mega Mewtwo doesn't gain that much of a SpA boost after all.
Either this or the Dragonite had Multiscale and Mega Mewtwo gets its SpA insanely buffed, like 200 or upwards.
Oh, and Froakie-ha-meha (Froaduken?):
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As someone who plays nearly exclusively VGC and GBU:
For any sort of set up or support to be useful in doubles, it needs to be worth the turn you've burnt not attacking with your partner. From what I understand, Topsy-Turvy doesn't offer any sort of defensive help for your partner, just a one time stat reversal. It seems all too easy for your opponent to simply double target Malimar or your Draco Meteor / Overheat / Leaf Storm user and prevent your set up from ever happening.
The combo once it's pulled off sounds a little cool though. Something like Kingdra using Draco Meteor Turn 1 and using Muddy Water / Surf Turn 2+ is intimidating and seems worth the set up. I think what this combo will eventually come down to is A) whether Malimar has the bulk, attacking stats, and movepool to pull off that sort of support and still be useful outside of that one form of set up and B) finding the right user who carries enough bulk either through typing, raw stats or both to endure the first turn of set up, a preferably STAB move that sets them at -2, and a good STAB spread move to abuse that +2
Overheat+Heat Wave in sun from anything.
Superpower+Outrage Dragonite, use Superpower to smash Heatran/Ferrothorn and proceed to do crazy damage. Although you have to factor in fairies now :/
Close Combat Hitmontop with +1 defenses.
Hammer Arm raising speed, Superpower raising Attack and Defense, just imagine Contrary with unlimited distribution and not having to give up your ability for it.. Sure it isn't the easiest thing to set up, but it will be much more than a gimmick especially if more than just Malimar gets the move.
Oh by the way, running Sitrus Berry on both mons would help ease set up greatly.
This sprang to mind for me too, but the big issue here is that Fire is a really horrible defensive typing. The only Fire-type we currently have that I would consider bulky enough and with good enough defensive typing to use this is Heatran, but even then it has some easily exploitable weaknesses
Outrage is a pretty horrendous attack in double battles when you're not able to select your proper target. Superpower boosts are okay, but I think the real target here should be trying to net greater offensive boosts to make the turn you were busy setting up worth it. Frankly, +1 seems very underwhelming for that type of work, especially when Helping Hand is a tried and tested as well as much easier way to get such a boost. It's not permanent, sure, but it can be done on the spot
I've covered Superpower already, but sacrificing a turn of set up for a +1 boost with Hammer Arm just seems awful. That turn could easily be spent setting up much more effective speed control through the use of Trick Room, Icy Wind, or Tailwing. Set up in VGC really needs some wonder justifications to see use and everything beyond +2 offensive stat boosts (which seem iffy) seem very underwhelming.
The item clause is in effect in both VGC and the GBU
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