It's not like Registeel's going to be KO'd by Flamethrower, he'll take it for pebbles.
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Unofficial UUs (Read Post #13) (don't post bugs here)
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Donphan: The only niche it had in Gen 5 OU was that his typing was perfect for dedicated Sun teams which needed heavy Rock resist, while Rapid Spinner was also something they appreciated. Donphan provided both of those and honestly with permanent sun it kind of made sense to see him in OU. But now ? Not really when dedicated Sun teams are as common as Tigers in the wild. Heck, he is a spinner which has TROUBLE to spin through ghosts, which is just sad. While Knock Off buff kinda helps here, it means that you MUST sacrifice his bulk by investing EVs in Attack, which Donphan really hates. Donphan NEEDS all bulk to do his job (so it means it doesn't have enough power), so he's in kinda bad spot no matter which way it EVs. And how it looks when compared to other Spinners ?
Excadrill - Great typing with good enough movepool to hit Ghost hard. Heck, it also has access to Swords Dance, which boost his power to ridiculous levels. Good luck trying to spin block +2 Excadrill, it's a really hard thing to do. Or it may carry Assault Vest and and tank hits on BOTH defensive sides unlike Donphan. Also additional Steel typing means that he can actually handle dragons, unlike Donphan (+1 Outrage from technically every single relevant OU Dragon is 2HKO on Donphan anyway and Dragonite doesn't give a crap about his Stone Edge/Ice Shard [LOL] because of Multiscale so he wins anyway). And obviously he can't handle ANY special based dragons, which Excadrill actually is capable of doing, especially with Assault Vest. Steel/Ground > Mono Ground, no questions about it.
MegaBlastoise - I really, REALLY don't understand how MegaBlastoise is not used more than Donphan as dedicated Rapid Spinner. It's bulk is so damn good, while unlike Donphan it hits like a nuke everything except dedicated special walls. 120 base power Dark Pulse means that there is ONLY ONE Non-Uber Ghost capable of avoiding 2HKO from this thing and this ghost is... SpD Spiritomb, which looses 1on1 anyway as his offfensive prowess is just pathetic. MegaBlastoise is one of my favorite Megas and it works every single time I use him. While it sucks that he takes mega slot, I also tried AV Blastoise, which isn't as good obviously, but it still was ok pick.
Starmie - Great speed matched up by solid power with great movepool to back it up. Also access to Recover means that he actually can take some hits and recover HP back later on when needed. STAB Hydro Pump, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt allows it to hit technically all Ghost really hard. It also has an option of using Analytic, so it hits even harder on switch. It's also really good revenge killer and really good pick for offensive teams which also needs a Spinner.
Yeah, those 3 just outclass Donphan at Rapid Spinning.
Bisharp: 20 more base speed (which actually matters against some dedicated walls, as MegaMawile is so damn sloooow) with Dark/Steel STAB combination being so much better this Generation. BTW if you switch on Sticky Web/Defog and Swords Dance on switch, his Sucker Punch is stronger than MegaMawiles after +2. So yeah, I don't think he is outclassed in terms of power. And let's face it - both of those rely on it heavily, so point here goes to Bisharp. Also I don't know why someone would mention Fairies here, as STAB Steel attack obliterate them hard (I'm pretty sure Azumarill won't enjoy +2 Iron Head, especially after Defiant bonus). Also he is capable of carrying Choice items, which are worse than SD set, are still ok option to consider. So honestly saying that MegaMawile outclasses it (which ISN'T true) is just false. And in many cases I'd rather pick Bisharp (and he doesn't take mega slot as well). Oh and when we talk about Megas, he has pretty good type synergy with S Rank MegaVenusaur as he can handle both Flying and Psychic attacks aimed on it.
Galvantula: Overrated hazard, which is so easy to ignore with so many Levitate/Flying Pokemon flying around or you may just build dedicated Bulky Offense team which rely more on taking hit and giving even harder one back instead of speed. Also with Excadrill (good luck ghosts), MegaBlastoise (GOOD LUCK GHOSTS :D) and an option of Defog means it's much, much harder to keep up. Especially taking into account that it may be hard to throw it more than once on battlefield with something as frail as Galvantula. Heck, Galvantula is many cases screams suicide lead (and for Suicide Sticky Web I'd rather use Smeargle, as he can use STAB Explosion on coming Defogger, so he can't Defog Sticky Web out). People will realize this sooner or later. Of course SW is good hazard, metagame just IMO isn't that kind to it. If it was introduced in Gen 5, I would call it great. Now ? It's solid, but still possible to ignore.
Klefki: It's just an annoying gimmick, which is easy to handle, as long as you have something which ignores T-Wave or Swagger (which isn't that hard to find, especially T-Wave). Also his lack of Taunt really damn suck, as it may end up as a set-up fodder for something really damn deadly. For dedicated Spiker/Dual Screener I'd rather use something else (and while his typing is good, that BST just suck, so it won't take really strong neutral hits that well). Luck based annoyers were always popular (Serene Grace Togekiss + Jirachi, yeah) but good teams always had a way to easily handle them. And Klefki unlike those two is predictible as hell. Jirachi or Togekiss instead of Serene Grace annoyers could easily go offensive, so wrong switch-in on them could be fatal in some cases. Klefki is as one-dimensional as it can be.
Smeargle: I've never been a fan of Baton Pass teams, as one wrong move or good opponents prediction meant that your BP chain is screwed. Lucky crit could be really fatal as well if it happened early on (and now with increased crit ratio it may happen more often). Spore while great sleep move, received pretty heavy nerf this Gen (Grass Type totally ignore it now), so it's much more easy to handle. Also new-old RestTalk mechanics doesn't help it either. And about hazards - I mentioned reasons already, so I don't see a reason to repeat those again. While good Hyper Offense team can apply good enough pressure to keep those hazards up against Defoggers, something more offensive like MegaBlastoise or Starmie may pressure those teams if used right IMO.
Tentacruel: Taking into account how popular MegaVenusaur is (YEAH), Defog and Good Rapid Spinners means that it is the worst entry hazard now. Also the heavy amount of Levitate/Flying Pokemon in this meta means that it is easy to ignore. And if someone for some reason hates Tentacruel (why would he?) Azumarill may carry Double Edge, which on CB set hurts Tentacruel like hell. Or you may... I don't know... carry trapper like Dugtrio or Gothitelle which by strange coincidence both have attacks which hits Tentacruel for SE damage, so Azumarill has free reign to do whatever he want after. Tickle/Encore Wobbuffet + Pursuit Tyranitar/Scizor can own Tentacruel as easily, 100% eliminating it from the match with Pursuit. So yeah, working around Tentacruel can be pretty easy if you want it out of the match for Azumarill to do whatever it wants.
And now second part of your post:
Latias: STAB Psyshock allow it to ignore AV, which is something she may run more often now. Also you can't ignore that special bulk and in overall good BST to back her up. Also she can use few good sets, with mentioned SubCM being the best one. While some new things are annoying (like AV and Fairies), Latias can still work as a great support Pokemon with Wish and Double Screens instead of bulky attacking. Maybe not top-tier threat, but IMO still solid OU.
Hydreigon: While Faires are annoying for him, he still has tools to deal with them (like Flash Cannon) or he may just U-Turn out from them, technically ignoring them. It still has the ability to 2HKO most of stuff in OU with right prediction.
Deoxys-S: Nah, reason is probably because suicide hazards (outside of really good HO) are less effective, which is kind of true, but not every single team carries Defog/Rapid Spinners, but as mentioned before Spikes are easier to ignore now and people forget that Deoxys-S is also pretty good revenge killer (this speed is just sweet, which technically means you have Choice Scarf Pokemon without Scarf), Dual Screener or even if you feel ballsy enough Nasty Plot set as it has passable bulk to find this free turn and it survives pretty much all priority hits (well except CB Brave Bird from Talonflame). I really don't think people are THAT stupid to not make a difference between Deoxys and Deoxys-S.
Deoxys-D: While I prefer to lead with Deo-S, it still works well as a lead, while it may also work as a Bulky Spiker with Recover and good bulk outside of it. Agility + Toxic + Taunt sets while rare, may be really damn annoying for teams which can't straight up KO it as it's impossible to phaze after Agility (and it has pretty decent base speed) and may stall PP of some moves out with Pressure. But still - it should be OU IMO.
Kyurem-B - Anyone who used this guy knows how hard it is to handle for slower teams. And even faster ones won't enjoy switching into this guy, taking into account power of this thing and the ability to go mixed. Fairies doesn't affect this guy much actually. Azumarill ? Bolt Strike. Togekiss ? STAB Ice Beam/Bolt Strike. Florges/Sylveon ? Iron Head, especially if you are ready to drop Substitute or Roost. So yeah, it has a way to ignore technically ALL fairies with right coverage move. And it also can carry HP Fire for Steel types. And before you mention typing - while Ice/Dragon isn't the best thing around, this guy has ridiculous bulk. 125/100/90 bulk for something with this much power is just amazing (and Dragon still provide good resistances to switch into). When you look on something that easily takes CB Adamant Bullet Punch from Scizor while being x2 weak to it, than you must respect his natural bulk. This thing when used right is scary. And if you can provide it Sticky Web/Paralysis support... YIKES. Heck, many OU teams have trouble with this thing when used well. UU teams may struggle even more...
Manaphy - This thing doesn't need permanent Rain, especially if you use it late game, when everything is weakened. Tail Glow is just AMAZING boosting move and can rip to shreds weakened teams. Also ChestoRest Tail Glow is a possibility as well if you want to be sure you get +6 bonus (and with 100/100/100 natural bulk + great water typing it's not hard to do). It may not have access to permanent rain and you may need to use Manaphy a bit later on in the game, but it can still wreck unprepared teams. Also Bulky Calm Mind is acceptable alternative, especially with ChestoRest if you want to kind of mimick old bulky boosting play. In theory this thing in UU may totally wreck as it has deadly combination of good typing, power and bulk.
Hippowdon - Reliable recovery means that it can actually carry Stone to make Sandstorm team somewhat viable (unlike TTar). Also his physical bulk is really damn good (and can also work as special wall with investment) and many defensive teams still appreciate his great bulk AND passive damage from Sandstorm. IMO deserved OU, even if only low. His niche in OU is more than solid (much more than friggin Donphans).
Tornadus-T - As mentioned Politoad may still carry Damp Rock and I think Tornadus-S with Regenerator is ok Assault Vest user as well. And if you look for dedicated weather teams, Rain teams are IMO best options now with nerf as I assure you that offensive Rain Dance teams are 100% viable (especially with Kingdra in).
So... I'm afraid I disagree with your post totally.
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Just to give a quick calculation on the Azumarill point:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 437-515 (108.1 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Of course, if this isn't on a switch, missing gets you 1-hit back by superpower, but I'd imagine the point still stands.
What? No, Bisharp is arguably better than Mawile. Sure, it's weaker and has a worse defensive typing, but it's faster, its offensive typing is better and much harder to wall, it can use Life Orb, and has STAB on Sucker Punch.
In fact, thanks to STAB and Life Orb, Bisharp's Sucker Punch is actually more powerful than Mawile's:
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 616-726 (244.4 - 288%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 681-803 (270.2 - 318.6%)
Also, Bisharp has Knock Off.
Also, Bisharp can use Defiant to abuse Sticky Web and Intimidate.
Bisharp should eventually get more usage than Mawile.
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SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT KLEFKI
Hi, I found a big bug in the UU Tier. You can apparently use other Genesect forms like Genesect-Burn. Also, Aegislash-Blade is allowed. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uubeta-75758089
I was going to say "post in the bug reports thread in the PS forum" but someone beat you to it.
People stop posting bugs here damnit.
A voice on PS told me to post to this link... I guess I can't trust voices...
Pinsir requires some support but it's probably the best Mega after M-lucario when it comes to pure offense, Aerilate give it ridiculously good STABs and priority, and its ability to run Flying AND Ground, which offer fantastic coverage and which few other pokemon can viably run, off its massive attack mean it can sweep a lot of teams after one SD.
It hits hard and has good priority. 4x weakness to Stealth Rock is its one drawback but Talonflame has that and it's #2.
So talking about klefki is against the rules now?
Most people ive seen have been running defog latiaz but with bisharp running around i think people are going to go back to good ol' rapid spinners. Personally i like mega blastoise since it can do more than just take hits and spin. Aura sphere and dark pulse make it a very useful poke hitting the ghosts and bisharp.
I don't think the mere existence of bisharp is enough to make defog go away. There is always the problem that you can't use any of the other megas (that do very well in UU) if you use blastoise, and the other spinners are just not so great. Latias is just a great pokemon overall, and if bishar is such a huge problem you can always use HP fighting to get him on the switch. (Plus bisharp's usage is rising so there is some chance we will end up in OU)
Very true but what other reliabke defoggers or spinners are there? Claydol? Hitmontop? Donphan? Mega blastoise has a mega launcher boosted dark pulse coming off a base 135 sp attack that obliterates any ghost coupled with fantastic defense capabilities. What other defoggers are worth using other than latias? Empoleon is probably the only worthwhile one.
Bisharp can definitely go either ou or uu but lets keep in mind it still has pretty solid checks in uu alone including cobalion which can use bisharp as setup bait. Lets not forget mega hera which resists dark and doesnt lose its item with knock off.
In ou you have faster fighting types with priority like conkeldurr breloom and bulky pokes like mega lucario. I think bisharp may be in uu to stay imo but itll be an immense threat
Klefki is OU and this is UU. If you want to raise a stink about Klefki, do it in the Klefki thread in the OU forum. This isn't the place.
Then half of kemjurs post is off topic. Since he (and many previous posters) are discussing what they consider overated OUs. I just pointed out that what he said about entry on klefki is couldn't be more wrong.
I'd recommend just dropping the topic off here, Arcticblast wasn't directing his post solely at you so there's no reason to get defensive.
As for Latias, it's a beast in the current metagame. Latias can run many effective sets, the one I love to run is a late-game SubCM set since it is very easy to set up with Bisharp and Escavalier gone, and can even beat Florges one-on-one granted Florges switches into something other than a Dragon Pulse. Latias is unarguably the best Defog user in the tier, but is heavily hindered by Bisharp. Running Hidden Power Fighting on it really isn't an option since Latias needs Roost/Defog/both its STABs to be completely effective. Moreover, Hidden Power Fighting can ONLY deal with Bisharp and Weavile, and again that is only if they directly switch into it. A completely offensive set with Life Orb or Choice Specs is also really cool, since it nukes pretty much everything that doesn't resist Dragon with Draco Metoer, and Latias still has the special bulk to outright wall Keldeo. Latias can even opt to support Pokemon with dual screens, although it does face 4MSS with this since it needs to run all of Roost/Psyshock/Dragon Pulse/(maybe)Defog. Latias's best check is AV Escavalier, since even Hidden Power Fire doesn't always 2HKO while it destroys Latias with Megahorn. Florges also does a good job against Latias, but will lose to SubCM sets unless the opponent mispredicts. Overall, Latias is a dominant force, but it still has issues with a select few common Pokemon that keep it at bay.
To be fair that x4 weakness generally won't hit him as often considering that he generally is there to stay once he Mega-evolves, so at best you'd only have -25% of your health due to being mono-bug on switch in, since he goes in to clean up or sweep. I don't see it as being very good to mega-evolve while hard counters or checks like Rotom-W or Skarmory are still running about.
It's funny because that fucker got banned like twenty minutes ago.
It could be possible that UU could simply be more offensive, and stronger than last gen. I know the idea of thundurus-t in UU is ridiculous, since we were more used to stuff like raikou last gen... but perhaps we need to realize thundurus-t is a new UU staple and raikou is now RU. Tiering should be open minded and not based on yesterday's expectations.
That being said a lot of shat will be banned. I feel like this gen UU will be a pretty shity tier with a lot of OU's leftovers. Toed, and ridiculous powerhouses, chansey... we shall see.
That being said a lot of shat will be banned. I feel like this gen UU will be a pretty shity tier with a lot of OU's leftovers. Toed, and ridiculous powerhouses, chansey... we shall see.
UnicornDemon
Banned deucer.
Is there a ranking cut-off used to determine the statistics for what pokemon constitute OU? Like, only usage statistics for rankings of 1850+ on the ladder will be used to determine tiers?
I ask because the placement of certain pokemon in either OU or UU suggest otherwise.
I ask because the placement of certain pokemon in either OU or UU suggest otherwise.
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Dread Arceus
total cockhead
The formula he uses is
Three month usage = (20*LastMonth+3*OneMonthAgo+1*TwoMonthsAgo)/24 (taken from post #2)
The cutoff is 3.41%~
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