Considering Char-Y is clearly OU, can we please stop talking about it. Ninetails has not gotten the usage to have the same problem, so continue to discuss him, but Charizard in UU is laughable right now
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Other 6th Gen Pokemon UU Candidate Speculation Thread
- Thread starter Ashfield
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I've been thinking about Hidden Power users lately, and how they'll have to reinvent themselves. HP still gives them great coverage, but that power drop is very noticeable. The three in particular I'm thinking of:
Cofagrigus - Ghost/Fighting coverage is still going to be great, but the loss in power of HP Fighting is gonna hurt it. Defensive Cofag is usable with moves like WoW, Pain Split and Haze, but its standard Trick Room/NP/Shadow Ball/HP Fighting is going to be significantly weaker. The Steel nerf vs Ghost helps Cofagrigus a bit but is it enough to off-set the HP nerf? Maybe a set that replaces HP Fighting with WoW would be used to catch Normal switch-ins (most notably Snorlax that don't carry Rest, though who knows how good he'll be this gen?). Umbreon doesn't mind taking a burn, but Umbreon was walling Cofag anyway, with or without the HP nerf. Hydreigon can function burned, but it gets worn down quickly especially if using LO (not that it cares, it's killing something anyway). Houndoom walls this set, but maybe Trick Room can turn its newfound speed against it. A lot of other darks of Gen 5 UU don't really appreciate a burn.
I guess the worst thing about Cofagrigus is how much worse it got at spinblocking. Defoggers can defog, while Blastoise can simply kill.
Zapdos - Offensive Zapdos with Electric/Fire/Grass coverage was awesome. The grass was amazing for hitting Swampert/Rhyperior. Those two are STILL going to get hit hard. They're not gonna wanna stay in just to get rocks up, but surviving with just that little bit more HP can help them come in later and do something. However, dragon covers that entire 3 move coverage. Zapdos may take HP Ice for dragons, but it's probably not worth it for the 2x super effective hits. It'll be taking HP Ice for the usual 4x targets of Gligar and Flygon (very possible neither will be relevant in UU this gen)
However, Zapdos has all the tools to reinvent itself. It can Defog, and even last gen it was able to use more defensive sets. With Roost, Sub, Toxic to go along with respectable attack and bulk, it can still be an excellent pokemon. It can't tear teams apart the same way it did last gen, but it's got some solid support options
Raikou - Sub CM Raikou was dominant. This gen, it can still be good but it's going to be more difficult to achieve that victory condition. It has the move pool to pull off choiced sets. We saw some of that last gen, with stuff like Volt Switch, Extrasensory for the Nidos, Aura Sphere. It has access to Shadow Ball, so it can pull off a Specs set with non-STAB Ghost/Fighting coverage, being able to hit Metagross/Hydreigon (showing once again how good that core is gonna be, being able to cover for each other's weaknesses). Finally, Sub CM with Shadow Ball could be annoying if it gets the defense drops, but Hydreigon is going to wall that set
Raikou still has awesome speed, good power and good enough move pool to succeed. It can't sweep as easily, so it'll be fun to see which sets will become most popular
I'm thinking Cofagrigus is gonna drop to RU, while Zapdos and Raikou will be successful in UU. Not quite dominant, but they'll still be something people will need to watch out for.
Cofagrigus - Ghost/Fighting coverage is still going to be great, but the loss in power of HP Fighting is gonna hurt it. Defensive Cofag is usable with moves like WoW, Pain Split and Haze, but its standard Trick Room/NP/Shadow Ball/HP Fighting is going to be significantly weaker. The Steel nerf vs Ghost helps Cofagrigus a bit but is it enough to off-set the HP nerf? Maybe a set that replaces HP Fighting with WoW would be used to catch Normal switch-ins (most notably Snorlax that don't carry Rest, though who knows how good he'll be this gen?). Umbreon doesn't mind taking a burn, but Umbreon was walling Cofag anyway, with or without the HP nerf. Hydreigon can function burned, but it gets worn down quickly especially if using LO (not that it cares, it's killing something anyway). Houndoom walls this set, but maybe Trick Room can turn its newfound speed against it. A lot of other darks of Gen 5 UU don't really appreciate a burn.
I guess the worst thing about Cofagrigus is how much worse it got at spinblocking. Defoggers can defog, while Blastoise can simply kill.
Zapdos - Offensive Zapdos with Electric/Fire/Grass coverage was awesome. The grass was amazing for hitting Swampert/Rhyperior. Those two are STILL going to get hit hard. They're not gonna wanna stay in just to get rocks up, but surviving with just that little bit more HP can help them come in later and do something. However, dragon covers that entire 3 move coverage. Zapdos may take HP Ice for dragons, but it's probably not worth it for the 2x super effective hits. It'll be taking HP Ice for the usual 4x targets of Gligar and Flygon (very possible neither will be relevant in UU this gen)
However, Zapdos has all the tools to reinvent itself. It can Defog, and even last gen it was able to use more defensive sets. With Roost, Sub, Toxic to go along with respectable attack and bulk, it can still be an excellent pokemon. It can't tear teams apart the same way it did last gen, but it's got some solid support options
Raikou - Sub CM Raikou was dominant. This gen, it can still be good but it's going to be more difficult to achieve that victory condition. It has the move pool to pull off choiced sets. We saw some of that last gen, with stuff like Volt Switch, Extrasensory for the Nidos, Aura Sphere. It has access to Shadow Ball, so it can pull off a Specs set with non-STAB Ghost/Fighting coverage, being able to hit Metagross/Hydreigon (showing once again how good that core is gonna be, being able to cover for each other's weaknesses). Finally, Sub CM with Shadow Ball could be annoying if it gets the defense drops, but Hydreigon is going to wall that set
Raikou still has awesome speed, good power and good enough move pool to succeed. It can't sweep as easily, so it'll be fun to see which sets will become most popular
I'm thinking Cofagrigus is gonna drop to RU, while Zapdos and Raikou will be successful in UU. Not quite dominant, but they'll still be something people will need to watch out for.
I think cofagrigus will be solid uu as it was last gen. It may have gotten the hidden power nerf, but lets see the pros of what happened this gen.
1. Ghost typing is phenomal right now. The only immunuity is normal and resist is dark. Steel lost that resist si its stab move is that much better especially if we see metagross drop.
2. That hidden power nerf was so slight but it did have advantages, cofagrigus can now lower its attack iv more weakening foul play from umbreon which makes setting up nasty plot and tr that much easier.
3. With togekiss losing its normal typing, it is now hit neutrally by shadow ball assuming that ut doesnt go ou which is unlikely.
Hiddem power nerf was subtle and does turn some previos 2hkos into 3hkos but it shouldnt be too bad.
Now assault vest on the other hand does screw up said users of hidden power.... im excited for assault vest escavalier and rhyperior...
1. Ghost typing is phenomal right now. The only immunuity is normal and resist is dark. Steel lost that resist si its stab move is that much better especially if we see metagross drop.
2. That hidden power nerf was so slight but it did have advantages, cofagrigus can now lower its attack iv more weakening foul play from umbreon which makes setting up nasty plot and tr that much easier.
3. With togekiss losing its normal typing, it is now hit neutrally by shadow ball assuming that ut doesnt go ou which is unlikely.
Hiddem power nerf was subtle and does turn some previos 2hkos into 3hkos but it shouldnt be too bad.
Now assault vest on the other hand does screw up said users of hidden power.... im excited for assault vest escavalier and rhyperior...
Jolteon is a superior revenge killer because of its ability to take out things like Weaville and Crobat. Jolteon also has an immunity to electric attacks that Raikou is still waiting on with volt absorb. With all of the dragons being released into UU, Jolteon can actually use its speed to its advantage. After a dragon dance boost, Jolteon still outspeeds many dragons and can KO with LO or Specs HP Ice. While it's main niches may have been to take out things like +1 speed dragonite, it now may have a niche for taking out Noivern or anything else weak to bolt beam that hits a speed tier between raikou and jolteon. From my understanding, scarfs are fairly common in UU and things like scarf chandy can outspeed raikou but not jolteon. There is plenty of room for both raikou and jolteon however as raikou does hit harder and has a better attacking movepool.
Crobat I give you but weavile is a different matter
252 SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Weavile: 225-265 (79.7 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You only achieve the OHKO with SR up, and only equipped with specs, which is pretty damn poor, unless you're going to tell me you're running a sub-optimal hidden power. With life orb...
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Weavile: 196-231 (69.5 - 81.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
You risk not even getting the job done with SR helping you out, though at least weavile will die after LO recoil I suppose...after taking you down with LO knock off.
As for the dragon dump
-Noivern is OHKO'd cleanly by HP Ice regardless of LO or specs or SR, so I pay that.
-Dragalge
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dragalge: 127-151 (38 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery. 252 SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dragalge: 146-174 (43.7 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery. Nope.
-Tyrantrum
252 SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyrantrum: 268-316 (87.5 - 103.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyrantrum: 234-276 (76.4 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I hope hazards are up, and that's not even considering a rock polish set to bypass tyrantrum's speed issue (though why lefties are recommended here I have no idea...)
I'm seeing 2-3 pokemon jolteon can reasonably hope to take down that raikou can't, I'm not sure that is really worth it when you can really only hit and run otherwise, especially with much more limiting coverage. I could pay a 4th pokemon if UU were to get hawlucha that ran max speed, but that'd be about it I think.
Yep. This was jolteons role in OU as well. It didnt always get OHKOs, but it was fast enough and strong enough to take out a lot of the faster threats in the meta after chip damage like life orb recoil. Its a different role than raikou who is a sweeper first, revenge killer second. I dont know why you were trying to send a revenge killer out on a wall though. Unless some kind of speed boosting set becomes popular on dragalgae, I dont see why you would send jolteon.
1) How relevant is the Ghost buff? Steels were not really dominant last gen. Hitting Bronzong and Metagross is really nice, but it loses power against darks like Houndoom (a relevant Cofag counter)
2) If this was an advantage, cofag would have lowered attack last gen. This is just making up for a nerf to make it seem slightly less nerfed. Basically, Cofag will be slightly nerfed while the rest of UU is gonna power up
The big concern I have is that Cofag's role as a spin blocker is going to be reduced. It can't stop defogs, and now the (possibly) top spinner of the tier, Blastoise, can just straight up kill it. Its ability to spin block was just such a big draw for a spikes infested tier. I DO however see it blocking Donphan, then everyone complaining in the Usage stats thread, wondering how Donphan is still in the Top 5 in usage
It'll still be nice against the fighting types, but we'll have to wait and see how dominant fighting is going to be. If UU is indeed going to look like Gen 5 OU, then maybe it will be filled to the brim with fighting types (more so than last gen, lol) and Cofag can prosper in that environment. The way I see it, Cofag is just as good last gen at switching into fighting attacks, but a lot worse at blocking spins. Thus, there is one less reason to use Cofag, and with stuff falling down from OU, that one reason could be enough to push it down to RU.
The best chance I see for Cofag is if it reinvents itself. Maybe if Trick Room teams become really popular, though I don't see that happening. If Cofag were to stay good (not just relevant, but good) I think it would have to change its approach and focus
Another pokemon that benefitted from the steel nerf is Porygon-Z. It has fantastic neutral coverage with just just Tri Attack and Dark Pulse, which now hits Bronzong super-effectively. Even though Hidden Power was nerfed, it was really only used to hit Bisharp and Empoleon ( at least on the Adaptability sets) , because everything else was hit harder by a STAB Tri Attack, or Dark Pulse. Still, I think the trade off of possibly losing to Empoleon or Bisharp is great when Z gains the ability to get through Bronzong and Metagross. Tell me, what do you guys think of how Porygon-z will fare in UU this gen, and has it gained any significant new counters or checks?
PS. Jolteon and Raikou, though both electic types, do different things. Mac1275 said it, Jolteon is a good revenge killer and clean up sweeper, and it would be used in the manner that Choice Band Crobat was used in Gen 5. Raikou is a sweeper.
PS. Jolteon and Raikou, though both electic types, do different things. Mac1275 said it, Jolteon is a good revenge killer and clean up sweeper, and it would be used in the manner that Choice Band Crobat was used in Gen 5. Raikou is a sweeper.
I'm failling to see why Ninetales is going to drop to UU when even with the weather nerf it can work pretty effectively and doesn't uses the Mega spot which means that you can still use it with ChloroVenu and using MegaLuke for Tyranitar... Also, Ninetales have Nasty Plot + Energy Ball which can deal enough damage to Politoed and Tyranitar at +2 to be painful... Even a Nine+MChar can make a nice fire combo since Nine+CharY can do an excellent job keeping sun in the field and Nine+CharX can make a +1 Flare Blitz almost Unstopable even if is just for Two or Three turns since it can net easily a KO... Sorry for not doing the Math but i'm writing this in my cellphone! XD
Also, i'm pretty sure that Trevenant isn't going to reach even UU... It doesn't have the traits to deal with a lot of OU pokés (see Greninja, Aegislash and Talonflame) and thinking about how powerful is looking to be UU i think that Trev is going to be relegated... Finally, i don't see why Haxorus, Salamence, and Hydreigon should be BL... If we consider or suppose that UU is getting stronger with pokés like Jellicent, Metagross, Hippowdon and Clefable, why those dragons should be considered overpowered?
Finally, i don't understand why Zygarde is getting UU usage right now since i've been able to use an extremely efficient Coil set that can destroy relatively easy Azuma and Togekiss with EQ+ES and RS+ES which are two common switch ins and makes a nice late game cleaner... Also i think that Fletchinder can have some potential even with those stats just because even without Brave Bird, it can use Swords Dance + Acrobatics with a focus sash and deal with things like Quick Attack Diggersby and even cripple another not so fast thing with Will O Wisp...
Also, i'm pretty sure that Trevenant isn't going to reach even UU... It doesn't have the traits to deal with a lot of OU pokés (see Greninja, Aegislash and Talonflame) and thinking about how powerful is looking to be UU i think that Trev is going to be relegated... Finally, i don't see why Haxorus, Salamence, and Hydreigon should be BL... If we consider or suppose that UU is getting stronger with pokés like Jellicent, Metagross, Hippowdon and Clefable, why those dragons should be considered overpowered?
Finally, i don't understand why Zygarde is getting UU usage right now since i've been able to use an extremely efficient Coil set that can destroy relatively easy Azuma and Togekiss with EQ+ES and RS+ES which are two common switch ins and makes a nice late game cleaner... Also i think that Fletchinder can have some potential even with those stats just because even without Brave Bird, it can use Swords Dance + Acrobatics with a focus sash and deal with things like Quick Attack Diggersby and even cripple another not so fast thing with Will O Wisp...
Ninetales is not getting the usage to be OU. As of November, it only had about 1.5% usage, and showed no sign of rising. Its certainly a viable choice in OU, but then again, most good UU pokemon are.
Trevenant on the other hand is the 19th most popular pokemon with over 7% usage. I take that to mean its staying there for the foreseeable future.
Zygarde is an interesting case. Most people who've tried it say its very OU viable, but for multiple reasons, not many people use it. You have to remember that the metagame is still in flux. Other pokes that were thought to be OU without much debate are getting very little usage (Kyurem-B, Deoxys, Latias, and many others) while things like smeargle are getting huge usage. Lets let things settle and then we'll see.
As for fletchinder, while I agree its priority acrobatics is a great weapon, its atk and other stats are just too low. It'll probably have a nice niche in lower tiers, but without the power behind its moves, it can't do that much in UU.
Yup, i know that Ninetales is having less than OU usage and that's why is going to be UU but my question was really why Ninetales is getting that low usage when it can be used as effectively in OU as many high usage mons? Trev is getting high usage but i really think that is just because is a new toy... when people starts realizing that there are some others Bulky ghosts (if we can consider Trev a Bulky ghost which is kinda sad) that can spinblock more effectively Trev is going to fall for sure...
To get a little bit of my point with Ninetales now that i'm using a pc i'm presenting here some calcs:
+2 252 SpA Ninetales Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 192-226 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Ninetales Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Politoed: 286-338 (74.4 - 88%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Ninetales Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Politoed: 286-338 (74.4 - 88%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
Of course isn't a clean OHKO, but is more than enough damage to scare them...
+1 252 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 302-356 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 220-261 (57.2 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W in Sun: 270-318 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill in Sun: 344-405 (85.1 - 100.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent in Sun: 384-452 (95 - 111.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
That raw damage is just enough to justify Ninetales+MCharizardX IMO since i don't think it should be that hard to setup the sun and get a DD with MCharizard X...
Also IDK what is the big deal with Smeargle... the only new toy it gets is sticky web and i think Galvantula does it better... i've managed to taunt EVERY single Smeargle that i saw in 40 matches (around 15 of them) and getting them destroyed... so, when the meta starts to settle down, that one is going to be relegated as Trev...
Regarding Fletchinder... let's see some pokès that we are expecting on UU
+2 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 361-426 (89.3 - 105.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 204-240 (75 - 88.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Haxorus: 295-348 (97.6 - 115.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Salamence: 271-319 (81.8 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 295-348 (90.7 - 107%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Diggersby: 334-394 (89.3 - 105.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 237-279 (60.1 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 126-148 (37.7 - 44.3%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
And unless Gligar carries a move to hit Fletchinder or carries Taunt, there's nothing that Gligar can do and Fletchinder can go +6 relatively easy and then:
+6 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 250-295 (74.8 - 88.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Of course, i'm using adamant nature since i think that Fletch needs the power more than the speed thanks to that Priority Acrobatics and considering that Diggersby usually goes Adamant too, even having speed investment, so Fletchinder should have enough speed to destroy Diggers...
What do you think? :p
To get a little bit of my point with Ninetales now that i'm using a pc i'm presenting here some calcs:
+2 252 SpA Ninetales Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 192-226 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Ninetales Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Politoed: 286-338 (74.4 - 88%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Ninetales Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Politoed: 286-338 (74.4 - 88%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
Of course isn't a clean OHKO, but is more than enough damage to scare them...
+1 252 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 302-356 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 220-261 (57.2 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W in Sun: 270-318 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill in Sun: 344-405 (85.1 - 100.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent in Sun: 384-452 (95 - 111.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
That raw damage is just enough to justify Ninetales+MCharizardX IMO since i don't think it should be that hard to setup the sun and get a DD with MCharizard X...
Also IDK what is the big deal with Smeargle... the only new toy it gets is sticky web and i think Galvantula does it better... i've managed to taunt EVERY single Smeargle that i saw in 40 matches (around 15 of them) and getting them destroyed... so, when the meta starts to settle down, that one is going to be relegated as Trev...
Regarding Fletchinder... let's see some pokès that we are expecting on UU
+2 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 361-426 (89.3 - 105.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 204-240 (75 - 88.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Haxorus: 295-348 (97.6 - 115.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Salamence: 271-319 (81.8 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 295-348 (90.7 - 107%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Diggersby: 334-394 (89.3 - 105.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 237-279 (60.1 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 126-148 (37.7 - 44.3%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
And unless Gligar carries a move to hit Fletchinder or carries Taunt, there's nothing that Gligar can do and Fletchinder can go +6 relatively easy and then:
+6 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 250-295 (74.8 - 88.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Of course, i'm using adamant nature since i think that Fletch needs the power more than the speed thanks to that Priority Acrobatics and considering that Diggersby usually goes Adamant too, even having speed investment, so Fletchinder should have enough speed to destroy Diggers...
What do you think? :p
Yup, of course isn't going to be a field day trying to get that Fletch to +2 since it can't switch in unless you predict something like Will O Wisp... But if it get inside the match when Something of your own has been destroyed and you don't have SR in your side of the field, it can be a troubling poké that should be taken into consideration for teambuilding. Also, i Think it does synergizes well with Donphan since Fletchinder can create some Oportunities for Donphan to Switch in Rock and Electric moves, and then Rapid Spin the hazards. Vaporeon can complete that core being able to absorb the water moves that could be troubling for those two, don't u think? :3
I'm just speculating of course but that can be nice to use *_*
Basically speaking, you can use just about any pokemon in any tier and have success with it if you have team support. Fletchinder probably will have a niche, but it faces competition from a lot of flying types that are also trying to rise, and the huge number of fire types in UU. You can probably use him, but since he has trouble getting that SD off, there won't be that many other using it
Well of course it does need support but its niche is just spamming an absurdly strong STAB Priority move (absurdly not because of Fletch power but just because of being a 165 BP Priority)... Also you can't consider Fletching a Fire Type since doesn't have good Fire Moves to use (unless you consider Overheat from less than 60 Base Special Attack) so is going to be used more like a Normal/Flying type without the immunity against Ghost! XD i think that Fletch can be a nice stop against HO teams...
Aside from some obvious incorporations to UU such as the much over discussed Ninetales and Politoed there are many Pokemon which i think have deeply benefited from this generation and therefore would be a solid choice in UU, even though they are currently overlooked by other Pokemon at the moment. My two main suspects at the moment are Tangrowth and Escavalier. In first place, Tangrowth gained a couple of recent improved moves such as the buffs received in the form of knock off, energy ball... and it has also gained a very useful item in the form of assault vest, which goes very well with its Regenerator ability, allowing it to take hits from the special side, which was his main flaw during the previous generations and therefore is almost like a dream for him. These characteristics on their own make it a force to be reckoned with, since it can now take hits from both sides and retaliate with moves like knock off, crippling the object carried by the opponent and even get its health restored with Gigadrain and Regenerator.
Escavalier, on the other side, also gained new improved moves such as the buffed knock off and drill run, alongside with its improved ability in the form of overcoat and it's good defensive typing and stats (70/105/105), which make him a solid assault vest user, being able to switch into powerful moves like draco meteor. Alongside of these buffs he is also a formidable choice band and swords dance user with acces to powerful moves such as mega horn, pursuit, iron head (for nailing fairies), etc.
Escavalier, on the other side, also gained new improved moves such as the buffed knock off and drill run, alongside with its improved ability in the form of overcoat and it's good defensive typing and stats (70/105/105), which make him a solid assault vest user, being able to switch into powerful moves like draco meteor. Alongside of these buffs he is also a formidable choice band and swords dance user with acces to powerful moves such as mega horn, pursuit, iron head (for nailing fairies), etc.
Ninetales is dropping because it wasn't great to begin with, sun was nerfed greatly, and YZard is generally the more useful/used of the two weather setters, since it's actually, you know, good. Ninetales' biggest niches are being only x2 weak to SR, being able to hold a Heat Rock, and being able to use Mega Houndoom with it, which, compared to the merits of Charizard Y... Isn't much, particularly since Ninetales doesn't even have reliable recovery.
Tangrowth is a cool guy, something I didn't think of personally. Regenerator is a kickass ability, and Assault Vest pairs beautifully with Regenerator; reminds me of Slowbro in OU {whether or not it'll end up as OU is the question, but apparently it's quite good on the Daunting Dreadnoughts, a popular XY OU stall team}. Knock Off is an excellent attack that'll definitely get more use as more people become aware of its sheer utility. Tangrowth is also fairly strong, as you've said, and has decent power on both sides of the spectrum [100/110 offences]; having access to nice moves like Power Whip, Earthquake, Poison Jab {faeries/fellow grass-types}, Rock Slide, and Knock off, while having Infestation, Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, and Focus Blast on the special side. If you decide to go the lefties route, it also has Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, and obviously Toxic. Looking forward to seeing more of him.
Escavalier, though, holy shanks I love that thing. Ridiculously strong CB Mega Horns, Iron Head for faeries, Knock off for... Anything, Pursuit for powerful trapping, and Drill Run as a new addition, punching through steels and fire-types. That said, it's a tough choice between Pursuit and Drill Run; the former is great for trapping Pokemon like Azelf and Mismagius, while the latter is great for unaware fire-types to meet a buttload of damage/an outright KO {particularly after SR}. Swords Dance sets make this only worse, as you've only three attacks to abuse.
Oh, yes, and Overcoat is nice for avoiding Spore/Sleep Powder and Hail shenanigans, while Swarm-boosted Mega Horn is incredibly strong. To put it into perspective...
252+ Atk Choice Band Swarm Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 384-453 (95 - 112.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Max/Max Swampert is probably gonna go down in one hit, ladies and gentlemen.
252+ Atk Choice Band Swarm Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Registeel: 174-206 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
It can 2HKO Registeel, a resist with base 150 defence.
guys what are you even doing here just use this thing in uu please it was underrated last gen too
this is of course ignoring how cool it looks
come on guys
Tangrowth is a cool guy, something I didn't think of personally. Regenerator is a kickass ability, and Assault Vest pairs beautifully with Regenerator; reminds me of Slowbro in OU {whether or not it'll end up as OU is the question, but apparently it's quite good on the Daunting Dreadnoughts, a popular XY OU stall team}. Knock Off is an excellent attack that'll definitely get more use as more people become aware of its sheer utility. Tangrowth is also fairly strong, as you've said, and has decent power on both sides of the spectrum [100/110 offences]; having access to nice moves like Power Whip, Earthquake, Poison Jab {faeries/fellow grass-types}, Rock Slide, and Knock off, while having Infestation, Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, and Focus Blast on the special side. If you decide to go the lefties route, it also has Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, and obviously Toxic. Looking forward to seeing more of him.
Escavalier, though, holy shanks I love that thing. Ridiculously strong CB Mega Horns, Iron Head for faeries, Knock off for... Anything, Pursuit for powerful trapping, and Drill Run as a new addition, punching through steels and fire-types. That said, it's a tough choice between Pursuit and Drill Run; the former is great for trapping Pokemon like Azelf and Mismagius, while the latter is great for unaware fire-types to meet a buttload of damage/an outright KO {particularly after SR}. Swords Dance sets make this only worse, as you've only three attacks to abuse.
Oh, yes, and Overcoat is nice for avoiding Spore/Sleep Powder and Hail shenanigans, while Swarm-boosted Mega Horn is incredibly strong. To put it into perspective...
252+ Atk Choice Band Swarm Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 384-453 (95 - 112.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Max/Max Swampert is probably gonna go down in one hit, ladies and gentlemen.
252+ Atk Choice Band Swarm Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Registeel: 174-206 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
It can 2HKO Registeel, a resist with base 150 defence.
guys what are you even doing here just use this thing in uu please it was underrated last gen too
this is of course ignoring how cool it looks
come on guys
Good luck switching in Escavelier on Swampert Earthquake and having the oportunity of dealing two Choice Band SWARM Megahorns to Registeel... If you don't Believe me...
252+ Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 153-181 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Of course your calculation gives us an idea of the raw power of this thing that almost for sure is becoming UU, but it still have some issues, especially because of that speed, since it will probably only do one Swarm boosted hit at best... Also, you run Overcoat for avoiding sleep powder or run Swarm for that boost on damage which means that you can't be using both...
Well, I didn't intend to say you could switch in; good luck doing that with 33% left, even though Escavalier is rather bulky, with 70/105/105 being more than decent - tanking a 150 power attack from a max attack Pokemon with base 110 attack that well is a testament to that. A more likely scenario would be tanking the aforementioned hit and retaliating with that meaty Megahorn.
It can, however, survive and get two Swarm Megahorns off on Registeel if it's at 30-33% after the first one, not that it's particularly important.
Registeel Seismic Toss vs. 252 HP Escavalier: 100-100 (29 - 29%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Didn't say that you could run both, was simply listing the good parts of each.
What do you guys think of Victini this gen? Ghost and Dark have gotten buffed, it's true - Knock Off being buffed as well is huge for Victini, and not in a good way - and with Hydreigon's possible remaining in UU [provided it is not banned to BL, which is quite possible], it may in fact be actually worse than it was last gen. This fact might also help it slightly, however; Pokemon of these types may end up moving to OU or otherwise removed from UU due to their rather considerable buff [though obviously not all of them, which means this isn't a consistent "good point"]. Furthermore, rocks are easier to remove than ever, and Victini gains a nifty faerie resistance for the plethora of faeries that will probably end up below OU {Florges, Sylveon [?], Carbink, Granbull, Wigglytuff, Clefable [?], probably more that I've forgotten} - not that all of them will be UU-relevant, of course.
Personally, I think the buff of Ghost/Dark makes Victini slightly worse than before, but still a potent threat with those nuclear V-Creates in particular, and its sheer versatility overall.
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Victini is slightly worse because its weaknesses got buffed, but why are you switching it into a prospective Knock Off user? Alternatively, pivot around that Tangrowth so it won't use Knock Off (IE: slow U-Turn, or bring out your Houndoom or something).
CB V-Create still 2HKOes Jellicent (barring 252/252 Bold variants) and offensive Tyranitar. In Sand. Also if you can get Sun up for a little bit (IE: If Ninetales falls into UU), then Kingdra is taking 54% minimum from that V-Create.
And it still gets Bolt Strike.
CB V-Create still 2HKOes Jellicent (barring 252/252 Bold variants) and offensive Tyranitar. In Sand. Also if you can get Sun up for a little bit (IE: If Ninetales falls into UU), then Kingdra is taking 54% minimum from that V-Create.
And it still gets Bolt Strike.
Wow... Imagining Kingdra taking a 2HKO from a Fire attack is really an amazing feat (of course, that Waterfall is going to be painful)...which means that if Ninetales manages to get into UU, Victini is going to be as strong as ever...
If people are right and XY UU gonna be full of dragons and weather team, I think one of the biggest UU's anti-meta pokemon gonna be lapras.
Lapras didn't get this gen alot, except for freeze dry, but thats such a big change. Freeze dry is such sn amazing move, which mess up alot of people preperations. I having a huge success with my lapras and freeze dry is the main reason.
Along with water absorb, lapras make fun of rain team, and ice is still the best dragon killing attack.
Along with this he have ice shard, which isn't just a good priority move, but also a great way to catch people who except special attacker of guard.
I can keep talking about Lapras even more, but I will just finish up with this-
Lapras is a good pokemon, use it.
Lapras didn't get this gen alot, except for freeze dry, but thats such a big change. Freeze dry is such sn amazing move, which mess up alot of people preperations. I having a huge success with my lapras and freeze dry is the main reason.
Along with water absorb, lapras make fun of rain team, and ice is still the best dragon killing attack.
Along with this he have ice shard, which isn't just a good priority move, but also a great way to catch people who except special attacker of guard.
I can keep talking about Lapras even more, but I will just finish up with this-
Lapras is a good pokemon, use it.
May i say pangoro has a good shot at getting into us with a choice scarf set, it's movepool after poke bank, may help it make cut for ou, but it will be solid at the moment in uu
Nah, the only way lapras makes UU is if Vaporeon, Gastrodon, and Milotic all make OU. There are way too many bulky water pokemon in UU as is and it seems as though two more may end up dropping. If Gastrodon drops, it will be the premier anti-weather pokemon in UU and it just so happens to have much better typing and stat spread. Lapras is too weak, has mediocre typing, and has no reliable way to recover unlike milotic, gastrodon, and vaporeon. Lapras was NU last generation for a reason and it didn't gain nearly enough to justify use now. Oh and Ice shard from abomasnow or weaville is a more effective dragon killing tool than an ice shard from lapras.
Pangoro has a very unfortunate stat distribution so even with a slightly better movepool, it'll be lucky to make UU. Average Defense and crap Speed does it's no favors when it's typing leaves it weak to both Fighting and Ground types. It's probably be RU at best.
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