Metagame NP: RU Stage -1: Message to Oglemi, Nails, and Honko (VENOMOTH STOLEN FROM US))

[termi]

Is running BD Slurpuff really worth it? I know its ability complements it very well, but its moveset doesn't at all. It seriously only gets 2 physical moves and one of them isn't even super effective against anything.

Don't get me wrong, Slurpuff isn't a bad pokemon at all. I actually think running a supportive or special attacking set can be extremely good. I just think BD Slurpuff is underwhelming since it can't hit that much.

It hits pretty much anything neutrally outside of steels, so pair it up with a Dugtrio and/or a Magnet Pull Magneton and it can put in some work. Haven't used it myself, but the tier definitely has the right mons for Slurpuff to function well.

 

[MikeDawg]

Perhaps pairing puff up with magneton would be ideal?

After setting up, what can really stop it? Cress, rhyperior, registeel and escavalier?

Get rid of/weaken these and you can clean sweep

Which brings up the topic of the best 4th move for bd slurpuff. It can follow in its prevo's footsteps with flamethrower, but that only really deals with durant and weakened escav.

It can use sub to avoid priority/mons it cant 1hko

Cotton guard can be useful

Wish is interesting because it can theoretically being slurpuff back to proper health, though this wont fare well against offensive mons

Regardless, slurpuff, especially with a mach/sucker punch resistance, is so dangerous. It can clean sweep a team mid/late game at the drop of a hat

 

[aVocado]

Slurpuff is so fucking threatening. Even 252 HP Rhyperior dies to an adamant +6 Play Rough. It needs 252 HP / 20 Def to 100% live a Play Rough at max health, as it does 99.6% maximum with that spread.

Amazing typing is even more reason why its good, resisting common priority.

 

[MikeDawg]

I don't know if it's just me, but my team struggles extraoridnarily against the amoongus/almolomomolo core. I'm somewhat lacking in raw firepower, and so the two are nearly impossible to break, and they require a lot of playing around. How have other people handled this?

 

[GlassGlaceon]

I don't know if it's just me, but my team struggles extraoridnarily against the amoongus/almolomomolo core. I'm somewhat lacking in raw firepower, and so the two are nearly impossible to break, and they require a lot of playing around. How have other people handled this?

dude just use the fiery Ms
Mixed Emboar
Magmortar
Moltres

 

[g]

I don't know if it's just me, but my team struggles extraoridnarily against the amoongus/almolomomolo core. I'm somewhat lacking in raw firepower, and so the two are nearly impossible to break, and they require a lot of playing around. How have other people handled this?

Delphox can beat both mons with relative ease

 

[aVocado]

I don't know if it's just me, but my team struggles extraoridnarily against the amoongus/almolomomolo core. I'm somewhat lacking in raw firepower, and so the two are nearly impossible to break, and they require a lot of playing around. How have other people handled this?

Moltres can break both with ease, especially if said Alomomola is running Scald, because that does piss poor damage and Moltres KOs with Hurricane + Fire Blast is physically defensive, and 2 hurricanes if specially defensive, but you gotta be wary of the latter because it's probably MirrorMola.

edit: welp, double greninja'd

 

[atomicllamas]

Just so everyone knows, UU has banned Venomoth, I'm not sure when this will be live on the ladder, but feel free to discuss a moth free meta game in the mean time. I doubt much will change to be honest, as it had low usage and there are still similar (albeit different) pokemon that every team needs to cover.

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

vivillon will probably be better now that its main competition is kill

 

[EonX]

I don't know if it's just me, but my team struggles extraoridnarily against the amoongus/almolomomolo core. I'm somewhat lacking in raw firepower, and so the two are nearly impossible to break, and they require a lot of playing around. How have other people handled this?

Well, they aren't the easiest to break, but there are ways around them. Moltres and Delphox are two of the best responses as its STAB Hurricane runs through both of them handily. Virizion can easily come in on Momo to setup an SD on the switch to Amoonguss, and then SD again as Lum Berry gets her around sleep, but note that if Amoonguss has Clear Smog, this could pose some issues. Another way is Zoroark, particularly, a special attacking set that runs Dark Pulse / Night Daze and Flamethrower. This will easily cut through Momo while having Flamethrower to deal out serious damage to Amoonguss. It may not totally break the core, but it will put heavy hits on both ends of it to make it easier to break later.

As for the Venomoth ban in UU, I think it somewhat does have an impact here. (it definitely does in NU alpha, or whatever the hell they're calling it) Venomoth was one of those criminally underused Pokemon (much like Virizion) so it nips QuiverPass in the bud before people could catch on to how potent it could be. Obviously, a lot of the Grass-types will benefit from this as Venomoth would commonly use them as setup bait. Vivillon is now the only QD Pokemon worth using, so she can probably rise a little in usage. There may be some others I'm missing, but those are my initial impressions.

 

[DGpegasus]

I suppose the Slurpuff users I've seen are just using it wrong. The ones I face usually let it die early after it has set-up. It seems more like a mid-late game sweeper.

 

[rob.]

R.I.P Our All Terrain Dragon Slayer ;__;

 

[TROP]

R.I.P Our All Terrain Dragon Slayer ;__;

fixed for you

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

isn't being banned from 3 tiers at once a new record? wd koko

 

[TROP]

isn't being banned from 3 tiers at once a new record? wd koko

no
Gothitelle was banned from 3 before (4 if you want to count lol PU)

 

[Turtleye]

QuiverPass is dead now, but luckily we still have SmashPass

 

[Durant]

QuiverPass is dead now, but luckily we still have SmashPass

There is always Masquerain but that is Masquerain.

 

[Turtleye]

There is always Masquerain but that is Masquerain.

wait what that learsn Baton Pass

I think Masquerain has better things to do than QuiverPass this gen (I.e. Sticky Web) but I geuss you're right.
But it's still Masquerain :I

 

[apt-get]

Well, they aren't the easiest to break, but there are ways around them. Moltres and Delphox are two of the best responses as its STAB Hurricane runs through both of them handily. Virizion can easily come in on Momo to setup an SD on the switch to Amoonguss, and then SD again as Lum Berry gets her around sleep, but note that if Amoonguss has Clear Smog, this could pose some issues. Another way is Zoroark, particularly, a special attacking set that runs Dark Pulse / Night Daze and Flamethrower. This will easily cut through Momo while having Flamethrower to deal out serious damage to Amoonguss. It may not totally break the core, but it will put heavy hits on both ends of it to make it easier to break later.

As for the Venomoth ban in UU, I think it somewhat does have an impact here. (it definitely does in NU alpha, or whatever the hell they're calling it) Venomoth was one of those criminally underused Pokemon (much like Virizion) so it nips QuiverPass in the bud before people could catch on to how potent it could be. Obviously, a lot of the Grass-types will benefit from this as Venomoth would commonly use them as setup bait. Vivillon is now the only QD Pokemon worth using, so she can probably rise a little in usage. There may be some others I'm missing, but those are my initial impressions.

I just wanted to say that virizion, being a grass-type, is already immune to "powder" and "spore" moves. n_n

 

[Molk]

Perhaps pairing puff up with magneton would be ideal?

After setting up, what can really stop it? Cress, rhyperior, registeel and escavalier?

Get rid of/weaken these and you can clean sweep

Which brings up the topic of the best 4th move for bd slurpuff. It can follow in its prevo's footsteps with flamethrower, but that only really deals with durant and weakened escav.

It can use sub to avoid priority/mons it cant 1hko

Cotton guard can be useful

Wish is interesting because it can theoretically being slurpuff back to proper health, though this wont fare well against offensive mons

Regardless, slurpuff, especially with a mach/sucker punch resistance, is so dangerous. It can clean sweep a team mid/late game at the drop of a hat

One Pokemon i've always liked to pair along with Slurpuff is Mixed Zoroark. It doesn't outright trap and eliminate annoying Steel-types like Magneton can, but it serves as a very effective lure when disguised as puffer imo. Most of the Pokemon Slurpuff struggles with after set up are either Steel-types such as Escavalier, Doublade, and Registeel, or simply extremely physically bulky Pokemon such as the aforementioned Rhyperior and Cresselia. Out of these, a Zoroark disguised as Slurpuff can lure in and eliminate pretty much all of them with a combination of Knock Off, Flamethrower, and Grass Knot, making it much easier for Slurpuff to sweep later on in the game. The fact that Slurpuff uses Belly Drum makes this that much more effective imo, since Slurpuff's sheer power at +6 not only means its that much easier for Zoroark to simply weaken potential checks into KO range, but also forces opponents to think twice about not sending in their check, as they could be risking the real Slurpuff getting a free +6, especially considering that a lot of the zoroark checks such as Fighting-types and Aromatisse don't exactly fare well against a +6 Slurpuff lol. Lastly, Zoroark can use Memento in its last moveslot over Grass Knot quite effectively, possibly granting Slurpuff free set up against the aforementioned fighters and fairies.

As for filler moves on Slurpuff, Yawn is an interesting option, if you predict a check or counter switching in, you can simply yawn on the switch and force the opponent between a rock and a hard place, they either have to switch out and possibly let Slurpuff get +6, or stay in and end up with their Slurpuff check asleep, cool indeed.

 

[JMcFizz]

If you're really looking to keep trying to QuiverPass, Masquerain really isn't the way to go. One poke I used last gen that was interesting for QP is Smeargle. It gets QD and BP, and works better as a QP poke than Masquerain.
Also sad Moth is gone, twas good while it lasted.

 

[astromund]

I don't know if it's just me, but my team struggles extraoridnarily against the amoongus/almolomomolo core. I'm somewhat lacking in raw firepower, and so the two are nearly impossible to break, and they require a lot of playing around. How have other people handled this?

LO Medicham shreds Amoonguss and 2HKOs Alomomola with HJK. It's not the most reliable option because of protect mindgames with the sunfish, but it is an option nonetheless.

Additonally, taunt Golbat can stop Alomomola from doing anything and poison it to wear it down, then simply brave bird Amoonguss until it's dead. You give up defogging utility if you decide to dedicate yourself to stallbreaking, but it's up to you which role is more useful for your team.

 

[EonX]

I just wanted to say that virizion, being a grass-type, is already immune to "powder" and "spore" moves. n_n

That's great, but how are you actually stopping the QuiverPass itself? Grass-types may be immune to "powder" and "spore" moves, but there's no way in hell any of them were stopping the actual QuiverPass itself. Yes, Virizion in particular could use Stone Edge to limit Venomoth to a single boost, but remember, most Venomoths that QuiverPass ran Focus Sash to always take at least one hit and successfully get the pass off. Every Grass-type is immune to Venomoth's Sleep Powder, but Virizion was really the only one that actually stood a chance of limiting the boosts Venomoth could pass unless you were running shit like Rock Slide on Tangrowth or Gogoat. Otherwise, it was getting 2 or 3 boosts before it passed it off (or just flat out killing the Grass-type on the field with Bug Buzz)

 

[s_aman]

LO Medicham shreds Amoonguss and 2HKOs Alomomola with HJK. It's not the most reliable option because of protect mindgames with the sunfish, but it is an option nonetheless.

Calm mind delphox can work well if you use psychic instead of psyshock. I know it is not the best option but i could not think of anything else. n_n

 

[apt-get]

That's great, but how are you actually stopping the QuiverPass itself? Grass-types may be immune to "powder" and "spore" moves, but there's no way in hell any of them were stopping the actual QuiverPass itself. Yes, Virizion in particular could use Stone Edge to limit Venomoth to a single boost, but remember, most Venomoths that QuiverPass ran Focus Sash to always take at least one hit and successfully get the pass off. Every Grass-type is immune to Venomoth's Sleep Powder, but Virizion was really the only one that actually stood a chance of limiting the boosts Venomoth could pass unless you were running shit like Rock Slide on Tangrowth or Gogoat. Otherwise, it was getting 2 or 3 boosts before it passed it off (or just flat out killing the Grass-type on the field with Bug Buzz)

Actually, I was talking about the part I bolded, where you say Virizion can use Lum Berry to tank the spore and get another SD; it's immune to Spore, so it doesn't even need the Lum Berry to do that.