Pokémon Azumarill

[AOPSUser]

So iv'e been talking with a friend and he says why would anyone want to put a minimum investment of 84 into speed, just to out speed something like a Jellicent which hasn't even been released yet, and what benefit is it to the Battle maison, when all Pokemon in battle maison run a 252/ 252 of any 2 stats with whatever in another stat. and why would you go to have 132 speed, just to outspeed a Scizor with 8 in speed, when a scizor player, will most likely has 252 in speed. (Especially in Battle Maison)

its making me think that the 252 hp, and 252 atk spread would be better.

At least run 84 Speed for no speed Sylveon, who would otherwise switch in on you and cripple you with status or damage, but cannot take two Waterfalls. 44 was minimum last gen for Blissey.

Also most Scizor have 0 Speed EVs, or 8. CB Scizor has 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 (SpD/Spe) as its suggested spread.

 

[Plasma.EXE]

So iv'e been talking with a friend and he says why would anyone want to put a minimum investment of 84 into speed, just to out speed something like a Jellicent which hasn't even been released yet, and what benefit is it to the Battle maison, when all Pokemon in battle maison run a 252/ 252 of any 2 stats with whatever in another stat. and why would you go to have 132 speed, just to outspeed a Scizor with 8 in speed, when a scizor player, will most likely has 252 in speed. (Especially in Battle Maison)

its making me think that the 252 hp, and 252 atk spread would be better.

It's really only feasible if you're team has a hard time with the Pokemon in question that you are trying to outspeed or you are playing by vgc rules where you're more likely to end up in mirror matches and can only choose 4 pokemon. Regarding Scizor, he has bullet punch and I don't think its worth taking some pts out of hp to out prioritize hitting it. Unless he's actually in yellow health, you probably aren't going to kill it with aqua jet and that situation doesn't pop up that often to warrant taking some EV's away from hp. That's my take on it anyway. It might be worth adding 8 ev pts into speed to outspeed other azumarill or 50 base speed Pkmn though.

 

[newtonja]

By the way I am pretty sure mega venusuar completely counters azumarill it resists every thing except ice punch which isn't stab and even that is just normal effective, and mega venesaur totally destroys azumarill

 

[BurningMan]

Whats better: belly drum set or cb set?

Belly Drum doesn't really works. There is just way too much stuff that is faster and can take even a +6 Aqua Jet and almost every other priority user is faster and has no problem to revenge kill Azumarill after the Belly Drum and a little passive damage that isn't to hard to get considering that Azumarill takes damage from every form of residual damage. It is also not that easy to get a Belly Drum boost and its down right impossible getting another one later in the match. Its not that it is impossible to sweep with Azumarill, but there are just a lot of better late-game sweepers that don't require that much support and CB is just the best set to abuse Azumarills strengths as a hit and run wallbreaker and revenge killer.

 

[Legitimate Username]

I've always found Belly Drum to be a far better set. You'd be suprised at how hard it is for only a moderately weakened team to tank +6 Aqua Jets, and Leftovers helps make setup easier by offsetting some passive damage. Azumarill can also set up very easily on predicted switches, as threats such as Tyranitar will almost never stay in. The Choice Band set certainly isn't bad, but being able to late-game sweep with near perfection isn't an easy thing to give up.

 

[effyouzion]

The belly drum set is a great stallbreaker. Sucks against offensive teams because they usually have something like Talonflame or Rotom that can fuck with you, but pure stall teams don't really have an answer to this unless they run defensive Rotom-W.

 

[iQs__]

The belly drum set is a great stallbreaker. Sucks against offensive teams because they usually have something like Talonflame or Rotom that can fuck with you, but pure stall teams don't really have an answer to this unless they run defensive Rotom-W.

Wait until you are forced to switch out after losing 50% of your health. One status like Toxic, Burn, Paralyze or even Seeded is enough. If you do the calculation, Talonflame LO priority BB does about 60-70% of Azu max 252HP. LO/Banded Scizor 252Atk/252HP can easily Bullet Punch a half-life Azu.

The biggest problem for Azumarill Belly Drum is you must stand your ground until you are dead. You can't retreat with 50% HP because you will be pretty much useless. And forcing him out is not very hard, even just KO him.

 

[Plasma.EXE]

Wait until you are forced to switch out after losing 50% of your health. One status like Toxic, Burn, Paralyze or even Seeded is enough. If you do the calculation, Talonflame LO priority BB does about 60-70% of Azu max 252HP. LO/Banded Scizor 252Atk/252HP can easily Bullet Punch a half-life Azu. Even worse, let's say you have a free turn to Belly Drum by forcing your opponent to switch, I would love to see how you deal with Sucker Punch M-Kang or M-Mawile. Trust me, you don't want to take any hit from those 2 even with full health. Aegislash 252Atk/168Spe Shadow Sneak can also clean this after-belly-(+6)-Azumarill easily.

The biggest problem for Azumarill Belly Drum is you must stand your ground until you are dead. You can't retreat with 50% HP because you will be pretty much useless. And forcing him out is not very hard, even just KO him.

Sucker punch isn't very effective against Azumarill (Mega-Mawile has to worry about outspeeding it for sucker punch to work which comes down to a speed tie or who has more speed EV's). Aegislash is slower than Azumarill so aqua jet is going to be hitting it first (and I doubt shadow sneak will be doing 50%-75% damage with no boosts, kings shield won't save you from dying). They'll likely cripple Azumarill more, but something is going to get KO'ed. Personally, I'm not much of a fan of Belly Drum Azumarill since I never have problems with it and hazards make it harder to set up with, but I see how it can be deadly when used correctly.

Best thing stall teams can run is a Quagsire or Mega-Venasaur, the latter which I think should be used more often.

 

[effyouzion]

Wait until you are forced to switch out after losing 50% of your health. One status like Toxic, Burn, Paralyze or even Seeded is enough. If you do the calculation, Talonflame LO priority BB does about 60-70% of Azu max 252HP. LO/Banded Scizor 252Atk/252HP can easily Bullet Punch a half-life Azu. Even worse, let's say you have a free turn to Belly Drum by forcing your opponent to switch, I would love to see how you deal with Sucker Punch M-Kang or M-Mawile. Trust me, you don't want to take any hit from those 2 even with full health. Aegislash 252Atk/168Spe Shadow Sneak can also clean this after-belly-(+6)-Azumarill easily.

The biggest problem for Azumarill Belly Drum is you must stand your ground until you are dead. You can't retreat with 50% HP because you will be pretty much useless. And forcing him out is not very hard, even just KO him.

Right, but all those answers you named are found on offensive teams. BD Azumarill can come in on, say, Chansey against a defensive team and guarantee a few KOs as long as Rotom and mega Venusaur aren't around.

 

[iQs__]

Sucker punch isn't very effective against Azumarill. Aegislash is slower than Azumaril so aqua jet is going to be hitting it first (and I doubt shadow sneak will be doing 50%-75% damage with no boosts, kings shield won't save you from dying).

Best thing stall teams can run is a Mega-Venasaur or Quagsire.

You are right about Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak. I overestimated those pokemons. They deal about 30% with no boost to Azumarill. And btw, Aegislash 168 Spe is faster than Azu 132 Spe.

And I might as well add one more counter to Azumarill:

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 219-258 (62.21 - 73.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 110-129 (31.25 - 36.64%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

The figure is not that impressive. But with Iron Barbs and Rocky Helmet, he can switch in to a Water-type attack from +6 Azu, and deal 7/24 max HP to him. If Azu chooses to attack again, he is dead. 7/24 x 2 = 14/24 which is more than 50% of his HP. That's my rough calculation.

But yeah, Quagsire Unawared makes him quite invulnerable to Azumarill Belly Drum.

 

[Plasma.EXE]

I thought Superpower was standard on Bellydrum Azumarill. Ferrothorn won't survive a +6 boosted Superpower and Azumarill will still be running amok if it has a Sitrus Berry and hasn't taken any hazard damage.

 

[iQs__]

I thought Superpower was standard on Bellydrum Azumarill. Ferrothorn won't survive a +6 boosted Superpower and Azumarill will still be running amok if it has a Sitrus Berry and hasn't taken any hazard damage.

Because you usually have 4 offensives with CB Azu so I'm kind of confused. What would you sacrifice for Belly Drum?

But now I do the calculation, it is somewhat scary. If you can force your opponent to switch on a free-switch Azumarill, you basically have a free turn to setup a Belly Drum and eat the Sitrus to be at 75% HP. A +6 healthy Azu is really scary. It will go down to 1 or 2 priorities-users but it will take down at least 2 with it if the opponent does not have a counter.

 

[Plasma.EXE]

Because you usually have 4 offensives with CB Azu so I'm kind of confused. What would you sacrifice for Belly Drum?

But now I do the calculation, it is somewhat scary. If you can force your opponent to switch on a free-switch Azumarill, you basically have a free turn to setup a Belly Drum and eat the Sitrus to be at 75% HP. A +6 healthy Azu is really scary. It will go down to 1 or 2 priorities-users but it will take down at least 2 with it if the opponent does not have a counter.

The set I was thinking of on Bellydrum Azumarill was:

- Bellydrum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Super Power

Even Ferrothorn won't be able to wall that. There's that attack drop, but +5 is still scary to deal with and the defense drop shouldn't be a big issue when you're already low on health.

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

I've always found Belly Drum to be a far better set. You'd be suprised at how hard it is for only a moderately weakened team to tank +6 Aqua Jets, and Leftovers helps make setup easier by offsetting some passive damage. Azumarill can also set up very easily on predicted switches, as threats such as Tyranitar will almost never stay in. The Choice Band set certainly isn't bad, but being able to late-game sweep with near perfection isn't an easy thing to give up.

Sitrus Berry is a better item, because it gives you 25% of your max HP back instantly, and gives you a much better chance of surviving other priority attacks, and attacks from things that aren't OHKO'd by Aqua Jet.

Wait until you are forced to switch out after losing 50% of your health. One status like Toxic, Burn, Paralyze or even Seeded is enough. If you do the calculation, Talonflame LO priority BB does about 60-70% of Azu max 252HP. LO/Banded Scizor 252Atk/252HP can easily Bullet Punch a half-life Azu. Even worse, let's say you have a free turn to Belly Drum by forcing your opponent to switch, I would love to see how you deal with Sucker Punch M-Kang or M-Mawile. Trust me, you don't want to take any hit from those 2 even with full health. Aegislash 252Atk/168Spe Shadow Sneak can also clean this after-belly-(+6)-Azumarill easily.
The biggest problem for Azumarill Belly Drum is you must stand your ground until you are dead. You can't retreat with 50% HP because you will be pretty much useless. And forcing him out is not very hard, even just KO him.

Good players won't BD when the opponent still has healthy counters that can end their sweep, unless they need to break through a wall to set up a different win condition. Even then, they wouldn't retreat after belly drumming, they would just sac it and try to prevent their opponent from setting up on a predicted switch.

Because you usually have 4 offensives with CB Azu so I'm kind of confused. What would you sacrifice for Belly Drum?
But now I do the calculation, it is somewhat scary. If you can force your opponent to switch on a free-switch Azumarill, you basically have a free turn to setup a Belly Drum and eat the Sitrus to be at 75% HP. A +6 healthy Azu is really scary. It will go down to 1 or 2 priorities-users but it will take down at least 2 with it if the opponent does not have a counter.

The move set should be Belly Drum/Aqua Jet/Play Rough/Brick Break or Bulldoze (unless Superpower is really needed to KO something). Brick Break is for Ferrothorn, Bulldoze is for Tentacruel and other poison types who can't OKHO you. Superpower leaves you open to faster priority users, and is unlikely to net any new KOs at +6, so I wouldn't recommend it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway, I'm sure at least one other person has mentioned this somewhere in last 13 pages of this thread, but what do people think about a defensive set with Sap Sipper? It's prety bulky, has great defensive typing that makes a great counter to things like Breloom, Kingdra, Weavile, Blaziken, Serpirior, etc, and it has perfect defensive synergy with Ferrothorn and most ground types. Sadly, its movepool is a bit shallow for defensive set, with Scald, Ice Beam, fairy STAB, Toxic, Light Screen (but no Reflect), and Parish Song as its stand out options. Might that be Viable?

 

[Plasma.EXE]

Anyway, I'm sure at least one other person has mentioned this somewhere in last 13 pages of this thread, but what do people think about a defensive set with Sap Sipper? It's pretty bulky, has great defensive typing that makes a great counter to things like Breloom, Kingdra, Weavile, Blaziken, Serpirior, etc, and it has perfect defensive synergy with Ferrothorn and most ground types. Sadly, its movepool is a bit shallow for defensive set, with Scald, Ice Beam, fairy STAB, Toxic, Light Screen (but no Reflect), and Parish Song as its stand out options. Might that be Viable?

Seems too unreliable and hard to take advantage of (Sap Sipper should be taken advantage of for it's immunity and attack boosting, which it would take 2 hits to match huge power Azumarill, maybe possible by bullet seed, but that's assuming your opponent has a breloom to begin with). I dunno though, some set's work better in action than on paper.

 

[Legitimate Username]

I still prefer Leftovers to Sitrus Berry for flexibility. Leftovers gives Azumarill the freedom to come in mid-game for an Aqua Jet revenge or somethingy and heal off some of the damage it takes, whereas Sitrus Berry will only work once and won't be much help if it activates before you use Belly Drum, robbing you of your chance to sweep at 75%. Leftovers also lets you fare better against Sandstorm and Hail. Sitrus Berry certainly has its advantages though, it seems to be mostly preference.

I won't judge Assault Vest Azumarill too harshly just yet, it could have potential, but nonetheless use Superpower or Brick Break over Power-up Punch. Besides being generally weak and useless, Power-up Punch's potential boosts won't help much if you lack recovery, and you'd lose them anyways the moment you switch out. Overall, it does seem outclassed by Choice Band, since you'd be best off spamming Aqua Jet nonetheless, but perhaps the boost to Special Defense will let you beat certain threats you normally wouldn't able to. I can't think of any at the moment though.

 

[EtherDrive]

things everyone should consider when choosing to go with either belly drum or choice band is if they have enough support to play around either set. If you run dual screens, Belly Drum can be extremely phenominal because all damage is cut in half, and you can take ALOT more things at 50% health behind screens compared to without, If you don't have screen/sub/wish support, using belly drum is a risk because... Yes, you have to stay in unless all faster priority threats are removed.

CB can potentially allow you to stay alive longer, but you're locked into one move that can potentially invite something very dangerous if they can take multiple hits from the move you're locked into, or are flat immune to it, and if you're forced to switch out, depending on how they play, you can be put into some really bad circumstances if your team is not well equipped.


TL;DR have support for a BDrum set, Have some really good switch ins for CB set

 

[Gondor]

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oubeta-62712619

I was losing badly to a trick room team and swept all 6 months with a BD AJet.

I was running with Waterfall instead of BD, and that was the first game with BD O_O

 

[R3cursi0n]

I run:

Azumarill @ sitrus berry
belly drum
aqua jet
superpower
play rough

I have had no issue with this. Only one time against talonflame. But if you just aqua jet you can ko after eating a life orb brave bird. Will not be able to belly drum but the sitrus puts you back at reasonable health. Once you belly drum if your health is an odd number it triggers the berry for recovery

 

[iQs__]

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oubeta-62712619

I was losing badly to a trick room team and swept all 6 months with a BD AJet.

I was running with Waterfall instead of BD, and that was the first game with BD O_O

You made quite some mistakes but it's a very good use of BD Azumarill. But to be honest, gimmicky strat and pokemons are all over showdown, therefore 3-4 winning games do not tell you exactly how a single moveset fits into the metagame.

If that Conkeldurr carried Thunder Punch, which is one of the must-have coverage for an All-Out Attacker set, you would be dead. It showed us how somewhat unreliable a base 40 attack can do, even with +6.

Also, an important point is that your opponent seemed to not have an answer for Azumarill. Hydreigon has both of its STAB resisted or immuned, Slowbro only have Psychic which is neutral. I hope that Conkeldurr carried a Thunderpunch but it seems like it did not.

However, I'd like to hear more from you in the future about this BD set since I really don't want to use Azumarill now :(

 

[Diachronos]

I'm actually tempted to run both along with Waterfall and Superpower. Aqua Jet's priority will be missed, but having access to a versatile moveset might be able to break even if OHKOs can be avoided.

alexwolf EDIT: Removed the part about using Ice Punch as Rough Play is 100% superior

 

[DTC]

I think Belly Drum is a pretty good option on Azumarill, but it should not be your Plan A, because there is quite a lot of stuff that stops a Belly Drum Azumarill sweep. Imo Belly Drum should just be used as a filler in the last moveslot on a tanky Azumarill as you really do not need Superpower / Ice Punch much. If you're not using Choice Band, Azumarill should be taking advantage of its awesome defensive typing with Leftovers / Sitrus Berry. Use that defensive typing to check various threats like Dragons and Heatran (post pokebank) while hitting pretty hard in the process. While not having Choice Band significantly decreases your damage output, the survivability and flexibility is worth it. If any of you were tuning into the XY ladder cast earlier today, you may have seen Leftovers Azumarill's utility, although Texas was not using Belly Drum on his Leftovers Azumarill.

Anyways, Belly Drum should just be a situational option. You should not specifically look for a setup opportunity, but of course if an easy setup opportunity arises, make sure to take advantage of that.

To sum it all up: don't be afraid to send out Belly Drum Azumarill early and not immediately Belly Drum. It has a lot more utility than just using Belly Drum and hopefully sweeping! Play it more like a general tank and only Belly Drum when it's safe and productive, because it is a very risky move.

 

[Fennekin]

I wouldn't be so sure about Azumarill automatically choosing to run Play Rough instead of Ice Punch. Play Rough is generally better because of STAB and its ability to hit Water-types, but Ice Punch gives him a way to hit Grass and to really nail most Dragon-types.

Except there's no reason to run Ice Punch unless you're scared of Torterra and Roserade. STAB Play Rough hits marginally weaker than Super Effective Ice Punch, unless the ElemPunches got a power boost in G6.

That aside, Azumarill's best non-CB set is hands down this one, in my personal experiences:

Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Huge Power
Adamant nature, 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 SpD
~Waterfall
~Play Rough
~Aqua Jet
~Superpower / Return / Double-Edge

Assault Vest allows you to hit stuff that would normally trash Azumarill around, like Sludge Bomb Gengar, Thunderbolt Rotom, and Thunderbolt Goodra to name a few. The power drop from CB is quite noticeable, but still gets the job done with some hazard support, like most OU mons already do. We all know how good Normal/Water coverage is, but Superpower just nails Ferrothorn on the switch, as well as then random Empoleon in Pokébank tier.

 

[deca]

So I've been reading through this thread and there's kind of a lot to take in. I'm really intrigued by the belly drum sets and would like to try it, is there a consensus on the best EV spread for this? I see a lot of different ideas regarding Speed investment for different specific counters.

I haven't really battled competitively in the past, mostly stuck to messing around with friends. I've struggled to put real cohesive teams together in the past (aside from gimmicks like ResTalk shuffling through hazards) and would like to make a better effort to understand the metagame this time around.

Any recommendations on how I should approach running a bellydrum set as a fairly inexperienced player? Would it be a better idea for me to have a specific setup mon paired with Azumarill or would that just make the whole thing too transparent to work?

Also saw people mention they were giving out Marills with favorable IVs several pages back, am I too late to get in on that? :p

 

[RockStarFish]

The problem with Belly Drum Azumarill is that if you don't run a Sitrus Berry on it, anything faster that can stomach a +6 Aqua Jet can easily revenge kill it.

For some perspective, the frail Greninja survives a +6 Aqua Jet and OHKOes Azumarill with Grass Knot after the HP loss from Belly Drum;

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 220-259 (77.19 - 90.87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 244-291 (60.39 - 72.02%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 265-312 (65.59 - 77.22%) -- guaranteed 2HKO